Anti-vaxxers protest in Bangkok

[kiteman9]

3 hours ago, blackprince said:

I know of 5 or 6 cases where people in Thailand have died within a few days of a sino vaccine, yet every Thai I know and their families would be happy to receive a vaccine made in the west.

 

 

Not one Covid-19 case or death in our small village yet. We have had three deaths from the vaccines. The latest was a young healthy policeman who was found dead the morning after he received the vaccine. I'm not an anti-vaxxer but that makes you think somethings not right and that might be one reason for Thais protesting.

 

[Pravda]

10 minutes ago, kiteman9 said:

I'm not an anti-vaxxer but

There is no need to use this sentence to appease certain forum posters who think if you notice something slightly negative they automatically put you on electric chair. The day after I received my moderna shot there was a news that perfectly healthy woman in her 20's died from the same vaccine (in Thailand). Diagnosis, blood clot. The worst thing she complained for days before she died and doctors just ignored her.

 

 

[thepdru]

Big respect to them !

 

[Chelseafan]

10 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Democracy is alive it seems... freedom of choice, you make yours, let them make theirs.

 

Not when their choice impacts me.

 

[RichardColeman]

My own view on this is I believe in Free choice, free choice to have the vaccine or not. BUT, I also feel - especially looking at my own financial cash strapped NHS - that there needs to be some recompense to the NHS should you need their services for something a vaccine may have prevented. Personally I'd say you become financially liable for you total cost o treatment for covid, if you have had no reasonable reason not to have taken the covid jab or just plain refused to take it. I'd also make people responsible for paying back the treatment for stomach pumping after a too boozy night out.

 

This would allow anti-vaxers the choice, you don't have to take it, but its your gamble with your finances, future and housing.

[Willy Wombat]

Another thread for the Corona Karen’s to get on their high horse and preach their sanctimonious views

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Not when their choice impacts me.

 

So you want democracy, but on your terms... sounds like the present PM.

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, honcho said:

to be fair the vaccines are only vaguely efficient, and wear off in the twinkle of an eye so even tho im vaxed i sympathise with them

False.

They are massively effective at preventing death from Covid.

The jury is still out on future jab needs.

It might turn out that three times is the charm.

[Jingthing]

11 hours ago, blackprince said:

I know of 5 or 6 cases where people in Thailand have died within a few days of a sino vaccine, yet every Thai I know and their families would be happy to receive a vaccine made in the west.

 

 

Sorry but I don't find your report credible.  You know these cases, eh? Like people you know?  Stuff you've seen on that reliable misinformation source Facebook? Yes, there is a very tiny risk of death from these vaccines, not really different from vaccines in general. It's a case of the overall benefit outweighing the overall risk.

[JCauto]

11 hours ago, mruniverse said:

You don't need a masters degree to know what natural immunity is.  It's basic high-school biology.  Your comment indicates you may not know this, so perhaps you didn't go to high school and therefore don't have old text books to refer to.  In this case this wikipedia page may be helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunity_(medical)#Naturally_acquired

 

You're very welcome!

Ah, right on schedule! Look at Mr Wikipedia here! Somebody's attained a Wiki Ph.D. after their YU M.Sc. - you know it's bad form to brag to us unedumacated folks after you attain such high distinction?

Congrats on at least finding Wikipedia on your way to or from whatever quack anti-vax site you were "REseARChinG" - that's the pinnacle of knowledge to you, innit? Y'all would be amusing to play with except that you are likely infecting the unfortunate well-meaning friends and relatives who remember you from before you went off the deep end.

[Rhys]

Let's see, someone it the group is a close relation to the DP of PH.

 

[Jeffr2]

13 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Awesome. Help is needed in COVID wards in South Africa. Could this gang be sent there to help? As they have natural immunity, no protective equipment is needed, which is another plus.

Seems Omicron is evading natural immunity.  Some are getting Covid for the 3rd time.  So this argument used by anti vaxxers goes down the drain, like so many others.

[Jeffr2]

11 hours ago, EricTh said:

This world has really gone upside down because politicians control the world.

 

Vaccination should be voluntary and not forced.

Natural immunity is always better than the vaccines. Vaccines are just a simulation of the real virus albeit a weakened form.

Agreed.  Vaccinations should be voluntary.  Sadly, many have fallen for fake news and misinformation.  So, mandates are now necessary.

 

Again, for Omicron, natural immunity just went down the drain.

[Jeffr2]

11 hours ago, mruniverse said:

Good question.

 

If they were happy to have their children vaccinated against polio and smallpox with vaccine products that went through a long testing regime and have been used in the market for decades BUT are not happy to have themselves or their children vaccinated with a product that was fast-tracked under Trump's Operation Warp Speed, and were only able to be used because the Emergency Use Authorization allowed normal safety protocols to be bypassed, then are they still anti-vaxx?

 

What does that term even mean?

You need to research how this vaccine was developed.  You clearly are getting your news from the wrong sources.  This article might help.  It explains the entire process quite well.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/opinion/covid-vaccine-safety.html

 

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, honcho said:

to be fair the vaccines are only vaguely efficient, and wear off in the twinkle of an eye so even tho im vaxed i sympathise with them

Misinformation.

[brianthainess]

Tw@ts !

[PremiumLane]

12 hours ago, mruniverse said:

Natural immunity is what it's called when your body's immune system reacts to the presence of a virus by producing antibodies that can protect against that virus.

 

You appear not to know this.  So you're calling other people moronic for knowing something that you don't know?

 

What does that make you?

Really? I never knew how natural immunity worked.....and you don't appear to know that natural immunity is boosted by a vaccine, and immunity from a vaccine lasts longer. 

 

And how was natural immunity against diseases such as polio? Are we just gonna let it go to pot-luck, if you have the immunity then it is OK, if not, then screw you? Screw modern science and medicine, what do we need that for, hey? 

[PremiumLane]

16 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Democracy is alive it seems... freedom of choice, you make yours, let them make theirs.

 

never said anything about freedom of choice, I just called them morons ???? 

[blackprince]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sorry but I don't find your report credible.  You know these cases, eh? Like people you know?  Stuff you've seen on that reliable misinformation source Facebook? Yes, there is a very tiny risk of death from these vaccines, not really different from vaccines in general. It's a case of the overall benefit outweighing the overall risk.

I said Thai people and families I know Jing, not people I hear about on Facebook. I never use Facebook actually.

 

Many of the culture warriors here don't actually live in Thailand, that's why they have nothing to say about Thailand, but those of us who not only live in Thailand, but who are also integrated into Thai society rather than living in the various expat enclaves, do have a lot of experience that may not fit into the tidy binaries of the culture war.

 

If it had been just one death, I'd have said nothing about it, but it's now 6 deaths just in the families of people I know. I even hesitated to post it here, as I expected comments such as yours, but what I post is true.

[PremiumLane]

15 hours ago, ukrules said:

Becoming infected with COVID and surviving it which is more common than a lot of people seem to appreciate does indeed leave you with a degree of immunity, because if it didn't you would not recover.

So, pot luck then? And if you don't develop immunity? 

 

Also, vaccines boost immunity, and for longer, go figure. 

[hotchilli]

2 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

never said anything about freedom of choice, I just called them morons ???? 

Why, because they don't share your view?

[PremiumLane]

Just now, hotchilli said:

Why, because they don't share your view?

Ah yes, it is all just about views and opinions, right? And yeah, I have my freedom to call them morons, that is what free speech is all about ???? 

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, blackprince said:

I said Thai people and families I know Jing, not people I hear about on Facebook. I never use Facebook actually.

 

Many of the culture warriors here don't actually live in Thailand, that's why they have nothing to say about Thailand, but those of us who not only live in Thailand, but who are also integrated into Thai society rather than living in the various expat enclaves, do have a lot of experience that may not fit into the tidy binaries of the culture war.

 

If it had been just one death, I'd have said nothing about it, but it's now 6 deaths just in the families of people I know. I even hesitated to post it here, as I expected comments such as yours, but what I post is true.

If true, you have to balance this against how many covid deaths there would have been.  And as we know, that would be orders of magnitude greater than 6.

[blackprince]

18 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

If true, you have to balance this against how many covid deaths there would have been.  And as we know, that would be orders of magnitude greater than 6.

Jeff I'm a statistician at BSc & MA level, and have managed data science projects for decades.

 

As a data science professional I am aware of the limitations of anecdotal evidence, but sometimes that's all we have, as in the case of sino deaths in Thailand.

 

By the way, the metric you suggest would not be the correct metric in this particular case anyway. The correct metric would be the number of people in the families I know that received a sino vaccine v the number of people in the families I know that died within a few days of a sino vaccine.

 

I know a senior research doctor here who has tracked the results more formally, but I won't post them as she is unwilling to publish them herself, for reasons that you can perhaps guess at.

 

If you want to conduct a full exploration of sino related deaths in Thailand, be my guest, but you'll find it very hard for fairly obvious reasons - the stats, if they exist, have not been published.

 

I have a lot of work to do this morning, so I won't have time for fighting about this, and frankly I have no interest in doing so either.

 

One final thing, all of the Thai people I know, and believe me that's a large number, would be happy to take a western made vaccine. They are not anti vaxx, but they have a far greater understanding of their society than you, or me for that matter.

 

Cheers mate.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by blackprince

[Jeffr2]

6 minutes ago, blackprince said:

Jeff I'm a statistician at BSc & MA level, and have managed data science projects for decades.

 

As a data science professional I am aware of the limitations of anecdotal evidence, but sometimes that's all we have, as in the case of sino deaths in Thailand.

 

By the way, the metric you suggest would not be the correct metric in this particular case anyway. The correct metric would be the number of people in the families I know that received a sino vaccine v the number of people in the families I know that died within a few days of a sino vaccine.

 

I know a senior research doctor here who has tracked the results more formally, but I won't post them as she is unwilling to publish them herself, for reasons that you can perhaps guess at.

 

If you want to conduct a full exploration of sino related deaths in Thailand, be my guest, but you'll find it very hard for fairly obvious reasons - the stats, if they exist, have not been published.

 

I have a lot of work to do this morning, so I won't have time for fighting about this, and frankly I have no interest in doing so either.

 

One final thing, all of the Thai people I know, and believe me that's a large number, would be happy to take a western made vaccine. They are not anti vaxx, but they have a far greater understanding of their society than you, or me for that matter.

 

Cheers mate.

 

LOL.  I've got a masters in this also.  Seriously.  But oriented towards econometric modeling.  Which I did for a very long time.  Use to have a blast graphing and plotting this. 

 

I think the proper comparison isn't just who you know, but an entire region.  In that case, orders of magnitude would be a proper comparison.  Around 21,000 have died in Thailand from covid.  That we know of, as this number is probably low.

[blackprince]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

LOL.  I've got a masters in this also.  Seriously.  But oriented towards econometric modeling.  Which I did for a very long time.  Use to have a blast graphing and plotting this. 

 

I think the proper comparison isn't just who you know, but an entire region.  In that case, orders of magnitude would be a proper comparison.  Around 21,000 have died in Thailand from covid.  That we know of, as this number is probably low.

I can only talk about the families I know in the absence of stats. That's why the metric I suggested is a better one. It's not a perfect metric, but in the absence of stats it's the best I can offer. We statisticians used to call this a "heuristic", but that term has become overloaded with all sorts of other meanings from other professional domains, some of them quite pejorative, so I hesitate to use it.

 

I'm about to go into a room full of Thai colleagues, half of whom are holding out for a western vaccine, the other half have taken a sino - you'll be pleased to know they are all  very much alive!

 

have a good day.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, blackprince said:

I said Thai people and families I know Jing, not people I hear about on Facebook. I never use Facebook actually.

 

Many of the culture warriors here don't actually live in Thailand, that's why they have nothing to say about Thailand, but those of us who not only live in Thailand, but who are also integrated into Thai society rather than living in the various expat enclaves, do have a lot of experience that may not fit into the tidy binaries of the culture war.

 

If it had been just one death, I'd have said nothing about it, but it's now 6 deaths just in the families of people I know. I even hesitated to post it here, as I expected comments such as yours, but what I post is true.

That sounds incredibly unlikely.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That sounds incredibly unlikely.

My thoughts too. I live in one of the most highly vaxxed Provinces in Thailand and know a fair amount of Thai people although my wife certainly does and we've never heard of any deaths after taking a vaccine of any brand let alone Sinovac. His claim of knowing 6 that have died is just unbelievable simple as that.

[blackprince]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That sounds incredibly unlikely.

Whatever it sounds like to you Jing it's absolutely true sir.

 

None of the Thais I know are anti-vaxx, they are all keen to get a western made vaccine, but they are all a bit reticent about sino, some of them simply refuse to have sino.

 

Quite a few are also reticent about AZ because (1) many have experienced body pain that has kept them off work for 2 or 3 days including several young women I work with (2) they believe it's made in Thailand - and of course some of it is, thanks to Oxford University stipulating that its intellectual property should be freely available until the pandemic is under control. I have tried to find stats about how much of the AZ in Thailand is made here and how much is made in the west, but I have not been able to find such stats.

 

We 1st worlders by origin are immensely lucky in many ways, not least of all our governments are the most transparent in the word. All sorts of stats that we take for granted, for example on the economy or healthcare are not available in other parts of the world, or not available in such detail, or less reliable. Believe me, I know our 1st world governments have problems too, but let's not go there.

 

I know many Thais, I work with Thais, my family is Thai, there is only one farang in my area (apart from me) - his family is also Thai.

 

Anyway, my coffee break is over. I need to get back to work.

 

Cheers Jing.

[tomster]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

Others claimed to have developed "natural immunity" without the need for vaccine.

Isn't that what has been happening since pretty much the start of life on earth - pretty sure we've survived respiratory viruses without vaccines and face nappies up until now...

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by tomster