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Crypto.com ponzi falling apart


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Guess that naming a company and calling it a Ponzi scheme would be defamation here does it still apply?

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Thailand said:

Guess that naming a company and calling it a Ponzi scheme would be defamation here does it still apply?

I think defamation is only when something is untrue.😉

Edited by dj230
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54 minutes ago, dj230 said:

I think defamation is only when something is untrue.😉

you are correct - although denigration is similar and still a punishable offense in many countries even if true.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

Nope, there is no “lock up” period. Go and read their website again. You can unstake at any time. By doing so, you forgo any further card benefits, that’s it. 
 

And indeed, I didn’t know about the announced cashback rate reduction. Fair enough. However, this is hardly a shocker; the reduction only kicks in after the 180 day staking period. At which point you can simply unstake and stop using the card, or accept the 1% reduction in the cashback rate (all other card benefits remain in place).

 

Everything crypto’s a ponzi these days, eh? You do understand crypto.com can mint whatever tokens they need to pay out rewards? At the worst, holders are being diluted. But crypto.com has zero need to pay out rewards using staked CRO, so I fail to see how this would qualify as a “ponzi”?

 

Something else you apparently have difficulty wrapping your head around is that unstaking does not equal exchanges your CRO for fiat or other currency. You can unstake and continue to hold CRO for as you as you please. Additionally, you have no clue at what price anybody has purchased their staked CRO. A year ago, its price was about half of what it is today. Anybody who initialized their stake then is still looking at unrealized profits at this point.

 

Finally, I couldn’t care less about the the cashback rates. Even 0% I’d be a happy camper as I simply need a solid card to spend crypto with. I bought CRO at a fraction of what it’s worth today, so even unstaking now and cashing out would leave with a nice profit.

Well, I've already posted their direct website link and quote which states you have to "lock" up the funds in their coin for 180 days, so that isn't a real debate at this point, maybe you misunderstood what the requirements were to get the card. 

 

It's a ponzi because of how their business model works, a credit card charges roughly under 3% in fees, lets just say 3%. The card processor takes around 0.25% then theres the card network, so let's just say the company gets roughly 2.75% from each transaction.

 

This mean anymore than 2.75% in reward from purchases from the customer is going to be coming out the pockets of the company, where do they get this cash from? Well in this case, how do you qualify for the card? Staking CRO. So this is all fine and dandy as long as the coin keeps going up because the company makes so much money they can afford to pay out the future customers with the previous customers "pump" of the coin. Now the coin is falling, so it's not working out so well anymore, so they have to cut rewards/incentives, what does this do? It causes less people to get the card, less people stake, and more people to sell and cash out due to less incentives thus the coin falls even more due to less people buying the coin to stake and this process repeats itself. 

 

Glad you got in early, as with all Ponzi's those who get in first make money, those who get in last lose money, but when the ponzi falls apart everyone loses everything, ergo Luna Coin. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dj230
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Again, the 180 staking period is ONLY required in order to get the benefits. You can unstake at any time if you’re willing to give up those benefits.

 

As for the ponzi discussion… there’s nothing that indicates that crypto.com

has a need to tap into staked funds to pay out rewards. Why would they? They own the currency and can mint at their leisure to pay out rewards. Downside being inflation and dilution of CRO holders. Still not an ideal situation however, at a fundamental level, not all that different from my Amex card paying rewards denominated in the most inflated currency in human history. As long as existing investors aren’t paid by investments of new investors… not a ponzi. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, mjnaus said:

Again, the 180 staking period is ONLY required in order to get the benefits. You can unstake at any time if you’re willing to give up those benefits.

 

As for the ponzi discussion… there’s nothing that indicates that crypto.com

has a need to tap into staked funds to pay out rewards. Why would they? They own the currency and can mint at their leisure to pay out rewards. Downside being inflation and dilution of CRO holders. Still not an ideal situation however, at a fundamental level, not all that different from my Amex card paying rewards denominated in the most inflated currency in human history. As long as existing investors aren’t paid by investments of new investors… not a ponzi. 

https://help.crypto.com/en/articles/3744398-crypto-com-soft-staking

 

Direct from their website "Staked CRO can not be withdrawn until the committed 6 months duration is complete."

Quote

How is this different from staking CRO?

“CRO Staking” is different as it requires you to stake a minimum of 10,000 CRO for 6 months on Crypto.com Exchange. CRO Staking is rewarded with its own range of benefits: rebates, 10% APR, & Syndicate access. Staked CRO can not be withdrawn until the committed 6 months duration is complete.

The whole point of staking is in itself a ponzi to cause crypto's to go up because it causes influx of buying pushing prices up while staking removes the ability to sell. It increases demand and reduces supply. 

 

How else would they pay for the rewards to members if not for taking it from their assets? Money isn't just free, they have to get it from somewhere.

 

It is quite different from American Express, they pay out their rewards in points, for cash back cards they use the portion of their transaction fees/annual fees to pay out rewards. No cash back visa's offer 4%+ rewards as it makes no sense because credit cards only charge 2-3% in fees to merchants

Edited by dj230
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58 minutes ago, dj230 said:

The whole point of staking is in itself a ponzi

Yeah.  I’ve never understood the whole “staking” thing (other than it being completely unsustainable).

 

The forum crypto king (no need to name names) talks about 100% returns.  What on earth is the company doing in order to get returns of over 100% being they need to make a profit above that 100% in order to pay out those sky high returns?
 

I once knew a guy who in early 2021 was telling me he was buying Bitcoin and lending it out (I assume that is what “staking” means) and that he was promised 35% returns.  He tried to explain the mechanics of it by saying that the company would take his half a coin, combine it with another persons half a coin and then turn around and sell the whole coin.  I asked him how the whole coin could be worth 35% more than the sum of the two parts?  
 

He couldn’t answer of course.  

 

When I tried to run the numbers, he and his Thai girlfriend became quite angry and barked out “change the subject!!!”.

 

Another guy told me he was getting 2% daily one time.  Even after the scheme unraveled and he lost all the money put into it, he still couldn’t admit that he was suckered by a con.  Strangely enough, the same conman (UK based) is still active and not in jail.

 

It’s really simple math and I don’t understand how people fall for it.

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Posted (edited)

Whatever people are talking about I have no clue. I only understand stocks and bonds and mutual funds and index funds etc. And I have cool 3 mil in my bank account. And yes they are fiat and only if US does not exist on the face of the earth, I will lose all my money in the bank. I know many people in Wall Street have lost fortune betting against Japanese Yen in 90s and Japan is still going strong. I have in the USA and continue to hold my fiat currency instead of some thing that I can use for my hotel bookings or restaurant expenses. 

Edited by CartagenaWarlock
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7 hours ago, dj230 said:

I think defamation is only when something is untrue.😉

Not in Thailand.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thailand said:

Not in Thailand.

I’ll let you know if RTP knocks on my door for my crypto.com post 

Edited by dj230
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Posted (edited)

I wanted their metal card but fortunately my application was rejected after I posted a negative review about their dodgy compliance and coin staking reqs and regs on a crypto forum. They probably thought they had the last laugh when they blocked me 😅 Acting all royal-ish and legit but I knew all along that their staking scam was just that: an elaborate and sophisticated scam. For want of a card, you're forced to acquire CRO tokens and stake them. Not just any other token with solid liquidity and reputation but it must be that one token they control. Pity the naive and gullible who fell for their ruse.

 

A card overtly scammy. I already had my doubts during cryptocom's infancy. Back then they had grand plans, making the joining process look like an elite and illuminati-ish privilege for VIPs. If however you put their card limits under a microscope, there really is nothing spectacular or brag-worthy about the cards. It's just another non-head-turning prepaid card.

 

Happy with my Wirex and Cryptopay cards. Used both for years sans any issues.

 

 

Edited by mvdf
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1 hour ago, mvdf said:

I wanted their metal card but fortunately my application was rejected after I posted a negative review about their dodgy compliance and coin staking reqs and regs on a crypto forum. They probably thought they had the last laugh when they blocked me 😅 Acting all royal-ish and legit but I knew all along that their staking scam was just that: an elaborate and sophisticated scam. For want of a card, you're forced to acquire CRO tokens and stake them. Not just any other token with solid liquidity and reputation but it must be that one token they control. Pity the naive and gullible who fell for their ruse.

 

A card overtly scammy. I already had my doubts during cryptocom's infancy. Back then they had grand plans, making the joining process look like an elite and illuminati-ish privilege for VIPs. If however you put their card limits under a microscope, there really is nothing spectacular or brag-worthy about the cards. It's just another non-head-turning prepaid card.

 

Happy with my Wirex and Cryptopay cards. Used both for years sans any issues.

 

 

Just get an American Express platinum card if you want a metal card. They’ve been accepting everyone that has a good credit score. Their first year reward bonuses pay for the annual fee and because they have the highest merchant fees (and they’re both the bank/card issuer and the card network) they’re able to give you better rewards. 
 

 

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Posted (edited)

So what did the OP expect? Some magic insane good yearly yields without having to do any work + then put all your money in one basket? You could say everything is a ponzi then, once it fails.

 

Just poor investment choices and ideas, I never stake more than what I am willing to lose, per coin or platform or even commodity or stock. Aside of that you then never get hurt by a maximum cap of reward per month either and still get what they promised without any issues.

The OP his/her reasoning is like those of the wannabe digital nomads, the fake ones, who all copy each other and expect to get 1 million subscribers and pink unicorns. Then after making 40 videos and no results, they call youtube a scam for the low advertising payouts. Even that might be irrelevant, the OP is a very naive and poor investor by decision making.

Who invests for rewards on cards with huge amounts in the first place, that is as silly as credit card points, where you often actually lose unless being one of the very few who hacks it properly (in the old days).

 

You should be investing to have returns in cash, that are your reward to spend on anything you like, at any minute. Without losing initial fund.

Last but not least, the average long term stock investor also comes across points where it could have dropped 40% in between, but long term still make huge profits. To then talk about 80% drop of the high is silly as well, it actually did what every crypto coin do, go to an extreme high and return to base value, to then grow gradually.

If you dislike that risk, you have to be a day trader and get out of your trades when it drops 1-2% at most and still close them within the day if the results aimed for didn't happen + learn to read charts. Or be a swing trader with max loss for a few days or week.

 

Continue to buy high and sell low + cry on forums. Maybe make a new topic too to complain bitcoin is a ponzi as you bought at 70K usd.

Edited by ChaiyaTH
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9 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

So what did the OP expect? Some magic insane good yearly yields without having to do any work + then put all your money in one basket? You could say everything is a ponzi then, once it fails.

 

Just poor investment choices and ideas, I never stake more than what I am willing to lose, per coin or platform or even commodity or stock. Aside of that you then never get hurt by a maximum cap of reward per month either and still get what they promised without any issues.

The OP his/her reasoning is like those of the wannabe digital nomads, the fake ones, who all copy each other and expect to get 1 million subscribers and pink unicorns. Then after making 40 videos and no results, they call youtube a scam for the low advertising payouts. Even that might be irrelevant, the OP is a very naive and poor investor by decision making.

Who invests for rewards on cards with huge amounts in the first place, that is as silly as credit card points, where you often actually lose unless being one of the very few who hacks it properly (in the old days).

 

You should be investing to have returns in cash, that are your reward to spend on anything you like, at any minute. Without losing initial fund.

Last but not least, the average long term stock investor also comes across points where it could have dropped 40% in between, but long term still make huge profits. To then talk about 80% drop of the high is silly as well, it actually did what every crypto coin do, go to an extreme high and return to base value, to then grow gradually.

If you dislike that risk, you have to be a day trader and get out of your trades when it drops 1-2% at most and still close them within the day if the results aimed for didn't happen + learn to read charts. Or be a swing trader with max loss for a few days or week.

 

Continue to buy high and sell low + cry on forums. Maybe make a new topic too to complain bitcoin is a ponzi as you bought at 70K usd.

You must be mistaken, I was having a laugh at the Ponzi, I wasn't gullible enough to fall for it. 

 

Glad to hear your thesis on all crypto's dropping 80%+, then growing gradually, you must have loaded the boat on Luna coin

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people buy coin with the cash that had, and lose it all, so where does all those money goes

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4 hours ago, dj230 said:

You must be mistaken, I was having a laugh at the Ponzi, I wasn't gullible enough to fall for it. 

 

Glad to hear your thesis on all crypto's dropping 80%+, then growing gradually, you must have loaded the boat on Luna coin

Kris plays dirty pool and this is very disappoint but no need to gloat cuz

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Duke University Law Lecturer (and former SEC enforcement chief) John Reed Stark:

 

1653242085018?e=1653912000&v=beta&t=jDU0wTL2y-55p0e2qZkGD94bK7Yi2h9hG8WZj0mEqQU

I was looking into crypto last night and it’s quite silly, even the creators of the coins/exchanges say that they’re ponzis but people are so naive to fall for it that they profit from it. 
 

One person made a crypto and it was clearly a ponzi, he’s rich now and said all he has to do to make more money is mint more coins because people buy it. 
 

I will admit, it was a genius idea for the creators/exchange owners to get rich. He was saying it’s like a casino, you run the casino and tell people how much money they can win but you never play the games yourself.  
 

I also read a lot of crypto veterans are starting to get sentenced to prison though, the terms aren’t that crazy, 5 years but they probably made hundreds of millions/billions 

Edited by dj230
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On 5/22/2022 at 12:00 AM, tgw said:

you are correct - although denigration is similar and still a punishable offense in many countries even if true.

Not correct for Thailand.

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