Reflections on the Covid-19 pandemic

[snoop1130]

 

I would be hard pressed to find a single person in Thailand that has not been affected by the Covid-19 pandemic in some way, shape or form. It has been a really wild quadruple corkscrew rollercoaster ride that is now slowly, mercifully, coming to a gradual end.

 

But what about the long historical view of the pandemic? There is an old Chinese curse: “May you live in an important age!” There is no question that we are definitely living in an important age. All of us are seeing major, historical, even wrenching, changes. Many institutions, businesses, interpersonal relationships, supply distribution systems and organisations are going through tremendous, even earth shattering, alterations. Some of them will not survive. With every major pandemic throughout human history all have brought about profound changes to all the civilisations it touched. This current pandemic is no different. A brief review of previous major pandemics is warranted to see where we are all going next:

 

Actually the first major power change occurred during a typhoid fever epidemic in ancient Athens during the Peloponnesian War. Athens held absolute power over the whole of Greece and region for centuries. The epidemic decimated the population plus the Athenian army. Athens lost the war and never regained regional dominance.

 

In ancient Rome, the Antonine Plague (165-180 A.D.) killed millions of people with a high mortality rate. Many historians believe this significant loss of population greatly weakened Roman power. It allowed non-Romans into the empire as citizens to replace population losses, leading to its eventual decline.

 

The longest and most devastating pandemic was the Plague of Justinian(541-588 A.D.). The outbreak hammered the Byzantine Empire. Perhaps 50 million people died. It broke the power of the ancient pagan religions as many sought religious solace elsewhere. They found this in Christianity soon becoming the completely dominant religion in Europe.

 

Full Story: https://expatlifeinthailand.com/lifestyle/reflections-on-the-covid-19-pandemic/

 

-- © Copyright Expat Life in Thailand 2022-01-18

 

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[Scott]

Well, at a very minimum, we did learn who is important and who we need to keep us fed, keep our internet on etc.

[klauskunkel]

11 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

There is an old Chinese curse: “May you live in an important age!”

Ironic to start "Reflections on the Covid-19 pandemic" with a Chinese curse.

[KhunLA]

"I would be hard pressed to find a single person in Thailand that has not been affected by the Covid-19 pandemic in some way.... "

 

I'm quite the opposite, except for mask and business opening rules, I don't know anyone that was affected by Covid-19 in Thailand, in a healthwise / medical way.  Or know anyone else that has been.

 

None of my friends, none of my wife's aunts, uncles, cousins, or 8 siblings' families (ages 45-70) with children & grandchildren .... not 1

 

Go figure ... ????  Kind of makes you think a wee bit different than some folks.

Edited January 19, 2022 by KhunLA

[Hummin]

A war is coming, and that is not any new historical seen. During spanish flue it was post war and pre war as well a crack down, and it was an Empire at stake. This time the Empire struggle internal as external, while a new super power is rising. Interesting times for sure. 

 

War in Europe and a War in Asia at same time could be it for us. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Hummin

[Chomper Higgot]

As I have commented before, inconveniences aside, the pandemic has provided many with opportunities they have eagerly grasped and gained from.

 

The ‘new normal’ is not the ‘old normal’ which for very many was already broken.

 

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

"I would be hard pressed to find a single person in Thailand that has not been affected by the Covid-19 pandemic in some way.... "

 

I'm quite the opposite, except for mask and business opening rules, I don't know anyone that was affected by Covid-19 in Thailand, in a healthwise / medical way.  Or know anyone else that has been.

 

None of my friends, none of my wife's aunts, uncles, cousins, or 8 siblings' families (ages 45-70) with children & grandchildren .... not 1

 

Go figure ... ????  Kind of makes you think a wee bit different than some folks.

Nothing like the testimony of an anonymous person to inspire confidence. And some, given their track record, less than others.

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

As I have commented before, inconveniences aside, the pandemic has provided many with opportunities they have eagerly grasped and gained from.

 

The ‘new normal’ is not the ‘old normal’ which for very many was already broken.

 

Like the rich get richer and the poor getting poorer? 

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/1/17/hdlthe-poor-die-from-covid-while-the-rich-get-richer-oxfam-warns

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Like the rich get richer and the poor getting poorer? 

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/1/17/hdlthe-poor-die-from-covid-while-the-rich-get-richer-oxfam-warns

Wealth disparity has certainly increased, but the pandemic did not start that process.

 

It has however brought the issue to the political forefront along with changing the discussion on the issue.

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Nothing like the testimony of an anonymous person to inspire confidence. And some, given their track record, less than others.

To my knowledge, almost every poster here is anonymous.  Including the OP & yourself.  Article from a 'for profit' site, generates money every time someone clicks on it reads.  Covid covid covid, its' everywhere for a reason ...  it's profitable.

 

Just relaying my & wife's family & friends experience.  Feel free to believe or not.  As I feel free to ignore most of your replies to me.

Edited January 19, 2022 by KhunLA

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, LA8RAT said:

The recent revelations in senate seem to give the proof. 

 

That and fauci lied under oath. 

 

On a side note I always thought it was.. 

 

"may you live in interesting times" but the meaning is quite similar

It fits your belief, dont it? Still without any proof you want it so bad to be true, that it becomes a truth. 

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

To my knowledge, almost every poster here is anonymous.  Including the OP & yourself.  Article from a 'for profit' site, generates money every time someone clicks on it reads.  Covid covid covid, its' everywhere for a reason ...  it's profitable.

 

Just relaying my & wife's family & friends experience.  Feel free to believe or not.  As I feel free to ignore most of your replies to me.

The difference between your comments and mine, of course, is that when I make an assertion, I back it up with independently verifiable sources. So the issue of anonymity is irrelevant.

Given how many Thais have been symptomatically infected with covid, your assertion is extremely unlikely to be true.

[Tropposurfer]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

A war is coming, and that is not any new historical seen. During spanish flue it was post war and pre war as well a crack down, and it was an Empire at stake. This time the Empire struggle internal as external, while a new super power is rising. Interesting times for sure. 

 

War in Europe and a War in Asia at same time could be it for us. 

I have not studied it but I would indeed be curious if as you say there is a link between worldwide plagues and wars (data which gives strong evidence) to prove such a theory/proposition.

[Hummin]

16 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

I have not studied it but I would indeed be curious if as you say there is a link between worldwide plagues and wars (data which gives strong evidence) to prove such a theory/proposition.

It is more about timing and simultaneous happenings and right now we have a "war" with China and we try to controll Russia, Iran, NK and also have our (Nato and allies) fingers in most corners of the world and also space.

 

If Nato make a move to stop Russia, it is likely China make a move against Taiwan? Iran and Israel a continuous conflict could go on to next level. However maybe not now, but if we getting a econic crack, 

 

 

 

 

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1403494821993732

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Like the rich get richer and the poor getting poorer? 

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/1/17/hdlthe-poor-die-from-covid-while-the-rich-get-richer-oxfam-warns

Indeed, the rich got even more wealthy. As the saying "it's an ill wind that blows nobody any good".

I believe big pharma has done rather well too.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

All of us are seeing major, historical, even wrenching, changes. Many institutions, businesses, interpersonal relationships, supply distribution systems and organisations are going through tremendous, even earth shattering, alterations. Some of them will not survive. With every major pandemic throughout human history all have brought about profound changes to all the civilisations it touched. This current pandemic is no different.

If it wipes out the mass tourism market that has IMO destroyed most of Thailand's nice beaches with a tsunami of concrete and beach encroachment, plus such atrocities as what happened to Maya Bay, it'll be a good thing IMO.

Time to get back to visiting our own countries and not taking a stratosphere polluting plane to where we can have drinkies by the horizon pool while getting our tootsies massaged by some exploited person.

I'm with Richard on what has happened to Thailand over the past 20 years.

[Tropposurfer]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The difference between your comments and mine, of course, is that when I make an assertion, I back it up with independently verifiable sources. So the issue of anonymity is irrelevant.

Given how many Thais have been symptomatically infected with covid, your assertion is extremely unlikely to be true.

 

47 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It fits your belief, dont it? Still without any proof you want it so bad to be true, that it becomes a truth. 

I find this rhetoric that 'Fauci lied' very interesting.

It seems to me (as a social scientist of 30 years practice - a good one at that) that folks, some folks, make an assumption that somehow when a scientist like Dr Fauci makes a statement that this statement cannot in future time be amended and indeed as a natural function of existence may need to be amended so as to align with the changing nature of a virus itself and the growth in understanding of that virus.

If previous statements are amended or the speaker is as yet unsure as the exactitude of what they are saying as verifiable data, or cannot give childish simplistic one word answers as is demanded (here we see the projections of the questioner) to complex interactive questions then this is seized upon as the interviewee is either a fool, an agent of some nefarious group or belief system, and or just plain lying. 

Such a reflexive closed-response to the answers given is of course blatantly obvious (to most -albeit lots of us push that awareness away very rapidly, especially if it does not fit with the rigid dogma thinking we hold).

We can almost predict word for word the response the interviewee will be met with (we can with amazingly accuracy speak to the feeling we witness coming from the questioner too).

The predictable pattern of doubling-down, interrupting, demanding, subtle cues and pressure exerted e.g. sarcasm, patronising, even open insults which are designed not to 'find the truth or answer the question' but to exert increasing pressure on another as a means to confuse, discombobulate, hurt (and thus elicit a self-protective response e..g anger) and when this is achieved to double down again with the demand for an answer and thus to prove the intent - the energy in the questioner the whole time i..e to discredit and to prove their own rigid hypothesis.

It is also interesting to me when, if we practice listening 'deeply' to the questions asked of people such as Dr Fauci is these questions emanate from an origin which by very design sets out not to understand and learn but to reinforce a fixed belief whatever is offered as an answer. 

In short there is no need for another to be present, as the questioner is the only the person relevant.

The interviewee has already been assigned the status of an object and as such made irrelevant and worthless.

Such a thinking and relational style is the antithesis of relationship and leads to only one place - the breakdown of any chance of resolution and growth (we would call this an impasse - and a large one at that!).

Before someone accuses me (oops ... maybe I'm projecting unnecessarily lol) of objectifying ... I am as curious about the questioner as I am about the interviewee.

I know it would be nice if it were NOT so but existence, our interaction with the universe (everything!) is complex, often ambiguous, mistrust, massive amounts of projection, shedloads of unfinished business (which we drag around), unknowing, insecurity, uncertainty, fraught with mistakes, dead-ends, loss grief fear, shame, and yes joy too.

 

[Tropposurfer]

49 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is more about timing and simultaneous happenings and right now we have a "war" with China and we try to controll Russia, Iran, NK and also have our (Nato and allies) fingers in most corners of the world and also space.

 

If Nato make a move to stop Russia, it is likely China make a move against Taiwan? Iran and Israel a continuous conflict could go on to next level. However maybe not now, but if we getting a econic crack, 

 

 

 

 

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1403494821993732

I am curious about "war with China". I am not at war with China neither is my country. The shifting of economic power in the world does not infer nor portent 'war' either militaristically or economically. I am aware of how the US has used economics and weapons to wage war and has historically assumed both the mantle of and the right to control others since its inception. The idea of us and them is not productive to humanity and needs to be dissolved.

The notions that there are 'different' races (a narrative that permeates and clouds our intertwined humanity) is also something that is counterproductive to our species and also needs to be dissolved. We are one race, the human-race. The sooner we focus on that existential truth the better off we will be. 

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

I am curious about "war with China". I am not at war with China neither is my country.

 

We are one race, the human-race. The sooner we focus on that existential truth the better off we will be. 

We are in a "war" not a physical war yet! 

 

One race yes, but still nothing have changed since the Great Alexander! Nothing will change as long humans with with the schizofren psychopathic nature among our population. 

 

The news is full of doomedays and negativity we are nutering on daily basis and can not get enough. As well lack of understanding of nature and how nature works, neither a common understanding how we are going to preserve our planet! 

 

Good luck to the humanity and the future youth, they need it! 

[KhunLA]

As long as 'war' is profitable, it will be the leading story in MSM

 

war on racism

war on criminals

war on immigrants

war on drugs

war on terrorist

war on "insert country"

war on viruses

 

If not for the purpose of the billion dollar business it creates & supports, then just to distract you from the real issues ... and your tax dollars .... that you should be paying attention to.

 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Tropposurfer said:

 

I find this rhetoric that 'Fauci lied' very interesting.

It seems to me (as a social scientist of 30 years practice - a good one at that) that folks, some folks, make an assumption that somehow when a scientist like Dr Fauci makes a statement that this statement cannot in future time be amended and indeed as a natural function of existence may need to be amended so as to align with the changing nature of a virus itself and the growth in understanding of that virus.

If previous statements are amended or the speaker is as yet unsure as the exactitude of what they are saying as verifiable data, or cannot give childish simplistic one word answers as is demanded (here we see the projections of the questioner) to complex interactive questions then this is seized upon as the interviewee is either a fool, an agent of some nefarious group or belief system, and or just plain lying. 

Such a reflexive closed-response to the answers given is of course blatantly obvious (to most -albeit lots of us push that awareness away very rapidly, especially if it does not fit with the rigid dogma thinking we hold).

We can almost predict word for word the response the interviewee will be met with (we can with amazingly accuracy speak to the feeling we witness coming from the questioner too).

The predictable pattern of doubling-down, interrupting, demanding, subtle cues and pressure exerted e.g. sarcasm, patronising, even open insults which are designed not to 'find the truth or answer the question' but to exert increasing pressure on another as a means to confuse, discombobulate, hurt (and thus elicit a self-protective response e..g anger) and when this is achieved to double down again with the demand for an answer and thus to prove the intent - the energy in the questioner the whole time i..e to discredit and to prove their own rigid hypothesis.

It is also interesting to me when, if we practice listening 'deeply' to the questions asked of people such as Dr Fauci is these questions emanate from an origin which by very design sets out not to understand and learn but to reinforce a fixed belief whatever is offered as an answer. 

In short there is no need for another to be present, as the questioner is the only the person relevant.

The interviewee has already been assigned the status of an object and as such made irrelevant and worthless.

Such a thinking and relational style is the antithesis of relationship and leads to only one place - the breakdown of any chance of resolution and growth (we would call this an impasse - and a large one at that!).

Before someone accuses me (oops ... maybe I'm projecting unnecessarily lol) of objectifying ... I am as curious about the questioner as I am about the interviewee.

I know it would be nice if it were NOT so but existence, our interaction with the universe (everything!) is complex, often ambiguous, mistrust, massive amounts of projection, shedloads of unfinished business (which we drag around), unknowing, insecurity, uncertainty, fraught with mistakes, dead-ends, loss grief fear, shame, and yes joy too.

 

The accusation that Fauci lied is entirely based on assertion by Rand Paul and relates to a "gain of function" process alleged to have occurred when researching a different virus, so distant genetically from coronavirus that it could not possibly have led to the coronavirus pandemic itself. Furthermore the accusation that he lied was disputed by the NIH as well as Dr Fauci himself. Links have previously been provided.

 

What's ironical about this story is the the funding into whether a coronavirus could have jumped species had been going on for a decade already. Finally, who would not want to know whether such a virus could jump species or not? That doesn't stop the tin foil hat from using any spurious excuse to attack anyone who gets in the way of their nut job political agenda,

[Rimmer]

An unattributed conspiracy troll post has been removed

[Stargeezr]

The big difference to the COVID pandemic and the others in the past is vaccines.  Yes only 5 to 10 million people have died of COVID compared to the large death counts of the early 1900 Spanish flu, and the black plague, when vaccines did not exist. I guess back then

there were no anti people as no one had the luxury of getting a vaccine that maybe would have spared their life.  No fraud either back then of people getting exemptions from quack doctors or faking certificates on a computer either. The world indeed has changed. That is my personal reflection.

[sirineou]

17 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"I would be hard pressed to find a single person in Thailand that has not been affected by the Covid-19 pandemic in some way.... "

 

I'm quite the opposite, except for mask and business opening rules, I don't know anyone that was affected by Covid-19 in Thailand, in a healthwise / medical way.  Or know anyone else that has been.

 

None of my friends, none of my wife's aunts, uncles, cousins, or 8 siblings' families (ages 45-70) with children & grandchildren .... not 1

 

Go figure ... ????  Kind of makes you think a wee bit different than some folks.

So except for the ways you were affected ("mask and business opening rules ") you were not affected in any way  LOL

 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

I am curious about "war with China". I am not at war with China neither is my country. The shifting of economic power in the world does not infer nor portent 'war' either militaristically or economically. I am aware of how the US has used economics and weapons to wage war and has historically assumed both the mantle of and the right to control others since its inception. The idea of us and them is not productive to humanity and needs to be dissolved.

The notions that there are 'different' races (a narrative that permeates and clouds our intertwined humanity) is also something that is counterproductive to our species and also needs to be dissolved. We are one race, the human-race. The sooner we focus on that existential truth the better off we will be. 

Britain was not at war with Germany in 1935, but some could see that war was likely.

I'd guess that we are somewhat in that situation with China now.

 

as for

22 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

We are one race, the human-race. The sooner we focus on that existential truth the better off we will be.

we have been fighting each other probably since the first human to realise that a stick could kill someone else attacked another tribe.

The only thing that has changed in the subsequent millenia is the stick, IMO.

I give the idea of us giving up war, zero chance of happening.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The accusation that Fauci lied is entirely based on assertion by Rand Paul and relates to a "gain of function" process alleged to have occurred when researching a different virus, so distant genetically from coronavirus that it could not possibly have led to the coronavirus pandemic itself. Furthermore the accusation that he lied was disputed by the NIH as well as Dr Fauci himself. Links have previously been provided.

 

What's ironical about this story is the the funding into whether a coronavirus could have jumped species had been going on for a decade already. Finally, who would not want to know whether such a virus could jump species or not? That doesn't stop the tin foil hat from using any spurious excuse to attack anyone who gets in the way of their nut job political agenda,

You seem to know things that have happened in a Chinese lab, and I wasn't aware that they were providing verifiable evidence of what was going on in that lab.

 

Do you have a link to that evidence?

[KhunLA]

8 hours ago, sirineou said:

So except for the ways you were affected ("mask and business opening rules ") you were not affected in any way  LOL

 

Knew someone would pick up on that.  Yea, affected a very small percentage of my daily 'life', just like the virus affected (killed) a very small percentage of the Thai and world population.

[ozimoron]

46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You seem to know things that have happened in a Chinese lab, and I wasn't aware that they were providing verifiable evidence of what was going on in that lab.

 

Do you have a link to that evidence?

I said in a post that I had posted links previously. I believe the link was from the UK NIH about the research and denying that it was "gain of function" research.

 

Contrary to popular conspiracy theory, absence of evidence does not mean something is true. The whole story is a wild distortion of the facts.

[thaibeachlovers]

53 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Knew someone would pick up on that.  Yea, affected a very small percentage of my daily 'life', just like the virus affected (killed) a very small percentage of the Thai and world population.

Right. I wear a mask very rarely, as only when I go shopping. Never otherwise.

 

PS. I'm a guy so shopping does not occupy a large part of my life.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I said in a post that I had posted links previously. I believe the link was from the UK NIH about the research and denying that it was "gain of function" research.

 

Contrary to popular conspiracy theory, absence of evidence does not mean something is true. The whole story is a wild distortion of the facts.

I meant evidence from the lab in Wuhan, not some UK entity.