Personal Accident Insurance

[scubascuba3]

Mine is up for renewal Axa, anyone have experience of FWD via SCB? medical cover per accident 300k is better than Axa 250k, not sure about premiums, Axa 6,900 baht.

 

https://www.scb.co.th/th/personal-banking/insurance/accident-insurance/pa-happy-plus.html

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Insurance policies sold via banks tend to be stripped-down products. If it is relevant to you, check to see whether the FWD policy covers motorcycling and assault risks, something that is frequently offered as optional cover for additional premium under personal accident policies, but which may be left off of a bare bones policy sold via bancassurance channels.

[scubascuba3]

10 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Insurance policies sold via banks tend to be stripped-down products. If it is relevant to you, check to see whether the FWD policy covers motorcycling and assault risks, something that is frequently offered as optional cover for additional premium under personal accident policies, but which may be left off of a bare bones policy sold via bancassurance channels.

The SCB one includes motorcycles in the table above, Axa is more difficult to find and ambiguous which i why i had to get them to confirm in an email

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Check CHUBB PA Insurance. 300k baht per accident. my thai lady aged 40 & kid age 7,year premium 7500 baht each. I’m 65 annual premium 15k.

I use Eric Dohlon, swedish- thai insurance broker who switched me from AXA to Chubb two years ago for better terms. One minor mbike spill handled direct between Private Hospital & Chubb. No Premium Increase on Renewal.

[OBOR]

I'm in the process of organising accident insurance, mainly for motorcycle. At SCB I was looking at PA Happy Plus  and asked about motorcycle  coverage. Was told yes that's included, later I asked again to double check and was told yes but they only pay out 10%.  Maybe the guy got it wrong?

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, OBOR said:

I'm in the process of organising accident insurance, mainly for motorcycle. At SCB I was looking at PA Happy Plus  and asked about motorcycle  coverage. Was told yes that's included, later I asked again to double check and was told yes but they only pay out 10%.  Maybe the guy got it wrong?

I found the staff at SCB to be poor, you need a work permit apparently, do you have one? looking at the premium doc medical cover was 300k per accident motorbike, but you should ask to see it in writing.

 

I have a similar issue with Axa, their documentation says motorbikes are excluded but they tell me its included, AA say the same but can't provide any docs to prove it and their customer service is poor when questions get difficult

Edited November 20, 2021 by scubascuba3

[Sheryl]

I too had problems with the staff at SCB, they kept asking for additional documents that were either unnecessary or already provided and ultimately I got message from FWID denying the policy and refunding the payment. I gave up at that point and did not bother getting their letter translated.

 

My attempt was with an upcountry SCB branch, might go better in Bangkok, I don't know.

 

OP I suggest you contact a good broker for advise on best policy. (Brokers cannot issue the SCB policy unfortunately hence my attempt to get one direct from SCB...to no avail).

 

Besides helping  you get a suitable policy a good broker  will help with the claims policy.

 

I used to have Bangkok Insurance policy, had 2 claims paid but both needed the help of the broker. I let it drop when expecting to get SCB policy and haven's gotten around to getting a different PA policy (I do however already have comprehensive health insurance so not that much  exposed..  but as Accident policies will cover outpatient as well as inpatient and premiums are low, they are nice to have. and for those unable for some reason to get general health insurance, or relying on being able to fly home for medical care,  I would say very important to at least get PA cover).

 

The big problem with Thai PA policies in general is that they emphasize death & dismemberment benefits rather than medical costs, medical cover limit is often quite low, and they have age limits. In other words not well designed to the needs and desires of the expat market. Also often need broker assitance to get claims paid, so chose broker carefully.

[OBOR]

No work permit. I'm retired. When filling in the form on the computer the guy couldn't get past occupation. A few calls sorted that out.  Now wants to see our original marriage cert.  I've signed up but not paid yet. Think I'll go in Monday and cancel.
The guy tried really hard to get everything right and I've no complaints about him. I wanted scb so I could renew past 75. I'm 67.

[scubascuba3]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I too had problems with the staff at SCB, they kept asking for additional documents that were either unnecessary or already provided and ultimately I got message from FWID denying the policy and refunding the payment. I gave up at that point and did not bother getting their letter translated.

 

My attempt was with an upcountry SCB branch, might go better in Bangkok, I don't know.

 

OP I suggest you contact a good broker for advise on best policy. (Brokers cannot issue the SCB policy unfortunately hence my attempt to get one direct from SCB...to no avail).

 

Besides helping  you get a suitable policy a good broker  will help with the claims policy.

 

I used to have Bangkok Insurance policy, had 2 claims paid but both needed the help of the broker. I let it drop when expecting to get SCB policy and haven's gotten around to getting a different PA policy (I do however already have comprehensive health insurance so not that much  exposed..  but as Accident policies will cover outpatient as well as inpatient and premiums are low, they are nice to have. and for those unable for some reason to get general health insurance, or relying on being able to fly home for medical care,  I would say very important to at least get PA cover).

 

The big problem with Thai PA policies in general is that they emphasize death & dismemberment benefits rather than medical costs, medical cover limit is often quite low, and they have age limits. In other words not well designed to the needs and desires of the expat market. Also often need broker assitance to get claims paid, so chose broker carefully.

I'm less positive about using a broker, AA won't get a document that says motorbike is covered for Axa PA insurance, policy doc says it's excluded and an endorsement is needed but won't provide it, expects me to just take their word for it, so I'll probably go direct to Axa next time. Any claim issues I'll get my lawyer gf involved, seems to have good experience with that

[scubascuba3]

6 minutes ago, OBOR said:

No work permit. I'm retired. When filling in the form on the computer the guy couldn't get past occupation. A few calls sorted that out.  Now wants to see our original marriage cert.  I've signed up but not paid yet. Think I'll go in Monday and cancel.
The guy tried really hard to get everything right and I've no complaints about him. I wanted scb so I could renew past 75. I'm 67.

Interesting, i went to two branches and both needed to call head office and said a work permit is required, I don't believe them, it reminded me of when i tried to get a bank account set up a few years ago and the bank staff just got nervous and where trying to find any reason to deny, default excuse is work permit.

 

I wouldn't bother with SCB, based on my experience and Sheryl's experience it will be nothing but trouble if you make a claim. Try Axa instead, at least their staff are good

[Sheryl]

57 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'm less positive about using a broker, AA won't get a document that says motorbike is covered for Axa PA insurance, policy doc says it's excluded and an endorsement is needed but won't provide it, expects me to just take their word for it, so I'll probably go direct to Axa next time. Any claim issues I'll get my lawyer gf involved, seems to have good experience with that

 

If broker can't get the document it is probably because the insurer will not provide it in advance.  The endorsement should appear in the actual policy document i.e. may not be a separate document at all. In fact usually is not. It can be difficult to get policy document beforehand and even if you do will be a boilerplate and not show any endorsements.

 

If they have assured you that this additional cover has been requested and will be included, and you have a quote for the insurance that reflects this added cost, I would trust them on that and proceed. There is usually a provision for full refund of policy within 30 days (check that this is so) so if when you get the final policy it does not include it, you can cancel.

 

Brokers have direct channels to insurance companies. Your Gf, lawyer or not, does not. They can get informal back channel info for you whereas insurers are going to be very circumspect in saying anything to a lawyer. She will be able to help you lodge appeals if necessary but one really does not want it to have to go that far.

 

To quote another TV member with experience in the insurance industry: "anyone who buys their own insurance directly has a fool for a broker".

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Interesting, i went to two branches and both needed to call head office and said a work permit is required, I don't believe them, it reminded me of when i tried to get a bank account set up a few years ago and the bank staff just got nervous and where trying to find any reason to deny, default excuse is work permit.

 

I wouldn't bother with SCB, based on my experience and Sheryl's experience it will be nothing but trouble if you make a claim. Try Axa instead, at least their staff are good

 

I don't know that oen would have trouble with a claim but -- despite an English language website -  their staff  clearly are not well trained to issue policies to foreigners.

 

Obviously a work permit is not required, just proof of legal presence long term (i.e. one year extension for work, retirement or marriage, or Elite Visa).  Some Thais are unaware that there are conditions other than employment that legally entitle people to live here.

 

With me, different problem -- they went nuts because I am a US citizen. Insisted I fill out  the papers required when a US citizen opens a bank account even though I was not opening account.  OK, no problem, I filled it out. Then they were in a tizzy because I filled in one section and left the other blank. It is an "either/or" form, you complete one section giving your SS number if you are a US citizen and the other if you are not, giving instead a Taxpayer Identification number. You do not fill out both. But useless to explain this to them.  They were also in a tizzy because I filled out the form with my Thai address (same address as I use for tax filing), convinced - wrongly - that the whole purpose of this (to them, terrifying) form is to record an address for me in the USA.  The form in question is very simple and its purpose is simply to provide your SSN or TIN, and the address given should be your tax filing address which can be anywhere in the world. . Useless to explain this, too, and my assurances that I have filled this form out many times and know what it is for and what it requires fell on deaf ears.

 

These were the initial issues. But I do not know if these were related to the final refusal as that seemed to cone from the insurer not SCB.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

27 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

I don't know that oen would have trouble with a claim but -- despite an English language website -  their staff  clearly are not well trained to issue policies to foreigners.

 

Obviously a work permit is not required, just proof of legal presence long term (i.e. one year extension for work, retirement or marriage, or Elite Visa).  Some Thais are unaware that there are conditions other than employment that legally entitle people to live here.

 

With me, different problem -- they went nuts because I am a US citizen. Insisted I fill out  the papers required when a US citizen opens a bank account even though I was not opening account.  OK, no problem, I filled it out. Then they were in a tizzy because I filled in one section and left the other blank. It is an "either/or" form, you complete one section giving your SS number if you are a US citizen and the other if you are not, giving instead a Taxpayer Identification number. You do not fill out both. But useless to explain this to them.  They were also in a tizzy because I filled out the form with my Thai address (same address as I use for tax filing), convinced - wrongly - that the whole purpose of this (to them, terrifying) form is to record an address for me in the USA.  The form in question is very simple and its purpose is simply to provide your SSN or TIN, and the address given should be your tax filing address which can be anywhere in the world. . Useless to explain this, too, and my assurances that I have filled this form out many times and know what it is for and what it requires fell on deaf ears.

 

These were the initial issues. But I do not know if these were related to the final refusal as that seemed to cone from the insurer not SCB.

 

 

but if both branches i tried in Pattaya said a WP is required even after referring to telephone customer service they aren't worth bothering with, imagine how difficult claiming might be, not worth giving them business

[brewsterbudgen]

If I have health insurance (around 13m baht cover), is it necessary to take out separate accident insurance? 

[scubascuba3]

39 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

If broker can't get the document it is probably because the insurer will not provide it in advance.  The endorsement should appear in the actual policy document i.e. may not be a separate document at all. In fact usually is not. It can be difficult to get policy document beforehand and even if you do will be a boilerplate and not show any endorsements.

 

If they have assured you that this additional cover has been requested and will be included, and you have a quote for the insurance that reflects this added cost, I would trust them on that and proceed. There is usually a provision for full refund of policy within 30 days (check that this is so) so if when you get the final policy it does not include it, you can cancel.

 

Brokers have direct channels to insurance companies. Your Gf, lawyer or not, does not. They can get informal back channel info for you whereas insurers are going to be very circumspect in saying anything to a lawyer. She will be able to help you lodge appeals if necessary but one really does not want it to have to go that far.

 

To quote another TV member with experience in the insurance industry: "anyone who buys their own insurance directly has a fool for a broker".

 

 

I've used them the last two years but still useless if they can't get a document to say motorcycles are covered. In the UK it would be crazy to just take their word for it and no back up, insurer could easily deny it, I'll try Axa direct this time

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If I have health insurance (around 13m baht cover), is it necessary to take out separate accident insurance? 

You'd need to pay deductible if you made a claim then your premiums start going up etc

[internationalism]

I got health insurance from pacific cross with 200k accident included. 
it can be upgraded to 1mln at 150b for each additional 100k. So my additional is 1200b. 
i dont remember them specifying max for each accident, so probably there is not such limit  
most probably other insurers also offer accident upgrade. Of you have health insurance you can try to add or upgrade accident. 
seems getting health plus accident is better value than buying them separate. I would not think that premiums after claiming accident will be higher for next years 

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, internationalism said:

 

I got health insurance from pacific cross with 200k accident included. 
it can be upgraded to 1mln at 150b for each additional 100k. So my additional is 1200b. 
i dont remember them specifying max for each accident, so probably there is not such limit  
most probably other insurers also offer accident upgrade. Of you have health insurance you can try to add or upgrade accident. 
seems getting health plus accident is better value than buying them separate. I would not think that premiums after claiming accident will be higher for next years 

You should check how much medical cover per accident, I've seen many policies saying 1m PA cover which turns out to be payment in death etc, per accident can be as low as 20k

[brewsterbudgen]

16 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

You'd need to pay deductible if you made a claim then your premiums start going up etc

My policy has no deductible?   If I'm hospitalised after an accident, I assumed I was covered for the medical expenses.  What extra cover does separate Accident Insurance provide?

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

My policy has no deductible?   If I'm hospitalised after an accident, I assumed I was covered for the medical expenses.  What extra cover does separate Accident Insurance provide?

No deductible? unusual i thought everyone had one to reduce premiums, well in that case i imagine your health insurance should cover accidents no problem

[internationalism]

18 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

You should check how much medical cover per accident, I've seen many policies saying 1m PA cover which turns out to be payment in death etc, per accident can be as low as 20k

yes, i will have to take now an additional accident policy.

[internationalism]

now I have a clarification from my agent of my PA taken together with my health:

"You will be covered the maximum amount of the insurance per accident as long as you are not doing anything illegal (driving drunk, racing, driving without a license) 

The coverage for accidents is the same as the coverage for any illness and covid. They will just follow your coverage for premier plus. So maximum coverage is 3 million per year following the terms of your plan."

That is more that I have expected from my 1mln PA add on for 1200b.

 

My agent advised against getting an additional PA, I was thinking about axa for 6300b and 200k cover 

"Your plan with Pacific Cross covers you for accidents also including medical expenses. This plan with AXA will only cover 200,000 of the medical expenses from Accidents. "

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, internationalism said:

now I have a clarification from my agent of my PA taken together with my health:

"You will be covered the maximum amount of the insurance per accident as long as you are not doing anything illegal (driving drunk, racing, driving without a license) 

The coverage for accidents is the same as the coverage for any illness and covid. They will just follow your coverage for premier plus. So maximum coverage is 3 million per year following the terms of your plan."

That is more that I have expected from my 1mln PA add on for 1200b.

 

My agent advised against getting an additional PA, I was thinking about axa for 6300b and 200k cover 

"Your plan with Pacific Cross covers you for accidents also including medical expenses. This plan with AXA will only cover 200,000 of the medical expenses from Accidents. "

What is the Axa PA you mention? I've not seen a 6300 baht 200k cover one

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, internationalism said:

now I have a clarification from my agent of my PA taken together with my health:

"You will be covered the maximum amount of the insurance per accident as long as you are not doing anything illegal (driving drunk, racing, driving without a license) 

The coverage for accidents is the same as the coverage for any illness and covid. They will just follow your coverage for premier plus. So maximum coverage is 3 million per year following the terms of your plan."

That is more that I have expected from my 1mln PA add on for 1200b.

 

My agent advised against getting an additional PA, I was thinking about axa for 6300b and 200k cover 

"Your plan with Pacific Cross covers you for accidents also including medical expenses. This plan with AXA will only cover 200,000 of the medical expenses from Accidents. "

i found it and clearly states motorcycles

[Sheryl]

On 11/20/2021 at 4:45 PM, scubascuba3 said:

I've used them the last two years but still useless if they can't get a document to say motorcycles are covered. In the UK it would be crazy to just take their word for it and no back up, insurer could easily deny it, I'll try Axa direct this time

 

As explained the document would be your policy which would contain a special rider to the effect that motorcycles included. It is not a separate document.

 

You need not take word for anything. If the policy when issued does not contain the promised rider then immediately cancel it with full refund.

[Sheryl]

On 11/20/2021 at 4:46 PM, scubascuba3 said:

You'd need to pay deductible if you made a claim then your premiums start going up etc

1. Only if you took a deductible option.

 

2. Premiums will not go up based on claims if it is an international policy. Local insurers can raise based on claims but almost never do so for claims due to accidents. Mainly they do this for claims related to conditions which increase your risk profile.

 

@brewsterbudgen  it is not essential to have a PA policy if you have general health insurance but it can be useful. In particular, PA policies will cover outpatient care whereas most of us have hospitalization only general policies.

 

I was able to use my PA policy to cover deductible on my general policy after a major hospitalization due to an accident (needed the broker to run interference to get the local PA company to understand the situation though). I also used it to cover outpatient costs after an infected cat bite, these would not have come under my general health policy unless I was admitted. I was able to avoid hospitalization in favor of outpatient IV antibiotics knowing I could still get it fully covered through the PA policy.

 

 

 

 

[internationalism]

21 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

i found it and clearly states motorcycles

 

Sabuy Jai My Exclusive A1

they have many policies. That one has the highest accident expenses.

here are different plans from many insurers

https://misterprakan.com/en/accident/results?gender=Male&age=56&leadid=348157

[scubascuba3]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:47 PM, Sheryl said:

 

As explained the document would be your policy which would contain a special rider to the effect that motorcycles included. It is not a separate document.

 

You need not take word for anything. If the policy when issued does not contain the promised rider then immediately cancel it with full refund.

I went to see Axa, basically the policy document says motorcycles are excluded but apparently as mine is plan C it's included although policy wording or schedule doesn't specify that. Card says MC which they says means motorcycles. I'm sure they are right because I've asked them the same thing the last 2 years because of the ambiguous wishy washy wording. At least Axa were helpful

Edited November 23, 2021 by scubascuba3

[Sheryl]

On 11/21/2021 at 9:47 AM, brewsterbudgen said:

My policy has no deductible?   If I'm hospitalised after an accident, I assumed I was covered for the medical expenses.  What extra cover does separate Accident Insurance provide?

The only extra cover likely provided would be outpatient care, assuming your policy is hospitalization only