Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Wow, that's amazing.

But BEVs are a fad and people don't want them of course.

Good one 🙂

 

The reality of course is that people are starting to realise the numerous advantages an EV has over traditional ICEVs for normal day to day driving and if they have access to home charging which I believe the majority of car owners in Thailand do. I believe that pretty soon, the sales of EV passenger saloons/sedans/hatchbacks/SUVs will outnumber ICEVs by 2:1. The exception will be sales of pickups which some people still prefer.

[carlyai]

If you want to limit your car charging to 80% at home, is there a facility to do this or does it depend on the wall charger you have?

[liddelljohn]

Second hand values  on 2 year old  EVs are down 60% of purchase value in EU and UK  thats massive ,, dealer wont take even 3 year old EVs in for trade in and the banks and auto lease finance companies have lost over £ 1.3   on EVs in last 18 months  in UK alobe  ...80% of EVs are forced on company drivers and leess then 20% are private sales .. Its a financial disaster .The manufacturers have 1000s of unsold unwanted EVs wheras  they cant keep up demand for Petrol cars ,, Tesla alone has over 100,000 unsold cars in Inventory  rotting around the world .

[UWEB]

4 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

Second hand values  on 2 year old  EVs are down 60% of purchase value in EU and UK  thats massive ,, dealer wont take even 3 year old EVs in for trade in and the banks and auto lease finance companies have lost over £ 1.3   on EVs in last 18 months  in UK alobe  ...80% of EVs are forced on company drivers and leess then 20% are private sales .. Its a financial disaster .The manufacturers have 1000s of unsold unwanted EVs wheras  they cant keep up demand for Petrol cars ,, Tesla alone has over 100,000 unsold cars in Inventory  rotting around the world .

And you believe ICE's get sold like hot Cake? Just have a look for the European, US American and Japanese Car Industrie, they are all in trouble.

[Andrew Dwyer]

6 hours ago, carlyai said:

If you want to limit your car charging to 80% at home, is there a facility to do this or does it depend on the wall charger you have?

This on Seal but possibly same on Sealion:

 

Energy - Charging settings - Smart Charging 

Choose time to start and finish ( or to 100% ), not possible to set to 80% finish but a rough time calculation would suffice.

 

[JBChiangRai]

6 hours ago, carlyai said:

If you want to limit your car charging to 80% at home, is there a facility to do this or does it depend on the wall charger you have?

 

Some wall chargers do know the SoC (State of Charge) of the battery, so it follows a wall charger could stop charging at 80%, however, I've never seen that facility on a wall charger, maybe some have it.

[carlyai]

There are about 5 chargers on Lazada I would be interested in charging the EV from the garage.

Some are 7KW single phase and some 22KW 3 phase but can charge using 1 phase.

I'm torn between buying a 7KW charger initially then upgrading to the 22KW when our 3 phase is re-routed to the garage. 

Probably better to spend the extra money on a 3 phase charger then it's all ready installed.

Do you really need a 22KW home charger or is a 7KW overnight (9 hours) good enough?

What's your experience and what are the good brands?

Would BYD negate the warranty if you don't buy their charger?

Thanks

[carlyai]

14 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Some wall chargers do know the SoC (State of Charge) of the battery, so it follows a wall charger could stop charging at 80%, however, I've never seen that facility on a wall charger, maybe some have it.

Thanks, so like in your posts before, you charge to 100%?

At 79yrs old this is like I'm learning at 1st Year Engineering College again, but there's a big difference between the 18 year old brain and the Leo aged brain. 🙂

[JBChiangRai]

Some cars can charge at 11Kw on 3 phase, I think I read the new Sealion does.  I would definitely buy the 3 phase 22Kw wall box that's capable of 7Kw single phase. 

 

I think we will see more and more cars with 11Kw charging capability, the Seal in other markets can for example.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, carlyai said:

Thanks, so like in your posts before, you charge to 100%?

At 79yrs old this is like I'm learning at 1st Year Engineering College again, but there's a big difference between the 18 year old brain and the Leo aged brain. 🙂

 

Using a 3rd party charger doesn't negate your warranty as you do it in shopping malls, hotels etc and the car makes all the decisions.

 

I charge to 100% roughly once a month or 2 months. Mostly I charge to about 50%.

 

BYD advise you to do it weekly, that is to calibrate the SoC indicator, I don't believe it's to balance the cells, I think balancing occurs during charging and discharging.  If it wasn't for MG we would probably never have heard about balancing cells. I'm comfortable with an inaccurate SoC indicator, if I'm making a long journey I charge to 100%.

 

Most expert thinking is that degradation is accelerated in line with SoC, though I'm aware of one report that disagrees.

 

What I have said is for LFP battery chemistry.

[carlyai]

51 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Using a 3rd party charger doesn't negate your warranty as you do it in shopping malls, hotels etc and the car makes all the decisions.

 

I charge to 100% roughly once a month or 2 months. Mostly I charge to about 50%.

 

BYD advise you to do it weekly, that is to calibrate the SoC indicator, I don't believe it's to balance the cells, I think balancing occurs during charging and discharging.  If it wasn't for MG we would probably never have heard about balancing cells. I'm comfortable with an inaccurate SoC indicator, if I'm making a long journey I charge to 100%.

 

Most expert thinking is that degradation is accelerated in line with SoC, though I'm aware of one report that disagrees.

 

What I have said is for LFP battery chemistry.

Thanks and yes I have read your posts going back to the forum start.

Seems like I can get a charger to charge at 7kW, 11kW and 22kW...so still checking if this is in the one charger.

Sorry for basic questions, but the spec. for the Sealion 7 DC charging port CCS2 (150kW).  That equates to 681A. I know you could never charge at this rate, but with a charger like above they say the current is limited to 32A.

What's the significance of the (150kW)?

[JBChiangRai]

150Kw is for DC Charging when you're out on the road, it's probably about 500 volts or so.

 

Very few cars have 22Kw AC charging ability, it's an option on Porsche and Audi equivalents but it's about 100,000 baht option.

 

11Kw AC is becoming quite popular and standard on many cars.  I just checked, the Sealion 7 is 11Kw AC Charging, I think we will see that on new model Seals when we get them.

[Pib]

29 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Thanks and yes I have read your posts going back to the forum start.

Seems like I can get a charger to charge at 7kW, 11kW and 22kW...so still checking if this is in the one charger.

Sorry for basic questions, but the spec. for the Sealion 7 DC charging port CCS2 (150kW).  That equates to 681A. I know you could never charge at this rate, but with a charger like above they say the current is limited to 32A.

What's the significance of the (150kW)?

Don't confuse max "DC" charging current with max "AC" charging current in regards to max EV charging rate....the EV max charging rate will depend on whether an external DC charger is being used with DC power being provided direct to the EV;s battery.....or the EV's  onboard charger is being used which first converts AC to DC and then passes it to the battery.   An EV's onboard charger has no where near the AC to DC rectification/power generating capability of an external DC Fast Charger.

 

When they talk a CCS2 max charging rate like 150KW that is the EV maximum charge rate when you would be using a "DC Fast Charger",,,,,and the EV's on-board charger is not even being used as the DC charger is providing the required DC charging power.  And it wouldn't be in the 681A neighborhood, but more in the 300-350A neighborhood for a 400V EV battery system; even less amps for a 800V system. 

 

For example, as the EV's 400V battery system is charging the input voltage and current is going to change during the charge process....but you are going to typically see it in the 400-440V actual voltage level for most of the DC charge curve.  So, if the DC charger is outputting 150KW to the EV battery at 440V then the current is 341A.    And if the EV battery was an 800V system then the current is going to be down around half of the 341A of a 400V system.  

[Pib]

I agree having 22KW or 11KW AC charging capability is better than 7KW charging capability if the EV can accept a 11KW or 22KW charge rate. 

 

But for the typical home user using a wall charger who is going to be just "topping-up" their EV's SoC like say from 50% SoC to 100% (or 30% to 80%, 40% to 90%, etc) say twice a week (assuming they drive enough every 3 or 4 days to discharge the battery by 50%), then the time to do that 50% top-up is really not much longer for a 7KW charger compared to a 11KW or 22KW charger in those cases where the EV's onboard charger is limited to 11KW.   

 

Really not that much longer considering a person is just going to plug-in their EV, walk back in the house, any check on the EV a few hours later maybe...or maybe just plug it in before going to bed and wake up the next morning when the topping-up completed numerous hours before sunrise.  The EV has now charged-up and it had more than enough time to top-up by 50% even with a 7KW wall charger.   Kinda like plugging in your smart phone to charge.

 

See below snapshot of how long it would take a BYD Seal with a 82KWH battery and 11KW onboard charger to charge 0 to 100% when using a 7KW, 11KW, or 22KW wall charger.   In the case of a EV only has a 11KW onboard charger then a 22KW wall charger adds zero increase in charging speed in comparison to a 11KW charger.  And unless you are driving a ton every day and for some reason an extra hour or two of required charging time is simply a show-stopper in a person's life because you need to get back out on the race track ASAP then a 7KW wall charger should be just fine.   

 

https://ev-database.org/car/2002/BYD-SEAL-825-kWh-AWD-Excellence

 

 

 

[carlyai]

Great thank you very much. I will concentrate on a 1 phase 32A (7.4kW) or a 3 phase 16A (11kW) AC chargers.

Just gotta find the best brand now.

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Great thank you very much. I will concentrate on a 1 phase 32A (7.4kW) or a 3 phase 16A (11kW) AC chargers.

Just gotta find the best brand now.

 

Don't go for a 3 phase 16 amp charger, it will only charge at 3.6Kw on single phase, go for the 22Kw 3 phase charger to get 7Kw single phase.

[Pib]

29 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Great thank you very much. I will concentrate on a 1 phase 32A (7.4kW) or a 3 phase 16A (11kW) AC chargers.

Just gotta find the best brand now.

Like JBChiangRai recommended don't go for a 3 phase 11KW wall charger, because although your EV may have a 3 phase 11KW onboard charger capability the electrical design of/communications between the EV's onboard charger and wall charger is  for the EV onboard charger to only accept 16A per phase when hooked up to a 3 phase 11KW wall charger.    But when hooked to a single phase 7KW charger the onboard charger will accept up to 32A/7KW.   

 

If you want to go with a 3 phase wall charger to help "future proof" what you might need/want for EV AC charging then go with a 3 phase 22KW wall charger if your home has the required electrical service where each phase will then be able to output approx 7KW.....these three wall charger 7KW outputs gives you the 22KW charging capability "if" your EV comes with 3 phase 22KW charging capability.

 

[carlyai]

How do you two know all this and you don't have 3 phase? 🙂

I'll then go for the 7kW/32A charger.

I'm worried about the charger as I'm going away on Jan 5th and if the Sealion hasn't arrived I need to leave Wifey with a wall mounted charger.

Me not here and her getting a new EV without a charger would not be great.

But, dealer said it would be here by the end of this month ....

[carlyai]

What brand charger do you'll have?

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

How do you two know all this and you don't have 3 phase? 🙂

I'll then go for the 7kW/32A charger ....

do i understand correctly that a 7kw/32a charger (single-phase) can be connected to a 3-phase main circuit box without any issues or drawbacks? of course, it would need to be connected to the phase with the lighter load, right?

[carlyai]

55 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

do i understand correctly that a 7kw/32a charger (single-phase) can be connected to a 3-phase main circuit box without any issues or drawbacks? of course, it would need to be connected to the phase with the lighter load, right?

I think I would just use the 7kW 32A single phase charger and not worry about the 3 phase connection.

I think that if you use a 3 phase charger, say 22kW then the car will determine the charge rate, so it may be 7kW or 11 kW or 22 kW depending on what the car inverter decides. Only my thoughts, no references to this.

To me the (old school) thoughts are that the current is limited to 32A per phase.

[UWEB]

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

do i understand correctly that a 7kw/32a charger (single-phase) can be connected to a 3-phase main circuit box without any issues or drawbacks? of course, it would need to be connected to the phase with the lighter load, right?

Of course you can. Have 3 phase supply at home but most of my installations like Irrigation Pump, Housewater Supply Pumps and more are all single phase.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

do i understand correctly that a 7kw/32a charger (single-phase) can be connected to a 3-phase main circuit box without any issues or drawbacks? of course, it would need to be connected to the phase with the lighter load, right?

 Yes, it would probably work  assuming you have one of the three phases with 32A of spare capacity which might not be available if you have 15/45A three phase and a lot of other electrical/higher current stuff already in use.   

 

If you have 30/100A three phase then you should have plenty of power on any of the phases you hook the single phase charger to. 

 

But regarding of having 15/45 or 30/100 three phase the "balancing" of three phases within the main circuit box would need to be considered.

[carlyai]

19 minutes ago, Pib said:

 Yes, it would probably work  assuming you have one of the three phases with 32A of spare capacity which might not be available if you have 15/45A three phase and a lot of other electrical/higher current stuff already in use.   

 

If you have 30/100A three phase then you should have plenty of power on any of the phases you hook the single phase charger to. 

 

But regarding of having 15/45 or 30/100 three phase the "balancing" of three phases within the main circuit box would need to be considered.

No I don't think so. If you have 3 phase many motors then you probably would need to balance the phases. Me with 15/45 supply can probably use up the 50A per phase (but the neibours would have a problem).

My genset is single phase, feeding 3 phases when the mains power fails. No problems except the neutral current is not 0 which it would be in a typical 3 phase set up.

Thailand is 3 seperate phases, red and neutral, blue and neutral etc.

I've 2 3 phase multipoint water heaters only as 3 phase. 😉

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

No I don't think so. If you have 3 phase many motors then you probably would need to balance the phases. Me with 15/45 supply can probably use up the 50A per phase (but the neibours would have a problem).

My genset is single phase, feeding 3 phases when the mains power fails. No problems except the neutral current is not 0 which it would be in a typical 3 phase set up.

Thailand is 3 seperate phases, red and neutral, blue and neutral etc.

I've 2 3 phase multipoint water heaters only as 3 phase. 😉

 

All depends on what kind of electrical loads a household has on their three phase system.  Expect most people just have one home water pump (single phase) whose small motor does not pull much current at startup and then all other household electrical loads are just a bunch of bunch of lights/TVs/washing machine/dryer/shower heater/refrigerators/etc....predominately resistive type loads that don't have a high startup current.  

 

Now if a person has a bunch of motors/pumps (especially big ones like 3 phase motors)  used for agricultural type purposes, then yeap, these inductive type loads will pull a lot of current very briefly when turning on, but settle down to much lower, steady current draw while running.

 

 

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

No I don't think so. If you have 3 phase many motors then you probably would need to balance the phases ...

 

i have a digital meter 5/100a with some empty slots available for additional breakers.

 

there are no 3-phase motors, only a water pump for the garden, 3 air conditioners,

3 water heaters (4 kw for the shower and 6 kw for the kitchen), an oven, and other appliances.

 

my average electric bill is around 700 thb per month (approximately 175 kwh).

i think it would be difficult to balance the 3 phases. or do i miss something?

 

(i must admit, it would have been easier if i had only a single-phase house connection ...)

 

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

i have a digital meter 5/100a with some empty slots available for additional breakers.

 

there are no 3-phase motors, only a water pump for the garden, 3 air conditioners,

3 water heaters (4 kw for the shower and 6 kw for the kitchen), an oven, and other appliances.

 

my average electric bill is around 700 thb per month (approximately 175 kwh).

i think it would be difficult to balance the 3 phases. or do i miss something?

 

(i must admit, it would have been easier if i had only a single-phase house connection ...)

 

You should be fine.  You just need to get a better idea of how much current each phase typically carries when you have everything turned on.  Use the electrical meter reading (may have to convert KW to amps) or use a clamp-on ammeter you can buy off of Lazada/Shopee pretty cheap.  Balance as/if needed based on the current draw reading.

[Pib]

Don't worry....BYD will surely lower the price again under some new promotion like maybe End of 2024 Closeout, Happy New Year, Chinese New Year Promotion, etc.   The price war/price cutting  "will" continue!!!

 

https://autolifethailand.tv/official-price-byd-sealion7-ev-rever-11dec-2024/

[CLW]

On 12/12/2024 at 1:28 AM, carlyai said:

If you want to limit your car charging to 80% at home, is there a facility to do this or does it depend on the wall charger you have?

I own a MG4 plus the supplied MG home charger. Both of them don't have a function to limit the battery charging at a certain percentage. 

However, the car has a timer setting (scheduled charging) and by the time I roughly know how many hours it needs from current SoC to reach between 80 and 90 percent battery level. Always charging 100 percent is certainly not good for the battery and you also have no regenerative braking for the first 20 kilometers, which wastes energy 

[liddelljohn]

On 12/12/2024 at 12:20 AM, UWEB said:

And you believe ICE's get sold like hot Cake? Just have a look for the European, US American and Japanese Car Industrie, they are all in trouble.

Second hand values on ICE  vehicles are still very good   Insurance in EU and UK on ICE vehicles is half  of EVs   80% of vehicles sold are ICE  , no one actually wants EVs  most EVs are forced sales to company users due to business taxation  , very few private buyers want them or could ever afford them...But my main point is that they  have no value  as second hand vehicles  and that is worrying the banks, finance companies as they lose money on every one sold or financed ...