Worried Parent

[aussiestyle1983]

It's good to see this thread still up and running.

I might have integrity and be honest and would never do something such as use fake doccuments to get a job or whatever, first of all I would not be happy with myself for doing it and second of all I like to wrok and earn my way into the positions I get, even if it means going home and studying which is what im doing now. However, my hostile posts come from my realistic attitude and although I would not do such a thing, I understand that this is reality in Thailand and these thing happen all the time and will continue to do so. This is backed up by my knowledge of common Thai practises such as lying, corruption, cheatng, etc. and we all know that even the police here are corrupt so with an issue such a one guy (possible a good teacher with a family to support) submitting a fake doccument to get a job, I don't really blame him, especially realising that he may of actually been enchouraged to do so by his Thai employer.

So although I would not do such a thing, I can't blame the guy and if I was in your shoes i would have forgot about it and let him continue teaching if he was a good teacher and had a backgroung check etc.

[Athena]

Report any school that hires fake degree teachers; those who argue against this approach are only looking for a prolonged stay in the Kingdom at the expense of you, your child, and those of us who worked for our four year degrees. Remember, the MoE is setting standards for many reasons and those standards are similar to the standards of East Asia's leaders: Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and China.

[FranklyNoMore]

IMHO Bruce is correct in worrying about how his education dollar is spent. I have been teaching English in Thailand and neighbouring countries for close to 10 years and it is a business riddled with corruption. Here are my observations of the A,B,Cs of the biz. First you have \\\'A\\\' the demand and \\\'C\\\' the supply who are not going to connect without \\\'B\\\' the greedy business person who knows nothing about teaching and often nothing about English. Mr. B prefers the unqualified populist teacher because the students do too. He goes out of his way to keep the students happy. I had one Mr. B tell me that I must observe Tom because he is a good teacher and the students are lined up to register in his class. Tom did everything that I was told not to do in my two TEFL courses. When trained teachers make lesson plans they are focusing on what the student will learn and not only if the student will enjoy this and will they like me. Although learning a language is an inexact science there exist empirical methodologies that one can only learn by attending a TEFL course. Tom informed me before the class that using contractions in his class was strictly forbidden because he \\\'felt\\\' that the students should use full words. He started the 50 minute lesson by asking each student what they did that day. They spoke for 30 seconds and his comments were 3 minutes. He felt that the air should constantly be filled with English because they are learning to listen. Finally, he had a reading exercise where each student stood and read a paragraph aloud and Tom corrected their pronunciation. The students had no idea what they were reading. Tom was a hard working man and the students loved him.

Most students dont care about studying and are forced to learn English. Most cheat their way through school and university. Most are as thick as sh*te with little or no motivation to try and improve themselves. Its who you know rather than what you know that gets a job here and they know it. Education is rotten to the core in this country and having a go at Tom is pointless. Tom isnt the problem. Tom is a bandaid doing his best. Not the best teacher but certainly not the worst. The Thai cultural system / way of life simply doesnt allow for any productive learning to the masses. Therefore most ideas learned on courses simply dont apply to Thai students. Most would switch off and would probably learn as much with Tom as they would with you and your theories but at least they would have had fun with Tom. Fun is big here, studying isnt. Cutting out the tumor isn\'t going to happen anytime soon. So id suggest you do your best and let Tom do his.

Foreign Parents educating their kids in a Thai school are doing so because they are selfish and want to live here and not because they care about their kids education. If you really cared about them you would go back home and give your kids a proper education, unless of course you can teach them yourself.

Yes, Thai education really is that bad.

Edited July 20, 2007 by FranklyNoMore

[page449]

IMHO Bruce is correct in worrying about how his education dollar is spent. I have been teaching English in Thailand and neighbouring countries for close to 10 years and it is a business riddled with corruption. Here are my observations of the A,B,Cs of the biz. First you have \\\'A\\\' the demand and \\\'C\\\' the supply who are not going to connect without \\\'B\\\' the greedy business person who knows nothing about teaching and often nothing about English. Mr. B prefers the unqualified populist teacher because the students do too. He goes out of his way to keep the students happy. I had one Mr. B tell me that I must observe Tom because he is a good teacher and the students are lined up to register in his class. Tom did everything that I was told not to do in my two TEFL courses. When trained teachers make lesson plans they are focusing on what the student will learn and not only if the student will enjoy this and will they like me. Although learning a language is an inexact science there exist empirical methodologies that one can only learn by attending a TEFL course. Tom informed me before the class that using contractions in his class was strictly forbidden because he \\\'felt\\\' that the students should use full words. He started the 50 minute lesson by asking each student what they did that day. They spoke for 30 seconds and his comments were 3 minutes. He felt that the air should constantly be filled with English because they are learning to listen. Finally, he had a reading exercise where each student stood and read a paragraph aloud and Tom corrected their pronunciation. The students had no idea what they were reading. Tom was a hard working man and the students loved him.

Most students dont care about studying and are forced to learn English. Most cheat their way through school and university. Most are as thick as sh*te with little or no motivation to try and improve themselves. Its who you know rather than what you know that gets a job here and they know it. Education is rotten to the core in this country and having a go at Tom is pointless. Tom isnt the problem. Tom is a bandaid doing his best. Not the best teacher but certainly not the worst. The Thai cultural system / way of life simply doesnt allow for any productive learning to the masses. Therefore most ideas learned on courses simply dont apply to Thai students. Most would switch off and would probably learn as much with Tom as they would with you and your theories but at least they would have had fun with Tom. Fun is big here, studying isnt. Cutting out the tumor isn\'t going to happen anytime soon. So id suggest you do your best and let Tom do his.

Foreign Parents educating their kids in a Thai school are doing so because they are selfish and want to live here and not because they care about their kids education. If you really cared about them you would go back home and give your kids a proper education, unless of course you can teach them yourself.

Yes, Thai education really is that bad.

Thanks for the advice.

[PeaceBlondie]

I agree with FranklyNoMore's first half of his last post, regarding "most" students that farang teachers of English teach in conversation classes. In the best school programs that really emphasize English, many students are far better.

It is too harsh, however, to generalize about all farang parents of kids who are in poor govt. schools. Maybe the farang is too poor to afford a private school. Maybe he's stuck out in a rural setting with a Thai wife who doesn't want to move to the city. A friend of mine is stuck like that now, off beyond nowhere, troubled about finding a decent school for his bright little girl after he just earned his second master's degree from the USA. I know farang teachers in Thailand who plan to leave the country as soon as their kid(s) reach prathom age, or at least matayom age.

[FranklyNoMore]

I know its easy to generalise on here and I agree that some students really try and are motivated to learn. Out of 500 or so that I teach, I think I have around 20 who really try week in week out. And of course some farang parents have little choice but to educate their kids here.

[bruceboy]

Foreign Parents educating their kids in a Thai school are doing so because they are selfish and want to live here and not because they care about their kids education. If you really cared about them you would go back home and give your kids a proper education

That is a terrible attitude to have. I pity your students.

[seykota]

FranklyNoMore, I am wondering why you continue to teach here, as you are clearly unhappy with your work situation?

[FranklyNoMore]

FranklyNoMore, I am wondering why you continue to teach here, as you are clearly unhappy with your work situation?

I was talking about most Thai students attitudes and the Thai education system.

Dont confuse the students attitude to mine. Its very easy to draw the wrong conclusion on thaivisa and most on here are good at that.

I get my rewards, I have a great job and probably earn more than most teachers apart from those in international schools. Two weeks ago some my students won a provincial speaking competition. These are the kind of small rewards that do make it worth while. Ive been teaching at the same school for four years and many old students come back to say thank you to me for helping them. Actually, I would say I care too much which is why the system really gets me sometimes and have gone out of my way on many occasions to help the students when they have a problem with the school or their study. But am I going to say the system here is great? No and would I educate my kid here? No way. Brucie, im afraid you either have no idea about the Thai education system or you are deluding yourself. Pity your kid. But good luck anyway. im sure you are doing your best and your kid is learning to copy and cheat as you read this.

[aussiestyle1983]

FranklyNoMore, I am wondering why you continue to teach here, as you are clearly unhappy with your work situation?

im sure you are doing your best and your kid is learning to copy and cheat as you read this.

ROFPMSL

Bloody excellent!

[stepenwolf1958]

Yes.the most you said is true,unfortunately.Even you was sharp here,that's the way it is...Here are a lot of proves but there is a hope...To find a balance in teaching and having fun,to make yourself as a friendly person to them,so they would be interested for YOUR subject.I'm doing that way and it WORKS...As with your own kids-all the time you have to show them carrot and stick in other hand...MOST IMPORTANT THING IS.smile always to them and even out of classes make jokes,some silly things for them so they will not escape from your classes...I hope all of us here are in some kind of mission-to give to those kids a chance in life.As well we know what is ALTERNATIVE to education here,yong men or women-whoever they are temptations of any crime will be all over them in nearly future - if they have alternative(by good education)they will stay out of any dark things in the future of their own...It's wrong to put above all,some piece of paper,if you know to WORK WITH THE KIDS,if you are deducated to your work...It's more simple then we think it is...So,i will not understand people as Bruceboy here,sorry...

IMHO Bruce is correct in worrying about how his education dollar is spent. I have been teaching English in Thailand and neighbouring countries for close to 10 years and it is a business riddled with corruption. Here are my observations of the A,B,Cs of the biz. First you have \\\'A\\\' the demand and \\\'C\\\' the supply who are not going to connect without \\\'B\\\' the greedy business person who knows nothing about teaching and often nothing about English. Mr. B prefers the unqualified populist teacher because the students do too. He goes out of his way to keep the students happy. I had one Mr. B tell me that I must observe Tom because he is a good teacher and the students are lined up to register in his class. Tom did everything that I was told not to do in my two TEFL courses. When trained teachers make lesson plans they are focusing on what the student will learn and not only if the student will enjoy this and will they like me. Although learning a language is an inexact science there exist empirical methodologies that one can only learn by attending a TEFL course. Tom informed me before the class that using contractions in his class was strictly forbidden because he \\\'felt\\\' that the students should use full words. He started the 50 minute lesson by asking each student what they did that day. They spoke for 30 seconds and his comments were 3 minutes. He felt that the air should constantly be filled with English because they are learning to listen. Finally, he had a reading exercise where each student stood and read a paragraph aloud and Tom corrected their pronunciation. The students had no idea what they were reading. Tom was a hard working man and the students loved him.

Most students dont care about studying and are forced to learn English. Most cheat their way through school and university. Most are as thick as sh*te with little or no motivation to try and improve themselves. Its who you know rather than what you know that gets a job here and they know it. Education is rotten to the core in this country and having a go at Tom is pointless. Tom isnt the problem. Tom is a bandaid doing his best. Not the best teacher but certainly not the worst. The Thai cultural system / way of life simply doesnt allow for any productive learning to the masses. Therefore most ideas learned on courses simply dont apply to Thai students. Most would switch off and would probably learn as much with Tom as they would with you and your theories but at least they would have had fun with Tom. Fun is big here, studying isnt. Cutting out the tumor isn\'t going to happen anytime soon. So id suggest you do your best and let Tom do his.

Foreign Parents educating their kids in a Thai school are doing so because they are selfish and want to live here and not because they care about their kids education. If you really cared about them you would go back home and give your kids a proper education, unless of course you can teach them yourself.

Yes, Thai education really is that bad.

[kayo]

I heard this is the place to sign up for "cleansing the ROyal Thai gov't and nation of all corruption, fraud and liars cheats etc...

Do I take a number or...

Oh! Never mind!

[page449]

Yes.the most you said is true,unfortunately.Even you was sharp here,that's the way it is...Here are a lot of proves but there is a hope...To find a balance in teaching and having fun,to make yourself as a friendly person to them,so they would be interested for YOUR subject.I'm doing that way and it WORKS...As with your own kids-all the time you have to show them carrot and stick in other hand...MOST IMPORTANT THING IS.smile always to them and even out of classes make jokes,some silly things for them so they will not escape from your classes...I hope all of us here are in some kind of mission-to give to those kids a chance in life.As well we know what is ALTERNATIVE to education here,yong men or women-whoever they are temptations of any crime will be all over them in nearly future - if they have alternative(by good education)they will stay out of any dark things in the future of their own...It's wrong to put above all,some piece of paper,if you know to WORK WITH THE KIDS,if you are deducated to your work...It's more simple then we think it is...So,i will not understand people as Bruceboy here,sorry...

IMHO Bruce is correct in worrying about how his education dollar is spent. I have been teaching English in Thailand and neighbouring countries for close to 10 years and it is a business riddled with corruption. Here are my observations of the A,B,Cs of the biz. First you have \\\'A\\\' the demand and \\\'C\\\' the supply who are not going to connect without \\\'B\\\' the greedy business person who knows nothing about teaching and often nothing about English. Mr. B prefers the unqualified populist teacher because the students do too. He goes out of his way to keep the students happy. I had one Mr. B tell me that I must observe Tom because he is a good teacher and the students are lined up to register in his class. Tom did everything that I was told not to do in my two TEFL courses. When trained teachers make lesson plans they are focusing on what the student will learn and not only if the student will enjoy this and will they like me. Although learning a language is an inexact science there exist empirical methodologies that one can only learn by attending a TEFL course. Tom informed me before the class that using contractions in his class was strictly forbidden because he \\\'felt\\\' that the students should use full words. He started the 50 minute lesson by asking each student what they did that day. They spoke for 30 seconds and his comments were 3 minutes. He felt that the air should constantly be filled with English because they are learning to listen. Finally, he had a reading exercise where each student stood and read a paragraph aloud and Tom corrected their pronunciation. The students had no idea what they were reading. Tom was a hard working man and the students loved him.

Most students dont care about studying and are forced to learn English. Most cheat their way through school and university. Most are as thick as sh*te with little or no motivation to try and improve themselves. Its who you know rather than what you know that gets a job here and they know it. Education is rotten to the core in this country and having a go at Tom is pointless. Tom isnt the problem. Tom is a bandaid doing his best. Not the best teacher but certainly not the worst. The Thai cultural system / way of life simply doesnt allow for any productive learning to the masses. Therefore most ideas learned on courses simply dont apply to Thai students. Most would switch off and would probably learn as much with Tom as they would with you and your theories but at least they would have had fun with Tom. Fun is big here, studying isnt. Cutting out the tumor isn\'t going to happen anytime soon. So id suggest you do your best and let Tom do his.

Foreign Parents educating their kids in a Thai school are doing so because they are selfish and want to live here and not because they care about their kids education. If you really cared about them you would go back home and give your kids a proper education, unless of course you can teach them yourself.

Yes, Thai education really is that bad.

Thanks for the advice. I've learned a lot lately.

Edited July 27, 2007 by page449

[martynsnowman]

Yes.the most you said is true,unfortunately.Even you was sharp here,that's the way it is...Here are a lot of proves but there is a hope...To find a balance in teaching and having fun,to make yourself as a friendly person to them,so they would be interested for YOUR subject.I'm doing that way and it WORKS...As with your own kids-all the time you have to show them carrot and stick in other hand...MOST IMPORTANT THING IS.smile always to them and even out of classes make jokes,some silly things for them so they will not escape from your classes...I hope all of us here are in some kind of mission-to give to those kids a chance in life.As well we know what is ALTERNATIVE to education here,yong men or women-whoever they are temptations of any crime will be all over them in nearly future - if they have alternative(by good education)they will stay out of any dark things in the future of their own...It's wrong to put above all,some piece of paper,if you know to WORK WITH THE KIDS,if you are deducated to your work...It's more simple then we think it is...So,i will not understand people as Bruceboy here,sorry...

IMHO Bruce is correct in worrying about how his education dollar is spent. I have been teaching English in Thailand and neighbouring countries for close to 10 years and it is a business riddled with corruption. Here are my observations of the A,B,Cs of the biz. First you have \\\'A\\\' the demand and \\\'C\\\' the supply who are not going to connect without \\\'B\\\' the greedy business person who knows nothing about teaching and often nothing about English. Mr. B prefers the unqualified populist teacher because the students do too. He goes out of his way to keep the students happy. I had one Mr. B tell me that I must observe Tom because he is a good teacher and the students are lined up to register in his class. Tom did everything that I was told not to do in my two TEFL courses. When trained teachers make lesson plans they are focusing on what the student will learn and not only if the student will enjoy this and will they like me. Although learning a language is an inexact science there exist empirical methodologies that one can only learn by attending a TEFL course. Tom informed me before the class that using contractions in his class was strictly forbidden because he \\\'felt\\\' that the students should use full words. He started the 50 minute lesson by asking each student what they did that day. They spoke for 30 seconds and his comments were 3 minutes. He felt that the air should constantly be filled with English because they are learning to listen. Finally, he had a reading exercise where each student stood and read a paragraph aloud and Tom corrected their pronunciation. The students had no idea what they were reading. Tom was a hard working man and the students loved him.

Most students dont care about studying and are forced to learn English. Most cheat their way through school and university. Most are as thick as sh*te with little or no motivation to try and improve themselves. Its who you know rather than what you know that gets a job here and they know it. Education is rotten to the core in this country and having a go at Tom is pointless. Tom isnt the problem. Tom is a bandaid doing his best. Not the best teacher but certainly not the worst. The Thai cultural system / way of life simply doesnt allow for any productive learning to the masses. Therefore most ideas learned on courses simply dont apply to Thai students. Most would switch off and would probably learn as much with Tom as they would with you and your theories but at least they would have had fun with Tom. Fun is big here, studying isnt. Cutting out the tumor isn\'t going to happen anytime soon. So id suggest you do your best and let Tom do his.

Foreign Parents educating their kids in a Thai school are doing so because they are selfish and want to live here and not because they care about their kids education. If you really cared about them you would go back home and give your kids a proper education, unless of course you can teach them yourself.

Yes, Thai education really is that bad.

Thanks for the advice. I've learned a lot lately.

hi , i might be going a little off track here but ...... i know some one working here in issan from my old town in england he worked in a factory as a manual worker , he said how easy it was to buy a fake degree from usa to teach in l.o. s . and sure enough he,s been working here about 3 years now . my problem is my family will be moving to the same city and youngest daughter will go to the school he works at ....... do i say somthing to wife or school ? or keep my nose out ?

[Canada]

I have only been at this now a couple of weeks. I am in a remote area teaching at a school of 1100 students. I am unqualified technically. I have been honest with the school from the start of negotiating the deal. They love me, so do most of the students so far. The kids have six Thai english teachers teaching six levels of students. The levels are then split 5 times according to ability and level of interest. I am an "extra" teacher. They see me once a week, which is severely inadequate. I teach only vocabulary and pronunciation. I really feel sorry for these kids. I can only converse with two of the other teachers. Guess how many students I can converse with? Yes, you're right. None. These are supposedly qualified teachers.

I do my best to get and keep them interested and teach what I can in the little time that I have with them. Being able to speak and understand english might make a difference in what some of these kids end up doing.

So, I don't have cred's or a work permit. Yes I am illegal...shame on me. Anyone want to teach where I am teaching?

They teachers have now asked me to teach them how to speak.....

This last post or reply about the teacher in Isan...have you read the last 5 pages??? Go to his class. How is he with the kids? How are they with him? Can he speak english? Or is his accent so thick that the majority of english speakers couldn't inderstand him? ( I met a Scot here that was teaching, legally, that I couldn't understand). Like....c'mon man....what do you want?....a fully qualified teacher, or one that can teach what you want your children to learn? Think carefully about this one. If you know this guy, what do you know about him? Is he dangerous? To anyone? I recommend that before you make your judgement of him, sit on on some Thai teachers' classes as well. If you can't afford to buy a good education here, think carefully about how you proceed here. Good luck.

[solo siam]

I actually think any Native English speaking tuition is better than none, my wife retook her high school equivelant here recently and showed me her English Language test she had only got 75% or so on (Thai Teacher).

My wifes answers were 100% correct, the teacher had got 1/4 of the answers wrong and marked the exam incorrectly, it wasn't even the hardest questions she had marked up incorrectly.

However, I think that if foreign teachers are employed, they should have the right qualifications.

The biggest point I want to make though, regarding childrens education is that far too many people rely on the school for this 100%. As much education should take place at home IMO as at school, especially in the earlier years. Bringing up a child that enjoys learning, has fun reading a book etc... is as important as school selection or teacher quality.

[jasreeve17]

Canada,

I work at a couple of the top Unis. I've noticed that the best students often come from little country schools and were motivated at a young age by a teacher that made language fun.

Such teachers helped them to get an academic direction that has led to great job choices, so keep up the good work.

Don't be too hard on the Thai teachers. Most of them try their best and do want to help the kids, but went through a poor education system themselves.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, jasreeve, for reminding us not to be too hard on the Thai teachers. I spent my evening tonight with lots of English teachers: one well educated and experienced Thai ajarn, a less educated Thai ajarn, an American and an English professional, and two more of us struggling TEFLers . All of us have spent years in Thailand doing the best we could with what we've learned, under impossible circumstances. We told our war stories and noted the progress our students have made. Mixed results, but some limited progress.

Thailand will never (in the next decade or two) be fully staffed with Thai or farang teachers of English who are extremely well educated, dedicated, effective, etc. Get the best school you can afford, but don't assume that money buys excellence. As Ben@3 indicated, parents should not expect miracles from schools. Teach your child.