Private Health Cover increased by almost 100% in 2 years ?

[Sheryl]

15 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Is there a difference as I checked April out with the broker and April direct, and yes they have a Bangkok address.

There is very much a difference.

 

April Thailand is a Thai company and comes under Thai insurance regulations.

 

April International is based in France and comes under EU regs.

 

April International uses a professional board of doctors to review and decide on pre existing conditions.

 

Etc etc etc

 

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

I had health insurance in Thailand and no claims for almost 15 years. Then I had a large claim (with no pre-existing condition issues) equaled to a good chunk of all those 15 years' premiums combined.

 

If I had self-insured and put those same premium amounts into a reserve account, now that account would be down significantly. But I am still insured if/when the next complication should arise while there would be not sufficient amount remaining in my self-insured reserve account for the next possible event.

Exactly. OP seems to he heavily influenced by the fact that he has so far had no claims but that is in no way an indication of the future.

 

Had he had a large claim in the past few years, even with all other factors and costs being the same, he would likely be feeling very differently. There is an 8mplicit assumption that he will continue to have no major illness or accident. There is no reason to assume that.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

At renewal their premium jumped by some 30k (and thats not because of my claim but a regular yearly increase). 

Can I ask what age you were when they increased your premium amount by 30k and if it was April Thailand or April International ?

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Can I ask what age you were when they increased your premium amount by 30k and if it was April Thailand or April International ?

 

With either one, to increase by 30k baht he must have jumped a 5 year age bracket.

 

My premium history with April International (based in France):

 

2018 (age  65)  $2,742.60

2019  (age 66)  $2,836.60

2020 (age 67)  $3,011.70

2021 (age 68)   $3,229.39

 

(These are with $500 deductible)

 

Now these are likely all within the same age band, and just inflationary increases.  When I hit age 70 I will jump an age band and expect there will be a larger  increase then.

[4MyEgo]

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

With either one, to increase by 30k baht he must have jumped a 5 year age bracket.

 

My premium history with April International (based in France):

 

2018 (age  65)  $2,742.60

2019  (age 66)  $2,836.60

2020 (age 67)  $3,011.70

2021 (age 68)   $3,229.39

 

(These are with $500 deductible)

 

Now these are likely all within the same age band, and just inflationary increases.  When I hit age 70 I will jump an age band and expect there will be a larger  increase then.

Thx for that insight Sheryl, good to compare.

 

I filled in a questionnaire for a quote on April France's website, well at least I thought I did and I received a phone call a day or so after and then an email from April Bangkok with the quote. I had no knowledge that there were differences in regulatory controls thinking I was dealing with April France. 

 

I have also asked the broker I use if his quote is from April here or France, they are probably the same quote, price wise, but as you say, if a dispute arises they fall under different regulators which is great to know, that and now that I have involved my wife to do some research on Thai forums, it April Thailand only offers so many private hospitals for you to go to and claims are less of a hassle with April International, e.g. less paperwork.

 

When I look at my payments with David Shield (pre-existing condition) included, it went like this, quoting USD of course:

 

My birthday is in August and the policy starts in May, don't know if this has anything bearing on the policy being cheaper or whether they adjust it according to ones birthday being in a few months time of the annivesary or whether they leave till the next year ?

 

2020 age (59 years) $2,325  

2021 age (60 years) $3,690

2022 age (61 years) $4,266 

 

It is evident that there was a big jump in 2021 at age 60, i.e. $1,365 and a jump again in 2022, i.e. $576.

 

When I look at your increases, they are nowhere near the increases I had, suffice to say, you have no pre-existing coverage, so I would put it down to the pre-existing condition being within all the increase and for 2022, assume the increase would have been something like $250 as an annual increase, with the pre-existing condition being the balance, i.e.$326 ?

 

This has all been a learning curve for me and the more input I am getting from people, it leads me back to what I have always believed, we NEED private health cover when living overseas, unless one chooses otherwise, e.g. if we can get it, with factors ranging from age, and whether those such as myself are prepared to accept paying a premium to get pre-existing condition covered, if, or not.

 

At the end of the day, I have had a long hard look at what it is going to cost me for my wife and 2 kids to renew their policy with a separate insurance company, as she goes into a new age bracket and it will be 74,500 baht, that said, we know David Shield wanted 142,500 baht to renew my policy with the pre-existing condition, so when I combine those amounts it comes too 217k baht per annum.

 

Now if we all went to April on the 327,500 baht deductible, pre-existing cover not included, and will be at my expense if an event just happens to come my way, the annual policy would be 53,165 baht for 16 million baht coverage, very affordable in my opinion, and when I look at the savings from leaving David Shield, and my wife's separate insurer with the two kids, the annual savings would be 163,835 baht, now if there was no claim in 2 years, those savings would cover the 1st 327,500 baht as the deductible.

 

This to me comes up as the best option, e.g. I can afford the deductible and appreciate it would be one claim to the maximum of 327,500 per year, or multiple claims in the year to the same deductible value.

 

If there were no claims in the 2 years = 327,670 baht, 4 years = 655,340 baht, 6 years 983,010 baht and so on.

 

We would still be insured that is the main objective and if there are no unfortunate incidents, then I only have to worry about my pre-existing condition which would be covered by me in the event of an emergency as it would be excluded from the policy. 

 

Always happy for anyone to add to this, in case I am missing something, however am aware the lower the deductibles the more the premium, and the less out of pocket costs towards any incident, however not having the pre-existing condition covered is the thorn that sticks out and has made me look for alternatives.

[internationalism]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Can I ask what age you were when they increased your premium amount by 30k and if it was April Thailand or April International ?

April thai for 16mln cover in 2020 56k bht age 55. A year later jumped to some 85k. I am not certain now this quotation, as it was a year ago and i have immediately deleted this offer).  
i went just for the cheapest policy from the cheapest insurer. Mostly because of covid wave around songkran the last year). That would cover me for an eventual long covid, for covid itself i had 2 separate policies. 
i am not scared of any health issues, but covid, road accident and cancer

[4MyEgo]

13 minutes ago, internationalism said:

April thai for 16mln cover in 2020 56k bht age 55. A year later jumped to some 85k. I am not certain now this quotation, as it was a year ago and i have immediately deleted this offer).

Yes that would have been because you went into the next age bracket, e.g. (56-60), I had a quick look at the website and for age 55 it is 55,495 baht and at age 56 it is 68,973 baht, an almost 25% increase. 

 

I went from 59 to 60 and it went from around 73,000 baht to about 120,000 considering they also covered my pre-existing condition, still a steep climb.

[peter zwart]

On 3/27/2022 at 9:06 PM, Golden Triangle said:

I have always self insured, I'll be 69 on my next birthday, and so far, touch wood, have spent next to nothing on health problems, I'm really hoping to just kick the bucket in the middle of the night, no bells or whistles, just bow out gracefully ???? 

But better wait a few years mate

[Longreach]

au medicare not free. u pay 1.75% on top of your tax bill to pay for it. it is not free.

(maybe wrong % not sure).

[topt]

17 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes that would have been because you went into the next age bracket,

For the OP and all on this thread I suggest you ask AA for their current spreadsheets of providers and they should send you one for Thailand based insurers and one for International - that's the one I sent you privately but was from last October.

 

A current version should have all the premiums/age bandings so you can get an idea of what they will be, at current prices, in the future, and what sort of uplifts there are as you get older. You can then make a comparison based on that as well as cover. This is where David Shield scored in the past until they suddenly decided to hoik their premiums dramatically.

 

Obviously for anybody with pre existing conditions the guidance figures should still hopefully give an idea of the %age level increases of future premiums.

[4MyEgo]

39 minutes ago, Longreach said:

au medicare not free. u pay 1.75% on top of your tax bill to pay for it. it is not free.

(maybe wrong % not sure).

Actually it's 2% of your income up to $90,000 for singles and $180,000 if your married, then you get slugged the Medicare Levy Surcharge of 1% to 1.5% above that threshold, depending on how much you make, however if you take out private cover, this can revert back to no Medicare Levy Surcharge, i.e. 2% only for Medicare I believe.

 

This was introduced to take the heat off the government for those who make a decent coin, i.e. take out private cover or pay for extra for the privilege.  

 

If your out of the country for 5 years, Medicare goes with the wind, e.g. you lose it and have to establish your residency for a period of around 6 months before you can get it back.

 

The above said, Medicare is free if you don't work, go figure.

 

Yes becoming an expat comes at a price.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by 4MyEgo

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Thx for that insight Sheryl, good to compare.

 

I filled in a questionnaire for a quote on April France's website, well at least I thought I did and I received a phone call a day or so after and then an email from April Bangkok with the quote. I had no knowledge that there were differences in regulatory controls thinking I was dealing with April France. 

 

I have also asked the broker I use if his quote is from April here or France, they are probably the same quote, price wise, but as you say, if a dispute arises they fall under different regulators which is great to know, that and now that I have involved my wife to do some research on Thai forums, it April Thailand only offers so many private hospitals for you to go to and claims are less of a hassle with April International, e.g. less paperwork.

 

 

What you were quoted is definitely April Thailand, not April International. There is no 16 million baht cover option with April International, it is 1 million USD only.

 

You cannot get a quote from April France online, as soon as you indicate the country is Thailand it takes you to the April Thailand website. But broker can get it for you. Premiums  will not necessarily be the same.

 

There is no hassle or paperwork involved for you in claiming from April Intl, the hospital does it all and payment is direct to the hospital. For post-hospitalization costs (OPD related to hospitalization is covered for 30 days after doscharge) I just send all the receipts to the broker and they submit the claim for me.

 

 

[4MyEgo]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What you were quoted is definitely April Thailand, not April International. There is no 16 million baht cover option with April International, it is 1 million USD only.

 

You cannot get a quote from April France online, as soon as you indicate the country is Thailand it takes you to the April Thailand website. But broker can get it for you. Premiums  will not necessarily be the same.

 

There is no hassle or paperwork involved for you in claiming from April Intl, the hospital does it all and payment is direct to the hospital. For post-hospitalization costs (OPD related to hospitalization is covered for 30 days after doscharge) I just send all the receipts to the broker and they submit the claim for me.

 

 

Thanks once again Sheryl, learning as we go, eyes opening wider as well.

[bkk6060]

Mine went up also.   The people who say "I have saved so much money not having it", good luck. 

I have had auto insurance all my life and never had an accident could probably buy a loaded MBZ with all the money I have spent.  But, that is why they call it "insurance".

The self insured folks how much do you have readily available here?  I guess a lot of them figure the 800,000 b (or a lot less) in the bank is their safety net.  Won't cover much at all of the bill if a person has a major health incident or accident.  

 

[msbkk]

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What you were quoted is definitely April Thailand, not April International. There is no 16 million baht cover option with April International, it is 1 million USD only.

 

You cannot get a quote from April France online, as soon as you indicate the country is Thailand it takes you to the April Thailand website. But broker can get it for you. Premiums  will not necessarily be the same.

 

There is no hassle or paperwork involved for you in claiming from April Intl, the hospital does it all and payment is direct to the hospital. For post-hospitalization costs (OPD related to hospitalization is covered for 30 days after doscharge) I just send all the receipts to the broker and they submit the claim for me.

 

 

Do not click on the My Health Thailand plan, this is the Thai plan. You have to find the My Health International plan and there is an option to get an online quote from France.

[msbkk]

2 hours ago, msbkk said:

Do not click on the My Health Thailand plan, this is the Thai plan. You have to find the My Health International plan and there is an option to get an online quote from France.

I was not able to edit my post to give some additional information. Within the MyHealth International plan you have to fill in your personal contact details as well as nationality and country of residence and so on and. Online quotation  will be shown within a few seconds. At least it worked for me.

 

Alternatively you can also use the April UK website with similar plans.

[grin]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:28 PM, SooKee said:

Very much so.  If you look here you will see there are two listings for April.  April Thailand and April International.  

 

https://www.aainsure.net/healthcare-international/

 

 

Their policies have some similarities (as do they all of course) on face value but when you get into the detail they are significantly different, plus April International are subject to the very strict insurance regulation in Europe vs that which exists in Thailand.  Two of the main considerations in that regard are the (very high) potential to have any condition you may have claimed for excluded at renewal and random premium hikes. 

 

The self-insurance thing doesn't appeal to me at all, it's all well and good provided nothing really serious happens but even for those in extremely good health you never know what might happen.  When you look at the costs of a heart operation costing 4-5m baht it does make you think.  Am I anticipating any such problem, no.  Do I feel better being insured against it, you bet.  Plus of course, you have to factor in the potential for repeat payments from your self-insurance pot if something serious enough happens.  Each to their own as to how much risk they are prepared to take and of course how much they can afford.  If I was a millionaire, no way would I be paying for health insurance on a pure cost basis, convenience and peace of mind however, different matter.

 

It's down to Globality and April for me.  The level of cover for Globality is far higher than I'd ever need here but it only works out £130 more expensive once I factor in the 'dead money' non-sterling transaction fee and I think the restrictions on Globality are less.  As AA Brokers explained to me, they are a high end company.  It's just trying to anticipate premium increases in the future, impossible but AA Brokers might have a better chance at an educated guess than me.

Is that the Globality Essential plan that you are referring to? Seems like decent coverage to pair with Medicare in the US.

[SooKee]

51 minutes ago, grin said:

Is that the Globality Essential plan that you are referring to? Seems like decent coverage to pair with Medicare in the US.

That link was for the April My Health International (France).  This is the Globality page:

 

https://www.aainsure.net/globality/

 

Both April and Globality seem to offer very good coverage.  The minimum cover for Globality is higher though, reflected in the premium difference.  Globality doesn't cover dialysis treatment though should you be unfortunate enough to ever need it, April does.  Globality however will cover the full cost of a private room.  The dialysis cover is way more important than the room cover though IMO, if necessary I can cover the extra for the latter myself, that's assuming the hospital doesn't have a solution.  The dialysis cover, and the fact that the cover provided by Globality for Thailand I think is way in excess of that which one might need, swung me back in favour of April with which I have just renewed.

Edited April 11, 2022 by SooKee

[grin]

29 minutes ago, SooKee said:

That link was for the April My Health International (France).  This is the Globality page:

 

https://www.aainsure.net/globality/

 

Both April and Globality seem to offer very good coverage.  The minimum cover for Globality is higher though, reflected in the premium difference.  Globality doesn't cover dialysis treatment though should you be unfortunate enough to ever need it, April does.  Globality however will cover the full cost of a private room.  The dialysis cover is way more important than the room cover though IMO, if necessary I can cover the extra for the latter myself, that's assuming the hospital doesn't have a solution.  The dialysis cover, and the fact that the cover provided by Globality for Thailand I think is way in excess of that which one might need, swung me back in favour of April with which I have just renewed.

I was not referring to April. I got a quote for 4 plans from Gobality: Essential, Classic, Plus, and Top. I was referring to their Essential plan with zero deductible.

[SooKee]

13 minutes ago, grin said:

I was not referring to April. I got a quote for 4 plans from Gobality: Essential, Classic, Plus, and Top. I was referring to their Essential plan with zero deductible.

Sorry, busy so only looked at the first part of my quoted post with the April link.  Yes I was looking at the Essential with zero deductible.  Annual premium was around £300 more than April for me, around £2,200.  It was the lack of dialysis cover that put me off.

Edited April 11, 2022 by SooKee

[jerrymahoney]

On 3/31/2022 at 8:59 PM, Sheryl said:

I think the broker summed it up: impossible to know. They aren't just new to the Thai market, they are new period. Their business model has not had enough time to be really put to the test.

Just to note then that I recently went with WRLife, and, after 15 years with BUPA-Thailand (pre-Aetna) and CIGNA Global with no claims, I shortly thereafter had a big fall at a swimming pool and fractured my hip.

 

Surgery was at a private Bangkok hospital and claim was paid in full with direct payment to the hospital with no deductible. This was a hip fracture and not the usual wear-&-tear hip replacement which might have been considered a pre-exiting condition.

Edited April 12, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Just to note then that I recently went with WRLife, and, after 15 years with BUPA-Thailand (pre-Aetna) and CIGNA Global with no claims, I shortly thereafter had a big fall at a swimming pool and fractured my hip.

 

Surgery was at a private Bangkok hospital and claim was paid in full with direct payment to the hospital with no deductible. This was a hip fracture and not the usual wear-&-tear hip replacement which might have been considered a pre-exiting condition.

Claim with WRLife? how does that effect your premium now? with an accident they can't refuse a claim really, no get out

[jerrymahoney]

9 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Claim with WRLife? how does that effect your premium now? with an accident they can't refuse a claim really, no get out

There are already plenty enough folks on here to discuss your hypotheticals. Their post claim policy is stated in the policy doc.

[JimmyJ]

4 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Just to note then that I recently went with WRLife, and, after 15 years with BUPA-Thailand (pre-Aetna) and CIGNA Global with no claims, I shortly thereafter had a big fall at a swimming pool and fractured my hip.

 

Surgery was at a private Bangkok hospital and claim was paid in full with direct payment to the hospital with no deductible. This was a hip fracture and not the usual wear-&-tear hip replacement which might have been considered a pre-exiting condition.

How much did they pay?

[jerrymahoney]

6 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

How much did they pay?

Hip replacement 100%

[JimmyJ]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

Hip replacement 100%

What I meant was what was the dollar amount?

 

I.e., how much was the bill they paid?

Edited April 13, 2022 by JimmyJ

[jerrymahoney]

12 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

What I meant was what was the dollar amount?

 

I.e., how much was the bill they paid?

Total Hip Replacement 1 side (THR)
5 nite stay
347,000 baht
 

Edited April 13, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Just to note then that I recently went with WRLife, and, after 15 years with BUPA-Thailand (pre-Aetna) and CIGNA Global with no claims, I shortly thereafter had a big fall at a swimming pool and fractured my hip.

 

Surgery was at a private Bangkok hospital and claim was paid in full with direct payment to the hospital with no deductible. This was a hip fracture and not the usual wear-&-tear hip replacement which might have been considered a pre-exiting condition.

Have you had a premium renewal since that claim?

[jerrymahoney]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Have you had a premium renewal since that claim?

No as it is annual but they have a specific stated policy for premiums after a claim.

https://www.wrlife.net/

Edited April 13, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[brewsterbudgen]

6 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Just to note then that I recently went with WRLife, and, after 15 years with BUPA-Thailand (pre-Aetna) and CIGNA Global with no claims, I shortly thereafter had a big fall at a swimming pool and fractured my hip.

 

Surgery was at a private Bangkok hospital and claim was paid in full with direct payment to the hospital with no deductible. This was a hip fracture and not the usual wear-&-tear hip replacement which might have been considered a pre-exiting condition.

Thanks for posting.  WRLife are doing a lot of marketing especially on Facebook, but so far not much anecdotal evidence of claims being met with minimal fuss.