Things must be worse than we think...

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, robblok said:

 

This variant is far more contagious, and vaccines still keep people for the most part out of the hospitals.

 

OR, perhaps the variant is more contagious and less virulent, regardless if vaccinated or not. It's probably too soon to be knowing much about the statistics yet.

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

It is certainly causing deaths.....231 reported in the UK yesterday... which is pretty much all Omicron,,, and in a population that is 90%/83%/61% vaccinated over 12 yo. (1st/2nd/3rd). The hospitals are overwhelmed as admissions are rising 64% week on week. On top of many staff off sick or isolating. Less pathogenic Omicron might well be, but it is causing issues. 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It is certainly causing deaths.....231 reported in the UK yesterday... which is pretty much all Omicron,,, and in a population that is 90%/83%/61% vaccinated over 12 yo. (1st/2nd/3rd). The hospitals are overwhelmed as admissions are rising 64% week on week. On top of many staff off sick or isolating. Less pathogenic Omicron might well be, but it is causing issues. 

UK government has had almost 2 years to prepare for a rise in patient numbers, but have they used that time wisely?

 

I did say Australia, which is in summer. The UK is in winter, which might make a difference.

[jacko45k]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

UK government has had almost 2 years to prepare for a rise in patient numbers, but have they used that time wisely?

 

I did say Australia, which is in summer. The UK is in winter, which might make a difference.

And they did... then closed the facilities when they were no longer necessary. Take a look, it has all happened in waves. This time around there is more impact of staff shortages. 

Anyhow, the topic is about Thailand, not UK, not Australia, both of which have horrendously worse infection numbers. 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, jacko45k said:

And they did... then closed the facilities when they were no longer necessary. Take a look, it has all happened in waves. This time around there is more impact of staff shortages. 

Anyhow, the topic is about Thailand, not UK, not Australia, both of which have horrendously worse infection numbers. 

Actually the topic is about Pattaya. If it were about Thailand it's be in a different subforum.

[Airalee]

12 hours ago, ozimoron said:

US sees record COVID-19 pediatric hospital admissions on Wednesday

 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/588525-us-sees-record-covid-19-pediatric-hospital-admissions-on-wednesday

“The majority of children hospitalized in recent weeks with serious cases of COVID-19 at one major New York City pediatric center had underlying conditions or were adolescents, a doctor told The Post.”

“Most younger children admitted to Northwell Health’s pediatric ICU amid a wave of Omicron were immunosuppressed, had cancer or other preexisting problems, said Dr. Matthew Harris, who specializes in pediatric emergency medicine. ”

 

“He said the hospital was hit by “a wave of diagnosis” among kids who often came in to be treated for reasons other than COVID-19, he said.”
 

 

https://nypost.com/2021/12/30/most-kids-in-icu-with-covid-19-had-underlying-conditions/

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Airalee said:

“The majority of children hospitalized in recent weeks with serious cases of COVID-19 at one major New York City pediatric center had underlying conditions or were adolescents, a doctor told The Post.”

“Most younger children admitted to Northwell Health’s pediatric ICU amid a wave of Omicron were immunosuppressed, had cancer or other preexisting problems, said Dr. Matthew Harris, who specializes in pediatric emergency medicine. ”

 

“He said the hospital was hit by “a wave of diagnosis” among kids who often came in to be treated for reasons other than COVID-19, he said.”
 

 

https://nypost.com/2021/12/30/most-kids-in-icu-with-covid-19-had-underlying-conditions/

Absolute garbage from a garbage source. The number of children admitted with covid was around half at best and many of those were aggravated by covid. There remains an ALARMING increase in pediatric admissions from covid.

 

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/State-Some-kids-with-COVID-19-in-hospitals-were-16738929.php

 

"That's especially true for children, who have seen COVID hospitalizations soar to unprecedented numbers in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut lately."

 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/ny-covid-hospitalizations-top-11k-as-state-reports-highest-single-day-death-toll-since-mass-vaccination-rollout/3482719/

 

"States are also reporting surges in the number of children hospitalized, and official data last week showed that pediatric hospital admissions reached a record high."

 

http://www.news.cn/english/20220106/85ec1e4b3f47439ab9c6feec824e1b54/c.html

 

"Pediatric coronavirus hospitalizations in Connecticut have risen dramatically in recent weeks, and health officials are reporting crowded emergency rooms in children’s hospitals."

 

https://ctmirror.org/2022/01/06/pediatric-covid-cases-rising-rapidly-in-connecticut/

 

"Doctors urge vigilance as some hospitals raise alarm about infants with COVID-19"

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/doctors-urge-vigilance-as-some-hospitals-raise-alarm-about-infants-with-covid-19-1.5730270

 

"Why COVID-19 hospitalizations of Canadian kids — and infants — could keep rising as Omicron spreads"

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/children-hospitalization-omicron-1.6305207

 

"The number of children being hospitalized with Covid-19 has soared to record highs in the U.S., a worrying trend experts believe is driven by low vaccination rates and the contagious omicron variant and could be worsened by unique complications caused by the way the strain infects the lungs. "

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2022/01/06/whats-driving-record-covid-hospitalizations-among-us-kids/?sh=78b577a643c0

 

"California hospitals strained for staff and bracing for omicron uptick, including among kids"

 

https://www.capradio.org/articles/2022/01/06/california-hospitals-strained-for-staff-and-bracing-for-omicron-uptick-including-among-kids/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=Fz83KhfZKA7aeJlBStcM5fh4ESAiFKZ83XnDwdO70iM-1641538982-0-gaNycGzNCGU

 

"More suburban kids hospitalized with severe COVID-19 cases as surge breaks records: ‘We just don’t know the implications’

 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2022/1/6/22870700/illinois-coronavirus-kids-hospitalized-covid-omicron-vaccinate-record-cases

 

 

[pixelaoffy]

14 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The number of beds was never related to hospitals being overwhelmed. It's always a staff issue.

Where? It is a number of beds avaible in some countries. So wrong again 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

Where? It is a number of beds avaible in some countries. So wrong again 

did you bother to read any of the links which all referred to staffing issues? We have seen ICU popups in car parks so I think you are not correct. If so, where are your supporting links. The deniers love to make pronouncements of facts without ever providing credible and relevant links.

Edited January 7, 2022 by ozimoron

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Absolute garbage from a garbage source. The number of children admitted with covid was around half at best and many of those were aggravated by covid. There remains an ALARMING increase in pediatric admissions from covid.

 

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/State-Some-kids-with-COVID-19-in-hospitals-were-16738929.php

 

"That's especially true for children, who have seen COVID hospitalizations soar to unprecedented numbers in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut lately."

 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/ny-covid-hospitalizations-top-11k-as-state-reports-highest-single-day-death-toll-since-mass-vaccination-rollout/3482719/

 

"States are also reporting surges in the number of children hospitalized, and official data last week showed that pediatric hospital admissions reached a record high."

 

http://www.news.cn/english/20220106/85ec1e4b3f47439ab9c6feec824e1b54/c.html

 

"Pediatric coronavirus hospitalizations in Connecticut have risen dramatically in recent weeks, and health officials are reporting crowded emergency rooms in children’s hospitals."

 

https://ctmirror.org/2022/01/06/pediatric-covid-cases-rising-rapidly-in-connecticut/

 

"Doctors urge vigilance as some hospitals raise alarm about infants with COVID-19"

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/doctors-urge-vigilance-as-some-hospitals-raise-alarm-about-infants-with-covid-19-1.5730270

 

"Why COVID-19 hospitalizations of Canadian kids — and infants — could keep rising as Omicron spreads"

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/children-hospitalization-omicron-1.6305207

 

"The number of children being hospitalized with Covid-19 has soared to record highs in the U.S., a worrying trend experts believe is driven by low vaccination rates and the contagious omicron variant and could be worsened by unique complications caused by the way the strain infects the lungs. "

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2022/01/06/whats-driving-record-covid-hospitalizations-among-us-kids/?sh=78b577a643c0

 

"California hospitals strained for staff and bracing for omicron uptick, including among kids"

 

https://www.capradio.org/articles/2022/01/06/california-hospitals-strained-for-staff-and-bracing-for-omicron-uptick-including-among-kids/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=Fz83KhfZKA7aeJlBStcM5fh4ESAiFKZ83XnDwdO70iM-1641538982-0-gaNycGzNCGU

 

"More suburban kids hospitalized with severe COVID-19 cases as surge breaks records: ‘We just don’t know the implications’

 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2022/1/6/22870700/illinois-coronavirus-kids-hospitalized-covid-omicron-vaccinate-record-cases

 

 

Googling and then cutting and pasting dramatic articles which may or may not be true does not convince me.

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by onthedarkside
flame comments removed

[pixelaoffy]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

did you bother to read any of the links which all referred to staffing issues? We have seen ICU popups in car parks so I think you are not correct. If so, where are your supporting links. The deniers love to make pronouncements of facts without ever providing credible and relevant links

Maybe you are thinking of just USA.  I ignore their problems.  Which are massive 

[ozimoron]

19 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

Maybe you are thinking of just USA.  I ignore their problems.  Which are massive 

No, I have posted articles from the Australian press which say the same thing. In my state the nurses union say they are teetering on the brink of collapse.

 

"We are not saying don't open the border, we are simply saying 'give us more time to get ready so that we don't have the catastrophe that we are starting to see in NSW'.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-07/wa-mask-mandate-scrapped-as-state-records-zero-covid19-cases/100743920

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jan/01/nsw-hospitals-resort-to-flying-nurses-in-from-overseas-as-staff-are-begged-to-take-extra-shifts-amid-covid-crisis

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jan/01/nsw-hospitals-resort-to-flying-nurses-in-from-overseas-as-staff-are-begged-to-take-extra-shifts-amid-covid-crisis

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-07/health-staff-shortage-queensland-covid-testing-vaxx-clinics/100744028

Edited January 7, 2022 by ozimoron

[Leaver]

23 hours ago, ozimoron said:

No, I have posted articles from the Australian press which say the same thing. In my state the nurses union say they are teetering on the brink of collapse.

They should never have let in Novak Djokovic.  He is solely to blame.  ????  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:58 PM, ozimoron said:

"We are not saying don't open the border, we are simply saying 'give us more time to get ready so that we don't have the catastrophe that we are starting to see in NSW'.

They've had at least 18 months to "get ready". How much time is enough?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:58 PM, ozimoron said:

No, I have posted articles from the Australian press which say the same thing. In my state the nurses union say they are teetering on the brink of collapse.

 

"We are not saying don't open the border, we are simply saying 'give us more time to get ready so that we don't have the catastrophe that we are starting to see in NSW'.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-07/wa-mask-mandate-scrapped-as-state-records-zero-covid19-cases/100743920

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jan/01/nsw-hospitals-resort-to-flying-nurses-in-from-overseas-as-staff-are-begged-to-take-extra-shifts-amid-covid-crisis

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jan/01/nsw-hospitals-resort-to-flying-nurses-in-from-overseas-as-staff-are-begged-to-take-extra-shifts-amid-covid-crisis

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-07/health-staff-shortage-queensland-covid-testing-vaxx-clinics/100744028

I've said before on this forum that problems with nurse numbers is down to management and government. The problems started long before covid appeared, and relate to pay and such things as endemic bullying by nurse managers. Such things as those, plus taking nurse training out of hospitals and making people pay to train, plus eliminating enrolled nurses, has made for an, IMO,  toxic environment, and people just don't want to be nurses in anywhere enough numbers any more.

I have zero regrets about leaving nursing, and I'd never recommend it to anyone I knew.

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've said before on this forum that problems with nurse numbers is down to management and government. The problems started long before covid appeared, and relate to pay and such things as endemic bullying by nurse managers. Such things as those, plus taking nurse training out of hospitals and making people pay to train, plus eliminating enrolled nurses, has made for an, IMO,  toxic environment, and people just don't want to be nurses in anywhere enough numbers any more.

I have zero regrets about leaving nursing, and I'd never recommend it to anyone I knew.

When benefits approach the wage of a job, there will be nobody seeking employment in that job.

Then you import foreigners who are prepared to work for that pay, as their home countries don't give them a free ride.

Answer ....... stop giving women free money, stop importing foreign workers.

If I could have given birth to 2 children and been given benefits/housing/child support for the rest of my life, I wouldn't have bothered working either.

 

NZ/Oz, closing the borders was never going to work.

Wonder when the governments will run out of money?

Wonder what will happen when they do run out of money?

Edited January 9, 2022 by BritManToo

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

When benefits approach the wage of a job, there will be nobody seeking employment in that job.

Then you import foreigners who are prepared to work for that pay, as their home countries don't give them a free ride.

Answer ....... stop giving women free money, stop importing foreign workers.

If I could have given birth to 2 children and been given benefits/housing/child support for the rest of my life, I wouldn't have bothered working either.

Agree.

While I was busting my hump working, an unmarried mother friend of mine had a nice house, and a better car than me. She also didn't have to work, all at taxpayer's expense.

If I ruled the world the first thing I'd stop would be paying women to have children, and certainly nothing to allow women to keep babies at taxpayer expense. Plenty of people out there want to adopt. Only exception for widows.

[ozimoron]

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They've had at least 18 months to "get ready". How much time is enough?

I'm just quoting them. I guess the answer is whatever time the experts think is appropriate. That's kind of how I roll. I don't presume to second guess experts.

[Mr Meeseeks]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Wonder when the governments will run out of money?

Wonder what will happen when they do run out of money?

They all ran out of money a long time ago.

 

They are printing money out of thin air, while debt continues to soar by trillions every month.

 

Guess what happens next?

[ivor bigun]

Just reading the UK papers it says that it has peaked ,its less severe and at least 33% of people in hospital with omicron were admited with another problem ,and thats in the Daily Mail which has been screaming we are all doomed ,for ages .

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/9/2022 at 4:01 PM, ozimoron said:

I'm just quoting them. I guess the answer is whatever time the experts think is appropriate. That's kind of how I roll. I don't presume to second guess experts.

According to a nurse I know, they've done sod all, regardless of the propaganda.

 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

According to a nurse I know, they've done sod all, regardless of the propaganda.

 

ah, the old anecdotal evidence vs propaganda argument lol ????

 

On the other side we have thousands of nurses (the union) that you don't know.

Edited January 12, 2022 by ozimoron

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/9/2022 at 3:33 PM, BritManToo said:

Wonder when the governments will run out of money?

Wonder what will happen when they do run out of money?

Governments, since Nixon can't run out of paper with money printed on it. They can apparently invent it out of nothing. "Small problem" of inflation may result though.

 

 

https://www.barrons.com/articles/gold-standard-dollar-dominance-bretton-woods-51628890861

President Richard Nixon announced a bold economic plan, including the severing of the U.S. dollar’s ties to gold.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, ozimoron said:

ah, the old anecdotal evidence vs propaganda argument lol ????

I'll take her word over yours. She actually works in a hospital and you...........................................?

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'll take her word over yours. She actually works in a hospital and you...........................................?

Not my words, I quoted one of many dozens of news articles I have seen claiming that hospital staff are under extreme pressure. I have posted a number of them.

 

not only nurses, this from today's press

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-12/queensland-paramedics-criticise-leadership-over-covid/100751232

 

Deputy Premier James Merlino said the state’s healthcare system is strained, with around 6,600 workers off duty after testing positive or coming into close contact with a positive case.

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-01-11/australias-new-south-wales-sets-new-high-for-covid-deaths

Edited January 12, 2022 by ozimoron

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Not my words, I quoted one of many dozens of news articles I have seen claiming that hospital staff are under extreme pressure. I have posted a number of them.

I was talking about lack of preparation for the coming storm, not whether staff are under extreme pressure, but the apparent reality of them being under extreme pressure would support my contention that not enough was done to prepare.

They have had at least 18 months to recruit more staff and train them- did they do so?

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was talking about lack of preparation for the coming storm, not whether staff are under extreme pressure, but the apparent reality of them being under extreme pressure would support my contention that not enough was done to prepare.

They have had at least 18 months to recruit more staff and train them- did they do so?

I think they did as much as they could. Can you substantiate your claim they didn't? Also there wasn't an ultra contagious strain like omicron around until recently.

 

Here's an indication of the extent to which they did attempt to prepare fro a surge in cases.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33217641/

Edited January 12, 2022 by ozimoron

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

ah, the old anecdotal evidence vs propaganda argument lol ????

 

On the other side we have thousands of nurses (the union) that you don't know.

I can't post my opinion of nursing unions without being suspended for it, it's so bad. That is the people that run the unions, not the actual workers. IMO they are the reason nurses have been paid a pittance for decades.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

I think they did as much as they could. Can you substantiate your claim they didn't? Also there wasn't an ultra contagious strain like omicron around until recently.

My substantiation would be that the staff are under extreme pressure. Had the proper preparation been made they would not be, IMO.

They could have recruited more staff and trained them by now- obviously they didn't.

It was their job to anticipate more contagious strains and prepare- they didn't and they didn't, IMO.

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

My substantiation would be that the staff are under extreme pressure. Had the proper preparation been made they would not be, IMO.

They could have recruited more staff and trained them by now- obviously they didn't.

It was their job to anticipate more contagious strains and prepare- they didn't and they didn't, IMO.

If they were allowing final year nursing students to work in hospitals I think that disproves your theory that they weren't doing as much as they could. Last I heard it takes several years to train a nurse. How long has covid been around? It is ridiculous to imagine that they could have predicted and planned for an imminent 100 year pandemic.

 

Your poster boy Trump actually cancelled an Obama initiative which was a pandemic planning agency in the US.

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response

Edited January 12, 2022 by ozimoron