Firebrand Chuwit says GI’s in Vietnam war left "legacy of sex culture" in Thailand

[seedy]

10 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Our Western notions of taking people at their word, assuming people won't do something incredibly stupid and blatantly doomed to failure based solely on what they want in the moment, respecting the law, worrying about what people think of us, being generally honest, treating others as we wish to be treated, being governed by an inner conscience rather than an outer face saving need, doing the "right" thing, not wanting to be perceived as dishonest and double-crossing, and so on, really put us at a disadvantage in SEA.

And where - pray tell - is this mythical place in the "West" 555

Western Mars maybe - surely not planet earth.

[ChipButty]

8 minutes ago, MarcelV said:

There's much more to HY. In fact, there is hardly any nightlife left, even before Covid. All of it already moved down to Dannok (Sadao).

Ive not been to HY for a few years whats happened to all the m pubs, The Pub, Brown Sugar, is the Water bar still there?

[BangkokReady]

1 minute ago, seedy said:

And where - pray tell - is this mythical place in the "West" 555

Western Mars maybe - surely not planet earth.

Are you suggesting there is little difference between the behavior of people in SEA and in the West?

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

But Thailand had a big sex industry long before the GI's and foreigners ever set foot in the country to which he did not refer. 

It did not have soapies at that stage, to which he was referring.

[2009]

3 hours ago, Thunglom said:

is that a justification?

It doesn't justify it, but it refutes the idea that the Americans are to blame for commercial sex in Thailand, which is what the article is about.

 

Nor does it need justified. Commercial sex is commercial sex. Who cares?

 

Is it worse than selling medical care? Food? Water?

 

Everything should be free, dammit!

 

[Liverpool Lou]

9 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

Thailand opened their arms for the Viet military for their R&R......maybe he forgot that!

Before there were soapies, maybe you forgot about that!

[seedy]

8 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Are you suggesting there is little difference between the behavior of people in SEA and in the West?

There is - at rock bottom - no difference between peoples on Earth no matter where they are from.

 

[Acharn]

10 hours ago, clivebaxter said:

Expect the 'but 90% of the sex industry is for Thais' posts, as if that were some sort of justification, Chewit should write a book nobody knows more than he does.

He's just wrong about his history, which surprises me, because he used to own several "ap, op, nuads." The sex industry as an openly acknowledged institution  goes back probably to the Kingdom of Sukhothai. It certainly was well established by the time Bangkok became the capital. Thailand took advice from the World Bank back during the 1950s (even before the CIA started sending " military aid" to Field Marshal Sarit, which was immediately followed by the first "communist insurrection." I don't have a link, but it's been reported in reputable magazines that they advised the Kingdom to take advantage of the existing sex trade to attract tourists. I know there are people who try to claim that it's the GIs' fault, but they just supported an existing institution. There's a segment of the elite who are extremely puritanical and want to deny the past, just as there are many Americans who want to deny the reality of racially based slavery. I'm a little disappointed, because I quite like Chuwit because of the unorthodox way he broke into politics. Glad to see he's still around and feisty.

[BangkokReady]

2 minutes ago, seedy said:

There is - at rock bottom - no difference between peoples on Earth no matter where they are from.

If that's your stance, go for it.  Personally, I see a difference in behavior, values, beliefs, culture, social rules, and so on, but perhaps I'm overthinking it.

[Liverpool Lou]

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Pesky foreigners eh. 
 

The hypocrisy of this creature is nauseating. 

Was it hypocrisy, wasn't he referring to himself?...

"Chuwit said that many of these were owned by a wealthy man of Chinese descent called Sa-art (the Thai word for clean).  He became known as Mr Clean and became dizzyingly rich". 

 

It's not as though he has ever tried to hide his involvement.

[Acharn]

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It did not have soapies at that stage, to which he was referring.

And you know that how? They certainly had brothels. Have you ever heard the word "mangda?" There used to be folklore about kidnapping women on the street and forcing them to work in brothels. The mangdas were the men who controlled them. I don't know if the stories had a factual basis, but believe they did.

[Liverpool Lou]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

A Thai pimp blaming "Farang" for the sex culture in Thailand. How surprising.

 

Obviously there was no prostitution in Thailand before the Vietnam war, and these white devils lured and tricked these innocent Thai damsels into giving up their body for money 

When the Americans got here there wasn't the now common, specific part of that industry that he's referring to, the "soapies".    In no way did he suggest that foreigners brought prostitution to Thailand.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[Bluespunk]

13 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Was it hypocrisy, wasn't he referring to himself?...

"Chuwit said that many of these were owned by a wealthy man of Chinese descent called Sa-art (the Thai word for clean).  He became known as Mr Clean and became dizzyingly rich". 

 

It's not as though he has ever tried to hide his involvement.

I’d say blaming “foreigners” for a legacy or culture of sex trade is pure hypocrisy. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Bluespunk

[Liverpool Lou]

8 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

If he and his ilk object to this, why has nothing been done in 46 years?

Where did he say that he objected to it?

[charliebadenhop]

Just wondering...

Having been around a bit, what I see are streets of bars with maybe 75% or more of the customers being "farong". I have yet to see a cluster of bars that mainly have Thai clients.

 

So where to Thai gentlemen go and is the Thai slice of the market much bigger than the "Farong" market as some here suggest?

 

[Liverpool Lou]

20 minutes ago, Acharn said:

29 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It did not have soapies at that stage, to which he was referring.

And you know that how?

Because it's a fact.  Try reading the OP, that's what it's all about!

Edited October 22, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[MarcelV]

29 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Ive not been to HY for a few years whats happened to all the m pubs, The Pub, Brown Sugar, is the Water bar still there?

I have no idea. Whenever I go there, I go with my gf and we stay over on the far east side of the city, near the university area. I'm not a nightlife type, though I have been to The Swan Bar a few times. I believe that one's still there, but don't hold me accountable.

[KarenBravo]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Where did he say that he objected to it?

Pretty obvious what his thinking is.

Why bring it up if he's fine with it.

Foreigners are blamed for things, no pat on the back for them.

[KarenBravo]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Because it's a fact.

And we are supposed to believe some one that just says "Because it's a fact".

Yeah? Where's your evidence?

[Mingomania]

Did a three weeks stay in Bangkok, Udon with the U.S. Airbase and Pattaya back in 1972. That was my first trip in the land of smiles among other things.

Then back in 1981 and what a difference, especially in Pattaya. The cities had exploded in neon, cheap and expensive hotels, bars, restaurants, massage parlors and more girls that I could count using a Univac computer.

Then back and forth since 2015 until now and sometimes I wish that I could turn back time...

[Liverpool Lou]

8 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

10 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Because it's a fact.

And we are supposed to believe some one that just says "Because it's a fact".

Yeah? Where's your evidence?

Try reading the OP!   It's about how the industry, particularly the soapies, developed after the Americans started coming here.   It's also common knowledge.     If you're claiming that it is inaccurate maybe you could indicate where all those soapies were located before "Vietnam"?

 

If Chuwit and I are wrong, perhaps one of the many US forces' personnel who were here at that time (and there are many that claim that who post here) could say where all those soapies, the existence of which you deny, where in the 60s?

Edited October 22, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[billd766]

9 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

If he and his ilk object to this, why has nothing been done in 46 years?

Abba even wrote a song about it.

 

 

[StayinThailand2much]

42 minutes ago, 2009 said:

What did US armed forces do to Thai women?

Paid for their families' 'sick buffaloes'?

[KarenBravo]

12 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Try reading the OP!   It's about how the industry, particularly the soapies, developed after the Americans started coming here.   It's also common knowledge.     If you're claiming that it is inaccurate maybe you could indicate where all those soapies were located before "Vietnam"?

 

If Chuwit and I are wrong, perhaps one of the many US forces' personnel who were here at that time (and there are many that claim that who post here) could say where all those soapies, the existence of which you deny, where in the 60s?

You made the claim he's correct and that it is "common knowledge". It isn't. The person making a claim has the burden of showing proof. 

[lopburi3]

34 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

If Chuwit and I are wrong, perhaps one of the many US forces' personnel who were here at that time (and there are many that claim that who post here) could say where all those soapies, the existence of which you deny, where in the 60s?

Believe that when they first appeared they were restricted to serve Japanese only (which is where the idea came from and where they have operated for far longer) - US forces and other foreigners were not allowed entry to such Japanese only establishments.

Edited October 22, 2021 by lopburi3

[BobinBKK]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sex needs no justification, and it's hugely enjoyable, as proven by so much money to be made by providing it to men that can't get it from women in their own country, including many married men.

If you want to point the finger, point it at married women that won't.

This is exactly why I have always stayed single. I live by the philosophy of "either put out or get out".

[Nickelbeer]

All that is wrong with Thailand is ALWAYS someone else's fault. Thais hold the crown for denying culpability. Even Donald Trump could not be more obtuse.

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

Very true.

 

Our Western notions of taking people at their word, assuming people won't do something incredibly stupid and blatantly doomed to failure based solely on what they want in the moment, respecting the law, worrying about what people think of us, being generally honest, treating others as we wish to be treated, being governed by an inner conscience rather than an outer face saving need, doing the "right" thing, not wanting to be perceived as dishonest and double-crossing, and so on, really put us at a disadvantage in SEA.

 

It's so comical, and not a little pathetic, when you get the ignorant "noble savage" do-gooders who come to somewhere like Thailand and express pity over what they perceive as the "evil White man" taking advantage of the poor down trodden locals.

As the Occidental civilisations are truly low man on the totem pole - still struggling to catch up to any such learning curve, all the while in their attempts to convince the world otherwise. Most of the much older cultures have always understood that you're not really there and continue to see things by a fanciful character.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sure, sure. I've no doubt every young woman from a poor family in school dreams of working in a sweat shop for a pittance, and would never ever take the easy way to riches by engaging in sex with farangs.

Not all factories are just sweatshops, particularly those run by multinationals. A member of the extended fam works in a factory for a Japanese company. He does quite well, with a nice apt, big bike, and a car.

 

Is Thailand doing more to attract those businesses? Quite on the contrary. I remember an article from about a year ago, about Panasonic shutting down a battery factory here and moving it to Vietnam. They cited the difficulties in doing business in Thailand, all the ridiculous bureaucracy. I recall similar articles about a rubber factory and car suspension factory, where the workers showed up one day to find the doors shut, and all their jobs gone.

 

I also said businesses other than factories. Across the countryside I've seen countless abandoned buildings where something once was, a retail store, a restaurant, entertainment venue, tourist attraction. There could be housed anything that could be imagined to generate money, besides another beer bar or soapy massage. As been said in the thread, there is money in Thailand, it's just not getting to everyone.

 

The Thais can be bright and imaginative people, I know because I've taught many of them. Many of them have had big dreams. They could be turning those abandoned places into successful businesses. Yet this country and its inept govt, and cultural aspects that have a habit of reinforcing inequalities, and veer toward exploitative vices, keep that from happening.

[RobU]

Yes prostitution will have existed in Thailand long before GI's and the Vietnam war. I think what he is saying is that The GI's influence created the modern 'sex tourism' social infrastructure that 'was' prevalent in Bangkok, Pattaya and other urban centres until Covid. i.e. Thailand for a few weeks holiday/R&R get laid every night with a pretend girlfriend then back to the real world with no strings attached. Thai people accepting this as the 'norm' and the sex worker is not stigmatised for earning good money for the family by going from client to client and having farang 'friends' who send her money from abroad.