Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Hummin]

19 hours ago, tgw said:

 

cause : Russia / USSR nearly raped every country that was under their control.

effect : all these countries want to join EU / NATO and be protected against crazy Ivan.

Everyone or many of those most actie here predicted a russia with broken back already in june 2022, and here we are. The war depending on the Republicans in USA. 

 

I got alot heat for my opinions, and I understand your point of view, but still think and say, Ukraine is one piece in a much bigger game, and being used as a buffer zone. At which cost? 

 

This is not just a border conflict escalating in to a war. 

 

Look at Georgia, how did they do? Was that an mistake? We do not know yet before this ends, but so far it doesnt look promising especially as I have said before, other crises and wars start to escalate around the world. 

 

 

[tgw]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

Everyone or many of those most actie here predicted a russia with broken back already in june 2022, and here we are. The war depending on the Republicans in USA. 

 

I got alot heat for my opinions, and I understand your point of view, but still think and say, Ukraine is one piece in a much bigger game, and being used as a buffer zone. At which cost? 

 

This is not just a border conflict escalating in to a war. 

 

Look at Georgia, how did they do? Was that an mistake? We do not know yet before this ends, but so far it doesnt look promising especially as I have said before, other crises and wars start to escalate around the world.

 

I might have been guilty of being too optimistic as well.

 

But : you portray the war as depending on the USA, instead of the perpetrator. The war would end instantly if Putin withdrew his troops from Ukraine.

 

Then big blocks and buffer zones theory with the untold "bigger game" is there to further muddy the waters. After being painted as being equally responsible for the conflict in the previous argument, Ukraine is now totally insignificant except for its geographic position and is merely a pawn in the hands of superpowers.

 

So, that was another leap of logic. Or of illogism.

 

But let's look at big blocks and buffer zones and how that is itself a flawed theory :

The one entity which needs buffer zones is a fascist Ruzzia.
Buffer zones are useful in a context of conventional ground war. Who has been building up ground troops ?

It is obvious that NATO has not been preparing for conventional ground war at all, and Ruzzia was fully aware. That certainly was one of the arguments in favour of Putin's attack. Weakness of NATO.

As a defensive pact of countries with insufficient ground troops, NATO doesn't need buffer zones. While countries like France or Germany will of course feel more comfortable having Poland and Ukraine on the Eastern border, NATO itself doesn't care much about buffer zones. The reason is that it's a defensive pact, if one country is attacked, all NATO countries will defend that country.

 

In fact, the situation we have now with Ukraine resembles more a buffer country situation than if Ukraine was a NATO member.

 

But of course, the other side, ex-Warsaw Pact people don't understand this. For them, Warsaw pact members were all expendable pawns in the grand scheme of Ruzzia's supremacy. They think of NATO as their nemesis, and that NATO's goal is to attack Ruzzia and that NATO will sacrifice its member countries in the process, which is a ridiculous thought, but one that can gain hold in the minds of Putin and cronies, where one can find paranoia, narcissism and an inferiority complex.

 

"This is not just a border conflict escalating in to a war."

 

This isn't a border conflict. It is a 20+ year attempt by Putin to subjugate Ukraine. Because he was unsuccessful, he gradually escalated from covert influence into an all-out war.

 

There are indeed bigger plans at play, but these bigger plans are Ruzzian.

 

It's funny that you should mention Georgia, as many aspects of that country's misfortunes in since 2007 are pretty similar to Ukraine's.

How is Georgia for a NATO buffer zone ?

Nah, it's purely a piece of what Putin considers the Ruzzian empire. What Georgians have to say about it is meaningless.

Georgia is pro-EU and pro-Democracy. Sounds familiar ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia–Russia_relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20 by tgw

[jvs]

I have not posted here in awhile,i purposely avoided it.

The reason?

A few people om here make my blood boil!

I was just trying to keep my true feelings in and would i have said my part i would have been suspended.

I lived thru the cold war and i have heard the stories about what the russians did in WW2.

I  believe they will not stop until made to stop.

It was getting very bad for the Ukrainians at the front and some smug people on here kept rooting for the russians and telling the Ukrainians to roll over and play dead.

Yes it is bad at the frontline but look at the damage the Ukrainians are doing behind the line and even in side russia?

That must hurt.

There is hope!and more then that,the vote is finally on the table and i expect for the 60 billion dollars worth of ammo and missiles to be sent to the Ukraine ASAP!

And before the usual people say the money is better spent inside of the US?They are sending old material that will has to be discarded soon anyway and replace it with the newest gear inside the US.

Win win for both sides.!!!

But why has it taken so long?The blood of many innocent Ukrainians is on the hands of Mike Johnson.

But he flipped!No more talk about securing the US border first,what happened to him?

I am sure he got a call from some body!Who? There are a few possibilities but who cares?

Please get the vote done and send a lot of missiles and SAM's in the direction of putin.

The tide is finally turning.

Go Ukraine!

Pleas watch the video,Mike does not look very happy,like a little boy who is made to apologize .He is saying things he does not like to say.

 

Edited April 20 by jvs

[Mavideol]

UPDATE 1-Ukraine says it took down Russian Tu-22M3 strategic bomber

https://au.yahoo.com/finance/news/1-ukraine-says-took-down-073811087.html

 

sure Russia will deny it, after all they invincible  555

 

Ukraine claims to shoot down Russian bomber - Moscow denies it

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-claims-shoot-down-russian-090605870.html

Edited April 20 by Mavideol

[Mavideol]

Suspected spies arrested in Germany over Russian plot for sabotage attacks on military aid to Ukraine

https://au.yahoo.com/news/suspected-spies-arrested-germany-over-132730642.html

German police arrest two men for plotting sabotage on Russia's behalf

https://au.yahoo.com/news/german-police-arrest-two-men-145318786.html

Edited April 20 by Mavideol

[Mavideol]

finally some good news !!!

Scholz Says EU Leaders to Send Ukraine More Patriot Systems

https://au.yahoo.com/finance/news/eu-send-ukraine-more-patriot-175132089.html

[Hummin]

46 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

I might have been guilty of being too optimistic as well.

 

But : you portray the war as depending on the USA, instead of the perpetrator. The war would end instantly if Putin withdrew his troops from Ukraine.

 

Then big blocks and buffer zones theory with the untold "bigger game" is there to further muddy the waters. After being painted as being equally responsible for the conflict in the previous argument, Ukraine is now totally insignificant except for its geographic position and is merely a pawn in the hands of superpowers.

 

So, that was another leap of logic. Or of illogism.

 

But let's look at big blocks and buffer zones and how that is itself a flawed theory :

The one entity which needs buffer zones is a fascist Ruzzia.
Buffer zones are useful in a context of conventional ground war. Who has been building up ground troops ?

It is obvious that NATO has not been preparing for conventional ground war at all, and Ruzzia was fully aware. That certainly was one of the arguments in favour of Putin's attack. Weakness of NATO.

As a defensive pact of countries with insufficient ground troops, NATO doesn't need buffer zones. While countries like France or Germany will of course feel more comfortable having Poland and Ukraine on the Eastern border, NATO itself doesn't care much about buffer zones. The reason is that it's a defensive pact, if one country is attacked, all NATO countries will defend that country.

 

In fact, the situation we have now with Ukraine resembles more a buffer country situation than if Ukraine was a NATO member.

 

But of course, the other side, ex-Warsaw Pact people don't understand this. For them, Warsaw pact members were all expendable pawns in the grand scheme of Ruzzia's supremacy. They think of NATO as their nemesis, and that NATO's goal is to attack Ruzzia and that NATO will sacrifice its member countries in the process, which is a ridiculous thought, but one that can gain hold in the minds of Putin and cronies, where one can find paranoia, narcissism and an inferiority complex.

 

"This is not just a border conflict escalating in to a war."

 

This isn't a border conflict. It is a 20+ year attempt by Putin to subjugate Ukraine. Because he was unsuccessful, he gradually escalated from covert influence into an all-out war.

 

There are indeed bigger plans at play, but these bigger plans are Ruzzian.

 

It's funny that you should mention Georgia, as many aspects of that country's misfortunes in since 2007 are pretty similar to Ukraine's.

How is Georgia for a NATO buffer zone ?

Nah, it's purely a piece of what Putin considers the Ruzzian empire. What Georgians have to say about it is meaningless.

Georgia is pro-EU and pro-Democracy. Sounds familiar ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia–Russia_relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili

 

 

 

 

We know Russia will not give up, there is resources and strategic reasons why so, so therefor is Ukraine and Crimea important for Russia, and need Ukraine. The west alliance knows this, so to cut down to the big lines, there is alot on stakes here.

 

The pressure Nato have executed against russians, cant be overlooked. Simple reasons

 

Im a tax payer of Norway, and I agree all support given for Ukraine, and I believe for each capital we are pretty high up there in contribution of necessary equipment. So far there have not been any discussion about our contribution to Ukraine because we are unified in the support. Still it should bee room to discuss reasons, and whats next for Ukraine, and that is pretty much in the hands of Us next president, and what he manage to pull through in the congress. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 4/19/2024 at 8:15 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't think they are playing politics. I think they just consider that the money is better spent on the US than things that go boom.

Except that those two things are not mutually exclusive. According to an analysis in Time Magazine of where the money actually goes, around 90% of the money for Ukraine aid is spent in the US (and creates thousands of US jobs).

 

Why the U.S. Has the Most to Gain From Supporting Ukraine

 

Quote

Although some may claim U.S. aid vanishes into a cesspool of unchecked Ukrainian corruption, one study has shown that 90% of Ukraine aid dollars are not actually sent to Ukraine after all. Rather, these funds stay in the U.S., where leading defense contractors have invested tens of billions in over 100 new industrial manufacturing facilities, creating thousands of jobs across at least 38 states directly, with vital subcomponents sourced from all 50 states.

 

[jvs]

4 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Except that those two things are not mutually exclusive. According to an analysis in Time Magazine of where the money actually goes, around 90% of the money for Ukraine aid is spent in the US (and creates thousands of US jobs).

 

Why the U.S. Has the Most to Gain From Supporting Ukraine

 

 

He was told this more then once but you know it does not fit his narrative.

He is a putin lover, i better stop here.

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

We know Russia will not give up, there is resources and strategic reasons why so, so therefor is Ukraine and Crimea important for Russia, and need Ukraine. The west alliance knows this, so to cut down to the big lines, there is alot on stakes here.

 

The pressure Nato have executed against russians, cant be overlooked. Simple reasons

 

Im a tax payer of Norway, and I agree all support given for Ukraine, and I believe for each capital we are pretty high up there in contribution of necessary equipment. So far there have not been any discussion about our contribution to Ukraine because we are unified in the support. Still it should bee room to discuss reasons, and whats next for Ukraine, and that is pretty much in the hands of Us next president, and what he manage to pull through in the congress. 

 

regarding the pressure put on Russians by NATO, I suggest you examine the war in ex-Yugoslavia.

[Hummin]

59 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

regarding the pressure put on Russians by NATO, I suggest you examine the war in ex-Yugoslavia.

We bombed there to, and a complicated ethnically post Warsaw pact war where Nato intervened quite prompt and effective, almost without hesitation even it was blocked by russia and china. The Chineese embassy was bombed if I recall correctly.

 

An ethnicall war not so different from Gaza some would say. 

[tgw]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

We bombed there to, and a complicated ethnically post Warsaw pact war where Nato intervened quite prompt and effective, almost without hesitation even it was blocked by russia and china. The Chineese embassy was bombed if I recall correctly.

 

An ethnicall war not so different from Gaza some would say. 

 

what I take away from that war is that Russia supported war criminals there too.

[Hummin]

49 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

what I take away from that war is that Russia supported war criminals there too.

I know, and if you turn it around, so have we done in many wars. Again world politics is deleted

[GroveHillWanderer]

5 hours ago, Hummin said:

An ethnicall war not so different from Gaza some would say. 

Really? And who would those "some" be?

[jvs]

Well the vote has been done!

Now send all that stuff to the Ukraine in a hurry so they can kick the russians out.

This is a game changer,soon also F-16's and then the Crimea bridge can be taken out! Air dominance will make a very big difference.

Also this is a strong message to China and Iran.

Not much more to say for now,i hope this can be over soon.

I am sure unforeseen things can happen but this is a much overdue step by the US government.

Go Ukraine!

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

Well the vote has been done!

Now send all that stuff to the Ukraine in a hurry so they can kick the russians out.

This is a game changer,soon also F-16's and then the Crimea bridge can be taken out! Air dominance will make a very big difference.

Also this is a strong message to China and Iran.

Not much more to say for now,i hope this can be over soon.

I am sure unforeseen things can happen but this is a much overdue step by the US government.

Go Ukraine!

Yes Trump, Johnson, and the MTG clown should pay compensation for all the wounded and dead Ukrainian defenders that they are culpable for by their treasonous 6 month delay.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Except that those two things are not mutually exclusive. According to an analysis in Time Magazine of where the money actually goes, around 90% of the money for Ukraine aid is spent in the US (and creates thousands of US jobs).

 

Why the U.S. Has the Most to Gain From Supporting Ukraine

 

 

America, the land of death ( dealing industry )!

 

Have you considered that if the taxpayer's money was spend on things that benefit ALL Americans, like non war industries ( so the US doesn't need to depend on China ), and rebuilding the infrastructure, that would create more jobs than the death industry?

 

Do you want the 1% to get rich while the infrastructure disintegrates for lack of money and skilled workers?

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Really? And who would those "some" be?

LOL. There's a few on this forum.

[metisdead]

A post with a video from an unapproved social media source contravening our Community Standards has been removed:

• Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source.

A troll post and a reply contravening our Community Standards has been removed.

[tgw]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

America, the land of death ( dealing industry )!

 

Have you considered that if the taxpayer's money was spend on things that benefit ALL Americans, like non war industries ( so the US doesn't need to depend on China ), and rebuilding the infrastructure, that would create more jobs than the death industry?

 

Do you want the 1% to get rich while the infrastructure disintegrates for lack of money and skilled workers?

 

Spending the dollars on helping Ukraine (and Taiwan, and Israel, to some extent) does help EVERYONE that wants to live in a DEMOCRATIC WORLD.

The Ruzzian playbook is all about destabilizing democratic countries by promoting divisiveness. the 1%, racial tensions, tensions about emissions, etc.

 

Funny you mention the 1% ... what about the richest man in the world and his oligarch cronies ? You seem keen to expand their Ruzzian economic model.

Edited April 21 by tgw

[kwonitoy]

Another ship out of action

[kwonitoy]

Longer range ATACMS is what they needed last year, better late than never. Add F 16 to be coming later this summer

[Mavideol]

they are allowed to their opinion..... but they may suffer from short term memory loss syndrome

Russia says US support for Ukraine will end as ‘humiliating fiasco’ like ‘Vietnam and Afghanistan’

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-us-support-ukraine-222005241.html

 

The war in Afghanistan became a quagmire for what by the late 1980s was a disintegrating Soviet Union. (The Soviets suffered some 15,000 dead and many more injured.)

 

https://www.britannica.com/event/Soviet-invasion-of-Afghanistan

 

[Mavideol]

pay back time 555

Ukraine launches drone attacks targeting Russian energy infrastructure, Ukraine special services source says

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-launches-drone-attacks-targeting-165454964.html

[Mavideol]

karma does work in some funny ways...fighting for Russia who would have thought

How a store manager from India ended up killed on the battlefields of Ukraine fighting for Russia

https://au.yahoo.com/news/store-manager-india-ended-killed-013107660.html

[Mavideol]

if my memory serves me right, wasn't this moron, a Republican/Trump backer, criticizing the aid send to Ukraine, and now he sees the reality, I guess it's never too late to open your eyes

Graham warns Putin ‘will not stop’ if successful in Ukraine

https://au.yahoo.com/news/graham-warns-putin-not-stop-142006813.html

[Mavideol]

How Putin’s Whirlwind Bromance Could End in a Kremlin Tragedy

https://au.yahoo.com/news/putin-whirlwind-bromance-could-end-214518690.html

[Mavideol]

and the old fart has "finally" spoken, wonder why all of a sudden he opened his mouth and not be afraid of pissing off Trump

McConnell: Delay in Ukraine aid ‘strained prospects’ of defeating Russia

https://au.yahoo.com/news/mcconnell-delay-ukraine-aid-strained-172749902.html

[Mavideol]

finally see some light at the end of the tunnel

Zelensky: U.S. Weapons Will Give Ukraine ‘a Chance at Victory’ Against Russia

https://au.yahoo.com/news/zelensky-u-weapons-ukraine-chance-152300379.html

 

 

 

[Mavideol]

and the good news are ????

Ukrainian forces 'regain lost positions' in battle for Chasiv Yar against Putin's army

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-forces-regain-lost-positions-070109398.html