Why does it seem that so many people here are working class?

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The rich aren't all greedy and selfish anymore than the poor are all hardworking and honest. 

Class is not defined by wealth, at least not in the civilised world.

[Tippaporn]

3 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

Why is it necessary to classify someone as working class, middle class, upper class? What's the purpose?

If one investigates there would be many reasons found.  Amongst them, and the reason for some, is the manufactured feeling of superiority.  Wealth, for instance, is not a guarantor or bestower of any of the noble human virtues and attributes.  Yet the finest virtues and the best of human traits seem to be automatically conferred upon one for the mere ability to attract a great deal of money; and despite the fact that in many cases the truth is that the individual is in possession of the most ignoble of virtues and is lacking of any wholesome human trait.

I don't wish to imply the above example is the only reason.  But it is, from my observation, a common one.

[cape]

"Class" is about the job you do or did. It says something about your income, education and your interests. So it is useful for marketing purposes.

For example, if you run a newspaper of some sort that gets its income from advertisers, you'd like to know what "class" your readers are because then you can focus your marketing on companies making products or offering services that will benefit your readers.

[Tippaporn]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What's wrong is there is no class to define the current glut of worthless people given a free ride in the world. Many of whom have never worked and live off benefits all their life.

Since the categorisations are entirely made up with rather loose definitions applied then there's nothing preventing the creation of another arbitrary class which we shall call the 'grifter class.'  Anyone with a background in maths would be familiar with the concept of 'sets.'  Sets can and do overlap.  In which case sets of classes can overlap.  Someone may be found in the 'upper class,' for instance, and also found to be in the 'grifter class.'

[allanos]

I see Class, with a capital C, as being utterly different to "class", The latter is often an arbiter of what makes the difference in both.

 

I am referring, of course, to such things as politeness, good manners, respect for others, social awareness, personal behaviours, and etiquette, which say much about whether one has "class" or not.

 

Observation of these traits in others often speaks loudly to their Class, (with a capital C), better than a determination of their wealth or lack of it.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by allanos
typo

[NoshowJones]

On 12/19/2021 at 4:39 PM, Chris.B said:

"Where are all the middle class and upper middle class retirees?"

 

South of France, renovating chateau for UK TV shows!

"Where are all the middle class and upper middle class retirees?"

Definitely not in Thailand unless they have a screw loose somewhere.

[Tippaporn]

24 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What's wrong with defining people by class? Sure, there are exceptions, but there are exceptions to most every rule. I think it much better than defining people by race which seems to be where we're headed. 

 

I have much more in common with a middle class black man than I do with a ruling class white man. 

Because who we really are can never be defined by such categorisations.  Classing people, in my humble opinion, serves no beneficial purpose but does do harm by inherently dividing people into groups.  Groups who are then seen to be at odds with each other.  Whatever amount of strife is then created between groups.

 

Also one cannot deny that classing people, wittingly or unwittingly, ultimately becomes a definition of ones value, too.  That's where the slope becomes very slippery, indeed.

[Tippaporn]

15 minutes ago, cape said:

<snip>

. . . that will benefit your readers.

Really?!  LOL  Sorry, mate.  I've never had a very positive opinion of marketing.  I wouldn't believe for an instant that it's for the "benefit" of anyone other than the marketers and those selling their product or service.  The old joke about marketing is the art of figuring out how to sell a refrigerator to an Eskimo.

 

Taking humanity and categorising the whole of it is done especially by those who seek to benefit from doing so.  Again, this in my humble and cynical opinion.

[HappyExpat57]

I've often said really wealthy people don't retire in Thailand. Too many better places if you have the money. Thailand is just that much more inexpensive.

[sawadee1947]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:16 AM, Tippaporn said:

Where's the option for "None."  I'm classless.

Or clueless?????

[2009]

It is a funny thing.

 

Even those in Thailand's high society are also working class people.

 

And then there are those out in Issan with nothing to do except play with their car collection.

[2009]

I was raised in upper middle, probably, but my family are a migrant family and very working class - so it's hard to say exactly.

 

I have worked minimum wage, blue collar, and white collar.

 

In Thailand, I am very much better off than the average, I would say. Who knows where I fit in here, lol? 

 

I have lived in the lowest socio-economic area in Thailand and also am loosely part of Thailand's high society - yet I am swilling Chang at an Issan street stall as we speak.

 

I studied in a top 20 high school in my country and my kid studies in arguably perhaps the top school in Thailand.

 

I have used my body and mind to work for money and also my money works for me.

 

I dunno, anyway, I think I am class tho.

 

Funny thing is: the only people who have treated me like I am lower than them are the lowest of the low in Thailand. I suppose they have to be higher than someone, or at least feel like they are. But the true elite here are graceful.

 

[zzaa09]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Class is not defined by wealth, at least not in the civilised world.

Of course.

Civilised world.

Whatever that is.

[The Cipher]

5 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

How did the OP determine (what criteria) who was what from observations of expats on this forum, mostly I assume are more or less ones he has never met?

Honestly, it's not that hard.

 

You can tell a lot about someone by what they say, what they don't say, how something is said, and what their perspective is on certain topics. It's not foolproof, but with a sample size as large as this forum it's pretty easy nail down the profile of a 'typical' member.

 

Think about it. The profile is: white, male, age 50+, retired, net worth sub $1M (and if $1M+ wealth usually locked in primary home country residence), low-mid IQ, strongly external locus of control, relatively mass market tastes/preferences (shaped by formative environment) etc.

 

Again, won't describe 100% of members, but I'd feel confident saying that bulk of users would cleanly check most of the above boxes.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, The Cipher said:

Again, won't describe 100% of members, but I'd feel confident saying that bulk of users would cleanly check most of the above boxes.

But that's also the majority of all retired men worldwide.

So not very incisive thinking on your part.

Edited December 21, 2021 by BritManToo

[The Cipher]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But that's also the majority of all retired men worldwide.

So not very incisive thinking on your part.

Actually this is a surprisingly accurate comment. Those characteristics do indeed describe most retirement men worldwide lol.

 

But the point about 'how can you tell what the average poster here is like' still stands.

 

Edit: To add, I guess we could drill down deeper to include more specific characteristics like 'cross cultural relationships wife/gf from Southeast Asia', but you get the point.

The characteristics that I listed were those that stood out most jarringly to me compared to other older people that I interact with on/offline. However the chances that I live in a bubble are high, so it's possible that more of the world is like this than I appreciate.

Edited December 21, 2021 by The Cipher

[transam]

28 minutes ago, 2009 said:

I was raised in upper middle, probably, but my family are a migrant family and very working class - so it's hard to say exactly.

 

I have worked minimum wage, blue collar, and white collar.

 

In Thailand, I am very much better off than the average, I would say. Who knows where I fit in here, lol? 

 

I have lived in the lowest socio-economic area in Thailand and also am loosely part of Thailand's high society - yet I am swilling Chang at an Issan street stall as we speak.

 

I studied in a top 20 high school in my country and my kid studies in arguably perhaps the top school in Thailand.

 

I have used my body and mind to work for money and also my money works for me.

 

I dunno, anyway, I think I am class tho.

 

Funny thing is: the only people who have treated me like I am lower than them are the lowest of the low in Thailand. I suppose they have to be higher than someone, or at least feel like they are. But the true elite here are graceful.

 

Don't think I know what your 'true elite' is, but I do think there are those who 'think' they are better than others, some because they run down the Isaan part of the country, yet probably know nothing about it........????

[transam]

1 minute ago, The Cipher said:

Actually this is a surprisingly accurate comment. Those characteristics do indeed describe most retirement men worldwide lol.

 

But the point about 'how can you tell what the average poster here is like' still stands.

What a load of tosh.....????

[The Cipher]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

What a load of tosh.....????

Not trying to devolve into bickering, but if there's a lie in my post you're free to point it out ????

[Tippaporn]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Class is not defined by wealth, at least not in the civilised world.

The civilised world?  Where's that?  I wanna go!!

[Tippaporn]

34 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

<snip>

 

Think about it. The profile is: white, male, age 50+, retired, net worth sub $1M (and if $1M+ wealth usually locked in primary home country residence), low-mid IQ, strongly external locus of control, relatively mass market tastes/preferences (shaped by formative environment) etc.

 

<snip>

No mention of testosterone levels?

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

The civilised world?  Where's that?  I wanna go!!

Europe of course.

As we all know, America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without passing through civilisation.

[Tippaporn]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Europe of course.

As we all know, America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without passing through civilisation.

Seems Europe is about to experience the dark ages again, though.  I hear Austria's as-of-now preferred method of quelling the expected upcoming social unrest over forced vaccinations is to ban daytime protests.  Justification being that the government thinks it too cruel to have protesters interfere with people's last minute Christmas shopping.  LOL  Sounds to get barbaric very soon.

[khunPer]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:06 AM, Freddy42OZ said:

Where are all the middle class and upper middle class retirees? 

Most of upper middle class don't care about this forum, they have too much money they need to spend on all the fun in amazing Thailand and their hi-so life-style. So they are out there sitting in their luxury pool villas and enjoying the sea view with a cool drink. and they probably not mingle a lot - keeping themselves to their own class - just like many people use 5-star resorts for the extended privacy and won't risk to mingle with the mob...????

 

More seriously, there might be a larger number of lower income retirees in Thailand, mainly coming as kind of financial refugees, as their money lasts a little longer here, even that it's not a longer like living for pennies on the dollar. Those with enough money - the more wealthy higher middle class - will have plenty of excellent options around the World, which they might find more attractive than Thailand.

 

And exactly where are the borders between working class retirees and middle class retirees, $500,000 or $1 million in savings? And upper middle class retirees, what financial level are those presumed to be in? And is it only income and savings that makes the difference, or also education, and former, or even present, profession?

 

In the area of LOS where I live there are plenty of high end villas with foreigners, some are retired, and some are not. Those of the few from hi-end villas that I know don't head much out for the same places as the mob; however I know one exclusion. One preferred to sail in his small yacht - small compared to some of the yachts you see - and instead invited friends to join him (the boat had two en-suite guest rooms). Others play tennis or golf rather than visiting a pub, or ride on private jet-ski or smaller speed boats that can be towed up on a cart into their beachfront villas; others just don't go much out, and rather have food brought to their house. Noneof them seems to care much about social networks, they probably don't need them.

 

There must be a relative huge number in a class way above my life-style, judged from the number of high level villas and ditto cars that I see foreigners drive in; i.e. someone must live in the 70+ million baht villas, the most expensive private villa I've seen advertised for sale here was 475 million baht. Some also seems to be able to afford more than one child in international school, and the kids being picked up by cars that folks with a more modest life-style only can afford to dreams about. However it's pure qualified speculation based on what I see and hear, I have no statistics. I however noticed that a few arrived in private jets, which of course could have been be chartered, but one with a N-registration was parked on-and-off in the local airport for ages, but I presume that kind of people are in hi-so level...????

[swissie]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Europe of course.

As we all know, America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without passing through civilisation.

Ouups! Some will say that this sentence sums it up quite nicely. Putting the jobs of a zillion scholars in jeopardy that have been analysing "The American Way" for ages.

As they have never managed to put Barbarism behind them an Decadence is omnipresent, in order to describe the current state of affairs, a new word comes to mind:

= BARBADENCE (Barbarism and Decadence). ????

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, khunPer said:

even that it's not a longer like living for pennies on the dollar.

I estimate I'm living for 30 pence on the pound in Thailand.

But I couldn't afford my current woman back in the UK unless I was as rich as Paul McCartney.

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, khunPer said:

There must be a relative huge number in a class way above my life-style, judged from the number of high level villas and ditto cars that I see foreigners drive in; i.e. someone must live in the 70+ million baht villas, the most expensive private villa I've seen advertised for sale here was 475 million baht.

I don't know any rich foreigners, but I do know a Thai couple that live in a 100MBht teak house and large grounds. And it's not their only house ..........

 

Both of them totally miserable 24/7.

I'd rather be me, without all the wealth and relatively happy.

Edited December 21, 2021 by BritManToo

[DJ54]

IMO True friends aren’t judged by “class” .... seems an odd .. unnecessary question.. I’ve had the opportunity to met people from all walks of life ....

and we all put our pants on the same way.....

Edited December 21, 2021 by DJ54
Add

[2009]

1 hour ago, DJ54 said:

IMO True friends aren’t judged by “class” .... seems an odd .. unnecessary question.. I’ve had the opportunity to met people from all walks of life ....

and we all put our pants on the same way.....

That's the Western way.

 

My dad's circle of friends are: an engineer, a taxi driver, a teacher, a cook, a layabout scamming the social, a fireman, and a construction worker.

 

They all meet up and sit around the same table drinking the ssme beer. Friends since school.

 

That simply doesn't happen in Thailand - people here stick to their own class 

 

The Western way sounds nice and civilizated, but I do wish I hadn't married a Thai women from the absolute lowest plane of civilization here. My kids would have been better off, and myself (and I ain't talking about finances only).

 

[BritManToo]

Just now, 2009 said:

That simply doesn't happen in Thailand - people here stick to their own class 

I would have to disagree,

From my experience Thai people mainly socialise regularly with their own extended families.

The outsiders are around for a short time then disappear never to be seen again.