Boosters Could Weaken Immune System

[Chomper Higgot]

42 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

You might be right. I hope you’re right. Only time will tell. 

Last spring, when the vaccines first arrived on the scene, I was called a conspiracy theorist and more when I said that it wouldn’t end at 2 jabs.  
“Why would you think that?”, they said. “The studies all show that the vaccines are 90-something percent effective at blah blah blah”. 

 

They’re already talking about the next generation of vaccines that will be tweaked for the new variants. Do you think those ones will be optional for people like me who have already had covid, and lived to tell the tale?

What was it you said earlier?:

 

“No, I can’t provide a link, it’s just my own pessimistic prediction,“

 

However, you could look at the past history of pandemics and observe the fact that they eventually disappear as the virus that caused them mutates until it eventually ceases to be a public health treat and/or disappears.

 

But of course that would not fit your predilection to ‘pessimistic prediction’ and certainly undermines your ‘endless booster’ doom

mongering.

[Ryan754326]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What was it you said earlier?:

 

“No, I can’t provide a link, it’s just my own pessimistic prediction,“

 

However, you could look at the past history of pandemics and observe the fact that they eventually disappear as the virus that caused them mutates until it eventually ceases to be a public health treat and/or disappears.

 

But of course that would not fit your predilection to ‘pessimistic prediction’ and certainly undermines your ‘endless booster’ doom

mongering.

I don’t know what to tell you. All of my pessimistic predictions have come true so far, and most of the optimistic ones that were being made by others when the vaccines first arrived have now been proven to be wrong. 

 

I’m not saying the vaccines don’t work, but they aren’t going to return us to normal. I suspect, like you, that nature will eventually take care of that. What I’m skeptical about, is whether politicians and the media will allow the hype to die down once the disease itself has. 
 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

22 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

If we’re even having to discuss a fourth shot, then why would anyone think it will stop with four? 

Because of the possibility, mentioned in the article I referenced earlier, that repeated boosters against the same original SARS-CoV-2 strain may prove to be progressively less useful, the more often you give them.

 

For instance, in a different article, Dr Marion Pepper of Washington University said she doesn’t think there is limitless benefit from boosting again and again, using the same vaccines, stating as follows:

 

Quote

"But for the large majority you end up hitting a set point of memory that doesn’t just keep getting bigger every single time you get the same boost."

[...]

"I think there is a misconception that the immune system can constantly be repetitively elevated such that you don’t go back to that same starting point”

Will we always need Covid-19 boosters?

 

Please note that she is talking here about giving boosters of the same vaccines we are using now, designed for the "ancestral" strain of Covid. If you're talking about using newly developed vaccines, specifically designed for newer variants then the equation changes slightly.

Edited January 14, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I think you're missing the pro-vax agenda a little.

If you weren't vaccinated, caught COVID and survived with no worse than a cold, you narrowly escaped death (or didn't have COVID in the first place).

If you were vaccinated, caught COVID and survived with no worse than a cold, the vaccine saved you from death.

 

The frightened sheep will never accept COVID is relatively harmless for most people.

They will also never accept that the vaccine is ineffective, you just need more boosters.

Until it's "relatively" (relative to what) harmless to all people we have no business ignoring it. You are still spreading the debunked "vaccines are ineffective" LIE.

Edited January 14, 2022 by ozimoron

[Chomper Higgot]

31 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

I don’t know what to tell you. All of my pessimistic predictions have come true so far, and most of the optimistic ones that were being made by others when the vaccines first arrived have now been proven to be wrong. 

 

I’m not saying the vaccines don’t work, but they aren’t going to return us to normal. I suspect, like you, that nature will eventually take care of that. What I’m skeptical about, is whether politicians and the media will allow the hype to die down once the disease itself has. 
 

 

In the meantime vaccines have saved countless people from serious illness, hospitalization and death and too the immense related impacts of misery, grief and healthcare costs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ryan754326]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

In the meantime vaccines have saved countless people from serious illness, hospitalization and death and too the immense related impacts of misery, grief and healthcare costs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never said they didn’t. What I’m saying is that they haven’t changed anything in terms of us being able to live and work like normal humans, and I don’t see any reason to believe that a third or fourth jab will change that. 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Ryan754326

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

I never said they didn’t. What I’m saying is that they haven’t changed anything in terms of us being able to live and work like normal humans, and I don’t see any reason to believe that a third or fourth jab will change that. 

 

 

 

Nonsense, vaccination has freed millions of people to be able to return living a more normal life, has enabled businesses to re-open, facilitated travel, protected people in vital service jobs and massively reduced the load on health services.

 

Let alone the countless lives vaccines have saved.

 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

What I’m skeptical about, is whether politicians and the media will allow the hype to die down once the disease itself has. 

I think this is a valid concern.....  

 

At some point we may find ourselves in a situation whereby covid is ‘cyclic’ i.e. it comes and goes as does the cold and influenza - will we still be tested for it and face shutdowns and travel limitations ?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think this is a valid concern.....  

 

At some point we may find ourselves in a situation whereby covid is ‘cyclic’ i.e. it comes and goes as does the cold and influenza - will we still be tested for it and face shutdowns and travel limitations ?

 

 

We already see governments acting to reduce precautions with the Omicron variant, arguing it is a virus with less serious outcomes.

 

The idea that governments wish to impose public health precautions for any other reason than the virus being a threat to public health is an ‘Anti-Vaxxer/Anti-Public Health measures’ conspiracy theory.

 

The public health precautions will disappear when the virus is no longer a threat to public health.

 

 

[Bangel72]

Drinking alcohol can weaken your ability to get drunk.????    Technically true but also BS most friday nights.

[roger101]

Misleading headline. It should read

Multiple  Boosters Could Weaken Immune System.

[Ryan754326]

53 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

 

The idea that governments wish to impose public health precautions for any other reason than the virus being a threat to public health is an ‘Anti-Vaxxer/Anti-Public Health measures’ conspiracy theory.

 

 

 

 

Looks like I’m not the only one who’s pessimistic. 
 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/12/7/never-ending-pandemic-asias-omicron-response-points-to-jjj

Edited January 14, 2022 by Ryan754326

[teatree]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Until it's "relatively" (relative to what) harmless to all people we have no business ignoring it. You are still spreading the debunked "vaccines are ineffective" LIE.

How can a vaccine be considered effective if it does not provoke an immune response?  

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, teatree said:

How can a vaccine be considered effective if it does not provoke an immune response?  

You need to ask yourself these questions.

 

1. Does the vaccine reduce serious illness and death?

 

2. Does the vaccine reduce infections?

 

If tour answer to either if these questions is yes then you have your answer. If your answer is no to either then you are wrong.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

27 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Looks like I’m not the only one who’s pessimistic. 
 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/12/7/never-ending-pandemic-asias-omicron-response-points-to-jjj

I did say you were the only one, bad news (in your linked case ‘bad news opinion’) sells.

 

 

[Ryan754326]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nonsense, vaccination has freed millions of people to be able to return living a more normal life 

 

It seems like the only people who consider this a return to living a more normal life are the people who didn’t have a life in the first place. 
 

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Ryan754326 said:

It seems like the only people who consider this a return to living a more normal life are the people who didn’t have a life in the first place. 
 

 

Imagine how much worse it would have been without the vaccines. Oh wait, we don't need to imagine. We should remember the scenes from Italy and Spain in the early days.

Edited January 14, 2022 by ozimoron

[Ryan754326]

18 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Imagine how much worse it would have been without the vaccines. Oh wait, we don't need to imagine. We should remember the scenes from Italy and Spain in the early days.

Why do all you guys respond to me as if I’m an anti-vaxxer? I’ve had the vaccine. I believe they do a fine job of preventing unnecessary death and serious symptoms, and now that they’ve been readily available to anyone who wants them for nearly a year (at least where I live) I think it’s time to let people make their choice and move on with life. 

Those who can’t accept that life has become a little more dangerous, or who don’t have enough faith in their vaccinations to protect them, should be the ones who stay locked in their homes, if that’s what they think they need to do. 
 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Ryan754326

[ozimoron]

11 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Why do all you guys respond to me as if I’m an anti-vaxxer? I’ve had the vaccine. I believe they do a fine job of preventing unnecessary death and serious symptoms, and now that they’ve been readily available to anyone who wants them for nearly a year (at least where I live) I think it’s time to let people make their choice and move on with life. 

Those who can’t accept that life has become a little more dangerous, or who don’t have enough faith in their vaccinations to protect them, should be the ones who stay locked in their homes, if that’s what they think they need to do. 

I'm not opposed to opening up or even ditching the masks. The issue for me is timing. Like, when the hospitals are not overwhelmed and cancelling elective surgery and when most of the kids are vaccinated. And when cases are falling along with those other points. Any suggestion that it should be done now is irresponsible and premature in my opinion. I'm guided by expert opinion and all I see is medical staff complaining loudly at present.

 

It isn't a matter of those who care self isolating, it's all about protecting others who can't protect themselves. In my country we tried moving on with life and it seems to have back fired for being too premature. We don't have test kits, the hospitals are in crisis and nobody is going out spending money so the economy is in crisis. Clearly we were ill prepared for opening up. Furthermore there is no shortage of medical staff claiming that their warnings went unheeded.

 

Suggestions by the conspiracy theorists that I or like minded individuals want to see pharmaceutical companies get rich or support some kind of imaginary world order are from a parallel universe.

 

I apologise if I came across as a bit sarcastic but it seems that the anti vaxers anti lock down pundits never seem to think things through rationally and rarely to never provide links to scientific opinion to support their arguments. This annoys me. They all know their information comes from extremist and non credible sites but they blame a culture of censorship for not being able to post junk science or outright misinformation. It's not like they are unaware that it is either. They just claim their freedom of speech gives them equal time with facts and science. </rant>

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by ozimoron

[Ryan754326]

41 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I'm not opposed to opening up or even ditching the masks. The issue for me is timing. Like, when the hospitals are not overwhelmed and cancelling elective surgery and when most of the kids are vaccinated. And when cases are falling along with those other points. 

 

 

 

I can see where you’re coming from, and I’d like to agree, but I see a problem here. 
I live in Canada, and for as long as I can remember, the hospitals here have been swamped at some point during every flu season. If they couldn’t keep up before covid, I don’t see how they ever expect to be able to keep up now that covid is most likely here to stay.
I don’t have any suggestions on how to solve this problem, but if hospitals being overwhelmed is now reason enough to keep society in a perpetual state of rolling lockdowns, then it looks like we will be in the same mess every winter, for the foreseeable future. 
 

vaccines are helping to keep people alive, but we are in worse shape now in terms of hospitals being overwhelmed than we ever were before vaccines were available. I don’t see any number of vaccinations solving this problem, which seems to be the biggest hurdle to properly opening things up. 
 

Going by what I read about the severity of omicron, it appears that if it weren’t for all of the hype and paranoia surrounding covid, a good portion of those infected would be sitting at home taking a few days off, rather than running to a hospital and taking up resources. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Ryan754326

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

I can see where you’re coming from, and I’d like to agree, but I see a problem here. 
I live in Canada, and for as long as I can remember, the the hospitals here have been swamped at some point during every flu season. If they couldn’t keep up before covid, I don’t see how they ever expect to be able to keep up now that covid is most likely here to stay.
I don’t have any suggestions on how to solve this problem, but if hospitals being overwhelmed is now reason enough to keep society in a perpetual state of rolling lockdowns, then it looks like we will be in the same mess every winter for the foreseeable future. 
 

vaccines are helping to keep people alive, but we are in worse shape now in terms of hospitals being overwhelmed than we ever were before vaccines were available. I don’t see any number of vaccinations solving this problem, which seems to be the biggest hurdle to properly opening things up. 

I think the degree of swamped is the nuanced issue here. The hospitals may be "swamped" during flue season but I don't see articles every single day saying they are in crisis, stories about the national guard being called in to help, paramedics unable to respond and elective surgery being cancelled indefinitely. You can't just suggest that the ordinary run of the mill problems we see every year are comparable to what we have now. I see stories from medical staff which describe extreme stress and heartbreak at what they are experiencing.

Again, I wholeheartedly endorse opening up and dumping the masks but at the right time. Vaccination rates and medical experts will determine that time.

 

Meantime, we still see that a disproportionate number of people in ICU and dying are unvaccinated. That has to change.

Edited January 14, 2022 by ozimoron

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

 

vaccines are helping to keep people alive, but we are in worse shape now in terms of hospitals being overwhelmed than we ever were before vaccines were available. I don’t see any number of vaccinations solving this problem, which seems to be the biggest hurdle to properly opening things up. 

Nonsense. Deaths were much higher back then. Where do you think all those people were dying? In their living rooms?

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, teatree said:

How can a vaccine be considered effective if it does not provoke an immune response?  

What vaccine are you referring to? All of them I'm aware of, including the Chinese vaccines, do provoke immune responses.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

I can see where you’re coming from, and I’d like to agree, but I see a problem here. 
I live in Canada, and for as long as I can remember, the hospitals here have been swamped at some point during every flu season. If they couldn’t keep up before covid, I don’t see how they ever expect to be able to keep up now that covid is most likely here to stay.
I don’t have any suggestions on how to solve this problem, but if hospitals being overwhelmed is now reason enough to keep society in a perpetual state of rolling lockdowns, then it looks like we will be in the same mess every winter, for the foreseeable future. 
 

vaccines are helping to keep people alive, but we are in worse shape now in terms of hospitals being overwhelmed than we ever were before vaccines were available. I don’t see any number of vaccinations solving this problem, which seems to be the biggest hurdle to properly opening things up. 
 

Going by what I read about the severity of omicron, it appears that if it weren’t for all of the hype and paranoia surrounding covid, a good portion of those infected would be sitting at home taking a few days off, rather than running to a hospital and taking up resources. 

“vaccines are helping to keep people alive, but we are in worse shape now in terms of hospitals being overwhelmed than we ever were before vaccines were available.”

 

Because of the arrival of the very much more infectious Omicron variant, which is creating higher numbers of hospitalizations in a shorter period while at the same time infecting hospital staff and thereby causing staff shortages.

 

A solid argument against relaxing public health policies until this Omicron wave has passed.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[Virt]

8 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

I never said they didn’t. What I’m saying is that they haven’t changed anything in terms of us being able to live and work like normal humans, and I don’t see any reason to believe that a third or fourth jab will change that. 

 

 

 

Depends what country you live in.

Here in Denmark we found delta in June 21 2021 and at that time we had approx 35 % fully vaccinated. We went through the summer with little spikes and reached 70%+ vaccinated pretty fast.

The majority of infected were not vaxed.

During the start of the delta wave we had very little restrictions and we stopped all restrictions what so ever late summer 2021.

Lived like normal.

All because we got vaccinated.

 

That was the delta period when we didn't have boosters or omicron.

 

Then winter came and a mix of vaccines starting to fade, delta, winter and omicron made our number go through the roof, and we still have very high numbers compared to the delta.

So now we have some restrictions again, but government will start easing some on Monday.

 

The boosters amongst the elderly population helped them, and the docs says it's rare to see tripled vaxed people in the ICU.

It's mostly immune compromised elderly and unvaxed people that end up in ICU.

 

So lighten up.

In a few months many countries will have dropped their restrictions because the boosters do what they are supposed to do.

Not to prevent you from getting omicron, but keeping you away from hospital in most cases.

 

I think we will see countries move towards using vaccines for elderly and weak, and for those that want a shot just for safety.

 

Personally i plan to get a fresh shot before winter 2022 just in case.

Just had my booster last week and i don't think i will need anymore before winter 2022.

If i have to get a single shot each year i can live with that.

 

And i will finish this with 2 pictures that i took while the Delta wave were roaming here in Denmark July 7 2021.

We were able to do this because the vaccines did their job plus the summer helped as well 

I know this is about boosters, but it just shows that we are able to live with this virus if we want to.

 

And we will once again so cheer up.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because of the arrival of the very much more infectious Omicron variant, which is creating higher numbers of hospitalizations in a shorter period while at the same time infecting hospital staff and thereby causing staff shortages.

 

A solid argument against relaxing public health policies until this Omicron wave has passed.

 

 

As you were saying... from Johns Hopkins Jan. 13 COVID update:

 

"COVID-19 hospitalizations in the US set a record high this week, passing the previous record of 16,497 new hospitalizations per day (January 8, 2021). The 7-day average as of January 10 is 20,269. The CDC is also reporting a surge in the number of current hospitalizations, up from an average of 91,030 hospitalized COVID-19 patients on January 3 to 124,163 on January 10, an increase of 36.4% over that period.

 

"The current average is slightly above the previous record high—124,031 on January 11, 2021. Daily mortality is increasing, and the surge in hospitalizations is placing severe strain on health systems nationwide, which could contribute to increased mortality for COVID-19 patients as well as those seeking care for other conditions."

 

And also, in the irony award category considering that many Republican/conservative leaning law enforcement unions have opposed COVID vaccination requirements in the U.S.:

 

"For the second year in a row, COVID-19 was the leading cause of death among US law enforcement officers. According to preliminary data from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 458 local, state, tribal, and federal officers died in the line of duty in 2021, a 55% increase over 2020 and the highest total since 1930. Of those deaths, 301 were related to COVID-19, with the virus reportedly contracted in the line of duty."

 

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/resources/COVID-19/COVID-19-SituationReports.html