Opinion: It is time Thais end the practice of demanding dowries from prospective spouses

[JimTripper]

I think it's a useful tradition.

 

When a family member pairs up with a skint partner  guess who they end up leaning o  when they can't pay the bills. The grandparents, uncles, etc.

 

If they have kids it's worse because they are family and need to be supported in any case.

 

The dowry is a way of feeling out whether a partner is going to be a burden on other family members. I think that's why the dowry is often returned. It's not all about a payoff.

 

I thing the USA should use dowry's also.

[Hans Johnson]

I consider I was lucky, I married into a well to do Thai Chinese family where you are expected to pay a  dowry which I didn’t have ,so my girl friend had to help out with gold and money display on a tray and a big hotel wedding. 
The mother called the next day to collect the dowry and pickup keys for a house in Silom and they have a  new car for us as well. 
The wife’s parents and family have been so supporting towards me as a farang and always helped out with our business and any extra expenses. 
 

Today looking back I was so lucky to have a great wife and family. 
 

 

[ivor bigun]

32 yrs ago i married a lovely young Thai girl ,never asked for a dowry ,divorced some yrs later and married my present wife ,not asked for a dowry  then either ,

[lujanit]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not one of the better posts.

Extremely relevant today as when it was written.  Only farangs who married bar girls who practised prostitution and stupidly paid sin sot would be upset by the information contained in the article.

 

If you go into any venture blind you are going to get ripped off.  Research is the key and that is what the referenced article gives in buckets.  If you let your little head control your big one you have already failed.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, lujanit said:

Extremely relevant today as when it was written.  Only farangs who married bar girls who practised prostitution and stupidly paid sin sot would be upset by the information contained in the article.

 

If you go into any venture blind you are going to get ripped off.  Research is the key and that is what the referenced article gives in buckets.  If you let your little head control your big one you have already failed.

But you're missing the point ..........

Many of us older gentlemen still want to have sex with young and attractive women.

And our only option is to pay.

 

I paid 100kbht ......

For an attractive woman (9 or 10), 20 years younger than me, payment 2 months after the wedding, with the conditions unlimited sex and a 1 year marriage extension before payment. I can tell you it was worth every baht!

[2009]

What was the original idea behind the dowry? And how does it "work" today?

 

All I see is:

 

1: dowry paid

2: lazy wife

3: untidy, cluttered home

4: total filthy home

5: eating nothing but fried chicken and somtum forever

6: man ends up cleaning himself

7: man ends up cooking himself

8: children are neglected by mother, sometimes abused

9: wife spends her man's hard earned cash and asks for more

10: she ends up banging the neighborhood

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

Or maybe I lived in rural Issan too long. Lol

 

Oh and I forgot about the part where she gambles away the farm.

[Will B Good]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I believe in the poorer families the money/sinsod, is really just for show and is returned to the couple after ceremonies to help get them started. 

I always understood it went to the cost of the wedding for which the bride's family have to pay.......in effect the groom pays for the wedding, but bride's family is perceived to have played their part by using his money!!

[spidermike007]

I don't know when, or how this practice will be abolished. But, I do know it is time for Thais to stop demanding dowries that are completely out of proportion to who the woman is, how old she is, how many children she has, and her status as a divorcee. All of that dramatically reduces her value, on the dowry market, and is inflated only by highly ignorant over very desperate and vulnerable men, who pay ridiculous amounts of money to modestly attractive women, who have children and are NOT YOUNG. And in the process skew entire system, as word gets around fast, when one guy blows protocol, by becoming a temporarily incapacitated dotard. 

 

Please, pay some tribute to our gender, and use a level head!

 

Here is something from a law firm, which I think it pretty sound advice. Also, some other sound recommendations on the amount. It is very much about class, station in life, education, kids, age, beauty, and formerly married, or not.

The price of the sin sod depends on a variety of factors. A bride's education and social standing increase the expected price. If your fiance is a high earner or a beauty queen this will also increase the price. Rural families often expect less of a sin sod than city dwellers. Other factors will decrease the amount expected. If your Thai bride-to-be has been previously married, or already has children, her family may ask for a much smaller sin sod. In many of these cases no sin sod may be expected at all. Sin sod amounts vary widely. If your fiance is a middle class university graduate, expect to pay 100,000 - 300,000 Baht. On the upper end, you may have to pay millions of Baht if your fiance is a successful businesswoman, famous performer, or rich socialite.

http://usa.siam-legal.com/family-law/thai-dowry.php

Edited March 9, 2022 by spidermike007

[sanuk711]

Another thread about Sin-Sot........ I guess its been a while.

 

So is Bris̄uthṭhi̒ ---(Borrasit) now off the list of what adds up to a good dowry

It used to be number 1 if you were Thai man.

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

I used to know a guy who had a custom built, spectacular hilltop villa on Samui. This place was unbelievably luxurious and was probably worth well over a million dollars. He was a ship captain who for decades piloting major ships and put a lot of his life savings into this villa for retirement.

He married the wrong woman and she was a compulsive gambler. One night she was out gambling and she put up the house as collateral, and lost. Some mafia guys came by a couple days later with the police and claimed the house. The husband had no idea what had happened. He consulted an attorney who said there was not much he could do, as these thugs would just have him taken out. So he divorced her, (a bit too late) and he decided to go back to work as a captain, at nearly 65 years of age, and try to get back on his feet, and start all over again.

A very cautionary tale, what's the moral of a story? Take your time, time is your ally, it's never their ally, but it's always ours. If there are problems are going to reveal themselves over time, and if things are good they are only going to get better, so take your time.

[ThailandRyan]

3 hours ago, RubbaJohnny said:

Sure way to scotch such demands ask for a refund clause for non performing bones.

 

I thought I was lucky my mother -in-law expected no money upfront, much cannier to play the long game, however both she and my wife far exceeded expectations, I'm not sure they would agree about me as I am to them a work in progress......They thought in addition to an ATM , they'd acquired a chauffeur. builder, gardener , handyman, kitchen boy. It was a pleasure to relieve them of all such misapprehensions! 

 

I regretfully explained from my lazy boy recliner in my most "Sincerely folks voice' 

I regret your Immigration Office has reserved all such tasks to falangs so as not to deprive willing Thais of honest toil and much as I'd like to hang out the  washing ,mow the lawn, trim your bush, clean the dogs and bitches , car, yard and garage there could be talk....

Exactly all jobs a Falang can not do......

[jacko45k]

54 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

I always understood it went to the cost of the wedding for which the bride's family have to pay.......in effect the groom pays for the wedding, but bride's family is perceived to have played their part by using his money!!

I thought guests brought envelopes with a bit of money in for that..... or perhaps that is funerals?

[Mavideol]

6 hours ago, law ling said:

The guy has to pay "tens of millions of baht"! ... I'd just pass, and move on.

imagine how many "girls" he could get for that amount 555

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

imagine how many "girls" he could get for that amount 555

Two or 3 out of Tilac!

[Mavideol]

5 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

I think I agree with you to some point, I have a 5 year old daughter that 100% I am asking for a dowry for if marrying in Thailand - along with his good prospectus ! That said she told the next door neighbour she was going to marry a farang when older as they had more money for the 7/11 !

 

BUT, would you still be asking for a dowry for her second marriage after 2 children ? Having a sliding scale seems obscene.

 

I paid no dowry for my current wife (her wish), she's worth millions to me, but when meeting her at 37, she's a bit ragged - like me - with history. Anyone paying a dowry for a woman with some baggage is just plain nuts.

 

makes me think about the price for a new car vs the price to pay for a used one   555

[BritManToo]

49 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

A very cautionary tale, what's the moral of a story?

Moral of the story ........ don't marry or cohabit if you like your house.

[RafPinto]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

makes me think about the price for a new car vs the price to pay for a used one   555

Used car prices are going up dramatically.

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Moral of the story ........ don't marry or cohabit if you like your house.

Or rent not purchase?

[RafPinto]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Or rent not purchase?

Hire purchase maybe?

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Not one of the better posts.

If you're old and unattractive no young attractive woman (Thai or other) will have sex with you for free.

I think the main concern about sinsot is paying upfront ........ that's never a good idea.

Fun first, pay after.

just like when buying a new pair of shoes.... first try, then re try to make sure they (both) fit and then pay   555

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, RafPinto said:

Hire purchase maybe?

No, you ultimately pay them to leave, not keep!

[RafPinto]

Just now, jacko45k said:

No, you ultimately pay them to leave, not keep!

why pay.
Just make them aware that it doesn't work and astalavista.

[steelerian]

I just got married last week, and paid the sinsod without question.

This is a Thai tradition going back 1000's of years, as the article states. I choose to live in Thailand, and I chose to marry a Thai lady. So I feel it only right that I respect their traditions and respect their request for a dowery. It was a very reasonable figure. They are very poor people from Isaan. I have absolutely no problem with it.

 

But thats MY choice. I could have said no. But I could also live back in England and marry an English girl (not thanks, on both counts).

[overherebc]

4 hours ago, Hummin said:

Thats what they are worth after giving their hearth to working and sending money home. When no more cash arrives, the love from family is gone and they are treated as unclean and unworthy. Since you know her is a bar lady, I assume the whole village know to. You can imagine her feelings when she walks out of the door.
 

Surprised how little emphathy many manage to show people who trying to survive. You know nothing about her life and what she have done for her family, and what she have been through! 
 

The same I see in family where a cousin coming home from university, and now locked her self in her room, and almost never see daylight anymore. She is sick and depressed, and nobody knows how her study going since it seems nobody knows how to handle it, and not good at talking about problems. She should have been outside and helping her family, but the younger generation who have been spoiled and taken care off, do not know how to do hard work like their parents and grandparents anymore. 
 

So not only bar girls struggle with daily life coming back to their village. 

If someone met a hooker (bar girl)? in uk  usa or eu would you

1 Think about getting married to her?

2 Give her parents a lump of cash?

Just askin'.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, steelerian said:

I just got married last week, and paid the sinsod without question.

This is a Thai tradition going back 1000's of years, as the article states. I choose to live in Thailand, and I chose to marry a Thai lady. So I feel it only right that I respect their traditions and respect their request for a dowery. It was a very reasonable figure. They are very poor people from Isaan. I have absolutely no problem with it.

 

But thats MY choice. I could have said no. But I could also live back in England and marry an English girl (not thanks, on both counts).

Hmmm... as highlighted below...  You chose, you chose, you chose.... 

 

Did your lady not also chose you?....   why adopt all of her culture and none of your own ?

 

A marriage between East and West is a meeting of cultures not a complete cultural shift by one part to another culture. 

 

IF you wanted to go back through 1000’s of culture, why not involve the 1000’s years of culture whereby the father of the bride pays a dowry ???  

 

 

I get the culture part, but its only a part of culture when the Sin-sod is symbolic, when the money is actually handed over it is bribery thinly veiled under the word culture. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[overherebc]

18 minutes ago, steelerian said:

I just got married last week, and paid the sinsod without question.

This is a Thai tradition going back 1000's of years, as the article states. I choose to live in Thailand, and I chose to marry a Thai lady. So I feel it only right that I respect their traditions and respect their request for a dowery. It was a very reasonable figure. They are very poor people from Isaan. I have absolutely no problem with it.

 

But thats MY choice. I could have said no. But I could also live back in England and marry an English girl (not thanks, on both counts).

I honestly don't get this   I wouldn't marry an english/scottish/welsh/irish girl. 

Let's say she is slim, attractive, educated and even has a good job. Where's the problem if you both feel the same about each other?

[Hugh Jarse]

It’s called sin sod not dowry which is an Indian concept

[daveAustin]

Tens of millions?

Surely most of that would be for show. Either way, better off renting isn’t he? It won’t end well. 

[RafPinto]

1 minute ago, Hugh Jarse said:

It’s called sin sod not dowry which is an Indian concept

Sin. Is this not something bad?

[Hugh Jarse]

26 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Hmmm... as highlighted below...  You chose, you chose, you chose.... 

 

Did your lady not also chose you?....   why adopt all of her culture and none of your own ?

 

A marriage between East and West is a meeting of cultures not a complete cultural shift by one part to another culture. 

 

IF you wanted to go back through 1000’s of culture, why not involve the 1000’s years of culture whereby the father of the bride pays a dowry ???  

 

 

I get the culture part, but its only a part of culture when the Sin-sod is symbolic, when the money is actually handed over it is bribery thinly veiled under the word culture.