Cooking oil.

[sniggie]

Have I missed a memo somewhere. As a general cooking oil I prefer to use Soy bean oil as opposed to Palm oil. On my shopping trip yesterday Lotus's relevant shelves were wall to wall of Palm oil with not a drop of Soybean oil in sight. No problem, thought I. I'll get some at Makro when I buy my frozen stuff. Same thing there. Palm oil as far as the eye can see but almost no Soybean oil. There were a few 5 litre bottles, far too much for my needs.

 

Has anyone else picked up on this? I know that some European countries are talking about banning both oils on environmental grounds but I haven't heard about any such moves in Thailand.

[Crossy]

Yeah, soy seems to be in short supply, acres of palm oil, we only use these oils for chips/french fries which we don't eat often so palm oil it is ???? 

 

Madam insists on rice-bran oil for shallow frying if she's not got her home-rendered pig lard which along with eggs from our free-range chooks, makes the most delicious fried eggs ever!

 

[KhunBENQ]

Hmm.

There is big concern about Indonesia banning >palm oil< exports.

Expected to lead to higher prices for all oil and possible shortages?

Not sure whether you already feel the effect?

 

The news about Indonesia is scattered among misc Thai language news sources.

Hoarding?

Similar to Germany's sunflower oil crisis

 

Bye, I am off to Makro

Edited April 26, 2022 by KhunBENQ

[Maybole]

Ukraine is the source of more than half of the world supply of sunflower oil and I suspect the big wholesalers are hoarding it. This leads to consumers switching to other oils thus causing a knock on effect of shortages.

[CharlieH]

Big C today didnt seem to be an issue ( stores and regions may vary)

[Lacessit]

Cooking oils can vary substantially in fatty acid composition. E.g. Palm oil is over 50% saturated palmitic acid, whereas canola oil is over 50% oleic acid ( unsaturated ) with only 7% saturated fatty acids.

As a general rule, the more unsaturated an oil is, the healthier it is.

There is also the taste factor. While it is not particularly healthy with 50% saturated lauric acid, IMO coconut oil is definitely the tastiest.

Unsaturated oils are far more likely to turn rancid. I remember from my days as a trainee chemist doing stability testing, one could not kill coconut oil with an axe.

[KhunBENQ]

Just heard a radio report about the Indonesian palm oil export ban.

And to me it's quite obvious that not only private consumers will switch to soy bean (2nd cheapest?) if palm oil (cheapest) is not available.

And where does the palm oil for the B>7< diesel come from?

[ballpoint]

Not just Thailand.  There will be a global shortage of cooking oil as manufacturers look for alternatives to sunflower oil.

 

"France has loosened food packaging rules to temporarily allow manufacturers to replace sunflower oil with other ingredients in the face of supply problems due to the war in Ukraine.

Food manufacturers had alerted the economy ministry several weeks ago about sunflower oil supply issues, after Russia invaded Ukraine, the world's largest sunflower seed grower and sunflower oil exporter. The war has blocked exports and planting and harvesting of the crops has been disrupted. 

After negotiations, manufactures have received the green light from French authorities to replace sunflower oil with other ingredients like colza or even palm oil without immediately changing ingredient lists printed on packaging".

 

France allows ingredient swaps as war in Ukraine hits sunflower oil supply (rfi.fr)

[Will B Good]

15 hours ago, Maybole said:

Ukraine is the source of more than half of the world supply of sunflower oil and I suspect the big wholesalers are hoarding it. This leads to consumers switching to other oils thus causing a knock on effect of shortages.

I hope they don't switch back.

[Steiner]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Cooking oils can vary substantially in fatty acid composition. E.g. Palm oil is over 50% saturated palmitic acid, whereas canola oil is over 50% oleic acid ( unsaturated ) with only 7% saturated fatty acids.

As a general rule, the more unsaturated an oil is, the healthier it is.

There is also the taste factor. While it is not particularly healthy with 50% saturated lauric acid, IMO coconut oil is definitely the tastiest.

Unsaturated oils are far more likely to turn rancid. I remember from my days as a trainee chemist doing stability testing, one could not kill coconut oil with an axe.

Oh you really need to update your research.
2 yrs ago I thought the same way as you, no longer.

Polyunsaturated oils, PUFAs,  are now known to be highly inflammatory and cause issues from Alzheimers to stroke and everything in between.
Saturated fat is actually the healthy fat but there was more money in cheap to produce PUFAs.

Scientists were bribed to hide research favourable to saturated fats or simply fluff the numbers to suit.

I stopped eating that poison and in combination with a carnivore diet cured my arthritis in under 2 weeks.
I went from using a stick to walk with a massively inflamed knee and having pain pulling on my gloves to running every day with my dogs.
6 weeks post oil and on full carnivore I bought a new punchbag, this from a man who had pain pulling motorcycle gloves on and thought I'd never hit a bag again.
I cook with lard, butter, beef tallow and I've never looked back.

What you are quoting is simply big food lies to sell their product.
Big food, big pharma, big banking, we can trust them right? ????

 

There is a reason we are more sick than ever in human history.

Couple of red pills for you...

 

 

 

[86Tiger]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:17 AM, Crossy said:

 

 

"...........home-rendered pig lard.........."

 

Bacon grease for all your cooking needs.  Also, good excuse to cook/eat more bacon.....

[spidermike007]

Avoid palm oil for cooking. It is very toxic. I use only rice bran oil, or sunflower oil. Rice bran is easily available here and inexpensive. Both are very healthy oils. So are safflower, avocado and olive oil. 

 

Palm, canola, cottonseed, and soybean are the worst. Highly toxic stuff. And palm is contributing to major deforestation. Are you comfortable contributing to that? 

 

When digested, GEs break down and release glycidol, a substance known for its carcinogenic effects in animals and its suspected harm to humans. Cancer studies Trusted Source found that administering glycidol to the stomachs of mice and rats caused malignant and benign tumor growths.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/palm-oil-cancer#research

 

Refined palm oil contains glycidol and other harmful fatty acid esters in very high concentrations. There is sufficient evidence that glycidol is genotoxic and carcinogenic, Knutsen noted.

 

https://www.rainforest-rescue.org/petitions/1056/get-carcinogenic-refined-palm-oil-out-of-our-food

 

 

[recom273]

Yes, a couple of weeks ago there was no Canola oil in Khon Kaen Makro, the next choice is coconut or rice bran, none to be had. The shelf was stacked with palm oil as the OP says. We just shrugged it off as Mark is never the best place to buy oil anyway, but as you mention it.

[CharlieH]

Mrs buys a litre a month (soy bean) if that for the Thai kitchen, in the Farang kitchen its butter in a pan or spray Olive oil in the air fryer. Cant honestly think of anything eaten here thats fried in oil in a pan.

[recom273]

Huh? So Canola oil isnt a good standard oil?

 

We deep fry French fries in palm oil as I always understood it to be good at higher temperatures, it was cheap enough, but tastes disgusting for shallow frying. Theres always a bottle of olive oil around, I make pork lard and we can use anything for Thai cooking, coconut or rice bran, but for some reason the wife settled on Canola, I think it was marginally more expensive than sunflower and a smidgen cheaper than rice bran. 

 

Is it time for a change?

Edited April 28, 2022 by recom273

[Crossy]

33 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

Bacon grease for all your cooking needs.  Also, good excuse to cook/eat more bacon.....

 

Yup, she renders pork fat in her cauldron. Pork Scratchings as a by product ???? 

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Maybole said:

Ukraine is the source of more than half of the world supply of sunflower oil and I suspect the big wholesalers are hoarding it. This leads to consumers switching to other oils thus causing a knock on effect of shortages.

Most plausible explanation. We went to lotus about 10 days ago and there huge gaps where the sunflower/canola/rice oils should have been. Still plenty of soya bean oil but I could see that going next, we only took a couple of bottles as we are off to UK shortly.

At least here there is palm oil to fall back on.

[sandyf]

23 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Is it time for a change?

Good chance you will have little option.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Steiner said:

Oh you really need to update your research.
2 yrs ago I thought the same way as you, no longer.

Polyunsaturated oils, PUFAs,  are now known to be highly inflammatory and cause issues from Alzheimers to stroke and everything in between.
Saturated fat is actually the healthy fat but there was more money in cheap to produce PUFAs.

Scientists were bribed to hide research favourable to saturated fats or simply fluff the numbers to suit.

I stopped eating that poison and in combination with a carnivore diet cured my arthritis in under 2 weeks.
I went from using a stick to walk with a massively inflamed knee and having pain pulling on my gloves to running every day with my dogs.
6 weeks post oil and on full carnivore I bought a new punchbag, this from a man who had pain pulling motorcycle gloves on and thought I'd never hit a bag again.
I cook with lard, butter, beef tallow and I've never looked back.

What you are quoting is simply big food lies to sell their product.
Big food, big pharma, big banking, we can trust them right? ????

 

There is a reason we are more sick than ever in human history.

Couple of red pills for you...

 

 

 

Belief is a marvelous thing.

I have no doubt you believe you are better off on saturated fats, and you may be right. It's already known different racial groups assimilate food differently by adaptation to their environment, there's no other way to explain the Inuits, who live off a diet of mainly protein and fat.

The Mediterranean diet has olives and olive oil as one of its bases, recommended by the Mayo clinic for heart health. Permit me to doubt the two presenters on the YouTube videos posted would make it onto A Mayo Clinic employment shortlist. They are fringe presenters, typical of what one can find on every form of social media.

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801

 

The reason we are more sick than ever in human history is very simple. We eat too much.

Statistically, most of the deaths in the current pandemic are obese people.

 

The Japanese have probably the best record for longevity and good health - modest portions, fresh seafood and vegetables, very limited fat intake. Seafood is mostly PUFA's.

 

As I have made it to age 78 ( soon to be 79 ) on what I think is a sensible diet, let me know when you get there on yours.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Avoid palm oil for cooking. It is very toxic. I use only rice bran oil, or sunflower oil. Rice bran is easily available here and inexpensive. Both are very healthy oils. So are safflower, avocado and olive oil. 

 

Palm, canola, cottonseed, and soybean are the worst. Highly toxic stuff. And palm is contributing to major deforestation. Are you comfortable contributing to that? 

 

When digested, GEs break down and release glycidol, a substance known for its carcinogenic effects in animals and its suspected harm to humans. Cancer studies Trusted Source found that administering glycidol to the stomachs of mice and rats caused malignant and benign tumor growths.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/palm-oil-cancer#research

 

Refined palm oil contains glycidol and other harmful fatty acid esters in very high concentrations. There is sufficient evidence that glycidol is genotoxic and carcinogenic, Knutsen noted.

 

https://www.rainforest-rescue.org/petitions/1056/get-carcinogenic-refined-palm-oil-out-of-our-food

 

 

I assume by GE you are referring to genetically-engineered oils. Here's a news flash - genetically-engineered oils are chemically indistinguishable from the naturally-occurring version. Canola oil on supermarket shelves is 99% genetically-engineered, I have not heard of mass poisonings as a result.

 

All oils and fats are mainly fatty acid esters, principally triglycerides with a smattering of mono- and di- glycerides.

 

The assumption because a chemical is carcinogenic in rats and mice, it is therefore carcinogenic in humans, has always been dubious. For example, dioxin is absolutely lethal to horses in very minor doses. We get exposed to dioxins on a daily basis via the foods we eat, principally fats. Obviously Paracelsus was onto something when he said the dose makes the poison, otherwise we would all be clutching our throats.

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I assume by GE you are referring to genetically-engineered oils. Here's a news flash - genetically-engineered oils are chemically indistinguishable from the naturally-occurring version. Canola oil on supermarket shelves is 99% genetically-engineered, I have not heard of mass poisonings as a result.

 

All oils and fats are mainly fatty acid esters, principally triglycerides with a smattering of mono- and di- glycerides.

 

The assumption because a chemical is carcinogenic in rats and mice, it is therefore carcinogenic in humans, has always been dubious. For example, dioxin is absolutely lethal to horses in very minor doses. We get exposed to dioxins on a daily basis via the foods we eat, principally fats. Obviously Paracelsus was onto something when he said the dose makes the poison, otherwise we would all be clutching our throats.

True. But the chemicals are just one aspect of it. I am the only one in my family who uses only rice bran and sunflower oil. I am also the only one who is not on cholesterol medication, as we all have a pre-disposition to high cholesterol. One of my sisters is off the charts. Coincidence? Could be. Or maybe there is something to using only higher quality oils, with a higher flash point, for cooking. The cost is nominal. Why not use them? 

[mstevens]

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Avoid palm oil for cooking. It is very toxic. I use only rice bran oil, or sunflower oil. Rice bran is easily available here and inexpensive. Both are very healthy oils. So are safflower, avocado and olive oil.

Rice brain oil has its advantages for sure with zero cholesterol and you can cook at high heat and it won't break down. Just be aware that it is very high in Omega6s....so best not to consume too much of it.

 

Avocado oil is the sweet spot for taste and also not breaking down at high heat. A shame it is so expensive.

 

I use rice brain oil sparingly (only use it when I deep fry which is not often), avocado oil and extra virgin olive oil. Frying Thai style dishs in avocado oil works well, in my opinion. There is a slightly funky flavour with avocado oil which is odd at first but I rather like it - and knowing the health benefits of avocado oil / lack of downsides of many other oils makes it worth it to me.

Edited April 28, 2022 by mstevens

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

True. But the chemicals are just one aspect of it. I am the only one in my family who uses only rice bran and sunflower oil. I am also the only one who is not on cholesterol medication, as we all have a pre-disposition to high cholesterol. One of my sisters is off the charts. Coincidence? Could be. Or maybe there is something to using only higher quality oils, with a higher flash point, for cooking. The cost is nominal. Why not use them? 

If that's what you believe, go for it. It may have some basis in fact, as some oils do contain minor amounts of cholesterol - less than 1%. Having said that, a statistical sample of one is not enough to be making conclusions.

You should be using safflower oil, not sunflower oil.

https://www.seriouseats.com/cooking-fats-101-whats-a-smoke-point-and-why-does-it-matter

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, mstevens said:

I use rice brain oil sparingly (only use it when I deep fry which is not often), avocado oil and extra virgin olive oil. Frying Thai style dishs in avocado oil works well, in my opinion. There is a slightly funky flavour with avocado oil which is odd at first but I rather like it - and knowing the health benefits of avocado oil / lack of downsides of many other oils makes it worth it to me.

The pros and cons become irrelevant when the product is unavailable. Every chance that very soon it will be palm oil or palm oil.

[ChrisP24]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The pros and cons become irrelevant when the product is unavailable. Every chance that very soon it will be palm oil or palm oil.

Cooking oil lasts for a couple of years if stored properly.  Even before the pandemic started I begain storing a few months supply and rotating it out.  Hopefully global supply chains will be in better shape two years from now.    And there is always locally-produced extra virgin coconut oil.

[sandyf]

12 minutes ago, ChrisP24 said:

Cooking oil lasts for a couple of years if stored properly.  Even before the pandemic started I begain storing a few months supply and rotating it out.  Hopefully global supply chains will be in better shape two years from now.    And there is always locally-produced extra virgin coconut oil.

Good thinking.   I warned my wife a while back but Thais in general have difficulty seeing past the immediate future.

Not really a big deal for us, we don't do any deep frying and very little frying in general.

[LennyW]

Stick to beef dripping!

[Bert got kinky]

6 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Stick to beef dripping!

 

My local butcher keeps dripping......... ????

 

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, ChrisP24 said:

Cooking oil lasts for a couple of years if stored properly.  Even before the pandemic started I begain storing a few months supply and rotating it out.  Hopefully global supply chains will be in better shape two years from now.    And there is always locally-produced extra virgin coconut oil.

Coconut oil is the most stable oil one can buy.

There is an oil stability test called the Swift test, that I remember from 60 years ago. It consists of bubbling air through oil in a test tube, while being heated in a paraffin bath. The oil is tested for peroxide value periodically, which indicates when the oil has turned rancid.

Most materials - beef tallow, palm oil etc. break down after 50 - 100 hours. Coconut oil could go for more than 500 hours without breaking a sweat.

[ChrisP24]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Coconut oil is the most stable oil one can buy.

There is an oil stability test called the Swift test, that I remember from 60 years ago. It consists of bubbling air through oil in a test tube, while being heated in a paraffin bath. The oil is tested for peroxide value periodically, which indicates when the oil has turned rancid.

Most materials - beef tallow, palm oil etc. break down after 50 - 100 hours. Coconut oil could go for more than 500 hours without breaking a sweat.

Yep, I buy the big 84-oz tubs of coconut oil and store it in the fridge so that it stays solidified, and use that to refill the smaller jar that we keep out at room temperature.  I think that more of it gets used for hair, skin etc than for cooking but it is handy stuff to have around.  I even have a dollop of it in my coffee right now as I'm writing this.