Filial Piety - What's wrong with it?

[sawadee1947]

33 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

I anticipated some comment like this. I had a kind of unique access to elderly care in the UK before I left, my mother worked night shifts in a care home and I'd visit regularly for a late night cup of tea. This one was government, later they attempted to privatise it, or semi-privatise it, or some such bull. This kind of place is the reality for the majority that don't have significant wealth or a house to sell. I always left with the stench of ammonia in my nose, and my bum spelling of urine from sitting on the chairs. They just didn't have the budget to replace them. That's not to say the staff didn't do the best they could.

 

In any case, whatever the cost, state operated or 5 star, I've seen enough to know it's not what I want for me or mine.

 

 

I'm not meaning UK's rotten nursing homes but those in Thailand, well organized and with excellent Care.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

15 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

I'm not meaning UK's rotten nursing homes but those in Thailand, well organized and with excellent Care.

And who are the customers, westerners? Sure, Thailand is an attractive option for the lonely that can afford it. Like I said, I'd prefer to be with my loved ones. I already explained to my daughter she'll be wiping up my s#:t and mopping the drool from my chin in years to come. She's British, but not that British. She has lots of practise, we already pick up lumps of poo left by my mother in law as she shuffles around. None of us feel burdened by this.

 

 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

Sounds like you've been watching Adam Curtis documentaries. Not a criticism, your comments remind me of his excellent Century of the Self series, in which he describes how westerners have been tricked and manipulated into their individual lifestyles of want and greed.

I haven't, but I probably will do now. 

[sawadee1947]

17 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

And who are the customers, westerners? Sure, Thailand is an attractive option for the lonely that can afford it. Like I said, I'd prefer to be with my loved ones. I already explained to my daughter she'll be wiping up my s#:t and mopping the drool from my chin in years to come. She's British, but not that British. She has lots of practise, we already pick up lumps of poo left by my mother in law as she shuffles around. None of us feel burdened by this.

 

 

 

 

So you packed or forced? Your daughter with a burden? Hmmh. I think she should decide by herself. 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

She won't be forced into anything. If she feels an obligation, I see that as a good thing. We make a joke out of what may or may not come to pass. My kids have a great sense of humour, and I pat myself on the back for that. As per the premise of this topic, I believe children SHOULD have a responsibility to care for the older generations and I'm yet to read any compelling reason they should not. I feel obliged to spend time with my wife's mother, who I now view as my own. I feel good about that. I feel trusted by the family. I feel trusted by her. I only feel good about it. I only feel good someone else isn't paid to do it. We all share the load. I only feel this is good for everyone. . .

 

I view anything else as being deleterious and burdensome to society. Loneliness is a cancer in the west. I only hope it doesn't take hold here. If you would prefer to spend your last days alone looking out of a window, I only wish you luck.

 

 

 

 

[LaosLover]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I class the OP as an 'angry' poster.

I've never encountered anyone with that level of anger that could be classed as happy.

Billy Idol was probably the least angry punk. To be fair.

 

Even in Rebel Yell, he's not exactly what you would call angry. I sold my copy of his autobio at a Tapie Gate bookstore (the one owned by George who used to post here). It sold onwards in a half hour.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Thank you for highlighting Idol's character. Surely one of the great icons of British counter-culture. I do a rather good impression of the Idol sneer.

 

Is George still in CM? I swung by the shop to say hi to him once with my wife on a visit to the British consulate. Long time ago now.

 

 

 

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I agree, if the flow of money stopped, things would be different.

 

Which makes for an interesting relationship for many here. 

 

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

But why would I do that?

 

Only the individual knows the answer to that question.  For many, they are so far in, the only way forward is to keep paying. 

 

Many here can simply not afford to start again, after ploughing their life savings into a particular relationship, and assets into within that relationship. 

 

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I have a woman who is devoted to looking after me until I die.

 

That's great. 

 

How many others can say the same? 

 

What percentage do you put at relationships that actually have love involved, not money?

 

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I certainly have not ploughed all my money into the relationship, 70% of my assets are back in Australia, where they will pass to my son.

 

Great.

 

Once again, how many other do you think have been as sensible as you?

 

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Is it worthwhile to live and die alone, uncared for, and in the hands of strangers, for the sake of money? Sorry, that's as shallow as a mud puddle.

 

Interesting comment. 

 

For me, if a relationship here is solely based on money. then those people are strangers to me.  I would be happy to pay for honest care here, not a sham relationship. 

 

I am not singling you out.  You know the many many relationships here I am talking about. 

 

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, giddyup said:

Those same people might just be drinking themselves to death somewhere else, perhaps in a dingy bed-sit wrapped in a blanket.

 

Sure, but at least they would be in control of their life, not begging to a Thai women for some crumbs to go and have a beer with the lads. 

 

Many have enslaved themselves here due to their poor decisions.

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Without statistical analysis based on factual evidence all are subject to just guessing. Based of what?

 

My observations and conversations with people here.

 

13 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

What I have gleaned personally from reading here has, in fact, been worthwhile ... keep your wits about you and proceed with caution as it is not my home turf (culture).

What about those that did not keep their wits about them?

 

What percentage are they?  The majority, or minority?  It is these people that I am commenting on.

 

13 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Knock on wood ... so far so good with my Thai wife and Stepdaughter after 5 years. At age 75 ... happy man.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Once again, do you think you are in the majority, or minority? 

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I thought most of us had pensions?

 

 

How many houses in Issan do pensions buy? 

 

Many use their savings, setting up what they think is a nice retirement.  Difficult to start again just on the pension.

 

13 hours ago, BritManToo said:

may run out of money, but in another 2-3 weeks I will have money again.

 

Rent, and pay as you, is always a good option here.  It's those that outlay capital up front that usually get burned.

 

13 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I enjoy my life here, my kids here, and the woman I pay to pretend to love me.

 

An honest comment.  Fair play. 

 

How many here can't face the reality to comment in the same way?

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

not sure why someone would do that anywhere, w/anyone? 

 

Look around you, they do.

 

13 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Basically what I have seen for myself and my friends, you get back what you give out. If you are a devoted and valuable family member, your family will give you that back in return.

 

Sure, but is you devotion showed with money? If you didn't input money, would you have a relationship at all here? 

 

13 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Too often I have seen posters here who have absolutely no idea of language and culture and they make enemies of family - and think it is all the fault of the family as they are perfect angels... 

 

Money speaks all languages and crosses all cultural boundaries. 

[Sparkling]

On 4/14/2022 at 3:53 PM, TheScience said:

That's not true in the West?

 

More likely relatives actively trying to steal inheritances.

they start to fight over the heritage at the free funeral meal ...

[Leaver]

12 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Your off topic because you are not married into a relationship with a Thai family your single life is not what many men want or like me for one. 

 

So single guys can not comment on this thread.  Really? 

 

Like I said, I have no intention of joining the Issan House Builders Club, however, my reasons for not doing so, I believe,  are very much on topic.  

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

Sorry to pop your little balloon, but not all Thai families are like that.

 

Care to comment on what percentage are? 

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

It didn't and hasn't done with my Thai family yet.

 

I wish you best.

 

How many have had your luck?

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

We helped them when they were down and they have helped us when we were down.

 

What would have happened if you couldn't / wouldn't have helped them when they were down? 

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

There will always be a place for them here, if they need one for as long as they need one.

 

Why?

 

Because they are family.

 

Question is, will there always be a place for you?  Family is family, but Thailand is Thailand.   

 

[Sparkling]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:08 PM, Leaver said:

 

Ahh, but those who have invested their life savings into the relationship, and into worthless assets in Issan will tell you that you are cynical, and bitter etc etc, when all you have done is been realistic. 

do the pessismist ever state that they are anything else but realistic?

 

actually I am sure it is realistic that most in life works out well, a lot just focus on the bad so much, but that is a wide range to discuss. btw that famous kostolany said: i'd rather be an optimist, because it is the more joyful state of mind.

 

The strange thing about some of the foreigners (and these people don't only act like that in thailand) are so very proud of their money, how much they got, how much they loose, how much they spend, how much they give to others, how much they are scammed, how much they make, how much they have taken form others.....how much power it gives them and how much they could possible ask for the money they spend or ive to somebody (like f.e. believe they can buy the body of somebody and even more). They actually think it makes them superior to have money or more money (despite they usually aren't any kind of billionaires or even really that rich). They believe it makes them better people. And they do value others by their financial status.

Now when somebody else only values them by their money, they complain and get angry about it. Isn't it strange?

 

Thai people are extremly loyal.

 

 

[LaosLover]

5 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

Is George still in CM? I swung by the shop to say hi to him once with my wife on a visit to the British consulate. Long time ago now.

 

 

 

I'm going to put it at about 5 years ago that George moved back to the States.

 

The used book market in Chiang Mai was brutal and the guy who opened up next to him had a deranged vendetta against him. On the other hand, some of those stores a little further out from Thapae Gate  were only charging about $50 a month in rent.

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

And those are the very people I tend to ignore and laugh at.

 

Why?  Isn't everyone entitled to their opinion?

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

What works for one person probably doesn't work for everybody.

 

 

I agree.

 

We are all different, and all have different motivations.

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

It works for me and my family, but most farang/Thai marriages need a lot more hard work than a farang/farang marriage and not every farang is willing to work that hard for it.

 

Can you give some examples of the hard work needed?

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

OTOH from the group of some 30 farangs I personally know who have married Thais, I only know of 2 failed marriages.

 

So that's around 6.6%.

 

Do you think that the average here?  I would suggest it's a lot higher.

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

I am more than happy living in rural Kamphaeng Phet with my 56 year old Thai wife and our 17 year old Thai/farang son. I am 77 and we have been living out here since 2004.

 

 

I wish you all the best.

 

Would you care to comment on the fools you have seen pass though Kamphaeng Phet?  You know the guys I'm talking about.  

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

Why would I NEED to own a house and land? It is not as if I can take it with me when I die.

 

Well, it's a moot point, because a foreigner can not own land here anyway.

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

Besides I paid for the land and house as a gift for my wife to live in when I die. She will pass it on to our son when she dies.

A common theme.

 

Can I ask, where would you be living if you divorced some years ago?   

[LaosLover]

41 minutes ago, Leaver said:

What about those that did not keep their wits about them?

 

What percentage are they?  The majority, or minority?  It is these people that I am commenting on.

 

Once again, do you think you are in the majority, or minority? 

What percentage of older males anywhere in the world are happy with their sex and love life? Expats in Thailand likely top the charts.

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

Perhaps you are asking the wrong question.

 

I didn't know there were any right or wrong questions.  It all just interest forum banter. Isn't it?

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

How many are living happy lives in retirement, in rural Thailand, not drinking themselves to death, because they are realistic here?

 

Once again, and again, and again, what percentage do YOU put on the those happily retired in Issan, to those that are not, and to those that have gone home broke and onto benefits? 

 

I know, that you know, the guys I am talking about.  Put a percentage on it, and not post propaganda that it's all happy days for retirees in Issan. 

[LaosLover]

Prob of survival bias problem in plucking a meaningless percentage out of thin air.

 

The ones on the ground I encounter, having the farang pub or guest house, seem very happy. The ones who departed, departed, and so are not now available to cast their negative vote.

 

And even that is a bad sample, since most aren't in the biz of renting me a bike, they're tilapia-farming far away from any chance encounter with me.

 

I find it a little humorous that guys who ran screaming away from the filial piety demands of family life in the west are happy to embrace them in a relatively Stone Age relationship culture.

 

But percentage-wise, I'm going to go with at least double the happiness quotient that I see in the states.

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

What percentage of older males anywhere in the world are happy with their sex and love life? Expats in Thailand likely top the charts.

 

Sure, but it comes at a cost, and that cost is measured in baht here for the Thai women. 

 

Is there love in the relationship, probably yes.  Would the relationship continue if the baht stopped flowing, well, sadly for many, probably not.  So, many chose not to find out, and keep paying.  Thus, the vicious cycle continues, all the way to the end. 

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, LaosLover said:

Prob of survival bias problem in plucking a meaningless percentage out of thin air.

 

The ones on the ground I encounter, having the farang pub or guest house, seem very happy. The ones who departed, departed, and so are not now available to cast their negative vote.

 

And even that is a bad sample, since most aren't in the biz of renting me a bike, they're tilapia-farming far away from any chance encounter with me.

 

I find it a little humorous that guys who ran screaming away from the filial piety demands of family life in the west are happy to embrace them in a relatively Stone Age relationship culture.

 

But percentage-wise, I'm going to go with at least double the happiness quotient that I see in the states.

 

What bout the previous farang owners of the pub or guest house that went broke?  Are they happy?

 

I was not comparing percentages to western countries.  I was comparing them inside Thailand.  

[LaosLover]

Watch The Land Of Smiles Guy on Youtube. His life couldn't be more bleak (opened a guest house in nowheresville right before Covid -and not that nice of a guest house either). But he wouldn't go back to ol' Blighty at gun point.

 

If someone only thinks they're happy, but I somehow know better about their true happiness status, they are still on average happier than the average person, at least in the short to mid-term. 

 

I recall the words of a famous Chiang Mai expat that I referenced in another thread today. He blew $100K on outcall. services I asked him if it was worth it. He said: "the last one was as good as the first one". He didn't seem unhappy when he said it.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

6 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

He didn't seem unhappy when he said it.

He said the same to me. Truth is I kind of liked him, he seemed like an honest bloke... But if there's one thing I know, anyone that says they have no regrets is lying.

 

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

Sure, but is you devotion showed with money? If you didn't input money, would you have a relationship at all here? 

Partly, yes, it is shown by money - it is something that I have that they didn't when we first met... and I am not embarrassed that I help kind decent people who were dirt poor when I met them. I help educate their children, provide better housing, deal w/medical emergencies, but the $$ part is only incidental. And many of your ilk try and make me feel bad for using my $$ to help others... I wonder if they were this cheap w/a first wife in their home country? And from many of the stories I hear, it is no wonder the Thai lady/family hate the farang... the farang who have sharing relations w/their wives and family, seem to be doing ok... If you want a wife and family, expect to share... if you want a maid, go that route. 

 

If I had money and did not help my family in times of emergencies or just in general to have a better life, that would be cruel... 

 

They worked all day in the fields, growing rice and vegetables which they shared unquestioningly with me... but so much more- we shared the tough emotional life threatening moments, sitting for days together on a hospital bed when a family member was sick, and dropping everything else in life to be there... and yes, they provided the same for me when I was sick - and I have seen the same for other farang too, where the family was there for them in times of need and ill health. 

 

When we rebuilt Father's teak house on our property, many years ago, i offered to pay the 600,000 baht to do it - he refused unless I assured him that I had enough money for myself in the bank back home. This same man faced with a life and death decision at the hospital, left that decision to me. Often times, the health emergencies we face through the years, together, are the events that being us very close.

 

If you don't want that, fine, but don't run down others who make other choices with their lives and money.  

[Enoon]

3 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

He said the same to me. Truth is I kind of liked him, he seemed like an honest bloke... But if there's one thing I know, anyone that says they have no regrets is lying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've a way to go yet.

 

That's not to say that you are guaranteed to go further.

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

we shared the tough emotional life threatening moments, sitting for days together on a hospital bed when a family member was sick, and dropping everything else in life to be there...

I don't really care if anyone in her family dies ......... not my business.

Don't really understand why you would care either.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, Leaver said:

Is there love in the relationship, probably yes.  Would the relationship continue if the baht stopped flowing, well, sadly for many, probably not.  So, many chose not to find out, and keep paying.  Thus, the vicious cycle continues, all the way to the end. 

My former Brit wife announced our divorce the same week I retired for good.

The moment I stopped earning money for her (after 30 years), I was gone.

So no different to Thailand.

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

OTOH from the group of some 30 farangs I personally know who have married Thais, I only know of 2 failed marriages.

The married foreigners I've met (10-15), only 1 Thai marriage has survived.

Some guys died (and were immediately replaced by the Thai boyfriend/husband), most went back to their home countries alone.