Vaccine holdouts are jeopardizing Thailand’s hard-earned Covid gains

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6 hours ago, pokerface1 said:

Well it could be that there are many people have a trust issue when it comes to governments and big business especially big pharma. Can you blame them? 

Given that such a belief would depend on the scientific community being involved in a huge conspiracy, yes I can blame them.. And then there's the issue of the blatantly dishonest people those folks are inclined to unreservedly trust.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 3/25/2022 at 9:57 AM, JonnyF said:

I firmly believe that many of the people that were vaccinated with Sinovac during the first round will now have minimal protection. The authorities are blaming their poor decisions on the populace.

 

Are these Sinovaxed people rushing to get vaccinated again? Probably not.

 

Interesting news on that front from a yet-to-be-peer reviewed study from the University of Hong Kong comparing Sinovac vs Pfizer (the latter still not used in China) for the elderly in Hong Kong that was  funded by the Chinese government:

 

"For people 60 and older, two Sinovac doses were 72 percent effective against severe or fatal Covid-19 and 77 percent effective against Covid-related death, the study found. Those levels of protection were lower than those provided by two Pfizer-BioNTech doses. The same study found they were 90 percent effective against severe or fatal Covid and 92 percent effective against death among Hong Kong residents of the same age group.

 

A Sinovac booster shot helped considerably, proving to be 98 percent effective against severe or fatal Covid among people at least 60 years old, the study found." And that rate was comparable to the protection provided by a third booster dose of the Pfizer vaccine, the study found.

 

"The new study from Hong Kong received funding from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention as part of what one of the study’s co-authors described this week as an effort to understand the comparative effectiveness of vaccines. It was posted online as a preprint, but has not yet been vetted by peer scientists for publication in a scientific journal."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/health/sinovac-coronavirus-booster-hong-kong.html

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v1

 

http://www.sinovac.com/news/shownews.php?id=1426&lang=en

 

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3816826-sinovac-booster-shows-98-protection-against-deathsevere-covid-in-people-over-60-in-study

 

However, the real shocker didn't get mentioned in any of the news reports above, but was buried in the details of the study itself:

 

"We found two doses of CoronaVac provided no protection against mild/moderate disease across all age groups, with some protection offered by BNT162b2 in younger age groups (VE: 31.0%, 95% CI: 1.6%, 51.7%)."

 

And regarding 3rd dose boosters among younger adults:

 

"Three doses of BNT162b2 was estimated to have a VE of 71.5% (95% CI: 54.5%, 82.1%) against mild/moderate disease in younger adults while for three doses of CoronaVac the VE was estimated as 42.3% (95% CI: 11.4%, 62.4%) against the same outcome.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

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22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Interesting news on that front from a yet-to-be-peer reviewed study from the University of Hong Kong comparing Sinovac vs Pfizer (the latter still not used in China) for the elderly in Hong Kong that was  funded by the Chinese government:

 

"For people 60 and older, two Sinovac doses were 72 percent effective against severe or fatal Covid-19 and 77 percent effective against Covid-related death, the study found. Those levels of protection were lower than those provided by two Pfizer-BioNTech doses. The same study found they were 90 percent effective against severe or fatal Covid and 92 percent effective against death among Hong Kong residents of the same age group.

 

A Sinovac booster shot helped considerably, proving to be 98 percent effective against severe or fatal Covid among people at least 60 years old, the study found." And that rate was comparable to the protection provided by a third booster dose of the Pfizer vaccine, the study found.

 

"The new study from Hong Kong received funding from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention as part of what one of the study’s co-authors described this week as an effort to understand the comparative effectiveness of vaccines. It was posted online as a preprint, but has not yet been vetted by peer scientists for publication in a scientific journal."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/health/sinovac-coronavirus-booster-hong-kong.html

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v1

 

http://www.sinovac.com/news/shownews.php?id=1426&lang=en

 

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3816826-sinovac-booster-shows-98-protection-against-deathsevere-covid-in-people-over-60-in-study

Obviously, a lot of the animus against the chinese vaccines stems from animus against the Chinese govt.  Somehow, in the minds of these critics, "less effective" = "ineffective". 

And then there's the usual confusion on their part about how effectiveness against infection, effectiveness against serious illness, and effectiveness against death, are not the same thing but rather 3 different metrics.

[onthedarkside]

One misinformation post, an off-topic post and a trolling post have been removed.

 

[impulse]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Given that such a belief would depend on the scientific community being involved in a huge conspiracy, yes I can blame them.. And then there's the issue of the blatantly dishonest people those folks are inclined to unreservedly trust.

It's not a conspiracy, it's Business 101.  In 40 years of engineering, I did hundreds of studies and published a few peer reviewed papers in industry publications.  I never once published the results of a study that would have cost the company money.  If the results weren't in our favor, they got binned- never saw the light of day.

I was often asked to do peer reviews of papers nominated for publication in industry journals.  Usually dumped on my desk with a note asking to look for flaws and to develop a plan to respond to the paper if it got published.  How we handled those papers depended on whether they were favorable to the company, and whether any of the co-authors were good customers we didn't want to hack off.  It had very little to do with looking for truth, or to advance the state of the art.  The goal was maximizing profit.

 

Big Pharma is a business.  Their business is making money.  They aren't going to pay scientists to do studies that don't make them more money.

 

[garyk]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Anti-vaxers getting sick with COVID? There's a shocker!

 

 

Yeah, I live in one of the richest nation in the world and the nuts not getting vaccinated are many. You can basically go into a grocery store and get a free vaccination.

I have 0 sympathy for the people getting sick here that are here in the US.. Regardless, it is back to normal here. If the anti vaccination people want to get sick it's there decision. Regardless it is back to normal here. 

 

Are you one of the nut jobs not getting vaccinated?  Just curious!

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by garyk

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, garyk said:

Are you one of the nut jobs not getting vaccinated?  Just curious!

 

I think you need to read my posting history (even one day's worth would do) a bit more closely...

 

[garyk]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think you need to read my posting history (even one day's worth would do) a bit more closely...

 

Na, not worth the effort. 

Hospitals here are not over run, back to normal here. That was the point.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, garyk said:

Na, not worth the effort. 

Hospitals here are not over run, back to normal here. That was the point.

 

You haven't said where your "here" is exactly. But as my posted info above clearly shows, the U.S. at large is a whole different matter,  at 1000+ new COVID deaths per day and 2,000 or so new hospitalizations each day.  Better, but hardly normal.

 

 

[Letseng]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:20 PM, TropicalGuy said:

Article should state that 25% All Thais are Not Fully Vaccinated and of the 75% who Are, around Half have the rather Ineffective Chinese Vax.

 

In comparison, the West has around SAME 25% Rate of Hardcore / Child Unvaxxed but the 75% Vaxxed have only the far more effective Western Vaccines, enabling England ( not UK) for example to drop all Covid restrictions now.

 

Thailand should do same as this DeltaCron B2 must be spreading almost Entirely Locally  by Thai Resident Population not Foreign Tourists ( All Vaxxed).

England isn't doing well & it should never have dropped masks . Boris lies, ppl believe him.

[TropicalGuy]

On 3/26/2022 at 10:27 PM, placeholder said:

Obviously, a lot of the animus against the chinese vaccines stems from animus against the Chinese govt.  Somehow, in the minds of these critics, "less effective" = "ineffective". 

And then there's the usual confusion on their part about how effectiveness against infection, effectiveness against serious illness, and effectiveness against death, are not the same thing but rather 3 different metrics.

Any animus is against Tyranny.

Only Deaths Metric Important Now.

As we must look to “ live with Covid” and drop restrictions.

Vaxxed = Maximum Effort

Unvaxxed = Seriously Anti- Social.

Everywhere, the unvaxxed Covid death rates are 97%. Clogging Up Hospitals. Deny them free hospital treatment ( and Travel / Work) to free up treatment of resultant delayed non- Covid cases.

[ebice]

Covid infections surge to record high for over-70s in UK

 

"Experts believe the wave of infections is being driven by waning behavioural caution coinciding with the increased prevalence of the BA.2 offshoot, which is 30 per cent more infectious than the original Omicron."

...

"But a large proportion of registered Covid patients are not being treated primarily for the disease and instead tested positive incidentally after being admitted. In England, they account for 56 per cent of Covid patients."

 

https://www.ft.com/content/b4bf71b1-0b60-41fd-b445-ce13379a270c

 

[onthedarkside]

A post with unsourced and unsubstantiated vaccine claims has been removed.