LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Thailand J]

By "self health insurance" you meant keeping $100,000 cash in a bank account, Thai or foreign bank.

Keeping cash is not what I want to do. in 2013 i poured all my cash holding of my portfolio into Berkshire Hathaway at $103 per share, at market closing yesterday BRK/B was $361 per share. At the same time inflation has eroded the dollar purchasing power by 25% in the last decade. Next decade could be worse as high inflation may linger around for a while.

If you add another $250,000 brought into Thailand to qualify for the visa, the real cost is HUGE. I am sure you have your own reasons to do so, and I hope the benefits out weight the real cost of your visa.

 

This is how much cash I keep  :)

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Thailand J

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, Thailand J said:

By "self health insurance" you meant keeping $100,000 cash in a bank account, Thai or foreign bank.

 

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, Thailand J said:

Keeping cash is not what I want to do. in 2013 i poured all my cash holding of my portfolio into Berkshire Hathaway at $103 per share, at market closing yesterday BRK/B was $361 per share.

 

I did similar with BRK with an equity account ... and I still hold more than $100K worth.  Yes it has gone up nicely and I have greatly benefited.  But as you note, that can NOT be used for Self Health insurance.  An equity account will not be accepted for Self Insurance as I suspect BoI do NOT want to accept self health insurance where one is using their equity trading account to provide such, where stocks in an equity account go up and down. BoI do not want to have to judge the value of one stock.

 

Still, I have a diversified portfolio and I do NOT put all my assets in one stock nor do I put all my assets in equities.  I hold bonds and  cash and other assets. Diversification is very important to me.

 

If keeping $100K US aside for self health insurance stretches one finances, or takes away money that one dearly needs or wants to spend elsewhere, then clearly self health insurance is not suitable for one. But I already have excellent (superior to Thai requirements) Health Insurance which Thailand doesn't accept as my insurance company refuses to provide information in the format Thailand wants.  And the $100k amount bearing a low return , which is needed for Self Health insurance was not an issue for me.  Clearly those with less money will think otherwise.

 

So that self health insurance works fine for myself.  Obviously it is totally unsuitable for others.

 

Clearly for others where not putting that money in equities is a very  BIG DEAL then do NOT go the self insurance route.

 

Each of us have different financial situations.

[Thailand J]

 $100,000 is not a big deal to me one way or another.

It's just not how I would manage my money.

17000B to 25000B is 0.8% of $100,000, it's a no brainier to invest the money and pay the insurance, but only to me,you should do what you are comfy with.

[oldcpu]

47 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

 $100,000 is not a big deal to me one way or another.

It's just not how I would manage my money.

17000B to 25000B is 0.8% of $100,000, it's a no brainier to invest the money and pay the insurance, but only to me,you should do what you are comfy with.

Two points - (1) my checks for health insurance to meet the requirements for my age required MORE than 17k to 25k THB.   And  (2) $100k US$ equivalent, even in an interesting bearing account, as small part of a very large diversified portfolio, is not unusual -and some (dependent portfolio size) might say prudent - and it can give a modest return (together with any larger prudently selected equity returns).

 

As you state - each do what they are comfortable with.  I am NOT comfortable putting all my liquid assets into equities. My diversified investment strategy for the past 40 years has worked well for me. Others clearly have different strategies ... I do note I have acquaintances who threw all their assets in equities, did NOT do well in some times - and they are still trying to recover. In my case, the cash was VERY useful for a very rapid rebound to buy when equities bottomed and just started to recover.   Again - as you suggest - go with what one is comfortable with and what has worked for one..

Edited November 28, 2023 by oldcpu

[Northwest87]

16 hours ago, Thailand J said:

By "self health insurance" you meant keeping $100,000 cash in a bank account, Thai or foreign bank.

Keeping cash is not what I want to do. in 2013 i poured all my cash holding of my portfolio into Berkshire Hathaway at $103 per share, at market closing yesterday BRK/B was $361 per share. At the same time inflation has eroded the dollar purchasing power by 25% in the last decade. Next decade could be worse as high inflation may linger around for a while.

If you add another $250,000 brought into Thailand to qualify for the visa, the real cost is HUGE. I am sure you have your own reasons to do so, and I hope the benefits out weight the real cost of your visa.

 

This is how much cash I keep  :)

 

 

 

 

They don't ask you to keep 100K in cash ad vitam eternam. They only ask that, at the time of your application, you have been holding 100K cash for 12 months in an allowed account, and you don't have to prove continuation after providing initial proof (if I understand properly of course). Please see the exact wording below.

 

Financial evidence showing a deposit of no less than 100,000 USD (or 25,000 USD in
case of dependents only) which has been held for no less than 12 months at the time of
application

 

 

[TravelerEastWest]

10 hours ago, Northwest87 said:

They don't ask you to keep 100K in cash ad vitam eternam. They only ask that, at the time of your application, you have been holding 100K cash for 12 months in an allowed account, and you don't have to prove continuation after providing initial proof (if I understand properly of course). Please see the exact wording below.

 

Financial evidence showing a deposit of no less than 100,000 USD (or 25,000 USD in
case of dependents only) which has been held for no less than 12 months at the time of
application

 

 

What about the 5 year followup paperwork?

[Captain Monday]

On 11/23/2023 at 4:50 AM, oldcpu said:

Investing in the Thai government bonds was one of the more difficult aspects for me to obtain the LTR-WP visa.

 

I went (with my Thai wife) to a number of different banks to see if I could purchase bonds through them, and in the end, Bangkok Bank was the only one that would facilitate the selling of Thai government bonds to me, if I had the appropriate bank account with the necessary funds (for the bond purchase) in the account.  We had to talk to the head manager of this specific branch of Bangkok Bank, who stated I could buy such a bond ONLY if I had a foreign "pink-ID" card and "yellow book", which I had.  I do not know if such is nominally required but he insisted on it. So please do not shoot the messenger.

 

So I transferred a couple of million THB into Bankgok Bank account (as the amount I transferred was all the additional amount (above the nominal amount I had in the bank) that I needed for the bonds to achieve the $250K US$ equiv investment in Thailand) ... and I waited for the next announcement of a sale of Thai government bonds, which came up in December of last year.  Through Bangkok Bank I placed an order for the bonds, which took a lot of time at the counter to place said order.

 

Possibly what took the most time at the counter was they wanted a Thai tax-ID to enter into the online bond purchase entry form.  To the best of my knowledge I have no such number. The person at the counter started making noises that i could not likely then buy such a bond when I pointed out the bank regularly deducted tax money from interest in my account - so what do they do with that tax money they deduct?  ... What number do they apply for that?  The then went into a 'pow-wow' (a few employees puzzling over this question), when my wife broke the impasse by suggesting they enter the ID # from my pink ID into their system, and see if it is accepted as a tax #.  IMHO it is likely it is NOT a tax # on the pink ID (although it IS the tax number on nominal Thai IDs), but the bank entered the number and the Bangkok Bank system accepted it.  Go figure.

 

A few weeks later, I received a phone call that my bond had been purchased and I was to come to the bank.  I showed up, and they gave me a Thai bond bank book, but no bond certificate. According to the bank, only bonds with no certificate were issued now adays.  Fine.

 

So I submitted photo-copies of my bond book to BoI for my LTR-Visa application and they rejected it !!  They insisted on getting a bond certificate (where a certificate typically provides more information on the specific bond,  than information a bond bank book provides - such as the bond maturity date, the bond interest ...  None of which is nominally in the bond book  ).

 

I went back to Bangkok bank, asked for a certificate, and after a long time (where the person at the counter made many phone calls asking how to do it), they had me fill in/sign a form, pay them a nominal (trivial) amount of money for a certificate, and stated they would call me when the certificate arrived.  A week later no certificate. We phoned. No certificate. Two weeks later the same. Eventually after what seemed the longest time, I was asked to come in to the bank.  They advised they would not issue a certificate, but instead gave me a letter simply stating I owned the bond.  I almost went ballistic but my wife calmed me down, and I explained to them that would not likely be accepted by BoI as BoI had explained to us on the phone, they needed formal indication of bond maturity date and bond interest.

 

So after a short pow-wow the Bank staff had an entry printed formally into the last page of my bond book, stating bond maturity and bond interest.  

 

I then scanned that, sent it to BoI and it was accepted.  That was an adventure, and it was part of the delay in my LTR_WP visa application being accepted.

So, one bank in Thailand will sell a bond

They put you thru weeks of hardship 

Then not even provide a certificate 

 

“Why I don’t apply for LTR” 

In my case having to lock into USD $500k worth of govt bonds. 

[Thailand J]

9 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

They don't ask you to keep 100K in cash ad vitam eternam.

 

 

9 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

What about the 5 year followup paperwork?

Deposit replaces insurance which must be keep , that's my understanding.

 I would seek clarification from BOI if I had $100000 deposit instead of Insurance.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Thailand J

[K2938]

12 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

What about the 5 year followup paperwork?

It is not know yet, but it would appear that at the minimum they will ask again for proof that you held this deposit for at least one year and it might well turn out to be five years, i.e. since the start of your visa.

[Northwest87]

3 hours ago, K2938 said:

It is not know yet, but it would appear that at the minimum they will ask again for proof that you held this deposit for at least one year and it might well turn out to be five years, i.e. since the start of your visa.

 

This is speculation, as this is not what the requirement says, explicitly or implicitly. When in doubt, you have to fall back on what the text says, and here it's: "at the time of application", nothing more. As written, I see it as the applicant providing proof that he/she is solvent at the level that constitute "wealthy" for the purpose of the LTR. I may well be wrong, but I haven't asked the BOI because it's not my case (yet).

 

The requirement for medical insurance is "at least 10 months" at the time of application. Here again ,there is no explicit or implicit requirement to maintain coverage after that time. I agree though that for those using the 100K, it's a question to clarify with the BOI, but rules have changed before and they may change again within 5 years.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Northwest87

[oldcpu]

7 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

So, one bank in Thailand will sell a bond

There may be more - this was just my experience

 

7 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

They put you thru weeks of hardship 

Then not even provide a certificate 

 

I would not call that "hardship" ...  As I posted elsewhere, most of the time I spent trying to get the LTR visa, was sitting on my condo balcony, over looking the sea (with my laptop PC on a balcony table), while I sipped a drink and enjoyed the ambience.  Far from hardship -  and further, most of the time when I was NOT on my balcony was simply waiting.

 

I guess you and I have very different definitions of hardship. 

 

7 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

 

“Why I don’t apply for LTR” 

In my case having to lock into USD $500k worth of govt bonds. 

 

For the size of my portfolio, I would 100% agree re: USD $500K worth of Thai government bonds is not desirable.  And unlike myself, not everyone is into buying a condo in Thailand (where one can easily find incredibly nice condos for that price in Phuket - with fabulous views).  I FULLY understand that buying a condo is not something one may desire to do - ESPECIALLY if it is only being done to get a certain Visa.

 

Fortunately Thailand has MANY other Visa options than just the LTR.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by oldcpu

[Northwest87]

Duplicate post, sorry

Edited November 30, 2023 by Northwest87

[Misty]

7 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

So, one bank in Thailand will sell a bond

They put you thru weeks of hardship 

Then not even provide a certificate 

 

“Why I don’t apply for LTR” 

In my case having to lock into USD $500k worth of govt bonds. 

 KBANK's bond desk (specialized department inside KBANK) has also sold LTR visa holders gov't bonds.  

[Misty]

51 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

For the size of my portfolio, I would 100% agree re: USD $500K worth of Thai government bonds is not desirable.  And unlike myself, not everyone is into buying a condo in Thailand (where one can easily find incredibly nice condos for that price in Phuket - with fabulous views).  I FULLY understand that buying a condo is not something one may desire to do - ESPECIALLY if it is only being done to get a certain Visa.

 

A good point - it is situational dependent.  For some folks this amount of Thai gov't bonds may not be an issue and a better option than buying a condo.

[TravelerEastWest]

7 hours ago, K2938 said:

It is not know yet, but it would appear that at the minimum they will ask again for proof that you held this deposit for at least one year and it might well turn out to be five years, i.e. since the start of your visa.

Sounds right...

[Captain Monday]

On 11/29/2023 at 9:04 PM, oldcpu said:

 would not call that "hardship" ...  As I posted elsewhere, most of the time I spent trying to get the LTR visa, was sitting on my condo balcony, over looking the sea (with my laptop PC on a balcony table), while I sipped a drink and enjoyed the ambience.  Far from hardship -  and further, most of the time when I was NOT on my balcony was simply waiting.

 

I guess you and I have very different definitions of hardship. 

 

 

 

Sorry for writing in superlatives, a pet peeve is the farang "nightmare", like meaning waiting 30 minutes at a bank.

 

So I am just as guilty the unfortunate comment on your  process to purchase a Thai government bonds. I have been buying 1-3 month CDs online all year with nifty rates from Schwab 5% plus, takes seconds.

Now I am moving to a premium deposit account with JP Morgan.  Just call broker in-and- same day no fees/commisions currently 4.4 per annum 

On 11/29/2023 at 9:04 PM, oldcpu said:

 I would 100% agree re: USD $500K worth of Thai government bonds is not desirable.  And unlike myself, not everyone is into buying a condo in Thailand (where one can easily find incredibly nice condos for that price in Phuket - with fabulous views).  I FULLY understand that buying a condo is not something one may desire to do - ESPECIALLY if it is only being done to get a certain Visa.

 

Fortunately Thailand has MANY other Visa options than just the LTR.

 

 

I am a fly-in fly out guy working overseas so the only category I qualify is wealthy global person so LTR is burdensome but I'm not impressed with Thai govt bond rates. Already own a condo. I would be interested in selling and buying another Thai condo with better amenities different location, but not the way things have been going the last few years. Probably stick with the OA

[DodgerRodger]

A question for those already holding the LTR visa if I may.  If I successfully obtain a WP LTR and arrive to stay in BKK area, how can I obtain a certificate of residence in order to get a driving licence from DLT?  My research tells me such a certificate can only be obtained from Immigration (my Embassy has ceased providing this service) and only after submitting a first 90-day report.  Under the LTR I envisage not needing to do the 365-day report for many years as I will be travelling in/out too regularly, too regularly to even manage a 90-day report.

 

Grateful for any insight.

 

Dodger

[TravelerEastWest]

1 hour ago, DodgerRodger said:

A question for those already holding the LTR visa if I may.  If I successfully obtain a WP LTR and arrive to stay in BKK area, how can I obtain a certificate of residence in order to get a driving licence from DLT?  My research tells me such a certificate can only be obtained from Immigration (my Embassy has ceased providing this service) and only after submitting a first 90-day report.  Under the LTR I envisage not needing to do the 365-day report for many years as I will be travelling in/out too regularly, too regularly to even manage a 90-day report.

 

Grateful for any insight.

 

Dodger

Just email the BOI staff they respond quickly and accurately

[OneZero]

Could someone please provide the link to the fillable /downloadable  TM 95 LTR Adress Reporting form.  Thanks.

[Pib]

38 minutes ago, OneZero said:

Could someone please provide the link to the fillable /downloadable  TM 95 LTR Adress Reporting form.  Thanks.

Doubtful there is a link to any immigration webpage with the TM95 as supposedly they don't want people mistakenly trying to use it to do 90 day reporting (requires TM7) or SMART visa people using it for their annual reporting which requires a TM91 form.

Don't know why BoI has posted the TM95 on the BOI LTR website yet.  BOI emailed me below blank form in August.

 

TM.95 blank.pdf

Edited December 12, 2023 by Pib

[aublumberg]

2 hours ago, DodgerRodger said:

A question for those already holding the LTR visa if I may.  If I successfully obtain a WP LTR and arrive to stay in BKK area, how can I obtain a certificate of residence in order to get a driving licence from DLT?

 

Got mine from Immigration Department at Chamchuri Square, that's where BOI issues your LTR visa, used at DLT for same reason.

[OneZero]

29 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

TM.95 blank.pdf 179.09 kB · 1 download

Pib,

I downloaded the blank TM.95 form but am unable to fill /type information onto it. I don't know what I may be doing wrong.

Do you have any suggestions? 

[Thailand J]

TM 95 is on page 16 but it's not fillable: https://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2565/E/204/T_0024.PDF

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, OneZero said:

Pib,

I downloaded the blank TM.95 form but am unable to fill /type information onto it. I don't know what I may be doing wrong.

Do you have any suggestions? 

You gotta use an old fashion ink pin....it's not fillable with a computer.  As mentioned BoI provided.

[K2938]

"Those who obtain the LTR visa are exempted from paying personal income tax on their foreign assets or earnings.

 

Since the launch of the scheme in September 2022, over 3,000 LTRs have been granted to foreigners. In the weeks since the Sep 15 announcement of the new tax regulation, there has been a 14 per cent increase in LTR applications, according to sources."

 

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/international/asean/thailands-tweak-tax-regulation-foreign-income-sparks-confusion-worries

[Northwest87]

I know it has been discussed in this thread, but I personally haven't been able to delete any docs from my "Rejected" status application. I can go into the file and delete the PDF files one by one, but everything comes back after changing screen (no option to finalize anything).

 

If any of you have done this, or got the BOI to do it, could you please share. Thanks in advance,

NW

Edited December 12, 2023 by Northwest87

[MPoll]

9 hours ago, K2938 said:

"Those who obtain the LTR visa are exempted from paying personal income tax on their foreign assets or earnings.

 

Since the launch of the scheme in September 2022, over 3,000 LTRs have been granted to foreigners. In the weeks since the Sep 15 announcement of the new tax regulation, there has been a 14 per cent increase in LTR applications, according to sources."

 

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/international/asean/thailands-tweak-tax-regulation-foreign-income-sparks-confusion-worries

 

I am cautiously optimistic about this but I am still going to keep a close eye on this topic next year as interpretations of the tax law become clearer. 

[1tent42]

Hello folks,

 

I retired early this year so I have not completed one full year retirement yet.  If my full year of retirement pension will be in April 2024 (it meets the LTR annual pension requirement), would I be eligible to apply for the LTR WP then?  Should I wait until 2025 to apply so the income tax returns would be simpler then? 

 

I'm on an OA visa now and is valid until December 2024.  But I'd like to get the LTR visa next year to receive the tax exemptions if possible.

 

Thanks!

[JimGant]

13 hours ago, Pib said:

You gotta use an old fashion ink pin....it's not fillable with a computer.  As mentioned BoI provided.

 

Just create your own fillable fields using Adobe Acrobat. Yeah, I know -- the cost is ridiculous, plus you can't buy it anymore -- you have to subscribe and pay annually. Fortunately, I've some older pirated versions that work just fine  -- except with some newer PDF fillable forms. Can you find such software on the street anymore?

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, 1tent42 said:

I retired early this year so I have not completed one full year retirement yet.  If my full year of retirement pension will be in April 2024 (it meets the LTR annual pension requirement), would I be eligible to apply for the LTR WP then?  Should I wait until 2025 to apply so the income tax returns would be simpler then? 

 

You might be best to ask BoI that question.

 

In my case (and I think for others) BoI wanted to see an income tax return that proved what we claimed about our pension income.  I ended providing both my Canadian Income tax return (and the Canadian government revenue department letter acknowledging my income) and provided a government document stating my pension income.   I do not know if you will be asked for similar ... 

 

Possibly thou your 2024 income tax return (for year 2023) will have enough information on it to satisfy BoI.  Again, maybe its best to ask them.  You can send an email, or just phone them.  They have many people who can speak very good English.

 

2 hours ago, 1tent42 said:

I'm on an OA visa now and is valid until December 2024.  But I'd like to get the LTR visa next year to receive the tax exemptions if possible.

 

My suspicion, is the best time to reply is when you have government proof of your 2023 tax return submission (submitted in early 2024) - but again, check with BoI.

 

As you likely know, over a 10 year period, if you plan to leave Thailand multiple times/year, the LTR-WP visa is about the same cost as the OA visa (maybe a bit cheaper).   In my case, the LTR-WP visa mean it was easier for me to prove "Health Insurance" (on LTR) than it was on Type-OA - which I believe, if that is also true for you, might be a good reason to apply as soon as applicable.

 

 While getting a tax exemption (that will hopefully come with an LTR visa for money brought it to Thailand) is desirable, even without that, I believe there are good reasons for applying for an LTR when you will have the required paperwork.   ....  Again, I suspect tax records (if asked for) could be the documents that may drive your application schedule.

Edited December 13, 2023 by oldcpu