UK bank accounts and investments with Visa Elite

[EscapetheUK]

If i'm staying in Thailand long term on an Elite Visa what is my status in terms of residency? I've read in the forums the Elite Visa is a form of Tourist Visa?

 

My reason for asking and posting in the Banking forum is i'm concerned about my bank accounts and investments in the UK as i've heard horror stories of UK accounts being frozen / closed if no longer a UK resident. I plan to stay in Thailand permanently so more than the 180 days i've also seen mentioned. I will continue to maintain my UK address but wont be living there.

 

Specifically i have UK current and savings accounts and a stocks and shares ISA which i hope to continue to hold and operate from Thailand. 

 

Does the Elite Visa regard me as a tourist therefore meaning i'm not resident? Even after 180 days? Will i have any problems regarding my UK banks if they knew i was living long term in Thailand.

 

Thanks in advance for any feedback and apologies if this should have been posted in the Visa forum.

[Eff1n2ret]

Aside from those who obtain citizenship or Permanent Residence we're all "Non-Immigrants" as far as Thailand is concerned, but if you are permanently living here UK authorities and banks, etc will regard you as non-resident and your Visa, Elite or otherwise, is of no interest to them.

When I moved here 12 years ago, my bank (First Direct) and credit card (HSBC) were quite happy to maintain my accounts with a Thai address, and I still retain one ISA - BUT I can't open any new bank, cc or ISA accounts.

It rather depends on your bank, some are more relaxed about retaining emigrating customers than others. It may depend on how long you've been with them or how much you keep on deposit. I still have a house in the UK, but as it's rented out I can't claim it as my address. If you still have friends or family in yours it might be possible to keep it as your address for banking and other purposes.

[lungbing]

I've been here over 20 years.  HSBC UK are well aware of that and have no problem maintaining my account.  I get a monthly statement from them when I transfer my pensions.  (Although the statement arrives as and when the postman feels like it)

[topt]

@Eff1n2ret covers most of this but my take -

4 hours ago, EscapetheUK said:

as i've heard horror stories of UK accounts being frozen / closed if no longer a UK resident.

Depends on your bank and may depend if you can maintain a UK address which is best set up before you leave. However current and current savings accounts should not be an issue.

 

4 hours ago, EscapetheUK said:

Specifically i have UK current and savings accounts and a stocks and shares ISA which i hope to continue to hold and operate from Thailand. 

Most "banks" say you need to be UK resident to open new savings accounts. Up to you if you open a new one online and say you are......

 

Legally you can operate already opened ISAs but you cannot add new money to them.

 

You don't mention a SIPP but again you can add to those for 5 years after becoming non resident but not after that.

 

To become non-resident for tax you need to notify HMRC - it does not happen automatically - whether or not you are officially tax resident in Thailand is not relevant to them.

 

[brianthainess]

Nationwide do not freeze your bank account, but if you need anything sent by mail, like a new card reader or new card no tracking numbers are given, have an address in the UK so they can send it to you registered, just changed my address back to the UK as my postman delivers NOTHING EVER ! not even my monthly bill from TOT. I have an on-going dispute with Thai post head office who are 'investigating' where 2+ years of mail has gone, I have given them one month before i place a police report. I'm not holding my breath on any outcome.

[Eff1n2ret]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

my postman delivers NOTHING EVER !

Ditto here in Banchang, Rayong. Since the start of Covid (or so it seems) the service has collapsed. The first item I received since last summer was in February, a thank you letter for grandkids' Christmas presents - the envelope had been chewed by mice!

By the way, OP or any UK non-residents, if you want to release savings from the ludicrous rates paid by UK banks, it is possible to open accounts paying a bit more in the Channel Islands or, I believe, the Isle of Man.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Eff1n2ret said:

By the way, OP or any UK non-residents, if you want to release savings from the ludicrous rates paid by UK banks, it is possible to open accounts paying a bit more in the Channel Islands or, I believe, the Isle of Man.

But just beware that the Financial Services Compensation Scheme deposit guarantee limit of £85,000 only covers UK accounts. Offshore accounts are usually subject to lower limits, typically £50,000.

[Geordieabroad]

As far as i can see there's nothing to worry about.  I have been in Thailand for 7 years on retirement extension.  I sold my property in UK  and gave up UK residence when i came to live here and informed Barclays bank of my new address in Thailand.  I have a current account and cash ISA with Barclays, they even send new debit and credit cards by post to my Thai address.  I also have UK premium bonds, never been a problem

[EscapetheUK]

Thanks for the feedback, it's good to know that there are UK banks that are happy to maintain accounts for ex-pats, i'll reach out to my bank and get their take on it (it's Halifax by the way in case anyone has any specific feedback on them).

 

@topt regarding 'To become non-resident for tax you need to notify HMRC' do you know if i have to go down the tax self assessment route when i leave the UK even if my taxable income will be below the personal allowance - i've read that if you stay below your personal allowance you don't need to complete any self assessment, does that sound right?

 

[topt]

11 minutes ago, EscapetheUK said:

@topt regarding 'To become non-resident for tax you need to notify HMRC' do you know if i have to go down the tax self assessment route when i leave the UK even if my taxable income will be below the personal allowance - i've read that if you stay below your personal allowance you don't need to complete any self assessment, does that sound right?

My understanding is "officially" you need to ask them and you may have to do the first year but after that they should  tell you no need.

The other thing is a lot of people don't bother to inform them at all. Either because they don't realise, or they want to maintain UK tax residency for some reason.

[salavan]

On 5/8/2022 at 7:44 PM, topt said:

@Eff1n2ret covers most of this but my take -

Depends on your bank and may depend if you can maintain a UK address which is best set up before you leave. However current and current savings accounts should not be an issue.

 

Most "banks" say you need to be UK resident to open new savings accounts. Up to you if you open a new one online and say you are......

 

Legally you can operate already opened ISAs but you cannot add new money to them.

 

You don't mention a SIPP but again you can add to those for 5 years after becoming non resident but not after that.

 

To become non-resident for tax you need to notify HMRC - it does not happen automatically - whether or not you are officially tax resident in Thailand is not relevant to them.

 

HMRC self assessment ask if you are resident for tax purposes in the county where you live so it must be relevant to them somehow 

[topt]

2 hours ago, salavan said:

HMRC self assessment ask if you are resident for tax purposes in the county where you live so it must be relevant to them somehow 

I have just completed a tax return and it is not clear to me exactly which question you refer to. Can you specify?  For example are you referring to SA109 Residence in Other Countries boxes 19-22?

[salavan]

2 hours ago, topt said:

I have just completed a tax return and it is not clear to me exactly which question you refer to. Can you specify?  For example are you referring to SA109 Residence in Other Countries boxes 19-22?

SA109 box 18

Quote

"enter the code or codes for the country or countries, other than the uk in which you were resident for tax purposes" 

[topt]

8 hours ago, salavan said:

SA109 box 18

Quote

"enter the code or codes for the country or countries, other than the uk in which you were resident for tax purposes" 

Yes sorry I meant 18-22.

For what it is worth I left box 18 blank last year and have done so again this year.

It is relevant to HMRC re DTA's with other countries and claiming relief but since I am not, rightly or wrongly, I have ignored.

 

[salavan]

8 hours ago, topt said:

Yes sorry I meant 18-22.

For what it is worth I left box 18 blank last year and have done so again this year.

It is relevant to HMRC re DTA's with other countries and claiming relief but since I am not, rightly or wrongly, I have ignored.

 

Yes I did the same

I'm not even sure what I am here, Thailand and UK have a double taxation agreement anyway 

 

[Pmbkk]

 

Can't you just tell the HMRC you are no longer earning/working so they take you off self-assessment?

[lungbing]

HMRC told me a while ago that I no longer needed to  self-assess every year as my only income was from UK pensions that were taxed at source.  But they did note that should my circumstances change I must inform them.

[topt]

2 hours ago, salavan said:

Thailand and UK have a double taxation agreement anyway 

Yes but it has limited application for most people here. For example the only pensions covered by the DTA are "government" ie civil service and forces. State and private pensions are not included in the scope.

[digital]

On 5/17/2022 at 9:37 AM, topt said:

Yes sorry I meant 18-22.

For what it is worth I left box 18 blank last year and have done so again this year.

It is relevant to HMRC re DTA's with other countries and claiming relief but since I am not, rightly or wrongly, I have ignored.

 

Sorry to bring up an old thread I can make new if mods prefer.

 

I'm looking at doing the SA109, its a not that easy to follow, can anyone offer any advice?

 

I am out of the Uk for more than 10yrs (only 10 days in uk) previously done my tax return online which I now know I shouldn't have done as it didn't include SA109 (I have spoken to HMRC and this is being sorted out). I have rented UK property which is under the personal allowance so don't actually pay any tax, no other income.

 

Q1-14 I think I have understood,

Q15-17 I will just X in Q16 entitled to personal allowance (as hold british passport), Q17 enter code for countries you are resident, I guess I would be resident in Thailand (I'm on annual extensions) so THA.

Q18-22 Residence in other countries, do I need this part? Q18 asks which countries you are tax resident in, being in Thailand over 180 days means I'm tax resident here, but do I need to do this, if you fill in Q18 it expect you fill in Q19, 20-22 are about double taxations agreement so don't need this?

Q23-27 Domicile I don't think I need?

Q28-39 Don' think I need?

 

Thanks.

[topt]

48 minutes ago, digital said:

Sorry to bring up an old thread I can make new if mods prefer.

 

I'm looking at doing the SA109, its a not that easy to follow, can anyone offer any advice?

 

I am out of the Uk for more than 10yrs (only 10 days in uk) previously done my tax return online which I now know I shouldn't have done as it didn't include SA109 (I have spoken to HMRC and this is being sorted out). I have rented UK property which is under the personal allowance so don't actually pay any tax, no other income.

 

Q1-14 I think I have understood,

Q15-17 I will just X in Q16 entitled to personal allowance (as hold british passport), Q17 enter code for countries you are resident, I guess I would be resident in Thailand (I'm on annual extensions) so THA.

Q18-22 Residence in other countries, do I need this part? Q18 asks which countries you are tax resident in, being in Thailand over 180 days means I'm tax resident here, but do I need to do this, if you fill in Q18 it expect you fill in Q19, 20-22 are about double taxations agreement so don't need this?

Q23-27 Domicile I don't think I need?

Q28-39 Don' think I need?

 

Thanks.

I am similar except I pay tax on rental income.

 

Rightly or wrongly (but it hasn't been queried yet after quite a few years) under question 15 I leave blank, 16 put X in the box as you say but for 17 I put GBR as a UK national.

I also do annual extensions but I don't want to confuse HMRC plus it is not clear (to me ) if they mean resident or tax resident .........

 

Again as you suggest above I leave all the other questions on the second page blank. 

[digital]

8 hours ago, topt said:

I am similar except I pay tax on rental income.

 

Rightly or wrongly (but it hasn't been queried yet after quite a few years) under question 15 I leave blank, 16 put X in the box as you say but for 17 I put GBR as a UK national.

I also do annual extensions but I don't want to confuse HMRC plus it is not clear (to me ) if they mean resident or tax resident .........

 

Again as you suggest above I leave all the other questions on the second page blank. 

Thanks,

 

I was about to say I don't think you should put GBR in Q17, but actually on reading it again it says "countries of which you are a National and/or resident" So as a British National should put GBR but I'm not sure if should put THA also.

 

I'm on annual extensions, so I'm not a permanent resident but as a temporary resident do I need to then put THA in Q17 as well as GBR? for Q18 (resident for tax purposes) I'm in Thailand longer than 180 but have no income here, so am I tax resident as far as HMRC is concerned? I just want to make sure I am non resident when I come to CGT in the future.

 

HMRC are not much help they just say cant advise on residence in UK or other countries.

 

The reason I am doing this now and realised my mistake not doing SA109 for >10yrs and only doing online returns is that I am considering selling my UK property so for CGT want to make sure I am non resident (non residents are only liable for CGT for gains after April 2015 - rebasing).

I spoke to HMRC without giving them any personal details, they said I should print and sent in paper copies of SA109 going back to 2018/2019 to correct my mistake.

 

HMRC are not helpful they say cannot advise on your residence status in UK or other countries.

[LivinLOS]

Comes down to the bank.. You will do better with a more 'expat friendly' bank like HSBC. 

Barclays closed my accounts after 20 years banking there with short notice, they refuse to say why but that account was Thai address based. 

[topt]

14 minutes ago, digital said:

The reason I am doing this now and realised my mistake not doing SA109 for >10yrs and only doing online returns is that I am considering selling my UK property so for CGT want to make sure I am non resident (non residents are only liable for CGT for gains after April 2015 - rebasing).

As long as you are officially non resident with HMRC (did you notify them when you left with form whatever it is?) I don't think it will make any difference what you put in box 17 as regards paying CGT on a UK property sale as an expat.

In fact as an expat I think we now will pay more than under the old system of using principal private residence relief if you had lived there before. Did you get a valuation done at the time of the change?

 

For other Capital Gains  as non resident you are of course exempt. 

 

As a national of UK the GBR entry in Box 17 is clear. Although HMRC post my tax return to my address here in Thailand, and I cross the box in page 1 saying I have a home elsewhere, unless they query it I will leave THA off to avoid any potential confusion. Up to you as they say! 

[Onerak]

On 5/8/2022 at 3:24 AM, EscapetheUK said:

i've heard horror stories of UK accounts being frozen / closed if no longer a UK resident.

I don't believe it. UK is not  China that they could dictate you where you live and freeze your money. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Onerak

[digital]

43 minutes ago, topt said:

As long as you are officially non resident with HMRC (did you notify them when you left with form whatever it is?) I don't think it will make any difference what you put in box 17 as regards paying CGT on a UK property sale as an expat.

In fact as an expat I think we now will pay more than under the old system of using principal private residence relief if you had lived there before. Did you get a valuation done at the time of the change?

 

For other Capital Gains  as non resident you are of course exempt. 

 

As a national of UK the GBR entry in Box 17 is clear. Although HMRC post my tax return to my address here in Thailand, and I cross the box in page 1 saying I have a home elsewhere, unless they query it I will leave THA off to avoid any potential confusion. Up to you as they say! 

It was a long time ago but remember filling in some form and I got a tax rebate for that year I left, I also registered as non resident landlord so the agent doesn't take off tax.

 

For CGT on property non residents are only exempt for gains up to April 2015 when it changed, I did not live in the property as a private residence any time after 2015 so I think only now get 9 month PRR. So my CGT liability is April 2015 to the day I dispose of the property. I didn't pay for a valuation at 6 April 2015, but an agent valued it and I have a copy of the email in June 2015 and 10 months earlier June 2014 my neighbour with an identical property sold so I have that also.

 

Yes makes sense for Q17, maybe I will do the same just put GBR and nothing in Q18 onwards. The technical officer at HMRC did say I probably only needed to complete up to box 19.

 

-Thanks

Edited June 15, 2022 by digital
added more info

[digital]

1 hour ago, digital said:

Yes makes sense for Q17, maybe I will do the same just put GBR and nothing in Q18 onwards. The technical officer at HMRC did say I probably only needed to complete up to box 19.

Just an update on this part, GBR does not appear in the list of country codes in the 'HMRC Residence, remittance basic etc notes'  Great Britain, United Kingdom is not listed there is only code ZZZ for 'None of the above'

[digital]

5 hours ago, digital said:

Just an update on this part, GBR does not appear in the list of country codes in the 'HMRC Residence, remittance basic etc notes'  Great Britain, United Kingdom is not listed there is only code ZZZ for 'None of the above'

I have been talking to HMRC again, a very chatty technical officer.

 

He says if you are a British Citizen X Box16 (which we knew) he said Box17 can be left bank, before there used to be a code for GBR but that isn't used anymore, only need to fill in code for other countries. He says fill in THA in box 18 to ensure you get tax allowances. The rest past Box 19 onwards don't need (in my case).

[topt]

6 hours ago, digital said:

Just an update on this part, GBR does not appear in the list of country codes in the 'HMRC Residence, remittance basic etc notes'  Great Britain, United Kingdom is not listed there is only code ZZZ for 'None of the above'

oops - I probably just copied last years.....

[topt]

1 hour ago, digital said:

He says fill in THA in box 18 to ensure you get tax allowances.

Presume you mean 17?

Also what allowances - did he specify any as I can't think of any that would apply to most? 

[digital]

2 minutes ago, topt said:

Presume you mean 17?

Also what allowances - did he specify any as I can't think of any that would apply to most? 

No I thought that, he said I didn't need to put anything is 17, but to put in 18 to get personal allowance as a British Citizen (also follows what I was told yesterday by a different officer to fill in boxes up to 19) Didn't really get the reason behind it he just said to get personal allowance, but I did specifically ask about 17 and then said so 17 I leave blank, he agreed.