Living Will (...without witnesses)?

[Puccini]

Why do people continue to post about a testament  and inheritance and go at each other's throat about it after the OP clarified in this post that this not what he is inquiring about?

[TravelerEastWest]

7 hours ago, Puccini said:

Why do people continue to post about a testament  and inheritance and go at each other's throat about it after the OP clarified in this post that this not what he is inquiring about?

Exactly...

[JimmyJ]

11 hours ago, Puccini said:

Why do people continue to post about a testament  and inheritance and go at each other's throat about it after the OP clarified in this post that this not what he is inquiring about?

Because it would mean at the least reading the OP rather than only reading the 4 word header.

 

[zenobit]

I think I made my decision: 

 

Living Will Template from Bangkok Hospital and afterwards let certified by the German honorary consul in Pattaya.

By the way: does anyone have an idea what the "HN", EN/AN" and "PD/Ward" abbreviations in the form header might mean? ????

Edited April 1, 2022 by zenobit

[TravelerEastWest]

HN Is Hospital Number on your Bangkok hospital card.

 

OPD/Ward is the department you go to

[starky]

Doeant need to be a friend nor relative they are only witnessing the signature. A teacher, pharmacist, doctor, copper anyone with any sort of community standing will do. 

[buddy2010]

18 hours ago, zenobit said:

Ich glaube ich habe mich entschieden: 

 

Patientenverfügung vom Bangkok Hospital und anschließend vom deutschen Honorarkonsul in Pattaya beglaubigen lassen.

Übrigens: Hat jemand eine Idee, was die Abkürzungen „HN“, „EN/AN“ und „PD/Ward“ im Formularkopf bedeuten könnten? ????

Very good decision!

 

This is the same that I have already described and have done myself !

 

Under Richard 2020 / Now Buddy 2010 password forgotten ????

[In Full Agreement]

On 3/30/2022 at 1:45 PM, zenobit said:

However, the witnesses must be named on the document with their full name and detailed address.

 

The use of the term "Living Will" is a little misleading.        The term with which I'm familiar is called a "Medical Directive" which gives instructions  regarding what should happen in the event of a terminal illness or a condition where the doctor feels treatment of the patient would be ineffective.

 

Again, the use of a witness would only be for the purpose of indicating to the court that you are really the person who is signing the document.

 

Good luck.

[JimGant]

On 3/30/2022 at 5:04 PM, TigerandDog said:

Unfortunately you do need a template. The Thai format needs to be followed. I originally wrote mine the same as I did my home country will and it was rejected when it was sent for translation.

Translation by whom? A lawyer's office, looking for an opportinity to write your Will in "official" format? Any of a thousand official translating services in Thailand will translate, to the best of their ability, whatever document you provide. Ludicrous to say they would refuse to translate your Will based on "it doesn't follow the Thai format." As if they would even know, unless this is, again, a law office, what the correct Will format is.

 

You can write your Will (and Living Will) in longhand, using whatever free form you find useful. No witnesses required for longhand, but recommended nevertheless. Also, turn on your cell phone movie taker, talk your way through each line of your Will, amplifying as appropriate. Then, sign on camera -- and the witnesses (if any) as well. Heck, even video record a translation of this Will into Thai. Oh, why not incorporate your Living Will basics into your Last Will and Testament. Completely kosher. What probate court would ever deny admittance of this video......

[TigerandDog]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Translation by whom? A lawyer's office, looking for an opportinity to write your Will in "official" format? Any of a thousand official translating services in Thailand will translate, to the best of their ability, whatever document you provide. Ludicrous to say they would refuse to translate your Will based on "it doesn't follow the Thai format." As if they would even know, unless this is, again, a law office, what the correct Will format is.

 

You can write your Will (and Living Will) in longhand, using whatever free form you find useful. No witnesses required for longhand, but recommended nevertheless. Also, turn on your cell phone movie taker, talk your way through each line of your Will, amplifying as appropriate. Then, sign on camera -- and the witnesses (if any) as well. Heck, even video record a translation of this Will into Thai. Oh, why not incorporate your Living Will basics into your Last Will and Testament. Completely kosher. What probate court would ever deny admittance of this video......

Like many others you don't understand the reason behind the necessity for a Thai format will, both in your native language & a certified translation to Thai.  When a long term farang passes in Thailand and their embassy is notified of the passing, one of the first questions asked by the embassy is if there is a Thai will in the accepted Thai format, viz native language and Thai. If that answer is yes, then the embassy only notifies the relevant govt depts in the home country of the deceased expat. If the answer is no, then not only does the embassy notify the relevant home country govt depts, but they also advise those depts to ascertain if there are any living relatives in the home country or elsewhere in the world. If there are, then  they become the beneficiaries of the estate, if there are not, then and only then, if there is a Thai wife/girlfriend then she will be the beneficiary of the estate.  A Thai will includes the following, Last will and testament, provision for funeral arrangements AND a living will. Everything you have mentioned in your comment is invalid under those circumstances and most definitely not accepted by embassies or Thai officialdom. As I have stated previously, I know this first hand as 2 of my friends that passed in the last 18 months had wills in which their now Thai widows were listed as the beneficiaries, and untranslated, in the format of their home countries. Neither will was accepted by the Thai authorities of their respective embassies. The proceeds of their estates went to living relatives in their home countries, NOT their Thai widows.  You can continue to believe what you have written, but I can assure you that when the time comes if that is all you have prepared as your will, if you name a Thai wife or girlfriend as the beneficiary of your Thai estate and you have living relatives in your home country, then your Thai beneficiaries will suffer the same consequences as the widows of my 2 departed friends. 

[JimGant]

16 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

....had wills in which their now Thai widows were listed as the beneficiaries, and untranslated, in the format of their home countries. Neither will was accepted by the Thai authorities of their respective embassies.

Why would I want a Thai authority in the loop at my embassy? When I die, someone will deliver my Will and passport to the US Embassy (or consulate), who will determine from the Will my next of kin to be notified. My Will is in English, which the Yanks dealing with this will appreciate -- they could care less if there's a Thai version of this Will. (The only translation the Embassy wants is the Thai death certificate translated into home country language.) And the US Embassy won't notify gov't agencies back in the US of your death, including the SSA. And they certainly won't go looking for beneficiaries. Hopefully, you have a Will, have the beneficiaries listed, and these will be dealt with in probate. If not, intestate procedures will sort out the beneficiary drill. The Embassy is completely hands off with this.

 

The only reason i can think of as to why your friends' Wills were unacceptable is that they were missing a vital format element, like two witnesses, or date signed, or it had erasures. And if these were home country Wills, which are completely acceptable in Thailand, as long as they include the vital format elements -- perhaps they were written as to exclude Thailand assets, i.e., they were written to cover only home country assets. I don't know. Something strange here. And, yes, the Wills must be translated into Thai -- but only if they're to go through probate. My Will exists only in English, as I don't foresee probate in its future. But, if I'm wrong, the probate lawyer can get the translation. And for sure -- the US Embassy/Consulate could care less if your Will is translated into Thai.

[newnative]

21 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

Like many others you don't understand the reason behind the necessity for a Thai format will, both in your native language & a certified translation to Thai.  When a long term farang passes in Thailand and their embassy is notified of the passing, one of the first questions asked by the embassy is if there is a Thai will in the accepted Thai format, viz native language and Thai. If that answer is yes, then the embassy only notifies the relevant govt depts in the home country of the deceased expat. If the answer is no, then not only does the embassy notify the relevant home country govt depts, but they also advise those depts to ascertain if there are any living relatives in the home country or elsewhere in the world. If there are, then  they become the beneficiaries of the estate, if there are not, then and only then, if there is a Thai wife/girlfriend then she will be the beneficiary of the estate.  A Thai will includes the following, Last will and testament, provision for funeral arrangements AND a living will. Everything you have mentioned in your comment is invalid under those circumstances and most definitely not accepted by embassies or Thai officialdom. As I have stated previously, I know this first hand as 2 of my friends that passed in the last 18 months had wills in which their now Thai widows were listed as the beneficiaries, and untranslated, in the format of their home countries. Neither will was accepted by the Thai authorities of their respective embassies. The proceeds of their estates went to living relatives in their home countries, NOT their Thai widows.  You can continue to believe what you have written, but I can assure you that when the time comes if that is all you have prepared as your will, if you name a Thai wife or girlfriend as the beneficiary of your Thai estate and you have living relatives in your home country, then your Thai beneficiaries will suffer the same consequences as the widows of my 2 departed friends. 

      A couple clarifications.  A Thai will does not also need a living will.  You're dead--the Thai court does not care what medical care you wanted or did not want when you were alive.  A Thai will with no living will as part of it is perfectly legal.   Second, you leave the impression that if a Thai will is not initially executed in Thai and in 'Thai format' it is invalid.  A Thai will does not initially need to be in Thai.  However, it will need to be translated into Thai to be submitted to the Thai court.   

[TigerandDog]

5 hours ago, JimGant said:

Why would I want a Thai authority in the loop at my embassy? When I die, someone will deliver my Will and passport to the US Embassy (or consulate), who will determine from the Will my next of kin to be notified. My Will is in English, which the Yanks dealing with this will appreciate -- they could care less if there's a Thai version of this Will. (The only translation the Embassy wants is the Thai death certificate translated into home country language.) And the US Embassy won't notify gov't agencies back in the US of your death, including the SSA. And they certainly won't go looking for beneficiaries. Hopefully, you have a Will, have the beneficiaries listed, and these will be dealt with in probate. If not, intestate procedures will sort out the beneficiary drill. The Embassy is completely hands off with this.

 

The only reason i can think of as to why your friends' Wills were unacceptable is that they were missing a vital format element, like two witnesses, or date signed, or it had erasures. And if these were home country Wills, which are completely acceptable in Thailand, as long as they include the vital format elements -- perhaps they were written as to exclude Thailand assets, i.e., they were written to cover only home country assets. I don't know. Something strange here. And, yes, the Wills must be translated into Thai -- but only if they're to go through probate. My Will exists only in English, as I don't foresee probate in its future. But, if I'm wrong, the probate lawyer can get the translation. And for sure -- the US Embassy/Consulate could care less if your Will is translated into Thai.

as I said, you can believe that if you wish, but reality is that you're not even close to the mark, especially as I know the US Embassy won't do as you believe because 1 of my deceased friends was american.

[TigerandDog]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

      A couple clarifications.  A Thai will does not also need a living will.  You're dead--the Thai court does not care what medical care you wanted or did not want when you were alive.  A Thai will with no living will as part of it is perfectly legal.   Second, you leave the impression that if a Thai will is not initially executed in Thai and in 'Thai format' it is invalid.  A Thai will does not initially need to be in Thai.  However, it will need to be translated into Thai to be submitted to the Thai court.   

go back and read what I wrote.

#1. i said a Thai will makes provision for a. Last will and testament, b. funeral arrangements & c. A living will.  I NEVER said it required a living will.

#2. Again you have misread what I wrote. I said a Thai will needs to be in the Thai format, firstly in your native language AND translated to Thai & witnessed, not as you have misinterpreted and subsequently misrepresented in your reply.

[newnative]

3 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

go back and read what I wrote.

#1. i said a Thai will makes provision for a. Last will and testament, b. funeral arrangements & c. A living will.  I NEVER said it required a living will.

#2. Again you have misread what I wrote. I said a Thai will needs to be in the Thai format, firstly in your native language AND translated to Thai & witnessed, not as you have misinterpreted and subsequently misrepresented in your reply.

This is what you wrote: 

 A Thai will includes the following, Last will and testament, provision for funeral arrangements AND a living will. 

    Note the 'includes' and the AND in capital letters emphasizing the living will.  That, in my opinion, needed to be clarified as it was indicating that a Thai will, as you said, 'includes' a living will, when it is actually not required.   I wanted to point this out--lest everyone reading your post rushes out to add living wills to their Thai wills.  

    The same goes with your insistence, repeated once again above, that a Thai will needs to be in the 'Thai format' and in both the native language and the Thai language when executed.  I'll repeat that it does not need to be in Thai when it is initially signed and witnessed.  However, it will need to be translated into Thai when it is submitted to the Thai court.

[TigerandDog]

15 hours ago, newnative said:

This is what you wrote: 

 A Thai will includes the following, Last will and testament, provision for funeral arrangements AND a living will. 

    Note the 'includes' and the AND in capital letters emphasizing the living will.  That, in my opinion, needed to be clarified as it was indicating that a Thai will, as you said, 'includes' a living will, when it is actually not required.   I wanted to point this out--lest everyone reading your post rushes out to add living wills to their Thai wills.  

    The same goes with your insistence, repeated once again above, that a Thai will needs to be in the 'Thai format' and in both the native language and the Thai language when executed.  I'll repeat that it does not need to be in Thai when it is initially signed and witnessed.  However, it will need to be translated into Thai when it is submitted to the Thai court.

same horse different jockey

[newnative]

1 hour ago, TigerandDog said:

same horse different jockey

Giddy-up

[Speedo1968]

Does the OP's  "Living Will" mean  "Do Not Resuscitate"  ???

I placed a DNR at all hospitals in Thailand I visit / have visited in the past ( inc. one many years ago in UK ).
At my house there is a copy in clear view along with details of any drug allergies which are many and some life threatening.
I also carry a copy whenever I go out along with my passport.
If I attend a hospital for any reason the hospital has always, as of now, checked my details and confirmed both the DNR / drug allergies.
I had a major stroke with complications some years ago and a friend who was with me confirmed my DNR request whilst I was not fully conscious  as well as a request not to use certain treatment, namely dialysis.   The doctors concerned honoured my request and asked me again once i came too.  I recovered far quicker than having dialysis by using detox part of my own treatment.