“Way to a million” Soi Dog hits 750,000 sterilisations in Thailand

[billsmart]

1 minute ago, proton said:

Plants are not 'beings' in no way are the comparable to other mammals. If you see no problem with eating mammals then why not dogs? there is no difference between a pig and a dog, apart from a pig being more intelligent and less likely to kill the baby when you are out of the room. 

Plants are beings. In fact, they are "sentient beings." They are not mammals or birds or lizards or fish or oysters, but they are living beings.

I stated in a previous post, I have no problem with anyone killing and eating other beings, including dogs.

[proton]

2 minutes ago, billsmart said:

IMO, humans are much nastier and slier than any dog.

And the article you posted was about a dog attack in the USA by the owner's dog, not a soi dog in Thailand.

How about this image for a sample of human's killing innocent animals? 

Much nastier, especially the hypocrites who get all soppy about slobbering crafty dogs, while eating other animals far more worthy.

[billsmart]

10 minutes ago, proton said:

Much nastier, especially the hypocrites who get all soppy about slobbering crafty dogs, while eating other animals far more worthy.

"Much nastier." At least we agree on one thing, But, it is your belief that some animals are "more worthy" than others that is the crux of our disagreements. 

[proton]

1 minute ago, billsmart said:

"Much nastier." At least we agree on one thing, But, it is your belief that some animals are "more worthy" than others that is the crux of our disagreements. 

No they are all as worthy as each other, it's the meat eaters who think dogs are more worthy, even soi dogs than the ones they scoff down, which is odd.

[billsmart]

37 minutes ago, proton said:

No they are all as worthy as each other, it's the meat eaters who think dogs are more worthy, even soi dogs than the ones they scoff down, which is odd.

Well, then, we agree again, I think. IMO, dogs are not more "worthy" than other animals. Killing and eating a dog is no better or worse than killing and eating a pig, turkey, fish, or carrot, or even another human. We may not agree with that last point, but I understand that. It's always a tendency of a species to value beings of the same species more than others.

 

And with that, I'll say good night. I hope you have a good sleep and are not bothered (or mauled) by howling soi dogs.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, proton said:

They can still spread disease, they are only vaccinated for rabies. They are still a noise and poo pest as well as a traffic hazard and danger from attacks. The best way to get rid of soi dogs is culling, not skirting around the problem and pretending sterilisation on a minor scale is a solution.

Culling NEVER works

[kwilco]

How culling doesn't work

Dogs in Thailand-2.ppsx

[kwilco]

2 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Killing and eating a dog is no better or worse than killing and eating a pig, turkey, fish, or carrot, or even another human.

I think you are missing. point here. The practice of eating dogs is not based on the need for food in most countries....it is believed to enhance health.

However the dogs unlike most domesticated food animals are not bred, kept or killed humanely or even hygienically. Over the centuries she dogs have beebread for food but eating of Soi Dogs is not part of that practice.

[proton]

25 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Culling NEVER works

Dead dogs don't breed or populate roads and doorways, plus all the other things these dirty mutts get up to.

Edited August 10, 2022 by proton

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, billsmart said:

I have never heard of anyone getting their "face chewed off" by soi dogs in Thailand. I have heard of people getting their "face chewed off" by dogs, but they were either already dead when that happened or an attack by their own or their neighbor's (or neighbour's ????) dogs. I have heard stories about soi dogs attacking kids or acting aggressive towards people walking down the soi, but, of course, we never hear the full story and if there was any provocation or history of provocations by the humans involved. My point here is if some humans go out into the soi and chase and beat or kill dogs, that would, IMO, increase the likelihood of these kind of interactions.

I was kind of with you in the beginning of this thread but you have lost me now.  I think you don't spend much time in Thailand.  I am a dog owner / dog lover, but you can't deny that soi dogs - when they get in to the pack mentality - can be extremely aggressive, especially at night.  Unprovoked attacks as they guard their territory.  How you don't know this I am not sure (other than suspecting you have little experience here).

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, proton said:

Dead dogs don't breed or populate roads and doorways, plus all the other things these dirty mutts get up to.

Did you not read the part where it says they are replaced?

in fact killing dogs causes them to be replaced with dogs from outside th area - these dogs benefit from the new, (almost) empty environment and are often stronger, but they bring with them zoonotic diseases notable rabies. 

So killing the dogs does not affect the population except for a very short period but increase the spread of diseases.

Edited August 10, 2022 by kwilco

[kwilco]

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”

— Mahatma Gandhi

 

Some facts and figures about roaming dogs in Thailand

 

CNVR -             Capture, Neuter, Vaccinate, Release

 

Places where Soi Dog is working – Phuket, Phang Nga, Samui  and Bangkok – owners can have their pets vaccinated and sterilized. Free. The schedules for Soi Dog mobile clinics are constantly updated on their Facebook Page  (https://www.facebook.com/SoiDogInThai/)

 

SDF is currently running (Covid permitting) a campaign to do this is BKK

 

SDF have been quite successful in Phuket already - In Phuket over 15 years the population has dropped from 80,000 to about 6000. The problem is that many people are not aware of this either due to the gradual change or the fact they weren’t there 15 years ago.

Phuket is the only province in Thailand that is, according to the government, rabies-free. But there is no guarantee it will stay that way.

A very important factor in SDF’s success is that Phuket is an island and it should relatively easy to control animals coming onto the island. The main threat is “pats” brought from the mainland for sale in the markets

 

Just pre-Covid, SDF CNVR’d 4000 dogs on Samui, KPG and Kog Tao

 

In BKK they have a 7 to 10 year, Bt550-million project to control the ENTIRE dog population. It  will see an increasing number of mobile surgical teams recruited to target the estimated 640,000 stray dogs that roam the streets in Bangkok. 

 

Dogs are not wild animals they are bred by humans and our ecology is linked together,  in order to deal with them, we not only have to deal with the dogs but also our own behavoiur.

 

Sterilized and spayed dogs also tend to be less aggressive. …and they don’t come into season.

If about 80% are sterilized and 70% are vaccinated that is usually sufficient to do the job.

 

It took the USA nearly a century and a half to get it’s dog population under control – it is only in the past 10 years that demand has outstripped supply.

 

The last cull in BKK killed 200 dogs per day - at that rate it would take nearly 10 years to kill the current population - but as bitches can have up to 3 litters per year - you can see that the rate of replacement would just about nullify any extermination. 

Replacing the population – Dogs can breed after 6 months – one single bitch can produce 6 to 12 pups in a litter 3 times a year. After six months those pups will be producing litters of their own. A bitch will live from 3 to 5 years. After 5 years at a rate of 7 bitches per annum it could have up to 17,000 descendants all happily reproducing on top of that

 

I don’t think people consider the logistics of a cull either – what do you do with ¾ of a million carcasses, what to do with the ones that escape.

How do you kill them – you can’t use poison because of the danger to other species, the environment and humans – so you have to shoot them. How do you deal with teams of armed hunters running around BKK.

How do you dispose of the bodies? In themselves a massive health hazard.

 

 

Your house pet is no different from the stray dogs it still needs vaccinations and jabs against rabies and doggies’ diseases and should be neutered - no matter how hard you try over the period of its life it will interact with both stray and “owned” dogs on the island and precautions need to be taken.

 

[proton]

11 minutes ago, kwilco said:

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”

— Mahatma Gandhi

 

Some facts and figures about roaming dogs in Thailand

 

CNVR -             Capture, Neuter, Vaccinate, Release

 

Places where Soi Dog is working – Phuket, Phang Nga, Samui  and Bangkok – owners can have their pets vaccinated and sterilized. Free. The schedules for Soi Dog mobile clinics are constantly updated on their Facebook Page  (https://www.facebook.com/SoiDogInThai/)

 

SDF is currently running (Covid permitting) a campaign to do this is BKK

 

SDF have been quite successful in Phuket already - In Phuket over 15 years the population has dropped from 80,000 to about 6000. The problem is that many people are not aware of this either due to the gradual change or the fact they weren’t there 15 years ago.

Phuket is the only province in Thailand that is, according to the government, rabies-free. But there is no guarantee it will stay that way.

A very important factor in SDF’s success is that Phuket is an island and it should relatively easy to control animals coming onto the island. The main threat is “pats” brought from the mainland for sale in the markets

 

Just pre-Covid, SDF CNVR’d 4000 dogs on Samui, KPG and Kog Tao

 

In BKK they have a 7 to 10 year, Bt550-million project to control the ENTIRE dog population. It  will see an increasing number of mobile surgical teams recruited to target the estimated 640,000 stray dogs that roam the streets in Bangkok. 

 

Dogs are not wild animals they are bred by humans and our ecology is linked together,  in order to deal with them, we not only have to deal with the dogs but also our own behavoiur.

 

Sterilized and spayed dogs also tend to be less aggressive. …and they don’t come into season.

If about 80% are sterilized and 70% are vaccinated that is usually sufficient to do the job.

 

It took the USA nearly a century and a half to get it’s dog population under control – it is only in the past 10 years that demand has outstripped supply.

 

The last cull in BKK killed 200 dogs per day - at that rate it would take nearly 10 years to kill the current population - but as bitches can have up to 3 litters per year - you can see that the rate of replacement would just about nullify any extermination. 

Replacing the population – Dogs can breed after 6 months – one single bitch can produce 6 to 12 pups in a litter 3 times a year. After six months those pups will be producing litters of their own. A bitch will live from 3 to 5 years. After 5 years at a rate of 7 bitches per annum it could have up to 17,000 descendants all happily reproducing on top of that

 

I don’t think people consider the logistics of a cull either – what do you do with ¾ of a million carcasses, what to do with the ones that escape.

How do you kill them – you can’t use poison because of the danger to other species, the environment and humans – so you have to shoot them. How do you deal with teams of armed hunters running around BKK.

How do you dispose of the bodies? In themselves a massive health hazard.

 

 

Your house pet is no different from the stray dogs it still needs vaccinations and jabs against rabies and doggies’ diseases and should be neutered - no matter how hard you try over the period of its life it will interact with both stray and “owned” dogs on the island and precautions need to be taken.

 

How do you kill them? get the army to shoot them and burn the bodies, also offer a bounty of 50 baht a dead dog handed in as an incentive for the locals, morals go out of the window when money is on the table. Time to stop the sentimental nonsense and to get tough. The soi dog foundation has never been the answer. They always cite Phuket where they started as a success, they have not been a success on the mainland and will not even talk about the soi dog population and how it has grown. Gandhi is the last person to go to for advise on morals, he believed in eating meat so was another hypocrite on animal welfare

Edited August 10, 2022 by proton

[proton]

10 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Did you not read the part where it says they are replaced?

in fact killing dogs causes them to be replaced with dogs from outside th area - these dogs benefit from the new, (almost) empty environment and are often stronger, but they bring with them zoonotic diseases notable rabies. 

So killing the dogs does not affect the population except for a very short period but increase the spread of diseases.

Another myth from the dog propaganda department, how can they be replaced if most are dead?

[kwilco]

10 minutes ago, proton said:

How do you kill them? get the army to shoot them and burn the bodies, also offer a bounty of 50 baht a dead dog handed in as an incentive for the locals, morals go out of the window when money is on the table. Time to stop the sentimental nonsense and to get tough. The soi dog foundation has never been the answer. They always cite Phuket where they started as a success, they have not been a success on the mainland and will not even talk about the soi dog population and how it has grown. Gandhi is the last person to go to for advise on morals, he believed in eating meat so was another hypocrite on animal welfare

You don't seem to be able to read mark, lean and inwardly digest.

The last cull in BK ended in failure for precisely the reasons you have mooted.

I know it's difficult to come to terms with the evidence when it makes you look foolish - it's called cognitive dissonance, but your replies are just making it  look as if you are incapable of understanding anything.

[kwilco]

Just now, kwilco said:

You don't seem to be able to read mark, lean and inwardly digest.

The last cull in BK ended in failure for precisely the reasons you have mooted.

I know it's difficult to come to terms with the evidence when it makes you look foolish - it's called cognitive dissonance, but your replies are just making it  look as if you are incapable of understanding anything.

Where will you burn 780,000 dog carcasses over 10 years. How will you manage the army in the streets of BKK firing live ammo and howe do you deal with the dogs that escape.

Then how will you prevent other dogs from taking the place of the ones you've shot?

[proton]

38 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You don't seem to be able to read mark, lean and inwardly digest.

The last cull in BK ended in failure for precisely the reasons you have mooted.

I know it's difficult to come to terms with the evidence when it makes you look foolish - it's called cognitive dissonance, but your replies are just making it  look as if you are incapable of understanding anything.

when was the last cull in Bangkok and what did that involve? The evidence is clear the soi dog approach does not work, I can see that every time we drive home or go to the shops

[proton]

38 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Where will you burn 780,000 dog carcasses over 10 years. How will you manage the army in the streets of BKK firing live ammo and howe do you deal with the dogs that escape.

Then how will you prevent other dogs from taking the place of the ones you've shot?

No problem burning them and no need for live fire, knock out darts, then slot and incinerate, and keep up the effort for months.

[kwilco]

23 minutes ago, proton said:

No problem burning them and no need for live fire, knock out darts, then slot and incinerate, and keep up the effort for months.

Itsquite clear you haven't got the faintess grasp of the issues.

You don't even know of the Bangkok cull.

 

[proton]

8 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Itsquite clear you haven't got the faintess grasp of the issues.

You don't even know of the Bangkok cull.

 

Ok oh wise and all knowing one lets have the dates, operation, areas covered and the outcome of this Bangkok cull you claim to know all about

[Screaming]

Isn't it interesting that civilized Western countries do not have the feral dog problem like Thailand. In the West, abandoned and feral dogs are rounded up by professional organizations and put in pounds. They are fed and taken care of with the hope that someone will adopt them. At some point they will be put down (killed and discarded) if they are not adopted. This is the human way to solve the problem not sterilize them and let them loose among the population to cause potential harm.

[spidermike007]

This is a beautiful thing. The last thing this world needs is more soi dogs. I would even go as far as advocating culling the population. It is not PC, and some will argue it is cruel, but being a soi dog is a cruel fate. 

[pedro01]

16 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

At least they do something to solve a problem ...

instead of the many forum members who are just moaning and complaining , but do nothing , or worse , just spread hatred against dogs .

 

These are not pet dogs. They are vermin like rats. One day Thailand will wake up and cull them.

[pedro01]

8 hours ago, billsmart said:

I've never heard of anyone being injured like that. Have you, or is that just a convenient rumor or fear you have? If you call "getting your face chewed off" a "catastrophe," what would you call your mother, father, brother, sister, or friends being poisoned or rounded up and given a fatal injection? I'd call that a massacre. ????

I was bitten by a soi dog. I was riding my bike and it just ran up and bit my thigh.

 

Luckily, I didn't come off the bike because I hate to think what the rest of the pack would have done. 

 

There was no warning, no barking, the thing just came up and bit me. It's been close a few times since while cycling.

 

So hospital and rabies jabs are all soi dogs have done for me - oh yes, and I ended up giving up cycling. Not sure why I should for vermin.

 

Perhaps when you are attacked, it'll change your mind. 

[pedro01]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

100% culling dogs doesn't work  this has been shown worldwide. 

Culling can only work on selected species in confined small areas....e g an island.

 

Digs rely on food and shelter to thrive.

Culling is NEVER  100% effective and birches with food and shelter can have 3 to 4 litters per year   the population bounces back   .. even more quickly as dogs from spinning areas quickly move back in. Culling in effect doesn't reduce the population it replaces it with healthier animals....it also aids rhe spread of rabies as dogs move about and interact of territories .

 

 

 

Give the head of every Amphur and village the job of culling, it's good for employment and it will work.

 

Also micro chip pets so that any strays can be traced back to prior owners who should be fined.

 

A small army of exterminators, each looking after their own small areas will do the trick. Easy.

[pedro01]

I find the anti-cull argument hilarious.

 

If you kill dogs in one area, they will move from another area

 

• Kill dogs in area A, there will immediately be less dogs in area A
• If dogs from area B move to area A, there will immediately be less dogs in Area B
• Either way, killing a dog results in 1 less dog
• The cull should involve permanent patrols in both Area A and B 
• Once area A is cleared, it will be kept cleared by regular patrols

They do this in a lot of countries, capture strays and kill them if nobody claims them. The UK does it, the US does it.

 

But Thailand has some sort of Zombie dogs that come back from the dead???

[kwilco]

Let's be clear scout 2 things...

 

1 - Culling dogs doesn't work.

 

2 - SDF reduced the stray dog population in Phuket from 80,000 to 6000.

 

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, pedro01 said:

I find the anti-cull argument hilarious.

 

If you kill dogs in one area, they will move from another area

 

• Kill dogs in area A, there will immediately be less dogs in area A
• If dogs from area B move to area A, there will immediately be less dogs in Area B
• Either way, killing a dog results in 1 less dog
• The cull should involve permanent patrols in both Area A and B 
• Once area A is cleared, it will be kept cleared by regular patrols

They do this in a lot of countries, capture strays and kill them if nobody claims them. The UK does it, the US does it.

 

But Thailand has some sort of Zombie dogs that come back from the dead???

Pedro you are so silly....dogs breed rapidly and if the food available is good they breed even more rapidly.

This is not debatable...it is proven.

 

Once a dog population is small then it can be managed....there is no culling in the UK, several dogs a few hundred are put down because of age or health....this is not culling.

The numbers of dogs in Thailand cannot be controlled with "regular patrols"

How do you propose to cull them?

[pedro01]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

Pedro you are so silly....dogs breed rapidly and if the food available is good they breed even more rapidly.

This is not debatable...it is proven.

 

Once a dog population is small then it can be managed....there is no culling in the UK, several dogs a few hundred are put down because of age or health....this is not culling.

The numbers of dogs in Thailand cannot be controlled with "regular patrols"

How do you propose to cull them?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2013/dec/08/dog-pounds-nightmare-christmas-unwanted-pets

 

"Lost, stray and abandoned dogs are sent to pounds such as this all over the UK, where they are kept for just seven days. Then, if no one claims them, or rescues can't offer a space, they are put down"

 

 

[pedro01]

https://petkeen.com/animal-shelter-statistics-uk/

 

This one does have sources at the bottom but.... in the UK...

 

 

"There are approximately 6,000 kill shelters in the UK. Kill shelters can be dog or cat pounds or organizations set up to kill animals for profit."

 

All this - and yet you do not see gangs of stray dogs roaming the UK. They are culled...

 

That's because over 600k are impounded a year. By a network that keeps the streets safe and clean from serial poopers.

Edited August 10, 2022 by pedro01