Building a new house in Isaan

[Encid]

2 hours ago, unheard said:

Can you point me to relevant websites?

OneStockHome  has several types of geotex available.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

The key word is permeable.

That is correct it is semi permeable, though this is the first time you have mentioned that .

1 hour ago, unheard said:

I don't know what blue sheet you're referring to.

Go to any building site in Thailand, go to any of the big supplies it’s on a roll about 1.8 metres maybe 72 metres long usually two tone semi woven, the thicker roll I have is a single colour and probably shorter.

1 hour ago, unheard said:

Initially you've called it "plastic."

It is plastic F*F*S that is why I called it plastic.

Edited September 25, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Encid]

2 hours ago, MJCM said:

So for the OP to be really safe, at least 1,5m down over that length, a lot of work!

Plus a lot of $$$.

 

Total overhead cable route from the nearest PEA pole to our building site was about 400 metres.

[Encid]

6 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is correct it is semi permeable, though this is the first time you have mentioned that .

Go to any building site in Thailand, go to any of the big supplies it’s on a roll usually two tone semi woven, the thicker roll I have is a single colour 

It is plastic!

Correct!

 

Here are OneStockHome's offerings:

[Encid]

2 hours ago, Muhendis said:

If Encid had a few tonnes of vibrating road roller he wouldn't need plastic either.

Sadly there isn't one available locally, but I still want to be sure that our access ramp will not subside/sink/collapse in a few years.

 

The soil is a very sandy loam, and if have read this entire thread you will know that we elevated the building site by approximately 2 metres back in March this year (6 months ago) using locally sourced topsoil so it is very weak structurally.

All the heavy rain we've had has certainly helped with settlement, but there's no way I would construct an access ramp with about a 10-15° slope using compaction and reinforced concrete only.

 

Hence my questions about experience from other forum members using geotextile.

[MJCM]

9 minutes ago, Encid said:

Correct!

 

Here are OneStockHome's offerings:

For the rest of our driveway, we used the geotextile. (Not sure if it was woven or not, but it felt like fabric and was easily cut by scissors). A roll of 100m long and approx 4m wide I believe was 15k 

THB

 

We bought the thickest variety available, but even with that some plants still seem to manage to get through!

[sometimewoodworker]

12 minutes ago, Encid said:

Correct!

 

Here are OneStockHome's offerings:

I doubt that the blue sheet would be sold as geo textual fabric but in our situation it certainly does the job and is inexpensive.

[unheard]

14 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It is plastic!

It's not plastic!

It's synthetic fiber!!!

Why don't you call it a proper name instead of causing confusion and arguments?

 

 

[unheard]

35 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is correct it is semi permeable, though this is the first time you have mentioned that .

Plastic bag is being commonly called plastic!

Geotextiles by definition are permeable fabrics.

Not plastic!

Do you call your car metal?

It's a metal box after all.

Edited September 25, 2022 by unheard

[sometimewoodworker]

2 minutes ago, unheard said:

It's not plastic!

It's synthetic fiber!!!

Why don't you call it a proper name instead of causing confusion and arguments?

what are synthetic fibres but plastics? 
 

so to repeat your question “Why don't you call it by a proper name”?

 

You clearly have your own definition of plastic that is different from that of any of the many dictionaries

Merriam-Webster

 

Quote

any of numerous organic synthetic or processed materials that are mostly thermoplastic or thermosetting polymers of high molecular weight and that can be made into objects, films, or filaments

Quote

Definitions of plastic noun generic name for certain synthetic or semisynthetic materials that can be molded or extruded into objects or films or filaments or used for making e.g. coatings and adhesives

vocabulary.com

[MJCM]

16 minutes ago, Encid said:

Sadly there isn't one available locally, but I still want to be sure that our access ramp will not subside/sink/collapse in a few years.

 

The soil is a very sandy loam, and if have read this entire thread you will know that we elevated the building site by approximately 2 metres back in March this year (6 months ago) using locally sourced topsoil so it is very weak structurally.

All the heavy rain we've had has certainly helped with settlement, but there's no way I would construct an access ramp with about a 10-15° slope using compaction and reinforced concrete only.

You are having the same issue as I am having with our access road.

 

That Hin Kluk does the job for us, we didn't put on plastic, fiber, geotextile or anything else on the sand, but just poured the Hin Kluk on top of that sand. It needs some yearly maintenance but that is just a minor job.

 

The road is approx 6-8m long and approx 3-4m wide, with a slope going from (approx) 1m at the "main road" to 0 down at the gate

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by MJCM

[Encid]

13 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I doubt that the blue sheet would be sold as geo textual fabric but in our situation it certainly does the job and is inexpensive.

Do you mean this stuff?

 

 

Did you use it on a slope or relatively flat land?

It does sound like a very inexpensive solution.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

14 minutes ago, Encid said:

Do you mean this stuff?

 

 

Did you use it on a slope or relatively flat land?

It does sound like a very inexpensive solution.

 

No, that is mosquito net and much more expensive and if you have stone dust it will just drop through

 

These are the thick more water resistant dark blue and thinner less water resistant two tone plastic sheet rolls, since they are 1.8m wide they are very inexpensive for this job

 

the drive is relatively flat there is a little more grass on it now as that was May 2020

[Encid]

19 minutes ago, MJCM said:

You are having the same issue as I am having with our access road.

 

That Hin Kluk does the job for us, we didn't put on plastic, fiber, geotextile or anything else on the sand, but just poured the Hin Kluk on top of that sand. It needs some yearly maintenance but that is just a minor job.

 

The road is approx 6-8m long and approx 3-4m wide, with a slope going from (approx) 1m at the "main road" to 0 down at the gate

What sort of yearly maintenance do you have to do?

 

I currently have a slope that is about 6m long and 3m wide with an elevation differential of 2m, so the slope angle is about 18°... much steeper than yours.

We may need to lengthen the ramp to reduce the slope angle.

 

After the comments here I am now thinking about using a geotextile to lay over the soil after levelling and compaction, then a 50mm layer of Hin Kluk, followed by a second geotextile layer, followed by compacted sand, then finally reinforced concrete.

 

Any further comments anyone?

And... thanks for everyone's input to date.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Encid

[sometimewoodworker]

34 minutes ago, Encid said:

Do you mean this stuff?

Originally we bought shade cloth but didn’t have enough for the complete driveway, it’s probably 4 metres wide and about 40 metres long half is shade cloth half plastic roll. 
 

When SWMBO built a car port she used the cut sheets of plastic we had as dust covers in the workshop 

Edited September 25, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[MJCM]

4 minutes ago, Encid said:

 

After the comments here I am now thinking about using a geotextile to lay over the soil after levelling and compaction, then a 50mm layer of Hin Kluk, followed by a second geotextile layer, followed by compacted sand, then finally reinforced concrete.

 

WOW, that will hold!! No worries about maintenance there IMHO

 

4 minutes ago, Encid said:

What sort of yearly maintenance do you have to do?

Get maybe a truck load of hin kluk in and where the "stones" are loose compact them!

 

Last week, 2 guys took approx 20-30min to do it. But they said maybe have to do it again for another 1-2 years and then no more! That Hin Kluk on the tracks where the cars regularly drive over is hard a concrete, not real easy to get stones out.

 

 

[Encid]

12 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

These are the thick more water resistant dark blue and thinner less water resistant two tone plastic sheet rolls, since they are 1.8m wide they are very inexpensive for this job

I found some on Global House's website:

 

 

And being waterproof on both sides and tear resistant it appears to be used for many applications too...

 

[sometimewoodworker]

8 minutes ago, Encid said:

What sort of yearly maintenance do you have to do?

 

I currently have a slope that is about 6m long and 3m wide with an elevation differential of 2m, so the slope angle is about 18°... much steeper than yours.

We may need to lengthen the ramp to reduce the slope angle.

 

After the comments here I am now thinking about using a geotextile to lay over the soil after levelling and compaction, then a 50mm layer of Hin Kluk, followed by a second geotextile layer, followed by compacted sand, then finally reinforced concrete.

 

Any further comments anyone?

And... thanks for everyone's input to date.

The layerings aren’t correct, base if needed is sand then Hin Kluk, then plastic (to reduce water loss) with reinforced concrete on top.

 

The reason for a base geotextile layer is to stop the crushed rock migration into the soil, but if you are putting concrete on top then it has no purpose.
 

As we stopped with builders aggregate we needed the barrier to keep the stone on top as the water would allow it to sink without it.

[sometimewoodworker]

13 minutes ago, Encid said:

I found some on Global House's website:

 

 

And being waterproof on both sides and tear resistant it appears to be used for many applications too...

 

That’s the stuff, it’s cheaper if you buy the roll, probably less than 500 Baht, I seem to remember it was around 330. Though probably waterproof at first, I wouldn’t guarantee it in a storm and after it been in the sun a while  it certainly lets water through.

Edited September 25, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Encid]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The layerings aren’t correct, base if needed is sand then Hin Kluk, then plastic (to reduce water loss) with reinforced concrete on top.

Thanks for that suggestion.

As the land (fill) is already a sandy loam do you think I need any additional base sand at all, or just level and compact the existing land then add the Hin Kluk etc.?

 

7 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The reason for a base geotextile layer is to stop the crushed rock migration into the soil, but if you are putting concrete on top then it has no purpose.

The other reason for a geotextile layer is to increase the structural integrity or shear strength of the land, and to spread the load of vehicular traffic over a wider area.

That's why I like the idea of the Hin Kluk sandwiched between 2 layers of geotex.

Considering the minimal cost of that blue plastic sheeting stopping the migration of the Hin Kluk into the sand during compaction I think it's probably worth it.

[MJCM]

18 minutes ago, Encid said:

I found some on Global House's website:

 

 

And being waterproof on both sides and tear resistant it appears to be used for many applications too...

 

But don't leave this stuff in the Sun it will deteriorate very fast but no issue of course if you cover it with sand / etc!

[Encid]

33 minutes ago, MJCM said:

But don't leave this stuff in the Sun it will deteriorate very fast but no issue of course if you cover it with sand / etc!

I think it would serve adequately as the second layer of geotextile... the one between the Hin Kluk and the compacted sand beneath the RC.

 

I don't think it would be suitable as a load spreading high tensile strength geotex like those that OneStockHome are selling.

And I do not want to rely on the RC to take the entire vehicular load on a slope as it will have expansion joints where water can get through.

The HDPE membranes claim to be resistant to chemicals, acids, alkalis, hydrocarbon compounds, salt derivatives, alcohol, amine and oil derivatives, heat and resistant, Ultraviolet light, mold, moths, termites, insects and organic matter.

 

Only problem is that they come in 8 metre wide rolls that (depending on the thickness) are up to 210 metres long.

 

 

I am still looking for alternatives.

[MJCM]

20 minutes ago, Encid said:

I think it would serve adequately as the second layer of geotextile... the one between the Hin Kluk and the compacted sand beneath the RC.

 

I don't think it would be suitable as a load spreading high tensile strength geotex like those that OneStockHome are selling.

And I do not want to rely on the RC to take the entire vehicular load on a slope as it will have expansion joints where water can get through.

The HDPE membranes claim to be resistant to chemicals, acids, alkalis, hydrocarbon compounds, salt derivatives, alcohol, amine and oil derivatives, heat and resistant, Ultraviolet light, mold, moths, termites, insects and organic matter.

 

Only problem is that they come in 8 metre wide rolls that (depending on the thickness) are up to 210 metres long.

 

 

I am still looking for alternatives.

@kamalabob2 care to comment on the Geotextile?

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Encid said:

As the land (fill) is already a sandy loam do you think I need any additional base sand at all, or just level and compact the existing land then add the Hin Kluk etc.?

IMHO no extra sand needed.

1 hour ago, Encid said:

The other reason for a geotextile layer is to increase the structural integrity or shear strength of the land, and to spread the load of vehicular traffic over a wider area.

Again IMHO the use or not of geotextile for that purpose is irrelevant, but it’s such a small area that the geotextile won’t cost much and can’t do any harm.

 

1 hour ago, Encid said:

Considering the minimal cost of that blue plastic sheeting stopping the migration of the Hin Kluk into the sand during compaction I think it's probably worth it.

See above, though I doubt that there will be any significant migration.

There is a significant benefit of blue plastic directly under the concrete.

[Muhendis]

5 hours ago, MJCM said:

You are having the same issue as I am having with our access road.

 

That Hin Kluk does the job for us, we didn't put on plastic, fiber, geotextile or anything else on the sand, but just poured the Hin Kluk on top of that sand. It needs some yearly maintenance but that is just a minor job.

 

The road is approx 6-8m long and approx 3-4m wide, with a slope going from (approx) 1m at the "main road" to 0 down at the gate

 

Don't forget to mention the concrete sides to prevent rabbits undermining the road. 

[HighPriority]

9 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Don't forget to mention the concrete sides to prevent rabbits undermining the road. 

Isn’t that why they built the Great Wall of China, to keep the rabbits out…?

[Encid]

15 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Don't forget to mention the concrete sides to prevent rabbits undermining the road. 

Do you get many rabbits in Buriram?

If there were any in Khon Kaen the locals would catch them and eat them before they became a nuisance! 

[MJCM]

18 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Don't forget to mention the concrete sides to prevent rabbits undermining the road. 

Rabbits? Rats you mean? ????

 

My builder wasn't planning on doing that, but we insisted, a Foreigner drive way a couple 100m away he didn't do that and I have no idea how often he already had to renew his road.

 

The main reason why we insisted because we laid a water pipe under the road to allow flow from the rice fields to the big lake in front of the house

[Encid]

25 minutes ago, MJCM said:

My builder wasn't planning on doing that, but we insisted, a Foreigner drive way a couple 100m away he didn't do that and I have no idea how often he already had to renew his road.

Did you use any mesh in the concrete on the sides?

I'm thinking along the lines of chicken wire mesh (not reinforcing mesh) just to stabilize a fairly dry (not runny) pour.

It's not load-bearing and is really only needed to prevent further erosion.

[MJCM]

38 minutes ago, Encid said:

Did you use any mesh in the concrete on the sides?

I'm thinking along the lines of chicken wire mesh (not reinforcing mesh) just to stabilize a fairly dry (not runny) pour.

It's not load-bearing and is really only needed to prevent further erosion.

Yes we used mesh. We used the standard mesh you use for load bearing structures as that is what we had left.

 

It was a <......> to render said my builder, but eventually he managed it, it's approx 3cm thick and it's holding up.

 

The only reason why we put it there, (but glad that we did) was because of the water pipe. I was worried that if the water level rose above the lower level of then pipe then it would start to erode the road.

 

And I was proved right because the pipe is now approx 90% submerged as the Lake in front of the house (where the water flows in from the fields) is very full.