Pension from Australia qualifying criteria

[Kenny202]

I always thought for those of us Aussie expats living here in Thailand, we had to go back to Australia for 2 years to qualify for any sort of old age pension. I am currently 58yo and no where near age yet but talking to a mate of mine today and he said he is on a half pension from Australia. Roughly $600 a fortnight. I said why are you on a half pension? He told me it was because he came here to live? He never really checked it out too much as money wasn't an issue for him at the time (it is now lol).

So turns out I assume he is on a half pension because he only applied for the old age pension and received it 3 months prior to moving here. So he hadn't been on it for 2 years or anything like that. I thought that was the rule....you had to be on the pension for 2 years before it became moveable to another country at the full rate? Or is it you have had to live in Australia for 2 years before receiving the pension or a mixture of both? I don't understand why he would be on half? I mean $600 a fortnight not a lot, but if you are set up here with your own home etc it is quite possible to live here on that, maybe with a monthly supplement from your own funds.

 

If I was pension age, and I moved back to Australia permanently or otherwise, would I be eligible to receive the full pension in Australia immediately?

If I was eligible to receive it immediately could I also, after a few months move back to Thailand and receive a half pension? 

 

I should qualify I have been out of the country (Australia) and living here for 7 years, haven't even returned for a holiday

 

 

[Will27]

Maybe your friend had a lot of assets/money so his pension was reduced.

I'm pretty sure there is no "half pension" allocated.

 

TBH, this has been covered numerous times in the Australia OAP subforum.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/163135-australian-aged-pension/

 

You don't have to wait 2 years to qualify for the OAP if you return from overseas.

You have to prove residency in order to get it. In other words, that you're back in Oz to stay.

 

You don't have to be on the pension for 2 years before you move overseas.

Once you receive it, you can go.

 

Assuming you qualify and prove your residency, you will be eligible.

Pretty sure you will then have to do your 2 years before getting portabilty.

 

 

[Peterw42]

OP, last time I checked, I think you will find its a 2 year stretch, before, during or after getting the pension, to make it portable.

The 2 years in the naughty corner doesn't start the day you get the pension, it can be a year prior and a year after etc.

I have a friend who just did exactly that, returned to oz at age 65, waited, got the pension when he qualified at 67, then straight back to Thailand with full portable pension (less elec supplements etc).

[Kenny202]

7 hours ago, Will27 said:

Maybe your friend had a lot of assets/money so his pension was reduced.

I'm pretty sure there is no "half pension" allocated.

 

TBH, this has been covered numerous times in the Australia OAP subforum.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/163135-australian-aged-pension/

 

You don't have to wait 2 years to qualify for the OAP if you return from overseas.

You have to prove residency in order to get it. In other words, that you're back in Oz to stay.

 

You don't have to be on the pension for 2 years before you move overseas.

Once you receive it, you can go.

 

Assuming you qualify and prove your residency, you will be eligible.

Pretty sure you will then have to do your 2 years before getting portabilty.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. You seem to say that I can get the pension straight away if I prove residency...understood. Then you say you don't need to be on the pension for 2 years before I come back and live in Thailand? Then say I need 2 years before getting portability? Ummm not really sure what you mean? I am missing something for sure.

 

This guy is definitely on a half pension. $600 per fortnight. I know he doesn't have any tangible assets / real estate in Australia and at best maybe had around $200k when he applied for the pension. But now very little left. Basically what he did was leave work and go on the pension. After about only 3 months on the pension he decided her wanted to come and live in Thailand. Hence the half pension (Or so he seems to think). He's single by the way. 

 

Would it be because he already had residency in Australia 2 years prior? Is that the key? if you are a resident for 2 years prior to going on the pension it's portable....but if I was already here and not a resident last 2 years why I need to serve my time (Home detention they call it? lol). So is what you are saying you don't need to be on the pension for 2 years to make it portable, you need to be a resident for 2 years before applying? So at 63 years old I come back to Australia to live. I live there 2 years and go on the pension day I turn 65. Next day I can leave for Thailand and my pension will be portable?

[simple1]

Could be your friend didn't meet the criteria for the full period of a working life in Oz and receives a pro rata rate of the full pension.

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/2/2/40

[Kenny202]

44 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Could be your friend didn't meet the criteria for the full period of a working life in Oz and receives a pro rata rate of the full pension.

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/2/2/40

No, he worked all his life in Oz. One of those never missed a day guys. Will have to go back and prod him for more info. Very interested myself however it could be doubtful we'll even still have the pension by the time I am eligible. It's normally $1200 a fortnight right for a single person? I didn't realize it was that high? Thats nearly 60k a month I could live easily on that

[Will27]

16 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

No, he worked all his life in Oz. One of those never missed a day guys. Will have to go back and prod him for more info. Very interested myself however it could be doubtful we'll even still have the pension by the time I am eligible. It's normally $1200 a fortnight right for a single person? I didn't realize it was that high? Thats nearly 60k a month I could live easily on that

My friend near me gets it.

He said it's about 38 000 Baht per month.

 

Maybe that's where you're confused.

The pension is around $1300 per month I think.

[Will27]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

Thanks for the reply. You seem to say that I can get the pension straight away if I prove residency...understood. Then you say you don't need to be on the pension for 2 years before I come back and live in Thailand? Then say I need 2 years before getting portability? Ummm not really sure what you mean? I am missing something for sure.

 

This guy is definitely on a half pension. $600 per fortnight. I know he doesn't have any tangible assets / real estate in Australia and at best maybe had around $200k when he applied for the pension. But now very little left. Basically what he did was leave work and go on the pension. After about only 3 months on the pension he decided her wanted to come and live in Thailand. Hence the half pension (Or so he seems to think). He's single by the way. 

 

Would it be because he already had residency in Australia 2 years prior? Is that the key? if you are a resident for 2 years prior to going on the pension it's portable....but if I was already here and not a resident last 2 years why I need to serve my time (Home detention they call it? lol). So is what you are saying you don't need to be on the pension for 2 years to make it portable, you need to be a resident for 2 years before applying? So at 63 years old I come back to Australia to live. I live there 2 years and go on the pension day I turn 65. Next day I can leave for Thailand and my pension will be portable?

You're getting confused with the "2 year" period.

 

My friend in Oz is eligible for the OAP next year.

He can go and live overseas whenever he wants.

 

The 2 year period is if you're returning from living overseas.

 

[HAPPYNUFF]

If you return to Oz,  and you are of age to receive the OAP,   your  first payment will be backdated from the date you lodged your application,  as it may take some  time   to process same.          Unfortunately , if you  decide to then leave Oz, for a period longer than 6 weeks,  your  total pension will cease  (you would have to re apply   if you should return.) 

It is a fact, as several mates of mine have found out, once granted    it is NOT portable,  that is   able to be paid to You overseas, until you have completed 2 years residency in OZ.    That  doesnt have to be in one stretch, you could go on six weeks holidays   in that time,  but the six weeks will be added on, until you do amass  the full 2 years.

As  for your mate  getting  $600 per fortnight,, the full SINGLE rate per  fortnight is now   in excess of $900,  that includes   extra payments given for telephone etc,   which amount to about   $60  per fortnight.  All   Ozzies who   reside overseas,  that is those  who Centrelink have identified, or who have confessed,   lose those extra benefits, so a FULL  SINGLE  rate pension would be in the high $800  per fortnight.         Your mate obviously has never notified Centrelink of  his decreasing $200,000 over the years, and they are still assessing him  as  having this.   If  he brings  up his file on the internet, with Centrelink,  he can adjust  his asset worth there, his pension  should then adjust accordingly.   I adjust mine    every 6 months or so.  In addition,  should his superannuation  fund balance have grown in   value,,,half his luck,,... this  will have also  affected his pension,  as Centrelink can access  any persons pension fund, b ut not their bank balance, legally.

I have heard some wonderful  stories from OZZies here, alleging how they retired at 40 cashed in their  huge super and left...That is not possible, until  you are 60 years of age, where are PORTION,, theunsecured section, can be withdrawn, once you pay the FULL  taxation rate, which starts at 30 cents in the $, increasing rapidly to 45 cents in the dollar.    As an addendum, I know of  some  who live here permanently, but havent disclosed that, and have not yet been found out,,,I shudder to think  what the tax man is going to do to  their assets in Oz  when they   die.as  many still  own houses there and  hold bank accounts, to receive their pension.

[Kenny202]

2 minutes ago, HAPPYNUFF said:

If you return to Oz,  and you are of age to receive the OAP,   your  first payment will be backdated from the date you lodged your application,  as it may take some  time   to process same.          Unfortunately , if you  decide to then leave Oz, for a period longer than 6 weeks,  your  total pension will cease  (you would have to re apply   if you should return.) 

It is a fact, as several mates of mine have found out, once granted    it is NOT portable,  that is   able to be paid to You overseas, until you have completed 2 years residency in OZ.    That  doesnt have to be in one stretch, you could go on six weeks holidays   in that time,  but the six weeks will be added on, until you do amass  the full 2 years.

As  for your mate  getting  $600 per fortnight,, the full SINGLE rate per  fortnight is now   in excess of $900,  that includes   extra payments given for telephone etc,   which amount to about   $60  per fortnight.  All   Ozzies who   reside overseas,  that is those  who Centrelink have identified, or who have confessed,   lose those extra benefits, so a FULL  SINGLE  rate pension would be in the high $800  per fortnight.         Your mate obviously has never notified Centrelink of  his decreasing $200,000 over the years, and they are still assessing him  as  having this.   If  he brings  up his file on the internet, with Centrelink,  he can adjust  his asset worth there, his pension  should then adjust accordingly.   I adjust mine    every 6 months or so.  In addition,  should his superannuation  fund balance have grown in   value,,,half his luck,,... this  will have also  affected his pension,  as Centrelink can access  any persons pension fund, b ut not their bank balance, legally.

I have heard some wonderful  stories from OZZies here, alleging how they retired at 40 cashed in their  huge super and left...That is not possible, until  you are 60 years of age, where are PORTION,, theunsecured section, can be withdrawn, once you pay the FULL  taxation rate, which starts at 30 cents in the $, increasing rapidly to 45 cents in the dollar.    As an addendum, I know of  some  who live here permanently, but havent disclosed that, and have not yet been found out,,,I shudder to think  what the tax man is going to do to  their assets in Oz  when they   die.as  many still  own houses there and  hold bank accounts, to receive their pension.

I think I got it now ???? So say I am eligible at 67yo, I could return to Australia at 65yo, wait 2 years until I was eligible for the pension....start receiving payments then immediately leave to live in Thailand again? 

 

I am eligible to take out some of my Super as of this year (Birth year 1963), up to 200k I believe. haven't touched it yet. I was worried at one stage I would have to pay full whack tax on it as I have been out of the country for 7 years now and have no property there so am a non resident for tax purposes. But I have been assured now several times as long as you are of age and eligible, there is no tax payable and non resident etc doesn't come into play. My super was just very basic PAYG employer funded contributions, no extra salary sacrifice etc. Does that sound about right?

[Kenny202]

My friend was telling me before he is actually married to his Thai wife here. Married in Thailand and she has never been to Australia. He must have told them he was married and is on a reduced married pension or something? Even though his wife has no income or pension. So he's not on a half pension he's on about 66%

[HAPPYNUFF]

I   forgot     the   most    straight forward news, Im sure my mate, who lives not far from me here wont mind. 

He worked until he was  67 years of age, Born and lived all his life in OZ.  Didnt know about the  (then scheme)  that  he could have   claimed a benefit payment for those who   continued working past the then  65 years retirement age, so missed out on   about  $3000.    However,  retired, at 67   as I said,,   the retirement age then being 65.    Made application  for the Age pension, got  supplied with a Customer Reference Number (CRN as  its called).     Travelled   from the  country town he  had worked in, with his missus and two kids.   Spent a few weeks in Perth,  made the big mistake of not checking with Centrelink as to the progress of his application, or advising them of his intentions of  relocating to here (his wife is Thai, with Oz permanent residency)    Packed up  and all flew here.      Waited, and waited, and waited.  After some months    phoned Centrelink, (the Age Pension office is In Hobart for   info,  ring them  if problems)      Was told no record of his application, he quoted his CRN,, never heard of it.    I assisted him over the next several month lodged notices, letters, appeals etc,  thought we were winning till the bombshell  struck when Centrelink pointed out the regulation that ALL persons, on first receiving the OAP, MUST   reside permanently in Oz before any portability of the pension is allowed.  (Holidays of up to 6 weeks duration are allowed) So  his application, which was never  located anyway, would have been rejected.          I know many on this forum dispute this, thats their right, but    ask around, and not just the guy on the next bar stool.

[Kenny202]

1 minute ago, HAPPYNUFF said:

I   forgot     the   most    straight forward news, Im sure my mate, who lives not far from me here wont mind. 

He worked until he was  67 years of age, Born and lived all his life in OZ.  Didnt know about the  (then scheme)  that  he could have   claimed a benefit payment for those who   continued working past the then  65 years retirement age, so missed out on   about  $3000.    However,  retired, at 67   as I said,,   the retirement age then being 65.    Made application  for the Age pension, got  supplied with a Customer Reference Number (CRN as  its called).     Travelled   from the  country town he  had worked in, with his missus and two kids.   Spent a few weeks in Perth,  made the big mistake of not checking with Centrelink as to the progress of his application, or advising them of his intentions of  relocating to here (his wife is Thai, with Oz permanent residency)    Packed up  and all flew here.      Waited, and waited, and waited.  After some months    phoned Centrelink, (the Age Pension office is In Hobart for   info,  ring them  if problems)      Was told no record of his application, he quoted his CRN,, never heard of it.    I assisted him over the next several month lodged notices, letters, appeals etc,  thought we were winning till the bombshell  struck when Centrelink pointed out the regulation that ALL persons, on first receiving the OAP, MUST   reside permanently in Oz before any portability of the pension is allowed.  (Holidays of up to 6 weeks duration are allowed) So  his application, which was never  located anyway, would have been rejected.          I know many on this forum dispute this, thats their right, but    ask around, and not just the guy on the next bar stool.

So you mean he would have has to get the Pension all approved, done and dusted and started receiving his first payments and then went? Or he would have had to reside in OZ 2 years after he started receiving the pension? and then it was portable?

 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

So you mean he would have has to get the Pension all approved, done and dusted and started receiving his first payments and then went? Or he would have had to reside in OZ 2 years after he started receiving the pension? and then it was portable?

 

The claimant could have had portability, but departed Oz before finalising his claim. Accordingly required to return to Oz to lodge Age Pension claim, then wait two years for portability. For the member who mentioned friend has Thai wife, he would not receive full pension pension if wife is of working age. 

[ozfarang]

6 hours ago, HAPPYNUFF said:

If you return to Oz,  and you are of age to receive the OAP,   your  first payment will be backdated from the date you lodged your application,  as it may take some  time   to process same.          Unfortunately , if you  decide to then leave Oz, for a period longer than 6 weeks,  your  total pension will cease  (you would have to re apply   if you should return.) 

It is a fact, as several mates of mine have found out, once granted    it is NOT portable,  that is   able to be paid to You overseas, until you have completed 2 years residency in OZ.    That  doesnt have to be in one stretch, you could go on six weeks holidays   in that time,  but the six weeks will be added on, until you do amass  the full 2 years.

 

If you return to Australia to receive the OAP after living overseas for a period of time your pension will not be portable for 2 years.

You can leave for holidays overseas and your pension payments will cease the day you leave and will not recommence until you return to Australia after you time away.

You can make short trips overseas during the 2 years you are waiting for your pension to become portable and this time away is NOT added to the 2 years for portability purposes, provided time spent out of Australia is not long periods or often during the 2 years.

I left 3 times to go overseas during my 2 year wait for portability, 6 weeks, and 2, 4 week periods. This 14 weeks was not added to the 2 years for portability purposes.

I am now living overseas and receiving the full marriage pension less the energy supplement and a reduced 'pension supplement' $685.40 a fortnight. My Thai wife receives the full marriage pension, $729.30, as she is in Australia waiting to complete her 2 years portability requirement.

 

The following link is helpful for travel outside Australia and receiving the OAP

 

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension/how-manage-your-payment/travel-outside-australia

[scorecard]

On 12/1/2021 at 3:41 PM, HAPPYNUFF said:

If you return to Oz,  and you are of age to receive the OAP,   your  first payment will be backdated from the date you lodged your application,  as it may take some  time   to process same.          Unfortunately , if you  decide to then leave Oz, for a period longer than 6 weeks,  your  total pension will cease  (you would have to re apply   if you should return.) 

It is a fact, as several mates of mine have found out, once granted    it is NOT portable,  that is   able to be paid to You overseas, until you have completed 2 years residency in OZ.    That  doesnt have to be in one stretch, you could go on six weeks holidays   in that time,  but the six weeks will be added on, until you do amass  the full 2 years.

As  for your mate  getting  $600 per fortnight,, the full SINGLE rate per  fortnight is now   in excess of $900,  that includes   extra payments given for telephone etc,   which amount to about   $60  per fortnight.  All   Ozzies who   reside overseas,  that is those  who Centrelink have identified, or who have confessed,   lose those extra benefits, so a FULL  SINGLE  rate pension would be in the high $800  per fortnight.         Your mate obviously has never notified Centrelink of  his decreasing $200,000 over the years, and they are still assessing him  as  having this.   If  he brings  up his file on the internet, with Centrelink,  he can adjust  his asset worth there, his pension  should then adjust accordingly.   I adjust mine    every 6 months or so.  In addition,  should his superannuation  fund balance have grown in   value,,,half his luck,,... this  will have also  affected his pension,  as Centrelink can access  any persons pension fund, b ut not their bank balance, legally.

I have heard some wonderful  stories from OZZies here, alleging how they retired at 40 cashed in their  huge super and left...That is not possible, until  you are 60 years of age, where are PORTION,, theunsecured section, can be withdrawn, once you pay the FULL  taxation rate, which starts at 30 cents in the $, increasing rapidly to 45 cents in the dollar.    As an addendum, I know of  some  who live here permanently, but havent disclosed that, and have not yet been found out,,,I shudder to think  what the tax man is going to do to  their assets in Oz  when they   die.as  many still  own houses there and  hold bank accounts, to receive their pension.

Just a small point "... as it may take some  time   to process same."

 

Not quite true, I returned, proved residency: lease on apartment, bank accounts with OZ address....

 

I started receiving OAP payments within 3 weeks which included about 4 days wait because there was an error (decades ago) in transferring paper based birth records to computerized records, took them time to discovered that's where the error was and to correct it and get a copy of the amended computerized records to Centrelink and accepted by Centrelink.

[scorecard]

On 12/21/2021 at 4:25 AM, scorecard said:

Just a small point "... as it may take some  time   to process same."

 

Not quite true, I returned, proved residency: lease on apartment, bank accounts with OZ address....

 

I started receiving OAP payments within 3 weeks which included about 4 days wait because there was an error (decades ago) in transferring paper based birth records to computerized records, took them time to discovered that's where the error was and to correct it and get a copy of the amended computerized records to Centrelink and accepted by Centrelink.

Another point possibly not known by many:

 

If/when you qualify for 'portability' (complete the 2 years back in Oz) and you do go abroad:

 

- You can request that Centrelink do an automatic international bank transfer to any bank account in the world and you can change it as often as you want. Quite easy to set up.

- Mine goes direct to a savings account with K Bank. Same day as payments in OZ. Seems to be a fully automatic process; from what I can se on the CREDIT ADVICE e.mail and confirmed in a phone call to Hobart the funds should be/are is in my Thai bank account within an hour or so after transfer lodged in Oz.

- The account receiving your payments can be a joint savings account. Centrelink told me they prefer that the other party to the joint savings account be a family member but it doesn't have to be. But obviously one of the names on the joint savings account must be you. The joint account can be 'both parties must sign', or it can be 'only one signature needed', Centrelink don't ask any questions re this point.

- My joint savings account is myself and my adult Thai son, only one signature needed.

- For INternational transfer OAP payments the time period changes from fortnightly to 4 weekly. My payment arrives into K bank every 4th Monday around 10:00 am.

- It's difficult to get a clear answer about international bank charges however the charges that appear are very low. I set up 2 incoming advice systems with K Bank:

1. I get an automatic/instantaneous SMS when the money arrives in my K bank joint account (very small SMS charges).
2. I get an automatic/instantaneous 'CREDIT ADVISE' e.mail from K bank which provides full details. The K Bank charge which appears for me is 87Baht per transfer (very small charges). 

If you want further details don't hesitate to call the Centrelink toll free line (Thailand to Hobart - free call) on 009 6136 2223 455.

 

Calls anwered quickly, very pleasant and friendly C/link officers, good listeners, very focused complete answers. You can call this number on any subject to do with OAP matters.

 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Another point possibly not known by many:

 

If/when you qualify for 'portability' (complete the 2 years back in Oz) and you do go abroad:

 

- You can request that Centrelink do an automatic international bank transfer to any bank account in the world and you can change it as often as you want. Quite easy to set up.

- Mine goes direct to a savings account with K Bank. Same day as payments in OZ. Seems to be a fully automatic process; from what I can se on the CREDIT ADVICE e.mail and confirmed in a phone call to Hobart the funds should be/are is in my Thai bank account within an hour or so after transfer lodged in Oz.

- The account receiving your payments can be a joint savings account. Centrelink told me they prefer that the other party to the joint savings account be a family member but it doesn't have to be. But obviously one of the names on the joint savings account must be you. The joint account can be 'both parties must sign', or it can be 'only one signature needed', Centrelink don't ask any questions re this point.

- My joint savings account is myself and my adult Thai son, only one signature needed.

- For INternational transfer OAP payments the time period changes from fortnightly to 4 weekly. My payment arrives into K bank every 4th Monday around 10:00 am.

- It's difficult to get a clear answer about international bank charges however the charges that appear are very low. I set up 2 incoming advice systems with K Bank:

1. I get an automatic/instantaneous SMS when the money arrives in my K bank joint account (very small SMS charges).
2. I get an automatic/instantaneous 'CREDIT ADVISE' e.mail from K bank which provides full details. The K Bank charge which appears for me is 87Baht per transfer (very small charges). 

If you want further details don't hesitate to call the Centrelink toll free line (Thailand to Hobart - free call) on 009 6136 2223 455.

 

Calls anwered quickly, very pleasant and friendly C/link officers, good listeners, very focused complete answers. You can call this number on any subject to do with OAP matters.

 

An aditional benefit is the exchange rate is set by the RBA, so one reveives a better rate than transfer via a commercial bank.

[scorecard]

On 7/28/2022 at 4:40 PM, simple1 said:

An aditional benefit is the exchange rate is set by the RBA, so one reveives a better rate than transfer via a commercial bank.

Also I've found, when discussing the OAP with other Aussies the following point is often misunderststood:

- The OAP is paid every 4 weeks. It's not paid at the end of each month (every 4 weeks for folks living outside of OZ who want their payments transferred to a Thai (or whatever), fortnightly  for folks living in Australia).

In other words it's NOT paid at the end of each calendar month.

- Every 4 weeks means that there's 13 payments per year.

- To calculate that as a monthly amount:

 ...... Multiply the 4 weekly amount by 13 and then divide the answer by 12 to get a monthly amount.