My Thai Social Security Experience, last week

[Troonew]

Social Security: My experience, last week, at SS office

 

Having gained a lot of important information on this forum, but never having posted, here is my experience with applying for Social Security Benefits upon Retirement last week which I hope might give some insights for those soon-to-be-retirees.

 Last June, I returned to the US to get my Pfizer vaccines as I was in a vulnerable demographic. (Over 60% of the 800,000 human beings who have died due to COVID in the US, SO FAR, are over 65 years old.)

Right around that time, all tertiary institutions in LOS mandated their “adjarn” teach from home. So, I did – from the American Heartland. Then, when my contract came up for renewal on August 1st,  I was told I had to return to LOS and go to the Labor Department, IN PERSON, to renew my contract. They would not share the costs of quarantine.

So, I retired. Since I am a boomer, that was NBD.

After returning last week, a Thai friend and I made a visit to the SS office in PT. Here is what the SS said I needed for the “lump sum” application :  1) application form 2) Copy of passport, signed. 3) Copy of bank book signed and 4) Copy of “Social Security card”, signed.

She, then,  gave me a print out with the lump sum amount, on the spot. She said it would take approximately one month to be processed.

The last document requested, though, is strange because the SS Office does not issue these cards anymore. Luckily, I had kept one from 2016 and they accepted it. But this begs the question: what happens if someone has not kept their social security card? What hoops would have to be jumped through in that case?

For those who might be interested in my experience when applying for health benefits upon retirement, the SS call center told my friend in Thai that I needed to be on “a house register”, own property, AND have a long-term visa, no tourist visas allowed. By now, I didn’t qualify for either. However, when we visited the health insurance section of the SS office, in person, they said, “In order to qualify for national health insurance, upon retirement, you must be married.” – no mention of owning property or having a long-term visa. (Also, there is only a six-month window to apply as well.)

In summary, the SS office in PT was very efficient and courteous but the matter of showing a social security card, when they are no longer issued, is “a head scratch-er”.

 

[Crossy]

25 minutes ago, Troonew said:

The last document requested, though, is strange because the SS Office does not issue these cards anymore.

 

Actually, it seems they do (or have re-started) @blackcab has just received his, I will be applying for mine (via work) "soon".

 

 

Your SS records are (apparently) also linked to your passport number so it's worth keeping that up to date too.

[OneMoreFarang]

In my experience it is often difficult to get answer to unusual questions anywhere in this world.

In other countries we might get the honest answer: I don't know, let me find out.

But in Thailand it seems most people would never admit that they don't know everything. Instead of saying they don't know they give an answer, any answer, to avoid saying: I don't know.

 

I am sure it won't happen often that foreigners ask those questions about retirement in Thailand very often. So it's unlikely that the officials know all the answers on the spot.

 

I guess if I would wanted to know I would ask a Thai person who is used to talking with officials to ask those questions. And maybe it's best to ask in writing so that the receivers have time to look up an answer before they actually answer.

 

Good luck!

[blackcab]

To claim a pension rebate you do not need to be in a house register, or own property, or be on a long term visa, or be married.

 

The Social Fund Act makes no mention of nationality and it treats all eligible contributors and claimants the same. The difficulty is that most Social Fund staff have not dealt with many non-Thai claimants.

 

Rather than say they have no idea because they have not been asked the question before and that they will go and search for the answer and get back to you, you received a different answer.

 

Most importantly, are you aware that you can remain in the Social Fund for a small monthly payment (432 baht per month last time I heard)?

 

You would continue to receive health coverage for as long as you paid into the scheme.

 

Depending on your circumstances this may or may not be of any use to you. The key point is that with the Social Fund you have a policy with unlimited coverage. This is quite important if you were to get a serious and expensive long term condition, and we are all getting older.

 

It's also useful as you do not need specialist covid insurance to get into Thailand.

 

This is pure speculation on my part, but if immigration were to require some other type of minimum insurance coverage in the future, it might be that the Social Fund policy would be accepted. This would be especially nice as coverage gets harder/more expensive to obtain the older you are.

 

You have 6 months after you retire to apply for this scheme, and the 6 months are strictly enforced. Do not delay.

 

You may be told that this scheme is not available for foreigners, but it is. As I mentioned earlier, the Social Fund Act makes no mention of nationality. There are, in fact, one or two members of this forum who I believe are on this scheme already.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

They also even gave me a benefit pamphlet in English.

 

Every once in awhile, makes you think they care just a bit about us "dirty farangs". ????????????????

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

You may be told that this scheme is not available for foreigners, but it is. As I mentioned earlier, the Social Fund Act makes no mention of nationality.

Indeed. Upon inquiring at previous schools, I was told "You don't want that insurance, it's no good" and "nobody uses it". Hah.

 

They also get out of paying taxes on your behalf too. One school I had moved to asked for my tax ID number and previous tax receipts. I was like, uh...what? Upon on inquiring at the tax office I found they never paid them. 

[TheScience]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

You don't need to be in a house register, or own property, or be on a long term visa, or be married.

This makes sense but clearly one must be on a proper visa or extension. I don't understand why the op balked at that one.

 

 

WP - I've had to go and pick up with four of five schools. You can doi it alone. 

 

I was told the BKK office has changed fyi anyone reading this. Admin says quite inconvenient.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

39 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Every once in awhile, makes you think they care just a bit about us "dirty farangs".

I've just been invited to go get my free Influenza vaccine. . . NOW I feel old!

[lexilis]

The info that Blackcab provided above is accurate (as far as I know). I have been on Thai SS for nearly five years now. Worked for 11 years as university lecturer (with WP). I am now retired (retirement extensions) and not married. Paying 432 Bt per month (pay at any 7-11). With Thai SS you are assigned a specific hospital for claims. Not all hospitals accept SS (e.g., CM Ram and Bangkok Hospital do not). Your assigned hospital does not have to be a government hospital (but most are). My assigned hospital is Lanna Hospital (which is a private hospital). You can request to change your assigned hospital which I might do because the outpatient services at Lanna are a chaotic mess. For minor outpatient issues and check-ups I generally do not use SS, I go to CM Ram or Bangkok Hospital and just pay for services myself. It's cheap enough and much better. I will use SS if (or when) I need serious in-patient treatments or surgery. I know another American also on SS who has had several surgeries at Lanna at no cost to him 

[Troonew]

Thanks for the brilliant replies, especially to Blackcab, who sounds like he has first hand experience......I entered on visa exempt on the 16th, just in the nick of time. Blackcab is right; it is quite important for those of us who plan on returning every winter to buy into this insurance scheme because the insurance requirements are surely going to get more and more strict as we get more and more old............ That means I am going to have to "lawyer up".......And, I agree, the officials aren't intentionally being misleading, they probably don't know themselves. How can I find an honest law firm that has experience in dealing with this issue without charging an "arm and a leg"? Again, many thanks as I was about to give up. Happy holidays!

[kiwiaussie]

To my count, you’ve got little more than a month to apply for your SS health coverage before all

rights to it are lost forever. 
 

Do yourself a favour, go down to the office and tell them you wants to continue the 432 per month coverage as is your right under Section 39 of the Social Security act.

 

https://www.mol.go.th/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/07/social_security_act_2533_sso_1.pdf

 

Don’t leave until you they have signed you up!!!!
 

For older expats retired in thailand it is the ultimate safety net and ultimate bargain. 

[blackcab]

4 hours ago, TheScience said:

This makes sense but clearly one must be on a proper visa or extension.

 

Not necessarily. As an example, work might finish on 24th December. Extension ends on 31st December.

 

The person leaves Thailand on 31st December. Two months later they enter Thailand as a tourist on a visa exemp entry stamp.

 

They then proceed to the Social Fund office to claim their retirement rebate.

 

Admittedly, it's not likely to happen, but it is possible.

[blackcab]

3 hours ago, Troonew said:

That means I am going to have to "lawyer up"

 

A lawyer can't do anything for you other than speak, read and write Thai.

 

There really is no need to pay for a lawyer unless it makes you feel more comfortable to do so. The Social Fund staff will get there in the end if your reason for being there is explained to them.

 

It is just that the first point of contact may say it's not possible as they might not have direct experience. Once the matter is referred to more senior staff things will more than likely get resolved.

 

All you need is a bilingual speaker who can speak polite Thai. As mentioned above, you want to apply under section 39.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, blackcab said:

All you need is a bilingual speaker who can speak polite Thai. As mentioned above, you want to apply under section 39.

And you need someone who you can trust and if possible someone who knows about laws and regulations.

 

If you select a person with good language skills but maybe not much knowledge it might happen that at the end of the day the person can't do what you want him to do. And maybe your running out of time. And then what?

Sorry, I tried my best but now there is no time anymore?

 

Obviously it doesn't have to be a lawyer but I would feel a lot better hiring a professional who is used to this kind of work.

[RBOP]

Now you can get a digital SSO card.  Its called SSO Connect. You will need a Wallet to put it in. But hospital always wants to see my pink card when ever I use SS health services as my 13 digit number is the same. 

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, kiwiaussie said:

To my count, you’ve got little more than a month to apply for your SS health coverage before all

rights to it are lost forever. 
 

Do yourself a favour, go down to the office and tell them you wants to continue the 432 per month coverage as is your right under Section 39 of the Social Security act.

 

https://www.mol.go.th/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/07/social_security_act_2533_sso_1.pdf

 

Don’t leave until you they have signed you up!!!!
 

For older expats retired in thailand it is the ultimate safety net and ultimate bargain. 

But unfortunately many farang, at retirement/payout of the SS fund don't/didn't know you can continue and, as shared, pay the monthly 432Baht contribution at 7/11 etc., forever.

 

I wasn't aware of this (12 years back) when I went for the payout (in those days paid in cash on the spot) until the day after the payout. My admin. manager learned about the next day and she immediately called to ask how to continue.

 

The SS officer said 'come to the office' quickly, we did within an hour same day.

 

Immediate response; 'sorry too late you have to be all signed up to continue privately before the payout happens'. 

 

Admin. manager called several agencies/senior officers, response: 'sorry what you have been told is correct and there's no flexibility.

 

Now it seems there's a 30 day window, but way too late for me. 

 

 

 

 

[hereforgood]

i went through the same hassle when I retired. Went to Sri Ratcha SS office and requested my Lump sum payout and to continue the medical coverage for the 432 per month. They insisted i no longer qualify. I knew i did as i made phone calls did my homework. I have a friend who went through this as well in Sri Ratcha. He went to Rayong SS office and no issue at all. I followed his advice and what a difference. I went in and told them what i wanted she gave me a form to fill out took copys of my Kbank book and passport and SS card. She took all the forms and copys and told me that the Lump sum payout would be in my Kbank account within a week and it was and let me know the 432 would be debited beginning the following month and it was. I would try another office if they dont allow it. 

[KhaoNiaw]

Could someone who's been through this clarify a couple of points? 

- It sounds like everyone here is claiming a lump sum upon retirement. I've always understood that if you've paid in beyond a certain period, the lump sum is no longer an option? You can only take a monthly payout?
- Also that you need to choose between taking retirement payments or continuing to pay into the system to receive the health benefits?
Thanks to anyone who can clarify these points, especially anyone who retired after paying in long-term and since the system began. 

[hereforgood]

2 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Could someone who's been through this clarify a couple of points? 

- It sounds like everyone here is claiming a lump sum upon retirement. I've always understood that if you've paid in beyond a certain period, the lump sum is no longer an option? You can only take a monthly payout?
- Also that you need to choose between taking retirement payments or continuing to pay into the system to receive the health benefits?
Thanks to anyone who can clarify these points, especially anyone who retired after paying in long-term and since the system began. 

I worked in the entertainment business for 15 years. first job 8 years and was going to retire. I got no hassle that time in Sri Ratcha SS office they paid me my lump about 80K and enrolled me in the SS medical plan all good. short while later was given a offer i could not turn down so went back to work did so for another 7 years and when i  retired that second time I had to go to Rayong SS cause as i posted above Sri Ratcha refused me but a trip to Rayong and was again paid the lump sum around 70K and was enrolled again in the SS Medical. It is 100 % cover as well paid for a double hip replacement in my case my cost zero 16 days in the hospital. If you are told no just try another SS office 

[RBOP]

4 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Could someone who's been through this clarify a couple of points? 

- It sounds like everyone here is claiming a lump sum upon retirement. I've always understood that if you've paid in beyond a certain period, the lump sum is no longer an option? You can only take a monthly payout?
- Also that you need to choose between taking retirement payments or continuing to pay into the system to receive the health benefits?
Thanks to anyone who can clarify these points, especially anyone who retired after paying in long-term and since the system began. 

You have to pay into the scheme for 180 months minimum for the option of either Old Age Pension monthly payments or lump sum. Anything less than 180 its only lump sum.

https://www.mol.go.th/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/07/social_security_act_2533_sso_1.pdf

[KhaoNiaw]

5 minutes ago, RBOP said:

You have to pay into the scheme for 180 months minimum for the option of either Old Age Pension monthly payments or lump sum. Anything less than 180 its only lump sum.

https://www.mol.go.th/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/07/social_security_act_2533_sso_1.pdf

Thanks for the link. I've been paying in since the scheme started and HR give us information every now and then. But it's interesting to hear people's first-hand experience. 

[Troonew]

The Lawyer from Busan

 

To follow up on the question about retirees’ eligibility to apply to the Thai National health insurance scheme under Section 39, I received many contradictory “opinions”. Therefore, I decided to get a legal opinion / finding. This legal finding will be shared with forum readers in due time.

I had another experience with navigating labor law, this time in the Republic of Korea. The “Lawyer from Busan” helped me navigate my rights when I was working for Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI) as a Training Development Specialist in the late 1980s in Ulsan, Korea. (I was a former Peace Corps Volunteer to Korea in the late 70s.)

Labor law, retirement and severance, often depends on treaties between host country employers and foreign employees. Oftentimes, the law varies, depending on reciprocal treaty agreements between two countries. Here is an example.

After working for Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI), Ulsan, ROK, the largest shipyard in the world, in the late 80s for three years, it was time to return Stateside due to family obligations – young kids. When I requested severance pay, they balked.

Then, I found “The Lawyer from Busan”. He pointed out the reciprocal labor treaty between ROK and USA. It required that severance pay of “one month for every year of employment” be paid to the departing employee, be he/she Korean or US citizen, as long as he/she was not dismissed “for cause”, and regardless of whether he/she resigned or not. (Different than LOS.)

I would have never have known about the obligations borne by the Korean employer (HHI), regarding severance pay, had I not hired “The Lawyer from Busan”. (Incidentally, in the late 80s, the labor strife at HHI was intense – labor riots. Today, HHI union workers are well paid, with good benefits, even better than some union shops in the United States. Korea has a strong middle class today. The United States used to have a strong middle class, the UK, the same, I understand.)

The HR management at HHI was not aware of labor law regarding severance pay either. But they liked to say “NO” a lot,  (Aniyo  Aniyo, Aniyo - "no can do") anyway. Ultimately, the legal side at HHI  agreed with “The Lawyer from Busan”. Then,  I received severance pay for three months, according to Korean law and treaty obligations.

[youreavinalaff]

On 12/23/2021 at 3:08 AM, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Upon on inquiring at the tax office I found they never paid them. 

Unlikely. Proof of income tax payments for the tax year is required for renewal of work permit and extension of stay.

 

In some cases, a switched on border control officer will also deny exit of the country if they see yo are on a Non B visa and don't have proof of tax payments.