ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[ExpatOilWorker]

17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You are turning into Transman again

We should all aspire to reach his level of knowledge and wisdom. With some effort,  even you might get there one day.

[JBChiangRai]

48 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

We should all aspire to reach his level of knowledge and wisdom. With some effort,  even you might get there one day.

 

That is truly worrying, take me out and shoot me first please.

[UWEB]

6 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

MG are afraid of publicly posting the lifetime battery warranty?

Why is it so hard for you EV "experts" to obtain and share it?

https://www.mgcars.com/en/NewsActivities/Detail/MG-Lifetime-Battery-Warranty

 

May be that helps to understand.

[ExpatOilWorker]

23 minutes ago, UWEB said:

https://www.mgcars.com/en/NewsActivities/Detail/MG-Lifetime-Battery-Warranty

 

May be that helps to understand.

Thanks, but that link has been shared before.

Lots of sales bravado and very thin on terms and conditions. 

They go from Life-time warranty to full-fledged warranty and finish of with extended Lifetime Warranty.

 

How many years is lifetime?

At what SOH?

Milage limitations?

 

With our EV gurus earth shattering high IQ, surely you can answer a few simple questions.....right?

[UWEB]

11 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Thanks, but that link has been shared before.

Lots of sales bravado and very thin on terms and conditions. 

They go from Life-time warranty to full-fledged warranty and finish of with extended Lifetime Warranty.

 

How many years is lifetime?

At what SOH?

Milage limitations?

 

With our EV gurus earth shattering high IQ, surely you can answer a few simple questions.....right?

Lifetime warranty for the Battery is as long the original Car where the Battery was build in exist

 

Mileage Limitation clearly mentioned in the Article, there is no Mileage limitation

 

Not sure what I have to understand under SOH?

 

Attached another Information from Autolife Thailand, feel so free to translate the part in Thai by yourself.

https://autolifethailand-tv.translate.goog/mg-thailand-battery-lifetime-warranty/?_x_tr_sl=th&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 minutes ago, UWEB said:

Lifetime warranty for the Battery is as long the original Car where the Battery was build in exist

 

Mileage Limitation clearly mentioned in the Article, there is no Mileage limitation

 

Not sure what I have to understand under SOH?

 

Attached another Information from Autolife Thailand, feel so free to translate the part in Thai by yourself.

https://autolifethailand-tv.translate.goog/mg-thailand-battery-lifetime-warranty/?_x_tr_sl=th&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

SOH is how much of the original charging capacity the battery retains after xyz cycles. @Pib is the expert. 

 

I sincerely doubt it is as long as the car exist. No Battery will last 30, 40, 50 years and surely MG is well aware of this.

The devil 😈 is in the details. Show us the legal term and conditions, not an unreliable news article.

[UWEB]

14 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

SOH is how much of the original charging capacity the battery retains after xyz cycles. @Pib is the expert. 

 

I sincerely doubt it is as long as the car exist. No Battery will last 30, 40, 50 years and surely MG is well aware of this.

The devil 😈 is in the details. Show us the legal term and conditions, not an unreliable news article.

Which Car will last 30-50 years? I guess you are just like to raise Questions but you don't like to get answers. The Article includes an official MG Statement in Thai about T&C. But may be you are not capable to understand?

[ExpatOilWorker]

24 minutes ago, UWEB said:

Lifetime warranty for the Battery is as long the original Car where the Battery was build in exist

 

Mileage Limitation clearly mentioned in the Article, there is no Mileage limitation

 

Not sure what I have to understand under SOH?

 

Attached another Information from Autolife Thailand, feel so free to translate the part in Thai by yourself.

https://autolifethailand-tv.translate.goog/mg-thailand-battery-lifetime-warranty/?_x_tr_sl=th&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Since all our "experts" are like deers 🦌 in headlights each time the MG lifetime warranty is mentioned, I will chip in.

 

Apparently, not even MG knows the answer to the SOH question 🙄. 

 

The new guarantee is currently only available in Thailand and relates to four models – the MG4, MG Cyberster, and MG MAXUS 7 and 9. There’s no statement about the minimum capacity required below which replacement is mandated, and MG hasn’t said when or if the warranty will be rolled out into other regions.

[In the jungle]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If we drive our 20k kms a year locally, and charge as we normally do using excess solar, that saves us 419,200 baht over the 8 yr warranty period.  52.4K baht a year, ICEV vs EV petrol cost alone.

 

Or to put it another way, it will cost the ICEV owner, 419,200 baht to drive 20k kms over 8 years, plus 15 oil changes, and a few full tune-up.

 

And NO ... batteries don't need to be replaced after 8 yrs, and will last 500k-1M kms, at least.

 

A new EV troll, lovely .... Thanks for the chuckle.

Have a nice day.

 

 

"And NO ... batteries don't need to be replaced after 8 yrs, and will last 500k-1M kms, at least."

 

Do you have a source for that claim?

[Fruit Trader]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Lots of sales bravado and very thin on terms and conditions. 

 

So far my attempts to obtain details from dealers for a family member has provided inconsistent answers and copious quantities of verbal diarrhea.

 

From what I have collected to date, the MG lifetime warranty appears to be a black hole based on how MG evaluates vehicle use, possibly using data collected at each service.

 

One dealer said I could own the vehicle for 15 years and continue to be covered by battery and motor warranty if conditions of use were met. He could not provide detail for this scenario. 

 

I await copy of terms and conditions from the MG mothership but wont be holding my breath.

[KhunLA]

24 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

"And NO ... batteries don't need to be replaced after 8 yrs, and will last 500k-1M kms, at least."

 

Do you have a source for that claim?

Seriously ... ask EOW, as I'm sure he saved a copy of the, oh, I don't know, 20+ times that I posted it.

 

HINT .... GOOGLE ... You might even search 'this topic' as probably posted 5X here.

 

There you go ... 1.4k posts, and don't know how to use the search function, or google.

 

EDIT: Alzheimer Alert: you actually quoted the exact info you are asking me for.

 

... And 500k to 1M kms, some folks think that's conservative, based on 2500 cycles for LFP chemistry.   I like to deal in the negative, so don't quote  5k - 10k cycles.   Yea, that many.

Edited August 24 by KhunLA

[In the jungle]

17 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Seriously ... ask EOW, as I'm sure he saved a copy of the, oh, I don't know, 20+ times that I posted it.

 

HINT .... GOOGLE ... You might even search 'this topic' as probably posted 5X here.

 

There you go ... 1.4k posts, and don't know how to use the search function, or google.

 

EDIT: Alzheimer Alert: you actually quoted the exact info you are asking me for.

 

... And 500k to 1M kms, some folks think that's conservative, based on 2500 cycles for LFP chemistry.   I like to deal in the negative, so don't quote  5k - 10k cycles.   Yea, that many.

 

No I have never quoted the info I am asking you for.

 

You seem to be the one that is confused.

 

He who asserts shall prove.  You made the claim.

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

 

No I have never quoted the info I am asking you for.

 

You seem to be the one that is confused.

 

He who asserts shall prove.  You made the claim.

You really need to learn how to use the forum ... click on the below quote:

 

... "EDIT: Alzheimer Alert: you actually quoted the exact info you are asking me for."

 

Then click on 'expand' in the first quote of mine, that you quoted

 

"He who asserts shall prove.  You made the claim."

I did already, now twice ... 😎

Edited August 24 by KhunLA

[In the jungle]

15 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You really need to learn how to use the forum ... click on the below quote:

 

... "EDIT: Alzheimer Alert: you actually quoted the exact info you are asking me for."

 

Then click on 'expand' in the first quote of mine, that you quoted

 

"He who asserts shall prove.  You made the claim."

I did already, now twice ... 😎

 

So the source is you just made it up.

[JBChiangRai]

Let me explain the lifetime battery warranty to you, 

 

in one word,

 

ADEQUATE.

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

 

So the source is you just made it up.

OMG ... think you got some issues you need to work out  

 

You really think I created that chart & info on it ? 

Not saying I couldn't, but definitely saying I wouldn't as could care less if you EV & CH haters believe me or not.  

 

I just post in case someone does have a real interest in EVs, so they aren't dissuaded by all the silliness you trolls post.

 

I'm pretty sure I posted the source of the research/testing somewhere on this forum.

 

here you go, different source stating 3000 cycles w/link;

 

another, 10k cycles, w/link:

 

Edited August 24 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

OMG ... think you got some issues you need to work out  

 

You really think I created that chart & info on it ? 

Not saying I couldn't, but definitely saying I wouldn't as could care less if you EV & CH haters believe me or not.  

 

I just post in case someone does have a real interest in EVs, so they aren't dissuaded by all the silliness you trolls post.

 

I'm pretty sure I posted the source of the research/testing somewhere on this forum.

 

You did, I recall it, tests were done on Tesla batteries.

[radiochaser]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Thanks, but that link has been shared before.

Lots of sales bravado and very thin on terms and conditions. 

They go from Life-time warranty to full-fledged warranty and finish of with extended Lifetime Warranty.

 

How many years is lifetime?

At what SOH?

Milage limitations?

 

With our EV gurus earth shattering high IQ, surely you can answer a few simple questions.....right?

Off the subject of electric vehicles and their warranties, to the MOPAR "Lifetime Warranty" for my 2011 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie pickup truck but possibly related to the MG "Lifetime Warranty", which brings up a question.    

 

When I read the "Lifetime Warranty" information for my Ram 1500, I found that "Lifetime" was defined as, (paraphrased) covering warranty repairs until the repair costs more than the market value of the vehicle.  

 

It was however a good investment.  For just under $3000.00 for the "Lifetime Warranty" in 2014 when I purchased the truck, the warranty has covered between $12,000.00 and $15,000.00 in warranty repairs, which includes replacement of the 5.7 Ltr. Hemi engine, which would have cost over $8,000.00 in 2020.   The dealer service center does charge me a 1 hour diagnostic fee however. 
 

I did find out that MOPAR stopped selling their vehicle "Lifetime Warranty" three or four months after I purchased mine.  I wonder why?  LOL 

 

So the question is, how does MG define "Lifetime"?

Edited August 24 by radiochaser

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Seriously ... ask EOW, as I'm sure he saved a copy of the, oh, I don't know, 20+ times that I posted it.

 

HINT .... GOOGLE ... You might even search 'this topic' as probably posted 5X here.

 

There you go ... 1.4k posts, and don't know how to use the search function, or google.

 

EDIT: Alzheimer Alert: you actually quoted the exact info you are asking me for.

 

... And 500k to 1M kms, some folks think that's conservative, based on 2500 cycles for LFP chemistry.   I like to deal in the negative, so don't quote  5k - 10k cycles.   Yea, that many.

The million miles Tesla S did have a few pitstops. 

 

rear motor unit on this one has been replaced a whopping 13 times (an average of 84,285 miles per motor including the current one, though we hope reliability has improved in recent years). The battery pack has fared much better, only being replaced three times so far, for an average of around 300,000 miles per pack, which seems pretty solid.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/heres-a-million-mile-tesla-model-s-owners-advice-for-ev-reliability/

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

23 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Let me explain the lifetime battery warranty to you, 

 

in one word,

 

ADEQUATE.

Adequate is EV code for fact avoidance. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

So far my attempts to obtain details from dealers for a family member has provided inconsistent answers and copious quantities of verbal diarrhea.

 

From what I have collected to date, the MG lifetime warranty appears to be a black hole based on how MG evaluates vehicle use, possibly using data collected at each service.

 

One dealer said I could own the vehicle for 15 years and continue to be covered by battery and motor warranty if conditions of use were met. He could not provide detail for this scenario. 

 

I await copy of terms and conditions from the MG mothership but wont be holding my breath.

Finally a serious answer and some good ground work at squeezing information out of MG.

We will let this black ⚫️ hole rest for now, but please keep us posted if you obtain some documentation in writing.

[In the jungle]

22 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

OMG ... think you got some issues you need to work out  

 

You really think I created that chart & info on it ? 

Not saying I couldn't, but definitely saying I wouldn't as could care less if you EV & CH haters believe me or not.  

 

I just post in case someone does have a real interest in EVs, so they aren't dissuaded by all the silliness you trolls post.

 

I'm pretty sure I posted the source of the research/testing somewhere on this forum.

 

here you go, different source stating 3000 cycles w/link;

 

another, 10k cycles, w/link:

 

 

Future Management Group AG are a business consultancy funded by the automotive industry.

[ExpatOilWorker]

14 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

When I read the "Lifetime Warranty" information for my Ram 1500, I found that "Lifetime" was defined as, (paraphrased) covering warranty repairs until the repair costs more than the market value of the vehicle.  

That is very clever and reasonable wording. Could be similar for MG and the market value for a 10 years old MG is probably measured in a few cafe lattes ☕️ ☕️. 

[radiochaser]

9 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

That is very clever and reasonable wording. Could be similar for MG and the market value for a 10 years old MG is probably measured in a few cafe lattes ☕️ ☕️. 

I would not know.  I don't drink lattes.   

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

I would not know.  I don't drink lattes.   

Of course not, you drive a Dodge Ram with a real engine.

The MG owner will be a latte kind of "guy".

[In the jungle]

13 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

That is very clever and reasonable wording. Could be similar for MG and the market value for a 10 years old MG is probably measured in a few cafe lattes ☕️ ☕️. 

 

Or it could be that they have found an insurance company to assume the risk subject to a long list of exclusions which would almost invariably be invoked.

 

 

[radiochaser]

4 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Of course not, you drive a Dodge Ram with a real engine.

The MG owner will be a latte kind of "guy".

I drink mochas.  Does that count? 

[radiochaser]

3 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

 

Or it could be that they have found an insurance company to assume the risk subject to a long list of exclusions which would almost invariably be invoked.

 

 

The lifetime warranty for the MG, from what little I read in this thread, applies to the battery.   I am assuming that there is also warranty coverage for the rest of the vehicle that mimics what mine is, or was, which does not cover what I call expendables, i.e., tires, brakes, shocks, tires, etc., parts that normally wear out within an expected time period, for which the owner is responsible for replacement costs.    

 

I was caught by surprise when the radio in my truck started giving up its ghost.  The radio is an important part of the vehicle because it is part computer and controls a variety of different functions of the vehicle, it even had a 10 Gb hard drive (20 Gb after replacement).   The Lifetime Warranty did not cover replacement cost for the radio.   A new replacement radio was quoted as $2000.00!   I paid for a rebuilt one which cost me $900.00.   I think there is a separate computer system that controls the engine functions, I am not sure.  I am an old car mechanic type person who does not know how to work on modern vehicles.   

 

Only a studious MG EV owner who has read and understood his/her warranty would know or may know what might be covered by the new car warranty for the vehicle.  

[KhunLA]

47 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

 

Future Management Group AG are a business consultancy funded by the automotive industry.

Let's go real life, after 14 months, and 22.5k kms, battery degradation of our BEV was ~0.6 %.

 

0.6 % X 10  =  6 % X 2 = 12 % means still have 88 % capacity left after 

22.5k kms X 10 = 225,000 kms  X 2 = 450,000 kms driven

14 months X 10 = 140 months =  11.66 yrs X 2 = 23.33 years owned

 

Oh yea, today's petrol price & savings, using solar = 1.2+M baht saved over those 23+ yrs.

If using PEA, savings still about 980k +/- baht, I think

 

How many kms per liter do you get, and what will that cost you in 225k kms/11.66 years ?   That we won't pay, if all driving is local, and use excess solar at the house.

Edited August 24 by KhunLA

[ExpatOilWorker]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Let's go real life, after 14 months, and 22.5k kms, battery degradation of our BEV was ~0.6 %.

 

0.6 % X 10  =  6 % X 2 = 12 % means still have 88 % capacity left after 

22.5k kms X 10 = 225,000 kms  X 2 = 450,000 kms driven

14 months X 10 = 140 months =  11.66 yrs X 2 = 23.33 years owned

 

Oh yea, today's petrol price & savings, using solar = 1.2+M baht saved over those 23+ yrs.

If using PEA, savings still about 980k +/- baht, I think

 

How many kms per liter do you get, and what will that cost you in 225k kms/11.66 years ?   That we won't pay, if all driving is local, and use excess solar at the house.

Your mind works in mysterious ways.

Why multiply by 10, then by 2?

Why not just multiply by 20?