1 minute ago, khunphil said:

To be clear, on my ICE Mazda CX30, I just plug my Android (with USB C cable) and I am using Android Auto, mainly for Google Map and some radio app ... we cannot do this on a EV car ?

I get Google Maps on my Vigo pick-up via Poco Android phone held vertically on the air con vane, as I also use it for a dashcam. Perfect.

The only problem is that it is against the law almost everywhere, to touch your phone which in my case, is directly in front of my eyes, but OK to turn your head to the infocentre to check say your tyre pressures.

Edited April 27Apr 27 by wil iam not

4 minutes ago, khunphil said:

To be clear, on my ICE Mazda CX30, I just plug my Android (with USB C cable) and I am using Android Auto, mainly for Google Map and some radio app ... we cannot do this on a EV car ?

Yes, most EV have Android Auto and Apple CarPlay wired and wireless.

On CarPlay some apps are dumbed down ( not sure about AA ) hence the previous posts and the desire to use the full apps versions via the cars infotainment system.

Edited April 27Apr 27 by Andrew Dwyer

2 hours ago, khunphil said:

we cannot do this on a EV car ?

That's what I do on my EVs

1 hour ago, khunphil said:

To be clear, on my ICE Mazda CX30, I just plug my Android (with USB C cable) and I am using Android Auto, mainly for Google Map and some radio app ... we cannot do this on a EV car ?

Can do via Bluetooth, USB cable, and apparently Hotspot. However, some folks have issues in getting it to work properly on an EV/ICE/Hybrid...sometimes due incompatibility between their phone and car "and/or" have not learned how to do it yet. Kinda like learning to ride a bicycle--it's hard at first but after learning how a person wonders why they found it so hard initially.

2 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Yes, most EV have Android Auto and Apple CarPlay wired and wireless.

On CarPlay some apps are dumbed down ( not sure about AA ) hence the previous posts and the desire to use the full apps versions via the cars infotainment system.

Yeap, the apps that do work under Android Auto are "dumbed down," less graphics, less capability, etc.

After getting use to using the "full version" of an app on your phone using the same app running under Android Auto (or probably Apple CarPlay) is like comparing a modern car to a half century old car, a world case sprinter to a sprinter with a broke leg, a kinder garden finger painting to a Da Vinci painting, a plain ol' burger to a Burger King Whopper with cheese, bacon, tomato, lettuce, etc. Preaching to the choir I know.

2 hours ago, Pib said:

A SIM upgrade from the original Singapore SIM to the True SIM should have been free for you. It sure was about a year ago when BYD announced the availability of the SIM upgrade which I took advantage of---no charge to upgrade.

Are you sure the "few thousand" baht you paid wasn't for the "periodic checkup" you had done where the dealership also happened to upgrade/swap-out the SIM at the same time. Depending on when a person bought their BYD vehicle their vehicle purchase may or may not have come with "free periodic checkups." I bought my Atto in in Oct 2023 and I have "not" paid one stang for the 5,000, 20,000, 40,000 or 60,000Km period maintenance checkups....because at that time free periodic maintenance checkups for 8 years/160,000Km was provided. But BYD vehicles bought over the last year or so generally do not come with "free" maintenance checkups which is maybe your case?

Below are some snapshots to see if you have a monthly data allotment. Now if you show a monthly data allotment of "zero" Bytes but still show a few kilobytes (KB) being used in the "current day" that data is probably just some low level, core, basic data exchange between the car and the BYD servers doing some basic "mothership to car" communications. Like when I first opened the Data Monitor screen to take below snapshots a Current Day KB of "zero" was shown. Now after playing around for a few minutes on the infotainment screen and then checking the Current Day KB again it show 3KB being used....probably BYD mothership to vehicle low level basic communications which is separate from the 2GB data allotment per month for two years that the vehicle came when when first buying. Since the Singapore SIM to True SIM upgrade/swap-out only added 3 months to the 2 year original data allotment if you've had your vehicle more than 2 years 3 months your Data Allotment will probably show Zero. Zero data allotment means programs like Spotify, Google Map, browser, etc., which require a "data connection" will not fully function and/or give some error messages. And in below last snapshot if you press the "Data Usage" icon it will show what specific programs have been using data, HOWEVER, if the SIM's data allotment has expired in that Data Usage by program area it may still show "old" usage data from when the SIM still did have a monthly data allotment of 2GB.....it's not really current day/month usage....just a stale data reading.

You are correct on all points. I got the car in Jan 2023 so it does have 8 years free check ups.

I thought it cost a few thousand baht for the SIM change but - mea culpa - I now remember that it was free: the few thousand was for some things that weren't included in the free checkup (a deep clean of the a/c system and I think something else which I don't remember now).

Thanks for the tip about how to check the data allowance: I'm not back in Thailand for a couple of weeks so will have a look when back.

Off topic, but I am greatly looking forward to being somewhere free from the madness of 20 mph speed limits and accompanying proliferation of speed cameras.

A summary of recent EV battery degradation surveys available on internet. Judge for yourself.

1) Geotab has updated its survey in 2026: https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/.

They are a fleet mgmt service company operating worldwide. Size survey: 22.7k EVs, 21 models, data points covering 8-10 yrs, 25-30% covering "hot climate" countries like Australia, SE Asia.

How they measure SOH & degradation? According to Geotab: they monitor the actual energy (kWh) flowing into the battery during charging sessions and out of the battery during driving. They extract data from specific "voltage windows" (e.g., measuring the energy required to move from 3.2V to 3.4V per cell). This is similar to a laboratory-grade method to identify chemical degradation without needing a 0-100% cycle.

Interestingly, Geotab’s average degradation rate went from 1.8% in 2024 back up to 2.3% in 2026. This wasn't because batteries got worse, but because:

• More High-Power Charging: Modern EVs support 150kW+ charging, and fleets are using it more often.

• More Hot Climate Data: As they added more vehicles from regions like Southeast Asia and Australia, the global average was "pulled down" by the heat penalty.

  Key insights:
  Average degradation rate: The average annual electric vehicle degradation rate is 2.3%. [ Add 0.4% yearly for hot climate].

• Power: High-power DC fast charging (>100kW) is the single largest stressor, leading to degradation rates up to twice that of the low power charging group (3.0% vs 1.5% per year). 

• Climate: Hot climates impose a penalty on battery life, with vehicles operating in hot conditions degrading 0.4% faster per year than those in mild climates. 

• Utilization: The increase in degradation from high daily use is a measurable but worthwhile trade-off for the gains in fleet productivity and ROI.

• State of charge (SOC): For most EV use, there's no need to worry about avoiding fully charging or emptying the battery. Degradation only speeds up when vehicles spend over 80% of their total time at or near-full or nearly empty charge levels.
  

  2) Morgan Stanley 2026 survey in China. It sampled 100 EVs from different taxi service companies over 12 different EV models. Their conclusion: EV batteries are not created equal. Guess what, EV model 11 and 12 in the picture below is from CATL.
  
  Source: https://cleantechnica.com/2026/01/13/catl-batteries-stand-out-for-minimal-degradation-in-evs-and-long-term-energy-storage-systems/
  
  3) Recurrent is a US service company, where EV owners can connect their EV data into their cloud, so not ODB hardware based. The survey covers 30k+ EVs, US & Canada, data points from 2019 onwards, 30-35% covers "hot climate" US states like Texas, California
  

  Source: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last, https://www.npr.org/2026/03/02/nx-s1-5706658/electric-vehicle-battery-lifespan
  
  "How long will your EV battery last?

  The honest answer is that we don’t know. By and large, electric cars have not been around long enough for us to see how long they last - in part, because they are lasting longer than expected. The best we can do is observe the apparent degradation in those cars on the road.

  Even observations from real world EVs can be challenging since around 75% of the EVs on the road were sold in or after 2023. This means they are far too new to exhibit any meaningful degradation, and that most of the data out there skews towards newer cars."
  

44 minutes ago, 4myr said:

A summary of recent EV battery degradation surveys available on internet. Judge for yourself.

1) Geotab has updated its survey in 2026: https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/.

They are a fleet mgmt service company operating worldwide. Size survey: 22.7k EVs, 21 models, data points covering 8-10 yrs, 25-30% covering "hot climate" countries like Australia, SE Asia.

How they measure SOH & degradation? According to Geotab: they monitor the actual energy (kWh) flowing into the battery during charging sessions and out of the battery during driving. They extract data from specific "voltage windows" (e.g., measuring the energy required to move from 3.2V to 3.4V per cell). This is similar to a laboratory-grade method to identify chemical degradation without needing a 0-100% cycle.

Interestingly, Geotab’s average degradation rate went from 1.8% in 2024 back up to 2.3% in 2026. This wasn't because batteries got worse, but because:

• More High-Power Charging: Modern EVs support 150kW+ charging, and fleets are using it more often.

• More Hot Climate Data: As they added more vehicles from regions like Southeast Asia and Australia, the global average was "pulled down" by the heat penalty.

  Key insights:
  Average degradation rate: The average annual electric vehicle degradation rate is 2.3%. [ Add 0.4% yearly for hot climate].

• Power: High-power DC fast charging (>100kW) is the single largest stressor, leading to degradation rates up to twice that of the low power charging group (3.0% vs 1.5% per year). 

• Climate: Hot climates impose a penalty on battery life, with vehicles operating in hot conditions degrading 0.4% faster per year than those in mild climates. 

• Utilization: The increase in degradation from high daily use is a measurable but worthwhile trade-off for the gains in fleet productivity and ROI.

• State of charge (SOC): For most EV use, there's no need to worry about avoiding fully charging or emptying the battery. Degradation only speeds up when vehicles spend over 80% of their total time at or near-full or nearly empty charge levels.
  

  2) Morgan Stanley 2026 survey in China. It sampled 100 EVs from different taxi service companies over 12 different EV models. Their conclusion: EV batteries are not created equal. Guess what, EV model 11 and 12 in the picture below is from CATL.
  
  Source: https://cleantechnica.com/2026/01/13/catl-batteries-stand-out-for-minimal-degradation-in-evs-and-long-term-energy-storage-systems/
  
  3) Recurrent is a US service company, where EV owners can connect their EV data into their cloud, so not ODB hardware based. The survey covers 30k+ EVs, US & Canada, data points from 2019 onwards, 30-35% covers "hot climate" US states like Texas, California
  

  Source: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last, https://www.npr.org/2026/03/02/nx-s1-5706658/electric-vehicle-battery-lifespan
  
  "How long will your EV battery last?

  The honest answer is that we don’t know. By and large, electric cars have not been around long enough for us to see how long they last - in part, because they are lasting longer than expected. The best we can do is observe the apparent degradation in those cars on the road.

  Even observations from real world EVs can be challenging since around 75% of the EVs on the road were sold in or after 2023. This means they are far too new to exhibit any meaningful degradation, and that most of the data out there skews towards newer cars."
  

I expect our EV battery to outlast myself definitely and also the wife unless it has an oops on the way.

1 hour ago, 4myr said:

A summary of recent EV battery degradation surveys available on internet. Judge for yourself.

1) Geotab has updated its survey in 2026: https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/.

Thanks...above updated Geotab survey is excellent. Indicates maintaining SOC between 20-80% all the time does not have much of any impact on battery degradation unless a person frequently keeps the SOC above 80% for a long period of time. Other report data like "hot" climates (such as Thailand) appear to increase battery degradation 0.4%/year compared to a mild climate is interesting. Everyone should take a slow read of this short report....lots of good battery info.

The report even estimates KhunLA and wife will live at least another 50 years and I really don't think his MG ZS EV will last that long. I'm thinking he'll probably want to buy another MG EV before those 50 years are up...maybe a Cyberster.😄😉

13 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

How fast are you driving on the highway?

120 Km/h on the highway, that's 115km/h true GPS speed.

At 90km/h my range is really good. but it's tiring and need to keep left most of the time and overtaking trucks. it's just easy to cost like everyone else at 120 on the right lane.

at 120kmh my range is 200km (10-80%)

at 90kmh my range is 300km (10-80%)

^ So not an accident then that the us national speed limit used to be 55mph (90kph). Less aerodynamic drag.

2 hours ago, 4myr said:

A summary of recent EV battery degradation surveys available on internet. Judge for yourself.

1) Geotab has updated its survey in 2026: https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/.

They are a fleet mgmt service company operating worldwide. Size survey: 22.7k EVs, 21 models, data points covering 8-10 yrs, 25-30% covering "hot climate" countries like Australia, SE Asia.

Interesting and it confirms my high degradation I faced on the BYD Atto 3.

I have DC Fast charge every day in the week (Mon-Fri) to cope with our daily 150km usage, because almost all stations support 120-180kW then the atto 3 is always charging at the highest power possible it can, and the cooling system cant keep up with the heat from Southern Thailand.

I've been thinking, If I want my next EV car to have least battery degradation, does this logic make sense?

1. if the car has massive head room for charging, i.e.: the MG IM5 396kW DC fast charging, and if I always just charge at either 120kW or 180Kw (most stations here are 120kW) that means the cooling system will have no difficulties cooling the battery and will be able to maintain 30C even if in PTT the road asphalt is radiating 48C at noon.

2. Cars able to charge 350kW or more has a strong cooling system, the MG IM5 is officially rated to drop battery temperatures by 15°C within 30 seconds. So they will have no problems charging at 120-180kW.

3. Those cars with 300kW motors should have a massive head room for discharge and be able to sustain long 120km/h highway road trips without overheating the battery or loosing efficiency.

4,. Having a larger battery pack such as 85kWh-100kWh, means that even 10 years later, after it degraded 20%, the range will still be ok (wife's Atto3 range is 250km because she lost almost 9% already in 3 years, it is now a 55kWh battery pack)

I really love how the new CLA250+ has a 2-gears, it engages the 2nd gear after 100km/h for best efficiency at highway, so that 85kWh battery can do real world highway range of 600 km!!! Impressive no?

The IM5 has a 100kWh battery, no gear like the CLA, and has the same real world highway range of 500-600km.

1 hour ago, brfsa2 said:

120 Km/h on the highway, that's 115km/h true GPS speed.

At 90km/h my range is really good. but it's tiring and need to keep left most of the time and overtaking trucks. it's just easy to cost like everyone else at 120 on the right lane.

at 120kmh my range is 200km (10-80%)

at 90kmh my range is 300km (10-80%)

Where in Thailand can you can "actually maintain" a 120kmh speed for a long distance. Based on my experience it's not the two motorways between Bangkok and Chonburi unless traveling after dark....it's not Rama 2...just where is it.

And yea, I've found my Atto has good range....approx 400km if keeping the speed at/below 90kmh....can even get 420-440km (0 to 100%) during the cooler part of the year in ECO mode....but when cranking it up to 120kmh the electron usage goes up approx 50% compared to 90kmh.

1 hour ago, brfsa2 said:

120 Km/h on the highway, that's 115km/h true GPS speed.

Please explain, does 120 not = 120, or is it the rotation of the Earth slowing you down? 555

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

Where in Thailand can you can "actually maintain" a 120kmh speed for a long distance. Based on my experience it's not the two motorways between Bangkok and Chonburi unless traveling after dark....it's not Rama 2...just where is it.

And yea, I've found my Atto has good range....approx 400km if keeping the speed at/below 90kmh....can even get 420-440km (0 to 100%) during the cooler part of the year in ECO mode....but when cranking it up to 120kmh the electron usage goes up approx 50% compared to 90kmh.

Yes, the difference between 90kmh and 120kmh is massive because of the way the atto 3 is designed with poor drag coefficient Cd.

Bro, here in the south it is not like in the busy Central/North region, highways here are large, smooth like a carpet, and people drive very fast, sustaining 100-120kmh is easy peasy!

2 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Please explain, does 120 not = 120, or is it the rotation of the Earth slowing you down? 555

ok, let me entertain you, I meant 120km/h on the Odometer digital screen.

3 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Please explain, does 120 not = 120, or is it the rotation of the Earth slowing you down? 555

It is due to genetic drift in your case. 120 indicated on vehicle speedo vs GPS on a phone.

1 minute ago, brfsa2 said:

Bro, here in the south it is not like in the busy Central/North region, highways here are large, smooth like a carpet, and people drive very fast, sustaining 100-120kmh is easy peasy!

OK...thanks for pointing out the roads....and yea, the roads with 120kmh speed limits in central Thailand where my driving occurs are usually so busy during daylight hours even the 120kmh lane(s) are in name only as traffic is typically moving along at 80-105kmh except for some short stretches.

42 minutes ago, Pib said:

OK...thanks for pointing out the roads....and yea, the roads with 120kmh speed limits in central Thailand where my driving occurs are usually so busy during daylight hours even the 120kmh lane(s) are in name only as traffic is typically moving along at 80-105kmh except for some short stretches.

here in the south, if driving 120 on the right lane, you will get the cars 10cm from our ass almost every day. LOL.

I'm was shocked when I moved here years ago, plenty of pickups, toyota yaris and corolas doing crazy speeds on the highways.

1 hour ago, brfsa2 said:

Interesting and it confirms my high degradation I faced on the BYD Atto 3.

I have DC Fast charge every day in the week (Mon-Fri) to cope with our daily 150km usage, because almost all stations support 120-180kW then the atto 3 is always charging at the highest power possible it can, and the cooling system cant keep up with the heat from Southern Thailand.

I've been thinking, If I want my next EV car to have least battery degradation, does this logic make sense?

1. if the car has massive head room for charging, i.e.: the MG IM5 396kW DC fast charging, and if I always just charge at either 120kW or 180Kw (most stations here are 120kW) that means the cooling system will have no difficulties cooling the battery and will be able to maintain 30C even if in PTT the road asphalt is radiating 48C at noon.

2. Cars able to charge 350kW or more has a strong cooling system, the MG IM5 is officially rated to drop battery temperatures by 15°C within 30 seconds. So they will have no problems charging at 120-180kW.

3. Those cars with 300kW motors should have a massive head room for discharge and be able to sustain long 120km/h highway road trips without overheating the battery or loosing efficiency.

4,. Having a larger battery pack such as 85kWh-100kWh, means that even 10 years later, after it degraded 20%, the range will still be ok (wife's Atto3 range is 250km because she lost almost 9% already in 3 years, it is now a 55kWh battery pack)

I really love how the new CLA250+ has a 2-gears, it engages the 2nd gear after 100km/h for best efficiency at highway, so that 85kWh battery can do real world highway range of 600 km!!! Impressive no?

The IM5 has a 100kWh battery, no gear like the CLA, and has the same real world highway range of 500-600km.

Many of the cars with fast charging have a different battery chemistry, typically NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) which only lasts around half the charge cycles of BYD’s Lithium Iron Phosphate.

It’s a major consideration if you’re planning on keeping your car a long time. NMC is also more prone to fires and should only be charged to 80% most of the time

As much as the surveys and studies may be accurate and the methods sound, battery breakthroughs are happening almost every month now. So anything from 23 or 24 that is being tested has likely been superceeded with new tech many times over by now making the results meaningful for the models tested but not necisarrily for those that have shifted to next gen tech recently.

While its an obvious point to make, it doesn't make the studies useless, it's important to not get too granular with the findings unless you own the tech they refer to.

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I expect our EV battery to outlast myself definitely and also the wife unless it has an oops on the way.

@KhunLA, I'd wish you a long and happy life together with your wife.

BTW I have asked Gemini to translate the Geotab study into an estimate in which year a LFP EV in a hot climate will drive frequently into limp mode hitting the lower S curve, given a drive of 15k km per year, of which 5k fast charging. Note that the Geotab average is negatively skewed by NMC EVs.

3 hours ago, brfsa2 said:

Yes, the difference between 90kmh and 120kmh is massive because of the way the atto 3 is designed with poor drag coefficient Cd.

Bro, here in the south it is not like in the busy Central/North region, highways here are large, smooth like a carpet, and people drive very fast, sustaining 100-120kmh is easy peasy!

Yep - driving an Atto (or any electric car) at 120 kmh will drain the battery way more than driving at 90 kmh. But, like you, I didn't buy a car to drive at the speed of a large truck.

You have to learn to adapt driving style slightly to a) make reasonable progress on a highway while b) not draining battery at max rate. Try driving 110 kmh indicated. It does make a difference.

However one of the reasons I use my ICE for upcountry travel is because I can drive it faster than 120 if I feel like it (and the roads are clear ie Highway 7 back to Bangkok at night) and not worry about running out of battery. Before my current ICE I had a VW Scirocco, so I get the frustration of 110-120.

On drag - the Atto actually has a good drag Cd of 0.29, same as a Toyota Corolla and better than many other small SUVs.

So, in conclusion - as I said in my first response - I think you are unfairly criticising the Atto. It just sounds like it is not the right car for your particular day-to-day usage and driving style.

5 hours ago, brfsa2 said:

ok, let me entertain you, I meant 120km/h on the Odometer digital screen.

What is entertaining about your speedo showing, what you think, is the wrong speed.

Why would a GPS phone show different than the car.?

In Europe, the speedometer is calibrated in the MOT test and a sticker with the correct reading marked.

The Odometer is the 'mileage counter''

17 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

What is entertaining about your speedo showing, what you think, is the wrong speed.

Why would a GPS phone show different than the car.?

In Europe, the speedometer is calibrated in the MOT test and a sticker with the correct reading marked.

The Odometer is the 'mileage counter''

It is common for the vehicle speedometer to display a slightly higher speed than actual speed....been that way for many decades due to laws/regulations to help ensure people do not unintentionally exceed the posted speed limit.

My 2023 BYD Atto speedometer reads approx 3% higher than actual speed; ditto for my 2009 Toyota Fortuner ICEV. That is, say the speedometer is showing 100kmh I'm actually going around 97kmh.....when going 50kmh per speedometer I'm actually going around 48Kmh.

If using a maps program like Google Maps is will show your true (GPS) speed. Also, on my Atto if I'm monitoring OBD data while driving there is a OBD data reading called "PDC Vehicle Speed" which shows the actual speed of the vehicle which matches up with the GPS speed. The PDC and GPS speeds (actual real world speeds) will be slightly lower than what shows on your speedometer. Of course this assumes a person is using the factory/correct sized wheels on the vehicle.

So, when you get a speeding ticket for doing 93KmH in a 90Kmh zone your speedometer was displaying around 96KmH at the time.

Edited April 28Apr 28 by Pib

5 hours ago, wil iam not said:

What is entertaining about your speedo showing, what you think, is the wrong speed.

Why would a GPS phone show different than the car.?

In Europe, the speedometer is calibrated in the MOT test and a sticker with the correct reading marked.

The Odometer is the 'mileage counter''

In UK there's no calibration of a speedometer during an MOT test.

In fact a typical MOT test doesn't even check if a speedometer actually works (it would only be checked if the vehicle was test driven, which most aren't). It will only fail if it "is clearly not working".

The ATTO 3 is broken again, the problem is back and no longer able to charge above 49kw. Starting at 20% battery with 82.8kw then dropped to 49kw as soon as 5 minutes or 30%.

And it's not even hot outdoors (31C), and the station has shade so the car is not even on the sun. If it was in the sun battery would be reaching 50C already. It's now 46C on the battery which is dangerous high.

What a pity and nightmare this car became to be. Total disappointment

Never again BYD for me.

... To make things worse the BYD service center near me closed so now I have to drive 80Km round trip to the one on the big city.

Jezzzz. I would be expecting them to open more and not close down.

Edited April 29Apr 29 by brfsa2

4 minutes ago, brfsa2 said:

The ATTO 3 is broken again, the problem is back and no longer able to charge above 49kw. Starting at 20% battery with 82.8kw then dropped to 49kw as soon as 5 minutes or 30%.

And it's not even hot outdoors (31C), and the station has shade so the car is not even on the sun. If it was in the sun battery would be reaching 50C already. It's now 46C on the battery which is dangerous high.

What a pity and nightmare this car became to be. Total disappointment

Never again BYD for me.

I think you need a new battery pack.

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think you need a new battery pack.

Even they change to a new battery , this car is still a POS!!! It's the whole car as a whole.

Only a fool would think they will do that anyways.

21 hours ago, brfsa2 said:

Interesting and it confirms my high degradation I faced on the BYD Atto 3.

I have DC Fast charge every day in the week (Mon-Fri) to cope with our daily 150km usage,

No wonder your battery is degrading so quickly. Why you need to DC charge every day for 150km daily usage?