Red-shirt followers gather in memory of those who died in 2010 crackdown

[webfact]

 

Followers of Thailand’s United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), aka “the red-shirt movement”, representatives of opposition parties and core members of the country’s anti-establishment groups gathered yesterday (Sunday) at the October 14th Memorial, on Ratchadamnoen Avenue in Bangkok, to commemorate the 12th anniversary of the violent crackdown on red-shirt protesters of April 10th, 2010.

 

At least 90 people died and more than 2,000 were wounded in clashes between security forces and UDD-led anti-government protesters, according to Human Rights Watch.

 

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A red banner displaying the message “12 Years, but still no justice for the heroes of April-May ‘53 (2010)” was hung at the site of the event.

 

Full story:  https://www.thaipbsworld.com/red-shirt-followers-gather-in-memory-of-those-who-died-in-2020-crackdown/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2022-04-11

 

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[candide]

"Addressing the participants, Nattawut said that the holding of the commemorative event was not intended to drive a wedge between people who share different political opinions adding, however, that whoever ordered the crackdown against the red shirts has not yet been held accountable."

 

Who could be accountable? I am wondering.....

If I remember well, Abhisit was PM and Suthep deputy PM, Prawit was army chief and Prayut chief of Bangkok army. They could not possibly be held responsible.????

If I remember also well, the red shirts were protesting to get Abhisit dissolve the house quickly, so that he would not be able to nominate Prayut as army chief in September 2010. Just a mere coincidence! ????

[heybruce]

9 hours ago, candide said:

"Addressing the participants, Nattawut said that the holding of the commemorative event was not intended to drive a wedge between people who share different political opinions adding, however, that whoever ordered the crackdown against the red shirts has not yet been held accountable."

 

Who could be accountable? I am wondering.....

If I remember well, Abhisit was PM and Suthep deputy PM, Prawit was army chief and Prayut chief of Bangkok army. They could not possibly be held responsible.????

If I remember also well, the red shirts were protesting to get Abhisit dissolve the house quickly, so that he would not be able to nominate Prayut as army chief in September 2010. Just a mere coincidence! ????

I thought the protest was because the people wanted an elected PM, not one chosen by backroom negotiations. 

 

Of course calls for an election had to be ignored, because the people had shown that they couldn't be trusted to elect a government the elites and military approved of.

[bendejo]

It could be said the crackdown was provoked by the "black shirts" but the conundrum is that the Reds won't admit the black shirts exist.

 

 

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, bendejo said:

It could be said the crackdown was provoked by the "black shirts" but the conundrum is that the Reds won't admit the black shirts exist.

 

 

A lot of things could be said.  Since a proper, unbiased investigation was never conducted and never will be, it will remain talk and nothing more.

[Eric Loh]

4 hours ago, bendejo said:

It could be said the crackdown was provoked by the "black shirts" but the conundrum is that the Reds won't admit the black shirts exist.

 

 

Ït could be said that those "black shirts" would not have emerged if Ahbisit addressed many of the concerns that motivated the protesters instead of using the army to suppress the demonstration. Supression without accomodation begets a movement towards armed retaliation. 

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Did they also gather to remember the children and babies that were blown up by red shirts with RPG's and grenades?

 

 

[Dcheech]

8 hours ago, bendejo said:

It could be said the crackdown was provoked by the "black shirts" but the conundrum is that the Reds won't admit the black shirts exist.

The black shirts were the reason, the army cracked down on the Reds. The Reds say they never existed, that it is nothing more than a cover story/excuse that the army used to claim they were provoked, and opened fire on the protestors. BTW A Bangkok court ruled that it was the military and not "black shirts" who shot the Reds in Wat Patham Wanaram, killing six and wounding others.
 

I wouldn't know about that, but was in Bangkok weeks later. No black shirts around my hotel at that time.
 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Dcheech

[heybruce]

12 hours ago, Dcheech said:

The black shirts were the reason, the army cracked down on the Reds. The Reds say they never existed, that it is nothing more than a cover story/excuse that the army used to claim they were provoked, and opened fire on the protestors. BTW A Bangkok court ruled that it was the military and not "black shirts" who shot the Reds in Wat Patham Wanaram, killing six and wounding others.
 

I wouldn't know about that, but was in Bangkok weeks later. No black shirts around my hotel at that time.
 

Why wasn't there an investigation into these blackshirts?  How many people where prosecuted and punished for killing the people in Watt Patham Wanaram?

 

Why didn't the army also crackdown on the 2013/14 protests against an elected government in which government buildings were seized and an election prevented?  Why does the army only stage bloody crackdowns on protesters calling for elections, not on protesters preventing elections and attempting to overthrow elected governments?

[OneMoreFarang]

I also think about those people who died in 2010 who did their duty. People who had no chance to just walk away. People who had to fight terrorists.

It's sad that so many soldiers were killed by the mob of the criminal fugitive. I remember them.

[OneMoreFarang]

On 4/11/2022 at 3:43 PM, candide said:

Who could be accountable? I am wondering.....

Who organized the red mob? Who financed the red mob? Who controlled the red mob?

Here is a hint: It wasn't Abhisit or Suthep or Prayut. 

[OneMoreFarang]

23 hours ago, heybruce said:

I thought the protest was because the people wanted an elected PM, not one chosen by backroom negotiations. 

And I thought the protest happened because a greedy criminal wanted "his" money back. 

[GrandPapillon]

we all know the numbers are a bit below what really happened, this for me, in 2010, was a real revolution

 

great and interesting times that could have changed Thailand for the better,

 

sadly it didn't happen,

 

next time, it will be less forgiving

[GrandPapillon]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And I thought the protest happened because a greedy criminal wanted "his" money back. 

it was, but at the same time it was an awesome demonstration of a new power to be.

 

The democrats should have played along, I think they panicked.

 

My understanding was during a follow up meeting at the FCCT with then the PM, that they thought it was going to be end of a regime, and they didn't want that to happen now, even though they did share a lot of common ideas with the the Red Shirt.

Edited April 12, 2022 by GrandPapillon

[OneMoreFarang]

20 hours ago, bendejo said:

It could be said the crackdown was provoked by the "black shirts" but the conundrum is that the Reds won't admit the black shirts exist.

I just tried to find one of those pictures with MiB on stage with the red-shirts. I know the pictures exist, I saw them before. But now I can't easily find them anymore. Strange. Is someone, maybe someone with a lot of money, is cleaning up history? 

[OneMoreFarang]

16 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Ït could be said that those "black shirts" would not have emerged if Ahbisit addressed many of the concerns that motivated the protesters instead of using the army to suppress the demonstration. Supression without accomodation begets a movement towards armed retaliation. 

What motivated many of those protesters was money, free food and drinks and party time. And someone paid for all that.

[heybruce]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Who organized the red mob? Who financed the red mob? Who controlled the red mob?

Here is a hint: It wasn't Abhisit or Suthep or Prayut. 

No, Suthep organized the 2013/2014 protests to overthrow an elected government and prevent an election to elect another.  However when his protest was dying of apathy the army stepped in and overthrew the government for him.

[heybruce]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I also think about those people who died in 2010 who did their duty. People who had no chance to just walk away. People who had to fight terrorists.

It's sad that so many soldiers were killed by the mob of the criminal fugitive. I remember them.

"More than 85 were killed, including more than 80 civilians according to the Erawan EMS Center.^[3] Two foreigners and two paramedics were killed.^[4] More than 2,000 were injured, an undisclosed number of arrests occurred, and 51 protesters remained missing as of 8 June."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

 

More than 80 civilians killed, most by the army.  Fewer than five soldiers.

[Thunglom]

I notice the Arch-Yellowshirt K.Suthep is not in prison despite getting a 6 year sentence

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I just tried to find one of those pictures with MiB on stage with the red-shirts. I know the pictures exist, I saw them before. But now I can't easily find them anymore. Strange. Is someone, maybe someone with a lot of money, is cleaning up history? 

You think that Thaksin has the power to purge the internet of pictures of a protest that drew international press attention?  Get real.

[OneMoreFarang]

23 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You think that Thaksin has the power to purge the internet of pictures of a protest that drew international press attention?  Get real.

No, even he can't purge them. But you know there are always algorithms which pictures come up first with which keywords. And there are companies out there who manage perception. Did he pay anybody to do it? I don't know. But he certainly has enough money and a big enough ego.

[candide]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Who organized the red mob? Who financed the red mob? Who controlled the red mob?

Here is a hint: It wasn't Abhisit or Suthep or Prayut. 

So what's wrong with protesting in order to get elections and citizen choose their government?

Of course, for you, It's better to protest in order to prevent elections to be held.

Edited April 12, 2022 by candide

[candide]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What motivated many of those protesters was money, free food and drinks and party time. And someone paid for all that.

Come on! Yellow or red, they all got paid. Do you really believe those yellow protesters coming from the South were not paid? When protesters leave their home and occupation to protest in Bangkok, they are always paid.

Edited April 12, 2022 by candide

[bendejo]

16 hours ago, Dcheech said:

The black shirts were the reason, the army cracked down on the Reds. The Reds say they never existed, that it is nothing more than a cover story/excuse that the army used to claim they were provoked, and opened fire on the protestors. BTW A Bangkok court ruled that it was the military and not "black shirts" who shot the Reds in Wat Patham Wanaram, killing six and wounding others.
 

I wouldn't know about that, but was in Bangkok weeks later. No black shirts around my hotel at that time.
 

 

(note: I did not take this picture)

I used to see them getting in and out of covered pickup trucks.  I guess they had a barracks or something in the neighborhood where I was staying in Bkk.  There was always a few RTP present when the trucks were there.  A rough looking bunch, probably ex-cons.  No way to possibly mistake them for RTP or army, that would involve haircuts and keeping the tats covered.  I never saw them walking the street in their black outfits, but I did see a few sitting around on the street behind the stage at Erawan (remember the "Peaceful Protest" banner?).  They were visible in vids of the shootout at Democracy Monument, at least in the first few days.  During the night after the end of the protest, the arson and vandalism happened at select targets: a truck would pull up, the thugs would get out and do their thing then back in the truck and zoomed away.  I think certain bank branches were targeted. 

Speaking strictly for myself, I felt safer walking the streets in Bkk when the military was patrolling than I did with the cops.  There's an expression a lot Thai get on their faces the first time they see a farang up close in real life, and these army guys had it, I'd guess they were mostly country boys.  Sometimes I'd chit-chat in my extremely poor command of the language but they made an effort to understand and of course it got them laughing.  When encountering a person holding an automatic weapon it is in your interest for them to be in a good mood.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, candide said:

So what's wrong with protesting in order to get elections and citizen choose their government?

Of course, for you, It's better to protest in order to prevent elections to be held.

The 2010 protest was about what Thaksin calls "his" money. People who want democracy don't need huge bamboo and tire barricades with gasoline ready. They also don't need war weapons. And looting and arson is definitely not the way to democracy. Or did you miss those important clues? 

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, bendejo said:

 

(note: I did not take this picture)

I used to see them getting in and out of covered pickup trucks.  I guess they had a barracks or something in the neighborhood where I was staying in Bkk.  There was always a few RTP present when the trucks were there.  A rough looking bunch, probably ex-cons.  No way to possibly mistake them for RTP or army, that would involve haircuts and keeping the tats covered.  I never saw them walking the street in their black outfits, but I did see a few sitting around on the street behind the stage at Erawan (remember the "Peaceful Protest" banner?).  They were visible in vids of the shootout at Democracy Monument, at least in the first few days.  During the night after the end of the protest, the arson and vandalism happened at select targets: a truck would pull up, the thugs would get out and do their thing then back in the truck and zoomed away.  I think certain bank branches were targeted. 

Speaking strictly for myself, I felt safer walking the streets in Bkk when the military was patrolling than I did with the cops.  There's an expression a lot Thai get on their faces the first time they see a farang up close in real life, and these army guys had it, I'd guess they were mostly country boys.  Sometimes I'd chit-chat in my extremely poor command of the language but they made an effort to understand and of course it got them laughing.  When encountering a person holding an automatic weapon it is in your interest for them to be in a good mood.

 

 

I was in St Petersburg Russia in the summer of 2000.  The police weren't the ones maintaining order, it was the mob.  They did a pretty good job, but saw to it they were richly rewarded.

 

Letting the Thai military run things is similar.

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The 2010 protest was about what Thaksin calls "his" money. People who want democracy don't need huge bamboo and tire barricades with gasoline ready. They also don't need war weapons. And looting and arson is definitely not the way to democracy. Or did you miss those important clues? 

Really?  How do you suggest removing a military backed government that doesn't want to go?

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, candide said:

Come on! Yellow or red, they all got paid. Do you really believe those yellow protesters coming from the South were not paid? When protesters leave their home and occupation to protest in Bangkok, they are always paid.

I saw lots of yellow shirt supporters. I would call many of them middle class.

And I saw the aggressive red mob in their pickup trucks and at their barricades terrorizing the city.

They were very different from each other.

And I spoke with a few people who got offered money to join the red shirts in the middle of the city. For what? Democracy? Give me a break. 

[heybruce]

52 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I saw lots of yellow shirt supporters. I would call many of them middle class.

And I saw the aggressive red mob in their pickup trucks and at their barricades terrorizing the city.

They were very different from each other.

And I spoke with a few people who got offered money to join the red shirts in the middle of the city. For what? Democracy? Give me a break. 

If you think the Bangkok people, the ones who benefit from keeping all the wealth and power of Thailand in Bangkok, are representative of all of Thailand, you've spent too much time in Bangkok.

[candide]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I saw lots of yellow shirt supporters. I would call many of them middle class.

And I saw the aggressive red mob in their pickup trucks and at their barricades terrorizing the city.

They were very different from each other.

And I spoke with a few people who got offered money to join the red shirts in the middle of the city. For what? Democracy? Give me a break. 

The middle and high class people from Bangkok who occasionally protested were not paid. The others, who were coming from Southern provinces and were there day after day, eating and sleeping in camps, were paid.