Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

Of course , they do ...

But is there enough reliable data yet ?

From their current research, they feel confident the jabs will work.  Just not sure how well with this variant.  As good as it does with Delta, or a bit less.  We should know in a few weeks.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

There seems to be a certain ' tolerance ' in defining the word immunity ...? I think becoming ' immune ' to something gives you a 100% protection .

If the immunity is not 100% then , for me , it should be mentioned as being a ' protection ' of a certain percentage ...

But many talk of , let's say , 80% ( or whatever ) Immunity ...

So , my definition of the word immunity is probably wrong ...?

Anyway , I'll stop to talk about that now .

No credible article or scientist have ever said 100% protection. 

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, blackprince said:

Here's what the link says "With nine in 10 of those aged 12 or over having had a single jab and eight in 10 having had a second, the country is now ramping up a booster campaign in an attempt to stop a potential wave of cases driven by the new Omicron variant."

Bye.

But that's not the same as 90% of the UK's total population, is it?

Here's the latest data from Our World in Data. 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/united-kingdom

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by placeholder

[Jeffr2]

53 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Tell that to the fully vaccinated 'hero doctor' that recently died of COVID.

If the vaccines prevent infection ........ how did he die from COVID?

 

Ridiculous comment.

[ThomasThBKK]

2 hours ago, bestie said:

That's was Germans like total control and if they cant reach it they put their own people in jail who refusing to get vaccinated. finding a victim blaming them they good in it. look to the past. sorry but you guys are complete out of control.

The only country in the world without speed limits, a country where u can run around with a beer in your hand without getting arrested unlike america, country that is open to all neighbouring countries without travel restrictions.

 

Yeah total control freaks unlike Thailand and co. ????

 

 

It's quite obvious that germanies healthcare system is collapsing, many nurses quit, ICU beds are down as no personal is available and/or is dead. Unvaccinated people are an extra burden on every nurse and doctor and thus the whole population, surgeries are moved as hospitals are busy with covid and have no extra beds, but oh well, who cares as long as some coward doesn't have to get a syringe in his arm?

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well he made a claim that the BBC was reporting a 90% vaccinated figure which it is not. The official as of the 30th Nov is in the graphic below. 68.3% double vaccinated and 75% at least one dose

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Well, I agree that at best his post is misleading since the 90% figure only applies to those who are either singly or fully vaccinated aged 12 and older.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, I agree that at best his post is misleading since the 90% figure only applies to those who are either singly or fully vaccinated aged 12 and older.

I should add that while the post may have been misleading, it's extremely unlikely that the intention was to mislead.

[blackprince]

@Bkk Brian

 

And here's a link to a BBC article about the risk of super-spreader events. It's not the same one that I posted yesterday, but there have been so many such articles from reputable sources that no reasonable person is in doubt of the risk they pose.

 

Children are not usually in attendance for super spreader events, though of course for some events they may. Super spreader events in the UK in the last few months have been overwhelmingly vaxxed adults as per the mind-numbingly packed maskless event that I posted yesterday.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59414343

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

It is my hope that in the future people who have refused the vaccine are turned away from ICUs if they come down with Covid. IMO they don't deserve the right to be there.

I would never advocate denying anyone the medical treatment they need.

 

There is however a flip side to the deal.

 

First the ‘Rights’ side:

Medical treatment will always be given, paid for by others and provided by people putting their own health and lives at risk. 

 

Now the ‘Responsibility’ side:

The Government mandate makes it a responsibility to get vaccinated, reduce your risk of becoming ill and requiring hospitalization and all associated costs and burdens on others.

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

I think the argument about mild cases is going down the drain.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/02/south-africa-considers-vaccine-mandates-as-omicron-cases-spiral-leaders-decry-travel-bans.html

 

South Africa considers vaccine mandates as omicron cases spiral

 

 

Omicron is rapidly becoming the dominant variant on South Africa, with the country’s National Institute for Communicable Diseases saying it is seeing an “exponential increase in infections,” with 74% of virus genomes sequenced in the last month belonging to the new variant.

 

Cases increased from a weekly average of 300 two weeks ago to 1,000 per day last week. On Wednesday, the country recorded 8,561 cases.

 

In a televised address on Sunday, President Cyril Ramaphosa said epidemiologists and disease modelers were warning that South Africa should expect a fourth wave of Covid-19 in early December, with the variant now found in all of the country’s provinces.

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, blackprince said:

@Bkk Brian

 

And here's a link to a BBC article about the risk of super-spreader events. It's not the same one that I posted yesterday, but there have been so many such articles from reputable sources that no reasonable person is in doubt of the risk they pose.

 

Children are not usually in attendance for super spreader events, though of course for some events they may. Super spreader events in the UK in the last few months have been overwhelmingly vaxxed adults as per the mind-numbingly packed maskless event that I posted yesterday.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59414343

 

 

Really not sure why you tag me in on this? I'm well aware of what super spreader events are, how they happen and why, be that here or in the UK. As for the UK one of my daughters lives in Newquay Cornwall and went along to the Broadmasters music festival back in August with her young children for a day out, turned out to be a 5,000 case spread event including her and both kids aged 8 and 5.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

I think the argument about mild cases is going down the drain.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/02/south-africa-considers-vaccine-mandates-as-omicron-cases-spiral-leaders-decry-travel-bans.html

 

South Africa considers vaccine mandates as omicron cases spiral

 

 

Omicron is rapidly becoming the dominant variant on South Africa, with the country’s National Institute for Communicable Diseases saying it is seeing an “exponential increase in infections,” with 74% of virus genomes sequenced in the last month belonging to the new variant.

 

Cases increased from a weekly average of 300 two weeks ago to 1,000 per day last week. On Wednesday, the country recorded 8,561 cases.

 

In a televised address on Sunday, President Cyril Ramaphosa said epidemiologists and disease modelers were warning that South Africa should expect a fourth wave of Covid-19 in early December, with the variant now found in all of the country’s provinces.

 

 

 

Well virulence and transmissibility are 2 separate issues. That said, until a lot more data is available, obviously it's best to treat omicron's virulence as an unsettled question and assume that it's no better, and possibly worse, than current variants.

[Captain Monday]

1 hour ago, TropicalGuy said:

It’s been coming and the time is now for mandatory vax by law. Analogy is Smoking. Even civilized advanced nations with educated rational populations, with full access to sufficient science, surprisingly all have this circa 20% adult hardcore rump of dangerous anti vaxxers who need to be dealt with by our elected reps. enacting democratic laws for best protection of all. 

81 percent of American I hear today have at least one dose. 20 percent are so gaslighted and torqued up  they will not take it, deny it, even belittle the virus aand want to get infected to prove a point. Some die trying.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/12/01/marcus-lamb-christian-daystar-television-network-dies-covid/8820884002/

 

The problem is usually when you get 80 percent you win. Not against Corona

 

These anti-vaxXers and deniers largely need to be excluded from public life.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well virulence and transmissibility are 2 separate issues. That said, until a lot more data is available, obviously it's best to treat omicron's virulence as an unsettled question and assume that it's no better, and possibly worse, than current variants.

Transmissibility appears to be worse.  And, if more get infected, more will get sick.  If more get sick, more are likely to die.  Doesn't mean it's more deadly.  Just easier to pass on and infect others.

 

But yes, we'll know more in a few weeks.  So far, not looking good.

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

81 percent of American I hear today have at least one dose. 20 percent are so gaslighted and torqued up  they will not take it, deny it, even belittle the virus aand want to get infected to prove a point. Some die trying.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/12/01/marcus-lamb-christian-daystar-television-network-dies-covid/8820884002/

 

The problem is usually when you get 80 percent you win. Not against Corona

 

These anti-vaxXers and deniers largely need to be excluded from public life.

Not so sure about that.  A bit less than 60% are fully vaccinated.  About 70% with one jab.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Jeffr2

[TropicalGuy]

Invariably the anti -vax cult crowd appear to be absent any education beyond junior high. It’s as if they never discovered how to learn properly, to challenge unreason, like pre-enlightenment throwbacks, they are immune to reason, logic and true science.
 

Cue “sad” emojis, but no rational argument, from such “characters”, when responding to simple common sense. Surely they misguidedly see themselves as rebel freedom- fighters for some grand cause.

 

They also invariably invoke their individual “Rights” without any mention of balancing those with Duty and Common Good.

 

Isolate the lot of them now by Law.

Let’s have a Vote as the time for discussion is Done.

[Captain Monday]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Not so sure about that.  A bit less than 60% are fully vaccinated.  About 70% with one jab.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

Just something I heard on a "major" news network just now talking heads discussing Bidens plan for the winter. The final 20-25 percent of are beyond hope, the deplorables. It has been 1000 plus dead per day for months many are "over" covid 19, distancing, and especially the masks.

 

covid-19 is not "over" us.   Expect continued mass death.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Invariably the anti -vax cult crowd appear to be absent any education beyond junior high. It’s as if they never discovered how to learn properly, to challenge unreason, like pre-enlightenment throwbacks, they are immune to reason, logic and true science.
 

Cue “sad” emojis, but no rational argument, from such “characters”, when responding to simple common sense. Surely they misguidedly see themselves as rebel freedom- fighters for some grand cause.

 

They also invariably invoke their individual “Rights” without any mention of balancing those with Duty and Common Good.

 

Isolate the lot of them now by Law.

Let’s have a Vote as the time for discussion is Done.

I would reject that there is any issue of education being the problem. There is ample evidence that the anti vax cult aka death cult is entirely politically driven. Many of them are vaccinated so the excuses about the vaccine being experimental and the unknown side effects don't wash. Those have mainly given way now to clinging to straws by repeating lies that the vaccines don't work and torturing the evidence to draw conclusions which aren't there.

 

https://theconversation.com/the-anti-vax-movement-is-being-radicalized-by-far-right-political-extremism-166396

 

"Unlike prior vaccination hesitancy, the current anti-vax movement cannot be explained by a lack of information or illogical thinking, especially in light of the significant press coverage and public health initiatives over the last several months."

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by ozimoron

[TropicalGuy]

Yes Cap, but here’s my killer theory …probably half the anti vax cult ARE vaxxed and just Trolling ! So that broad 20% ignorance drops to 10% …so we could then be close perhaps to Actual “Herd Immunity” ?

[Jeffr2]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I would reject that there is any issue of education being the problem. There is ample evidence that the anti vax cult aka death cult is entirely politically driven. Many of them are vaccinated so the excuses about the vaccine being experimental and the unknown side effects don't wash. Those have mainly given way now to clinging to straws by repeating lies that the vaccines don't work and torturing the evidence to draw conclusions which aren't there.

https://news.usc.edu/182848/education-covid-19-vaccine-safety-risks-usc-study/

 

Education is a bigger factor than race in desire for COVID-19 vaccine

Results from a new USC Dornsife study show that U.S. adults with higher education are significantly more likely to get a COVID-19 vaccination and to believe in the vaccine’s safety and effectiveness.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

https://news.usc.edu/182848/education-covid-19-vaccine-safety-risks-usc-study/

 

Education is a bigger factor than race in desire for COVID-19 vaccine

Results from a new USC Dornsife study show that U.S. adults with higher education are significantly more likely to get a COVID-19 vaccination and to believe in the vaccine’s safety and effectiveness.

I'm not suggesting that it's not a factor but given the widespread public health campaigns we need to look further. It is also a fact that education correlates with political preferences and so I think the education issue is more coincidental than causal.

 

"Scholars have resorted to the solution aversion model to account for the growing political division around vaccination."

Edited December 3, 2021 by ozimoron

[nobodysfriend]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Tell that to the fully vaccinated 'hero doctor' that recently died of COVID.

If the vaccines prevent infection ........ how did he die from COVID?

 

Another ' breakthrough ' case obviously ...

 

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavirus/more-than-6500-new-breakthrough-cases-in-mass-43-more-deaths-in-vaccinated-people/2578723/

 

The new report brings the total number of breakthrough cases to 77,647, and the death toll among people with breakthrough infections to 586.

[TropicalGuy]

Ozi; if we remove lack of education and add politics as root causes of expressed ( but not actual) Covid ignorance then the only remaining conclusion is “ evil deranged liars” = your “death cult” ; so much in common then with a certain  bomb-loving “religion”. 

[Dene16]

1 hour ago, blackprince said:

I got it from the BBC in an article published 2 or 3 days ago. I posted the link here yesterday I think. Feel free to find it.

90% or not, What I did find interesting was the number of 12-15 years old that had been vaccinated as (1) I was not aware they had even rolled out a vaccination and my tenants gave me indication to suspect otherwise (2) before it was being suggested everyone I knew said they were going to refuse it for their children.

The problem lies in the fact that in an average class of 30 pupils at least 3 or more will not be vaccinated and may well be different from region to region

Everyone had got used to wearing masks in stores and then suddenly they stopped it !!!!!
I noticed that mask wearing had decreased about 40%- 50% in supermarkets I frequent. Tesco have now finally forced the issue this week by declaring that no one will be allowed in without a mask so that my ageing mother can shop in safety???? 

 

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

I'm not suggesting that it's not a factor but given the widespread public health campaigns we need to look further. It is also a fact that education correlates with political preferences and so I think the education issue is more coincidental than causal.

As I've said before, I was in Portugal not long ago.  They have a very high vaccination rate and NO issues with wearing masks.  None.  The president was asked how it did it.  His reply? I didn't make it political.

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Another ' breakthrough ' case obviously ...

 

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavirus/more-than-6500-new-breakthrough-cases-in-mass-43-more-deaths-in-vaccinated-people/2578723/

 

The new report brings the total number of breakthrough cases to 77,647, and the death toll among people with breakthrough infections to 586.

What's your point?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

As I've said before, I was in Portugal not long ago.  They have a very high vaccination rate and NO issues with wearing masks.  None.  The president was asked how it did it.  His reply? I didn't make it political.

They don't have a society which remains divided by an unresolved civil war or a press which capitalizes on that premise.

[nobodysfriend]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

What's your point?

No point , just answered a question ...

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

No point , just answered a question ...

You answered a troll question.  I'm guessing you're a covid denier?  Anti vaxxer?

[Skallywag]

When did Germany become an Asean country anyway?? 

Why the <deleted> do I care what Germany is doing? or New York, California, England etc...

I know, I didn't have to open this thread or respond, my bad ????

Peace