"ATM scam" - myth or reality ?

[redsongthaew]

1 hour ago, Baron Samedi said:

It's funny though how "customer" becomes specifically synonymous with "tourist" when it comes to pay the equivalent of the daily minimum wage in fees to "maintain the ATM network" ????????????

 

The nice thing is that you have options if you do not want to pay the ATM fee.

 

1. You can set up your own international card processing and ATM network.

2. You can get a bank account with a bank that does not charge ATM fees of this kind, such as this one that has no foreign transaction fees and unlimited ATM fee rebates.

3. You can bring cash with you and exchange it at a very competitive rate. Many people do this.

4. You can use fintech. You said that you, "Can't wait for day fintech is gonna disrupted all this". Come to Thailand and convert some crypto directly to cash with a local user. However if you do this you know as well as I do that you will be paying 5-10% of the trade to do this, which is going to be massively more than 220 baht. So much for crypto and fintech at this time.

5. You can design your vacation in a way that only requires card payments, so that you can avail yourself of the standard mastercard/visa rate.

 

Lots of choices, from the almost impossible to the highly possible. The most important thing is that you can take action and solve your problems with the advice given in this topic, instead of being victimized for 220 baht by very bad corporations.

[redsongthaew]

16 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

That being said, it might be about time for Thailand to enter the 21th century and offer decent digital payment options. I should be able to pay street food vendors with my phone in 2022.

 

The root cause of this nonsense is laziness.

Legacy businesses not willing to embrace technology because... well... let's keep fxxxxxx people up the xxx, it's so much easier.

The root cause of all this is that Thailand is a developing country and not a highly developed country. Not that long ago Thailand didn't have widespread distribution of electricity, surfaced roads or mass transport.

 

NFC payments are just starting to emerge, which is a key driver in terms of the adoption of electronic payments and micro payments.

 

It's not about laziness at all.

[Gottfrid]

18 hours ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

time and effort?   im at the bank anyway-----a fool n his money are soon parted

Yes, you are so right! Just add that if that fool is in Thailand and can´t afford 220 baht with every 20-30k withdrawal, then it´s the pure essence of a fool. It´s not the money that has departed as that person obviously don´t have enough. It´s the brain, and that is what at the end makes the fool. 

[Baron Samedi]

21 minutes ago, redsongthaew said:

The root cause of all this is that Thailand is a developing country and not a highly developed country. Not that long ago Thailand didn't have widespread distribution of electricity, surfaced roads or mass transport.

 

NFC payments are just starting to emerge, which is a key driver in terms of the adoption of electronic payments and micro payments.

 

It's not about laziness at all.

I know Thailand is a developing country. It's also a country that is quickly falling in the middle income trap and a country that will soon be stopped in its ability to prosper due to its demographics. Many developing nations around the globe have adopted NFC payments.

 

Thailand is lagging behind and its running out of time.

The demand for frictionless experiences is only gonna increase and the tolerance for abuses of dominant position is only gonna decrease.

 

Thai banks are pissing a lot of people off - that is a fact.

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Baron Samedi

[billd766]

19 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

This time and effort to simply save 220thb or whatever?

 

My God ????

Do that twice a month for a year, and it will cost you 5,280 baht. Yes it IS worth the time and effort unless you are very rich and don't care about money.

Edited May 30, 2022 by billd766
Correcting Bad spelling

[itsari]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And your point is?

That if years ago a service was free that is has to be free forever?

There was also a time when people received reasonable interest on their money in the bank...

What your point ?

You are talking of interest rates of 40 years back.

Now the rates are on the increase .

ATM charges for foreigners to obtain there own money from abroad is a fraud . 

Time for a change 

[billd766]

9 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

...and yet my USA bank charges an additional $5 USD for each ATM transaction I do here in Thailand because the ATM machine is not one of theirs.

I have no foreign ATM cards and use the KBank. If I use my ATM card out of province (Kamphaeng Phet) it costs me 20 baht. If I use a different bank ATM, another 20 baht.

 

If I used my card in a shop out of province it is free, or at least no charge is shown. Go figure.

[OneMoreFarang]

12 minutes ago, itsari said:

ATM charges for foreigners to obtain there own money from abroad is a fraud .

Why?

Let's say you go here to the ATM and you withdraw the equivalent to 500USD.

So that 500USD will be withdrawn from your account i.e. in the USA.

Why pays for the ATM machines? Who pays for the computers? Who pays for the software? Who pays for the data transmission? Who pays for the management of all that? Who pays when something goes wrong?

 

IMHO 220 THB is cheap for that service. And I am sure if that kind of service (ATM, bank transfer, etc.) would cost 1,000THB then people would still use it, because they need that service.

 

[Baron Samedi]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And I am sure if that kind of service (ATM, bank transfer, etc.) would cost 1,000THB then people would still use it, because they need that service.

 

That's exactly the problem ????

The Thai banks cartel has a monopoly.

The lack of competition enables them to abuse their dominant position.

 

(220THB is actually pretty expensive if you compare to other countries where some banks apply zero ATM fees - Singapore for example)

[itsari]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why?

Let's say you go here to the ATM and you withdraw the equivalent to 500USD.

So that 500USD will be withdrawn from your account i.e. in the USA.

Why pays for the ATM machines? Who pays for the computers? Who pays for the software? Who pays for the data transmission? Who pays for the management of all that? Who pays when something goes wrong?

 

IMHO 220 THB is cheap for that service. And I am sure if that kind of service (ATM, bank transfer, etc.) would cost 1,000THB then people would still use it, because they need that service.

 

Machines are cheaper than humans in a bank .

If you can not see that I give up.

I have exchanged money from a ATM machine in many countries and never met the charge Thailand banks charge

[Mac Mickmanus]

21 hours ago, Baron Samedi said:

On some websites, they call it the "ATM scam".

By the same people that call tuk-tuk drivers the "Mafia"

If you want to use the machine, you need to pay the cost of using that machine , if you dont want to pay the cost, then don't use it .

  Should the banks give you a free carrier bag to carry your money home in as well ?

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, fasteddie said:

You're having a laugh, they're the first to moan, how do you think they got rich?

I got rich and i am spending.

[Mac Mickmanus]

52 minutes ago, itsari said:

What your point ?

You are talking of interest rates of 40 years back.

Now the rates are on the increase .

ATM charges for foreigners to obtain there own money from abroad is a fraud . 

Time for a change 

Change then, stop using them .

Change right there 

[itsari]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Change then, stop using them .

Change right there 

I do not any more as I have a Thai bank account.

But the fact remains that Thai banks are charging where other countries banks do not

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, itsari said:

I do not any more as I have a Thai bank account.

But the fact remains that Thai banks are charging where other countries banks do not

Many other Countries do also charge for ATM usage though , its NOT just Thailand 

[itsari]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Many other Countries do also charge for ATM usage though , its NOT just Thailand 

Please enlighten us what countries do the same

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, itsari said:

Please enlighten us what countries do the same

Have a look yourself 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATM_usage_fees

[Baron Samedi]

47 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

By the same people that call tuk-tuk drivers the "Mafia"

If you want to use the machine, you need to pay the cost of using that machine , if you dont want to pay the cost, then don't use it .

  Should the banks give you a free carrier bag to carry your money home in as well ?

It would probably be the case if they had more competition.

The tuk-tuk mafia is part of the exact same monopoly problem.

If the island wasn't so corrupted you would have Uber drivers everywhere already.

Better for the drivers, better for the customers.

But hey ! I guess some influential people somewhere don't see it that way ????

 

[Guest truthman]

21 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

The rate has been in place for a very long time and advertised, so how is it a scam? They want rich tourists who don't moan about a couple of hundred THB.

You mean they want idiot tourists who won't scream when they're F---ed

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

It would probably be the case if they had more competition.

The tuk-tuk mafia is part of the exact same monopoly problem.

If the island wasn't so corrupted you would have Uber drivers everywhere already.

Better for the drivers, better for the customers.

But hey ! I guess some influential people somewhere don't see it that way ????

 

Didnt the Tuk Tuk drivers , or their Families sell prime land on the understanding they could be the islands taxi drivers or something ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, truthman said:

You mean they want idiot tourists who won't scream when they're F---ed

Why would they be errrm "F---ed" ?

No one has to use ATM's

[Baron Samedi]

29 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Have a look yourself 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATM_usage_fees

It shows that Thailand is more expensive than the most expensive developed nation on earth when it comes to ATMs ????

 

Utter scam ! Period.

[Baron Samedi]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Didnt the Tuk Tuk drivers , or their Families sell prime land on the understanding they could be the islands taxi drivers or something ?

Maybe. I don't know. But if it's the case, it's an anti free market scheme and the tuk tuk drivers are essentially a cartel.

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

It shows that Thailand is more expensive than the most expensive developed nation on earth when it comes to ATMs ????

 

Utter scam ! Period.

Do you understand what the word "scam" means ?

Its when you trick or deceive someone .

When you make a ATM withdrawal , the cost of using the machine is displayed for you and you are given an option of whether to proceed or not .

  So, its not a "scam" .

Also, just because Thailand doesn't have the Worlds cheapest ATM's , that doesn't make it a scam either 

[Baron Samedi]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Do you understand what the word "scam" means ?

Its when you trick or deceive someone .

When you make a ATM withdrawal , the cost of using the machine is displayed for you and you are given an option of whether to proceed or not .

  So, its not a "scam" .

Also, just because Thailand doesn't have the Worlds cheapest ATM's , that doesn't make it a scam either 

Come on Mac. You know this is just the way people talk. They see it and describe it as a scam when really it is an abuse of dominant position. But nobody talks like that in real life. I think that we all understand the idea behind "ATM scam". Thai banks are essentially holding you by the balls and squeezing gently ????

 

 

[itsari]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

What your point ?

You are talking of interest rates of 40 years back.

Now the rates are on the increase .

ATM charges for foreigners to obtain there own money from abroad is a fraud . 

Time for a change 

Time for what ?

More money to obtain your own money??

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Baron Samedi said:

Come on Mac. You know this is just the way people talk. They see it and describe it as a scam when really it is an abuse of dominant position. But nobody talks like that in real life. I think that we all understand the idea behind "ATM scam". Thai banks are essentially holding you by the balls and squeezing gently ????

 

 

Who do you think should pay for the ATM , the cost of buying it  ?

Who should pay the electric running costs ?

Who should pay the guys who regularly  fill the machine up with cash and their armored vehicles ?

   Who should pay the costs ?

 

[Baron Samedi]

25 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Who do you think should pay for the ATM , the cost of buying it  ?

Who should pay the electric running costs ?

Who should pay the guys who regularly  fill the machine up with cash and their armored vehicles ?

   Who should pay the costs ?

 

An ATM machine costs a couple of thousand dollars and can last for years. Thai banks probably order them in bulk so they might even pay less than that per machine. Electricity is dirt cheap in Thailand. So is the workforce.

 

By applying a fee of 7$ on each withdrawal in areas like Patong, they probably make enough money to buy a new ATM every week or so. Frankly the cost argument doesn't hold.

 

Btw Banks don't count on ATMs to make money. This is not how they operate. The core of their business is lending.

 

But let say they really need the money. The average fee is simply too high compare to what you'd be charged elsewhere.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Baron Samedi

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Baron Samedi said:

An ATM machine costs a couple of thousand dollars and can last for years. Thai banks probably order them in bulk so they might not even pay 1000$ per machine. Electricity is dirt cheap in Thailand. So is the workforce.

 

By applying a fee of 7$ on each withdrawal in areas like Patong, they probably make enough money to buy a new ATM every week or so. Frankly the cost argument doesn't hold.

 

Btw Banks don't count on ATMs to make money. This is not how they operate. The core of their business is lending.

I didnt ask how much ATM's cost .

Who do you think should pay for the actual costs ?

You think that someone should pay the cost and you get it for free

[Baron Samedi]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I didnt ask how much ATM's cost .

Who do you think should pay for the actual costs ?

You think that someone should pay the cost and you get it for free

I think that, if we follow your line of reasoning, the ATM fee should be aligned with the cost of buying and running the ATM. Something like 20-40THB per withdrawal seems fair and wouldn't force people to withdraw large amounts.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Baron Samedi