Worried Parent

[aussiestyle1983]

Astonishing to read the replies above either accepting the fake degree position with a 'mai pen rai, TIT' attitude, or even going so far as to say 'if the classes were ok, then theres nothing wrong.' Unbelievable.

If you dicovered that your financial advisor/Doctor was working with false credentials would the reaction and reasoning be the same?

Children, and my daughter in particular (obviously!) are our future, like the cliche says. As they spend more time in school than with their parents, then we are entrusting the better part of their education to those teachers. We are basically entrusting their future lives to those same teachers to some degree. I know that i will only entrust the education of my daughter to truly qualified and gifted teachers. Indeed, she goes to a cheaper school here in Bangkok because after grilling the teachers, and observing classes from the exterior of the classroom i found the standard of teaching to be much greater than the very beautiful (facility wise) and better equipped school that is 100m from our home.

Bottom line here is that our kids are special, and i want only special (read qualified in educational practices, enthusiastic, honest and caring) people to be around me daughter. Im sure other parents feel the same.

So, for those guys posting above (maybe the fake qualification topic hit a nerve??) i think that might outline the OP's feelings somewhat for you.

For other parents concerned, i suggest you do the same as i and subtly grill your kids teachers. They are freely available whenever you need to meet them, and getting into personal conversation after/while discussing your kids latest homework can reveal much.

Thanks for the support. I, by chance, bumped into one of the young teachers at the school. He was polite and obviously reasonably educated; he mentioned in passing his time at university. I mentioned the fate of his former colleague and he said one of the other teachers was an obvious fraudster; 58 and a retired lorry driver . In the UK only around 5% of his (and my) generation went to university so to claim to have attained a degree and pursued career as a bloody trucker is obsurd! I intend to persue this matter. All the Dads out there will understand where I am coming from.

Rember that if this guy is the criminal you're making him out to be you could be attacked in a form or revenge or even killed! You don't relly know this guy or even the full story (you never will know the full story being a farang yourself) so your plan might backfire. Rather than being a sticky beak, I'd just re-locate your kid to a different school. The school could have told him to get false certificates and you would and will never know this (unless you believe in Santa Calause and think a Thai would tell you.) I for one would rather have my kid educated by one teacher with fake credentials than in a dodgy school where most likely many of the kids teachers would end up being fakes. You are in Thailand, not your home country, so you have to realise the differences and understand that this is a common thing. If every parent did what you are doing there would not be half of the English teachers in Thailand today cause most of the degreed teachers are teaching in other countries, leaving the sexpats, people with Thai family and the few who love Thaialnd to teach in Thailand. Anyway, I hope your plan backfires and please let us know if it does (If you're still alive to do so ).

Edited July 2, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[stevemiddie]

Thanks for the support. I, by chance, bumped into one of the young teachers at the school. He was polite and obviously reasonably educated; he mentioned in passing his time at university. I mentioned the fate of his former colleague and he said one of the other teachers was an obvious fraudster; 58 and a retired lorry driver . In the UK only around 5% of his (and my) generation went to university so to claim to have attained a degree and pursued career as a bloody trucker is obsurd! I intend to persue this matter. All the Dads out there will understand where I am coming from.

What you do is your choice i guess. I would be a little bit hesitant about pursuing something on the say so of one individual. He may have an axe to grind and is just " pressing your buttons"

What makes it so obvious he is a fraudster? I,m inclined to state that i know some long-distance truck drivers made some great money. Horses for courses. You do what you are happiest doing. The fact he drove a truck for a living does not make him a fraudster. IMHO

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm a former janitor's helper, fast food cooker, dishwasher-waiter (at age 49!), etc. I also have a BA, a TEFL cert, and have had professional qualifications in two other fields. You do not know who this guy is, and unless you've seen him teach, and know how to judge his teaching, you don't know what kind of a teacher he is. bruceboy, I'm a father of six, and don't know where you're coming from, unless your mind is filthier than mine is.

[bruceboy]

I'm a former janitor's helper, fast food cooker, dishwasher-waiter (at age 49!), etc. I also have a BA, a TEFL cert, and have had professional qualifications in two other fields. You do not know who this guy is, and unless you've seen him teach, and know how to judge his teaching, you don't know what kind of a teacher he is. bruceboy, I'm a father of six, and don't know where you're coming from, unless your mind is filthier than mine is.

I am not on a crusade against any one individual. I just wish to know if my step daughter is being taught by someone who is commiting fraud against the Royal Thai Government. If a person is lying to the school and their colleagues and commiting fraud they have no place in education.

[aussiestyle1983]

I'm a former janitor's helper, fast food cooker, dishwasher-waiter (at age 49!), etc. I also have a BA, a TEFL cert, and have had professional qualifications in two other fields. You do not know who this guy is, and unless you've seen him teach, and know how to judge his teaching, you don't know what kind of a teacher he is. bruceboy, I'm a father of six, and don't know where you're coming from, unless your mind is filthier than mine is.

I am not on a crusade against any one individual. I just wish to know if my step daughter is being taught by someone who is commiting fraud against the Royal Thai Government. If a person is lying to the school and their colleagues and commiting fraud they have no place in education.

Thats has to be the joke of the day! Well done!

The Royal (corrupt) Thai Governemnt commits fraud against itself. This is thaivisa.com and after reading that, I no longer think you are living in Thailand, or you wouldn't have made such a stupid comment. As Thais would say "This is Thailand" and as Farangs would say "When in Rome." You obviously haven't learn much during your time here, I think you had better go back to school yourself

[aussiestyle1983]

I'm a former janitor's helper, fast food cooker, dishwasher-waiter (at age 49!), etc. I also have a BA, a TEFL cert, and have had professional qualifications in two other fields. You do not know who this guy is, and unless you've seen him teach, and know how to judge his teaching, you don't know what kind of a teacher he is. bruceboy, I'm a father of six, and don't know where you're coming from, unless your mind is filthier than mine is.

I am not on a crusade against any one individual. I just wish to know if my step daughter is being taught by someone who is commiting fraud against the Royal Thai Government. If a person is lying to the school and their colleagues and commiting fraud they have no place in education.

You had better gather a small army together because if that's your goal, you had better check the thai teachers as well!

[PeaceBlondie]

bruceboy, if this man is indeed lying about his credentials, everybody in the teaching field in Thailand - well, maybe 95% of the farang TEFLers, anyway - agree it's a terribly immoral thing to do. However, the THAI government school may have asked him to lie about his qualifications! I worked in a province once with a guy who pretended to have some sort of British paper, but he never presented it. He taught successfully, although not brilliantly.

All governments lie - yours, mine, theirs, every government lies, cheats, steals, kills. Don't worry about it.

[aussiestyle1983]

Good point PB. I was asked to submit a false doccument by my school, I just told them no. I said I dont have a degree and I wouldn't work on false qualifications. They ended up getting me a WP anyway without a degree. I proably should have found a better school, but I realised that I will proably be asked to do the same thing at most schools that would be prepared to accept me anyway. I am glad I worked at that school but if I never tried just because the school asked me to do a bad thing, I most likely would have never ended up working in LOS.

[PeaceBlondie]

aussiestyle, I hope we're not being too harsh on bruceboy here; he is trying to do what he understands is best, as a concerned parent. I'm not condoning any lawbreaking; it's immoral to lie about having credentials you don't have for an important job like teaching.

Sorry for the way we said it, bruceboy. You have legitimate concerns.

[Moonfruit]

Astonishing to read the replies above either accepting the fake degree position with a \'mai pen rai, TIT\' attitude, or even going so far as to say \'if the classes were ok, then theres nothing wrong.\' Unbelievable.

If you dicovered that your financial advisor/Doctor was working with false credentials would the reaction and reasoning be the same?

Children, and my daughter in particular (obviously!) are our future, like the cliche says. As they spend more time in school than with their parents, then we are entrusting the better part of their education to those teachers. We are basically entrusting their future lives to those same teachers to some degree. I know that i will only entrust the education of my daughter to truly qualified and gifted teachers. Indeed, she goes to a cheaper school here in Bangkok because after grilling the teachers, and observing classes from the exterior of the classroom i found the standard of teaching to be much greater than the very beautiful (facility wise) and better equipped school that is 100m from our home.

Bottom line here is that our kids are special, and i want only special (read qualified in educational practices, enthusiastic, honest and caring) people to be around me daughter. Im sure other parents feel the same.

So, for those guys posting above (maybe the fake qualification topic hit a nerve??) i think that might outline the OP\'s feelings somewhat for you.

For other parents concerned, i suggest you do the same as i and subtly grill your kids teachers. They are freely available whenever you need to meet them, and getting into personal conversation after/while discussing your kids latest homework can reveal much.

I dont condone anyone for using a fake degree and if they are caught then they deserve to have the book thrown at them because they are breaking the law. But you are in a dreamworld if you think your daughter is getting a quality education at her Thai school from quality educated Thai teachers, especially the Thai English teachers. You actually have to be working at a school to really appreciate what goes on and much of it is quite laughable, corrupt, uncaring with little enthusiasm unless money is to be made. This IS Thailand and this IS the way it is for most students at school. A caring teacher using a fake to stay in the country is better than a abuser with a real degree. The one teacher i knew using a fake only did so to be legal and I think many teachers were forced down that route and not because they were criminals. To me If you really care you would educate your daughter outside of Thailand but you choose to stay for what ever reasons you do and like so many other parents you are trying to do the best for your daughter in an extemely flawed education system. Take a reality check!

MOST schools being the keywords here. Not ALL Thai schools are the same. Indeed, some Thai schools are superior. This is the same in every country. In my home country, i wouldn't send my kids to school in any of our local schools. They suck. however, those concerned parents dont say, "oh well, this is Bradford so its normal." They look for alternatives, even though that may mean driving a few miles to a better rated school.

Nobody is saying anything about abusers here. Its a simple fact that as a parent, we want our kids to at least get a decent education from qualified individuals in a safe environment. Again, this is not Thailand specific. Its the same the world over. Those who say, 'TIT" have their heads buried in the sand. Degreed teachers are not coming to Thailand to work because of low salary and conditions? Thats fair enough. If there weren't so many clowns around who aren't qualified, willing to take up those underpaid jobs then it wouldn't be happening so much would it? Blaming the Thai government doesn't really cut the mustard either. Otherwise, we might as well all live by the 'when in Rome' theory.

You say if i really cared i would not educate my kids in Thailand. Well, in that respect, you are very correct. That's why my eldest is being educated in Singapore. Actually her choice once she reached Secondary school age. I would have been happy for her to attend one of a few select schools here. My youngest will have that choice too, but only when she is wise enough to make that decision herself. I have a feeling she will choose Thailand as she was born here.

I look for the best for my kids, whatever it is, and i'm afraid your comments don't instill much confidence as to the quality of education provided.

[Moonfruit]

To be perfectly honest, (and i'm really gonna get flamed here i think) some of the replies here have been, as i've said before, astonishing, especially from so called educators.

I don't know how to quote multiple times, so will just bullet point.

1) Somebody said that if you pursue a teacher you may end up dead. Isn't that the same in any country? What a ridiculous comment. You think Larry the lorry driver is connected enough to get Somchai the hit man on board for a farang hit? It seems that you dont have much understanding of Thailand yourself.

2) Aussie 1983. The Royal Thai Government is the body to whom you pay your taxes (hopefully). again, do you really want to live by the mottow 'When in Rome' or do you have your own set of standards and morals that you wish to live by? Your obviously a young guy, judging by your handle, (Im not much older myself!) but i do NOT, ever accept, when it comes to my kids welfare that This is Thailand. I accept it in every other facet of my life. I embrace it as its refreshing still for me after being here for the last 5 years. However, TIT is Thailand doesn'twash for my kids. You also say that this is common. It may be common, but that does not mean that it is the norm, or the required standard.

I do look forward to following this thread as there are good things being posted! And for those who comment that we stay here because we love Thailand, that isn't necessarily true. We stay here because both my wife and i have business interests in Asia (sounds very grand but really isn't!) and we are contracted to base here.

[aussiestyle1983]

To be perfectly honest, (and i'm really gonna get flamed here i think) some of the replies here have been, as i've said before, astonishing, especially from so called educators.

I don't know how to quote multiple times, so will just bullet point.

1) Somebody said that if you pursue a teacher you may end up dead. Isn't that the same in any country? What a ridiculous comment. You think Larry the lorry driver is connected enough to get Somchai the hit man on board for a farang hit? It seems that you dont have much understanding of Thailand yourself.

2) Aussie 1983. The Royal Thai Government is the body to whom you pay your taxes (hopefully). again, do you really want to live by the mottow 'When in Rome' or do you have your own set of standards and morals that you wish to live by? Your obviously a young guy, judging by your handle, (Im not much older myself!) but i do NOT, ever accept, when it comes to my kids welfare that This is Thailand. I accept it in every other facet of my life. I embrace it as its refreshing still for me after being here for the last 5 years. However, TIT is Thailand doesn'twash for my kids. You also say that this is common. It may be common, but that does not mean that it is the norm, or the required standard.

I do look forward to following this thread as there are good things being posted! And for those who comment that we stay here because we love Thailand, that isn't necessarily true. We stay here because both my wife and i have business interests in Asia (sounds very grand but really isn't!) and we are contracted to base here.

To respond to your comments;

1) You missed the point. Of course someone can come after you in ANY country. I never said they couldn't. I just said they were more likely to do it here in Thailand, especially since it's MORE COMMON and CHEAPER to do in Thailand. How many times do we hear of all the tiny problems that have resulted in murders here in LOS, compared to the west or in other countries. If it were the same situation in a western country I wouldn't have even come to that conclusion, because it is highly unlikely, but here in Thailand it is quite easy to conclude that revenge or even a murder could happen as a result of this because it happens more often.

2) You get what you pay for. There's no point in people complaining about their kids being educated by liers (allthough it is wrong, moraly incorrect, and whatever you want to say) that have used fake qualifications to get the job if the parents are cheap charlies (either by force or choice) and put their kids in a crappy school. If you want a better quality education for your kids, put your hand in your back pocket or zip your lips and just accept the fact that your kid is getting the level of education that you could afford to pay for them. Getting rid of one dodgy teacher wont improve the school, especially if the school is now aware the teacher is dodgy and still lets him work there.

If this teacher loses his job, most likely he deserves to. On the other hand, another dodgy school will pick him up and the school that got rid of him will hire another dodgy teacher. It will cause less problems for everyone, yourself included if your just re-loacte you kid and spend a bit more money on it's education.

Edited July 3, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[Moonfruit]

To be perfectly honest, (and i'm really gonna get flamed here i think) some of the replies here have been, as i've said before, astonishing, especially from so called educators.

I don't know how to quote multiple times, so will just bullet point.

1) Somebody said that if you pursue a teacher you may end up dead. Isn't that the same in any country? What a ridiculous comment. You think Larry the lorry driver is connected enough to get Somchai the hit man on board for a farang hit? It seems that you dont have much understanding of Thailand yourself.

2) Aussie 1983. The Royal Thai Government is the body to whom you pay your taxes (hopefully). again, do you really want to live by the mottow 'When in Rome' or do you have your own set of standards and morals that you wish to live by? Your obviously a young guy, judging by your handle, (Im not much older myself!) but i do NOT, ever accept, when it comes to my kids welfare that This is Thailand. I accept it in every other facet of my life. I embrace it as its refreshing still for me after being here for the last 5 years. However, TIT is Thailand doesn'twash for my kids. You also say that this is common. It may be common, but that does not mean that it is the norm, or the required standard.

I do look forward to following this thread as there are good things being posted! And for those who comment that we stay here because we love Thailand, that isn't necessarily true. We stay here because both my wife and i have business interests in Asia (sounds very grand but really isn't!) and we are contracted to base here.

To respond to your comments;

1) You missed the point. Of course someone can come after you in ANY country. I never said they couldn't. I just said they were more likely to do it here in Thailand, especially since it's MORE COMMON and CHEAPER to do in Thailand. How many times do we hear of all the tiny problems that have resulted in murders here in LOS, compared to the west or in other countries. If it were the same situation in a western country I wouldn't have even come to that conclusion, because it is highly unlikely, but here in Thailand it is quite easy to conclude that revenge or even a murder could happen as a result of this because it happens more often.

2) You get what you pay for. There's no point in people complaining about their kids being educated by liers (allthough it is wrong, moraly incorrect, and whatever you want to say) that have used fake qualifications to get the job if the parents are cheap charlies (either by force or choice) and put their kids in a crappy school. If you want a better quality education for your kids, put your hand in your back pocket or zip your lips and just accept the fact that your kid is getting the level of education that you could afford to pay for them.

If this teacher loses his job, most likely he deserves to. On the other hand, another dodgy school will pick him up and the school that got rid of him will hire another dodgy teacher. It will cause less problems for everyone, yourself included if you just re-loacte you kid and spend a bit more money on it's education.

Are you an educator Aussie? The Australian education system is supposedly the best in the world right now. Particularly the state of Victoria.

Cheap Charlie? Good Thai schools actually cost similar to International schools. You obviously didn't read my post very well.

This thread is about a teacher being unqualified, and you are either condoning that as TIT, or dismissing it. Thats plain wrong. May i ask if you are a parent as well as a teacher by the way?

[aussiestyle1983]

To be perfectly honest, (and i'm really gonna get flamed here i think) some of the replies here have been, as i've said before, astonishing, especially from so called educators.

I don't know how to quote multiple times, so will just bullet point.

1) Somebody said that if you pursue a teacher you may end up dead. Isn't that the same in any country? What a ridiculous comment. You think Larry the lorry driver is connected enough to get Somchai the hit man on board for a farang hit? It seems that you dont have much understanding of Thailand yourself.

2) Aussie 1983. The Royal Thai Government is the body to whom you pay your taxes (hopefully). again, do you really want to live by the mottow 'When in Rome' or do you have your own set of standards and morals that you wish to live by? Your obviously a young guy, judging by your handle, (Im not much older myself!) but i do NOT, ever accept, when it comes to my kids welfare that This is Thailand. I accept it in every other facet of my life. I embrace it as its refreshing still for me after being here for the last 5 years. However, TIT is Thailand doesn'twash for my kids. You also say that this is common. It may be common, but that does not mean that it is the norm, or the required standard.

I do look forward to following this thread as there are good things being posted! And for those who comment that we stay here because we love Thailand, that isn't necessarily true. We stay here because both my wife and i have business interests in Asia (sounds very grand but really isn't!) and we are contracted to base here.

To respond to your comments;

1) You missed the point. Of course someone can come after you in ANY country. I never said they couldn't. I just said they were more likely to do it here in Thailand, especially since it's MORE COMMON and CHEAPER to do in Thailand. How many times do we hear of all the tiny problems that have resulted in murders here in LOS, compared to the west or in other countries. If it were the same situation in a western country I wouldn't have even come to that conclusion, because it is highly unlikely, but here in Thailand it is quite easy to conclude that revenge or even a murder could happen as a result of this because it happens more often.

2) You get what you pay for. There's no point in people complaining about their kids being educated by liers (allthough it is wrong, moraly incorrect, and whatever you want to say) that have used fake qualifications to get the job if the parents are cheap charlies (either by force or choice) and put their kids in a crappy school. If you want a better quality education for your kids, put your hand in your back pocket or zip your lips and just accept the fact that your kid is getting the level of education that you could afford to pay for them.

If this teacher loses his job, most likely he deserves to. On the other hand, another dodgy school will pick him up and the school that got rid of him will hire another dodgy teacher. It will cause less problems for everyone, yourself included if you just re-loacte you kid and spend a bit more money on it's education.

Are you an educator Aussie? The Australian education system is supposedly the best in the world right now. Particularly the state of Victoria.

Cheap Charlie? Good Thai schools actually cost similar to International schools. You obviously didn't read my post very well.

This thread is about a teacher being unqualified, and you are either condoning that as TIT, or dismissing it. Thats plain wrong. May i ask if you are a parent as well as a teacher by the way?

I was an English teacher in Thailand, but I quit my job last month after 2 years of teaching at the same school to return home to earn a degree. I would never be a teacher in Australia so you don't have to worry about my arrogant attitude destroying the reputation of the Australian education system, which I believe is not a good as you make out to be.

To answer your other question, no I am not a parent and I never intend to be one. I have realised that the world is not a nice place to raise a family anymore and with terrorism and other trends, I would not like to bring kids into this crappy world. To me, rasing a family is a "novilty of the past."

I understand where you're comming from and allthough I'm not a parent and will hopefully never be one, I do understand you point. However, if I was a parent, I would never educate my child in Thaialnd. I accept the TIT attitude and accept what happens in Thailand, so if I don't like it, I would move on. I don't think it's my right to make problems for others that have done something that many others do, regardless of how morally incorrect it is.

Edited July 3, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[toasted]

When all's said and done, you can't expect your child to get any kind of decent education at a rural school in Thailand. Anyone who cares that much about this will put their child's needs ahead of their own and allow the child the chance to become equipped for life beyond the neighbour's rice fields. That means giving up the relaxed village lifestyle, and accepting that although you may like it, everyone else under the age of 30 wants a way out, and that will, in time, be your child, too. Or would you rather leave them in the same boat, without the luxury of having the choice you did?

Village life is great for children up to a certain age, but however cliched it is, the best thing you can give your child is a good education.

[bruceboy]

aussiestyle, I hope we're not being too harsh on bruceboy here; he is trying to do what he understands is best, as a concerned parent. I'm not condoning any lawbreaking; it's immoral to lie about having credentials you don't have for an important job like teaching.

Sorry for the way we said it, bruceboy. You have legitimate concerns.

Thanks PeaceBlondie. A parent worrying about whether their child's teacher has had even a simple police background check is a legitimate concern. I honestly can't understand the hostility this thread has brought. Why is a parent wanting to know if teachers at their child's school have criminal records or fake degrees in anyway controversial? This is Thailand indeed...

[PeaceBlondie]

bruceboy, it's not that the teachers who are here as farang are afraid of police checks. We are in favor of the Thai educational system having a rational, workable method by which teachers can be screened for criminal records. As you can read on this forum, however, such a system does not exist, and will not exist, because the Thais don't do things like that thoroughly, in most cases. Also, the simple fact that the teacher lied about his academic record doesn't necessarily mean he's a criminal. Vice versa - a graduate such as John Mark Carr might be a criminal or insane.

[Ijustwannateach]

Not controversial, but OP seems either disingenuous, or dangerously naive. From the sound of the opening post, the school is not exactly one of the blueblood international schools of the countryside (there are one or two), and most likely is paying 25-30K (peanuts) for teachers. Probably they don't even have work permits (which means they're working illegally anyway and therefore are "criminals.") If he cares that much about his child's education, why is he putting the child in such a school?

Ultimate responsibility lies with the parents, not the schools.

"Steven"

[bruceboy]

Also, the simple fact that the teacher lied about his academic record doesn't necessarily mean he's a criminal. Vice versa - a graduate such as John Mark Carr might be a criminal or insane.

I know. Thank you again for your advice Peaceblondie. Just because a man doesn't send his children to elite private schools it doesn't mean he doesn't care. Or have the right to worry about his child's welfare. After all a school is the legal guardian of a child while they are in attendance and on the premises.

Edited July 4, 2007 by bruceboy

[PeaceBlondie]

We've argued too much already, so some further posts have been deleted. We know we disagree, and we will keep civil. No insults.

[Lucifer]

The phrase, 'out of the frying pan, into the fire', come to mind. I think you'll find these, ill-qualified 'teachers' are only teaching, for their yearly visa's. Once you've got rid of these fraudsters, you might end up with 'fully qualified' thai teachers, teaching hinglish.

Then you're fuc%ed. Pardon my french.

[PeaceBlondie]

The phrase, 'out of the frying pan, into the fire', come to mind. I think you'll find these, ill-qualified 'teachers' are only teaching, for their yearly visa's. Once you've got rid of these fraudsters, you might end up with 'fully qualified' thai teachers, teaching hinglish.

Then you're fuc%ed. Pardon my french.

That's not French; it's Anglo Saxon.

Ijustwannateach predicted long ago that all these ridiculous requirements for teachers would eliminate some unqualified teachers, drive far more of them further underground but still teaching, and that the requirements would scare away some fairly well qualified, diligent teachers. The net result, sure enough, is that the children suffer or they don't receive instruction in English by native speakers. The Thai education system was messed up before Anna Leonowens arrived in Bangkok in the 1860's, and hasn't progressed enough yet.

Some sincere and diligent native speaking teachers of English have minimal qualifications, enough to be teaching conversational English to Thai children who will never become fluent. They're not all here just for visas or sex or booze. But it appears there is a much bigger shortage of farang English teachers than there was a few years ago.

[ajarnmark]

A teacher at my daughters rural school has been caught with fake qualifications. He has been given two weeks to leave the country. However I am worried that other teachers at the school are working illegally and have not been though any of the checks now demanded by the Thai government. What can a concerned step father do to ensure no more criminal teachers find work at my daughters school? I have met with the Kru Yai to discuss this issue beofre but she seemed not to understand the laws and regulations that apply to foreign teachers.

So, these "criminals" where teaching your daughter, you didn't know and everything was ok!!

Now the same people seem to have no qualifications and suddenly you're worried?

The Thai governments' requirement is a university degree, at least a BA of any kind.........of any kind. A bachelor in German is teaching your kid maybe English!!!!

Main point is: is your step daughter happy and is she learning something? If yes, stop worrying!!

I dont agree with you.

If a person is good in teaching then why does not he get a real degree while keeping his job on fake degree. Its very easy to get a degree and continue your profession as such.

I am 32 and I am still getting more qualifications and degrees. If I can do it then anyone else can do it, coz I am the laziest person on this earth.

[mrtoad]

It is quite possible that this guy may well just be working on a TEFL, and has not broken any laws as of present. I don't have a problem with teachers working without degrees if they are good at teaching.

The problem I have, is when they are submitting false documentation such as degrees to secure a position.

There are lots of good teachers who don't have degree's who are working here, it's just that they don't get the better paid jobs because they have some morals not to submit BS.

I think Brucie may just be on a bit of a personal mission.

[thainong]

A teacher at my daughters rural school has been caught with fake qualifications. He has been given two weeks to leave the country. However I am worried that other teachers at the school are working illegally and have not been though any of the checks now demanded by the Thai government. What can a concerned step father do to ensure no more criminal teachers find work at my daughters school? I have met with the Kru Yai to discuss this issue beofre but she seemed not to understand the laws and regulations that apply to foreign teachers.

Well, i can sense your worries. However, if the Thais could stop looking at the colour of the skin, then your daughter could get qualified teachers from all parts of the world. Of course this has to do with the Ministry of Education of Thailand and Immigration Department which classified only the native speakers can teach in Thailand.

Do Thais really need native speaker in the classroom to sense the "nativeness" ? BBC world service is broadcasting 24 hours as well as the website http://www.bbc.co.uk is online round the clock.

I wish you could talk to more parents and pressurise the government to change the rules to pay the Thai teachers better and more 1st grade teachers are trained besides the pressures for the teachers training universities to change the syllbles as well.

The world is small now and colours of skin do not play a role in the education. White is better than tanned ? M Jackson is the only one that need that feeling.

[bkk_mike]

There's certainly a wide array of offenses of various kinds in various countries. Technically speaking, in certain U.S. states, it's still an imprisonable offense to have consensual oral sex, even with your wife or husband. One would hope that the Thai government will take a common-sense attitude towards the police checks and target them more towards crimes of violence and crimes against children. It seems likely, though, that they will never tell us what the goalposts are and leave themselves free to hedge their bets.

Personally, teachers are probably the easiest group to target, simply because most other countries also require teachers to pass background checks before they're left in charge of children. So if a school is genuinely hiring qualified teachers, they'll already have the documentation. And there's the second point that immigration have the opportunity to check teachers, as they go through the visa and work permit process.

And having the background checks will hopefully get the people who'd fail one to not apply for teaching jobs here.

i.e. There's no way immigration can check all the tourists, and do you think they'll start checking the retirees? Teachers, and maybe later, other people applying for work permits, are a lot easier to check.

As an aside, using US laws is always a bad example.. State laws in particular, like unaccompanied children being able to buy ammunition (with a letter from their parents).

My own personal favourite is that, in the land of the "free?", it's illegal to buy a DVD and copy the film on it onto your Ipod - which virtually every other country in the western world deems, quite obviously, as fair use. (It's no wonder that so many people are imprisoned in the US)

[bruceboy]

Good point PB. I was asked to submit a false doccument by my school, I just told them no. I said I dont have a degree and I wouldn't work on false qualifications. They ended up getting me a WP anyway without a degree. I proably should have found a better school, but I realised that I will proably be asked to do the same thing at most schools that would be prepared to accept me anyway. I am glad I worked at that school but if I never tried just because the school asked me to do a bad thing, I most likely would have never ended up working in LOS.

I applaud assiestyle1983, this is the attitude I would wish for.

I do not understand the hostility in your other posts, anyone with integrity would not resort to lying or faking qualifications.

My point again:

If someone is prepared to committ fraud, then what does this say about their character? What else is he hiding? Thailand attracts all sorts of people and noone knows their background. The Thai government is doing the right thing checking on teachers' qualifications, and I intend to aid this in my capacity as a concerned parent.

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, good luck with that. If you can get most of the other parents at your school on board you might have a chance.

"Steven"

[stevemiddie]

Same as above. You are justified in what you do as a parent.

I agree that aussiestyle is somewhat incorrect in his beliefs................but there again...........i never understood their desire for Fosters lager. Go figure huh?

[page449]

IMHO Bruce is correct in worrying about how his education dollar is spent. I have been teaching English in Thailand and neighbouring countries for close to 10 years and it is a business riddled with corruption. Here are my observations of the A,B,Cs of the biz. First you have 'A' the demand and 'C' the supply who are not going to connect without 'B' the greedy business person who knows nothing about teaching and often nothing about English. Mr. B prefers the unqualified populist teacher because the students do too. He goes out of his way to keep the students happy. I had one Mr. B tell me that I must observe Tom because he is a good teacher and the students are lined up to register in his class. Tom did everything that I was told not to do in my two TEFL courses. When trained teachers make lesson plans they are focusing on what the student will learn and not only if the student will enjoy this and will they like me. Although learning a language is an inexact science there exist empirical methodologies that one can only learn by attending a TEFL course. Tom informed me before the class that using contractions in his class was strictly forbidden because he 'felt' that the students should use full words. He started the 50 minute lesson by asking each student what they did that day. They spoke for 30 seconds and his comments were 3 minutes. He felt that the air should constantly be filled with English because they are learning to listen. Finally, he had a reading exercise where each student stood and read a paragraph aloud and Tom corrected their pronunciation. The students had no idea what they were reading. Tom was a hard working man and the students loved him.

Edited July 17, 2007 by page449