Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

quote "It is pretty obvious that the trump supporters on this thread/forum do not want to understand the severity of what trump has done, something which has been proven by the fact that documents have been found at his fortress."

 

 Severity? It sounds like a basic admin/paperwork error if even that. Precedent shows that even people who were not President had similar documentation at home, and it was deemed to be a non-event by the director of the FBI. Now, because its Trump, and the hatred for this man is way out of control thanks to all the lies, smears and hoaxes over the last 6 years, the left are suddenly concerned. It also appears that Trump DID have the power to declassify documents he wanted to take home for homework.

 

 

“Trump’s office, in a statement provided to John Solomon — the conservative journalist who is one of Trump’s authorized representatives to the National Archives — claimed late Friday that Trump often took classified documents to his residence and had issued a never-before-revealed “standing order” that all documents removed this way “were deemed to be declassified.” The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States,” the statement read. “The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/12/search-warrant-shows-trump-under-investigation-for-potential-obstruction-of-justice-espionage-act-violations-00051507

 

Looks more and more like game, set and match. Trump wins against a weaponized justice department for the 3rd, or it it 4th time now? I'm hoping the left learn from the latest defeat and start thinking about the disastrous state the country is in with Bidens inflation and the wars and all the bad stuff going on and start working to fix the country not hound and harass the man they are terrified of running against.

 

 

 

Yea, 'admin and paperwork error'.  LOL

 

Is there any lie 45 tells that you would not believe?

 

He is a traitor. Pure and simple. He had zero right to those docs, so the word for that in English is 'stolen'.

 

As for his bogus claim he 'declassified' all of them, anyone who believes that should be at the top of the mailing list of the Nigerian 419 scammers.

 

Having been involved in document declassification, I know how the system works. It is a long process that requires sign offs by relevant agency chiefs, so that nothing that could harm natsec or a clandestine asset/operation could be negatively impacted.

 

What a silly excuse you spout...admin and paperwork error. Have clearance and try that as a defense, and the guards at Leavenworth will be laughing hysterically as they lock the bars.

 

I'll state this again: presence of the docs at MaL  is a felony. Lying about returning everything shows intent to deceive, which suggests he intended to monetize the docs. That is Conspiracy to Commit Espionage, a capital offense. If charged and convicted, he can--and should---be executed.

 

His cult will either have to find a new false messiah, or else finally grow up.

[Berkshire]

9 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Maybe you need to try being civil rather than snarky.

Maybe you should just answer the rather simple question being asked, instead of being so sensitive/defensive.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

quote "It is pretty obvious that the trump supporters on this thread/forum do not want to understand the severity of what trump has done, something which has been proven by the fact that documents have been found at his fortress."

 

 Severity? It sounds like a basic admin/paperwork error if even that. Precedent shows that even people who were not President had similar documentation at home, and it was deemed to be a non-event by the director of the FBI. Now, because its Trump, and the hatred for this man is way out of control thanks to all the lies, smears and hoaxes over the last 6 years, the left are suddenly concerned. It also appears that Trump DID have the power to declassify documents he wanted to take home for homework.

 

 

“Trump’s office, in a statement provided to John Solomon — the conservative journalist who is one of Trump’s authorized representatives to the National Archives — claimed late Friday that Trump often took classified documents to his residence and had issued a never-before-revealed “standing order” that all documents removed this way “were deemed to be declassified.” The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States,” the statement read. “The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/12/search-warrant-shows-trump-under-investigation-for-potential-obstruction-of-justice-espionage-act-violations-00051507

 

Looks more and more like game, set and match. Trump wins against a weaponized justice department for the 3rd, or it it 4th time now? I'm hoping the left learn from the latest defeat and start thinking about the disastrous state the country is in with Bidens inflation and the wars and all the bad stuff going on and start working to fix the country not hound and harass the man they are terrified of running against.

 

"Precedent shows that even people who were not President had similar documentation at home, and it was deemed to be a non-event by the director of the FBI. "

 

Please tell us about these precedents that involved TS/SCI.  Better yet, provide credible references.

 

Regarding the rest of your post, I got a good laugh out of "a never-before-revealed" "standing order" to declassify documents without any documentation of the order or the documents declassified.  However I don't think the courts would find it as entertaining, and I pity the lawyer that makes the argument that this should be taken seriously.

[xylophone]

55 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Once again, nearly everyone seems to breeze past the point that as a past President, Mr Trump almost certainly gets handed classified material on a regular basis.

 

Ex-Presidents have always been kept abreast of the current and ongoing situations of the Nation.  They are considered a resource. They are people who happen to be uniquely qualified to provide suggestions, advise, and help to a sitting President, should that be needed.

 

But to BE a resource, they need to be kept informed. So they are!

 

So, why would a guy who regularly gets handed classified material............ ever believe he wasn't entitled  to have classified materials in his possession?

 

If youre going to send out mixed messages........... don't get tweaked when the person you're interacting with.......... doesn't behave the way you think he should! Lol

 

 

A nice ramble, but you've missed an important point here and that is, that trump is dumb and is only semiliterate, so no matter what is put in front of him or explained to him, he wouldn't have a clue, and as for being a "resource" well that is laughable.

 

Fact is he removed confidential/classified documents from the White House without getting the necessary, and much explained on this thread, clearance/sign off procedure to do so – – plain, pure and simple

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

The conspiracies are never ending. They could be worth billions, names of deep cover operatives and on and on.

 

For me it brings on a larger concern over how truly sensitive docs are handled and stored. Am I to believe that these sensitive materials which are detrimental to the security to the USA are stored in card board boxes at the White House which is where the first 15 boxes came from. The materials from this last search and seizure also came from the White House or so I read. Were these materials kept in a secure vault that Trump opened and then threw them in a box?

 

Or were they merely stacked up in a room accessible to many? Hopefully along the way of going after Trump some different security protocols will be established.  

You have now confirmed that you have never worked extensively with classified or in the bureaucracy of a large organization.

 

To answer your question:  Yes, many important documents are stored in cardboard boxes.  The security comes from the number of sturdy locks, doors, walls, and security checks a person would have to go through to get to them.  In the White House there would be a lot of security measures.  It is clear that was not the case at Mar-a-Lago.

[heybruce]

50 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Once again, nearly everyone seems to breeze past the point that as a past President, Mr Trump almost certainly gets handed classified material on a regular basis.

 

Ex-Presidents have always been kept abreast of the current and ongoing situations of the Nation.  They are considered a resource. They are people who happen to be uniquely qualified to provide suggestions, advise, and help to a sitting President, should that be needed.

 

But to BE a resource, they need to be kept informed. So they are!

 

So, why would a guy who regularly gets handed classified material............ ever believe he wasn't entitled  to have classified materials in his possession?

 

If youre going to send out mixed messages........... don't get tweaked when the person you're interacting with.......... doesn't behave the way you think he should! Lol

Circling back to "why would he" are you?

 

It doesn't matter why he would.  He did.  He kept these documents that did not belong to him, he failed to keep highly classified material properly secured, returned some but not all when all were requested, had his lawyer lie about not having any classified, etc. 

 

"Why would he?" is not a defense in court.

[heybruce]

39 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

"President Biden said on Friday that he would bar his predecessor, Donald J. Trump, from receiving intelligence briefings traditionally given to former presidents, saying that Mr. Trump could not be trusted because of his “erratic behavior” even before the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.

The move was the first time that a former president had been cut out of the briefings, which are provided partly as a courtesy and partly for the moments when a sitting president reaches out for advice. Currently, the briefings are offered on a regular basis to Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama."

 

Biden Bars Trump From Receiving Intelligence Briefings, Citing ‘Erratic Behavior’ - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

I question whether Trump received any intelligence briefings of significance after January 6.  I hope not.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Circling back to "why would he" are you?

 

It doesn't matter why he would.  He did.  He kept these documents that did not belong to him, he failed to keep highly classified material properly secured, returned some but not all when all were requested, had his lawyer lie about not having any classified, etc. 

 

"Why would he?" is not a defense in court.

Yes, in fact, it can be a defense in court.

[ThailandRyan]

48 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Yes, I am confident in Trump's judgement. This is not the first time(or 2nd) the "justice" departments have gone after Trump for alleged crimes that there was no evidence to support(because he was innocent). On the major issues Trump has been proven correct, and the FBI and others have been proven to have not acted honestly(FISA warrant to spy on Trump's campaign fiasco for example). To me, this means the FBI have zero credibility, they acted out of sheer hatred and a surety he was guilty due to this hatred, and Trump has extremely high credibility. When the list of Trump's "lies" was linked to on an earlier thread, about the first "lie" was him remembering the weather wrong on inauguration day, so I know the guy is as honest as the day is long if getting the weather wrong is one of the major "lies" he was accused of.  

 After somebody cries wolf several times, it is basic human nature to be highly doubtful if they again shriek there is a wolf coming. 

And as many times as Trump has cried wolf you still believe him.  The man says one thing and then does another, he hangs people out to dry who do not agree with him, and he incites violence to occur while he denies it ever happened yet he does nothing to stop it.  His rhetoric is like talking to a person with multiple personalities and he has shown this time and time again.  Can you really say you trust him with defending your life, your country, while he deals the backward hand to enrich himself at your expense?  Credibility you say, please show me this credibility he has?

[Berkshire]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I question whether Trump received any intelligence briefings of significance after January 6.  I hope not.

The only interest Trump would have in intelligence briefings now is if he could make money off it.  I don't think I'm exaggerating. 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

8 minutes ago, xylophone said:

A nice ramble, but you've missed an important point here and that is, that trump is dumb and is only semiliterate, so no matter what is put in front of him or explained to him, he wouldn't have a clue, and as for being a "resource" well that is laughable.

 

Fact is he removed confidential/classified documents from the White House without getting the necessary, and much explained on this thread, clearance/sign off procedure to do so – – plain, pure and simple

Bush receives them.

Carter receives them.

Obama receives them.

Clinton receives them. 

 

What I didn't know until today........... which I acknowledged above...........  is that Biden decided that Trump shouldn't  receive them.......... the first ever former President to be so denied.

 

Be that as it may, if Biden has decided that he should never consult with Trump, he's being foolish. A President has to consider things that no one else has to consider. Having an opportunity to consult with someone who's been in the same position, is invaluable........... regardless of who they are.

 

Good information is good information, regardless of the source!

[LosLobo]

9 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

The only interest Trump would have in intelligence briefings now is if he could make money off it.  I don't think I'm exaggerating. 

Trump Didn't Schedule Any Intel Briefings After Capitol Riot: Book (businessinsider.com)

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Yes, in fact, it can be a defense in court.

He has a better chance defending in court by pleading he doesn't know that he was breaking the law due to certain mental state. He can plead incompetency as his insanity defense. 

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Show me the narrative that we are saying he is guilty, please do....

OK, it didn't take me too long.

 

The second post of the attached thread, calling for him to be locked up hours after news of the raid broke.

 

Post 6 saying they wouldn't have done the raid unless they had good reason.

 

Post 7 saying the FBI must be damned sure a crime had been committed otherwise they wouldn't do it.

 

Post 12 stating it is another case of treason.

 

That's 4 examples in  the first 12 posts. Continue to read it if you need more.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Bush receives them.

Carter receives them.

Obama receives them.

Clinton receives them. 

 

What I didn't know until today........... which I acknowledged above...........  is that Biden decided that Trump shouldn't  receive them.......... the first ever former President to be so denied.

 

Be that as it may, if Biden has decided that he should never consult with Trump, he's being foolish. A President has to consider things that no one else has to consider. Having an opportunity to consult with someone who's been in the same position, is invaluable........... regardless of who they are.

 

Good information is good information, regardless of the source!

"Good information is good information, regardless of the source!"

 

I would imagine they weren't interested in his lover affair with Kim anymore since National Archives retrieved the letters in Jan.

[Eric Loh]

5 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Bush receives them.

Carter receives them.

Obama receives them.

Clinton receives them. 

 

What I didn't know until today........... which I acknowledged above...........  is that Biden decided that Trump shouldn't  receive them.......... the first ever former President to be so denied.

 

Be that as it may, if Biden has decided that he should never consult with Trump, he's being foolish. A President has to consider things that no one else has to consider. Having an opportunity to consult with someone who's been in the same position, is invaluable........... regardless of who they are.

 

Good information is good information, regardless of the source!

Hard to treat someone serious when that someone stared at the solar eclipse or wanted to buy Greenland and nuking hurricane as a solution. There are more but I will be kind and stop here. 

[Walker88]

I think it is appropriate to comment on the current state of the former Party of Lincoln, the repubs.

 

They are 100% a cult of personality. Nothing more. Then have no policy, no philosophy, they stand for nothing other than 45, and they have no concept or concern for the ideals upon which the US was built. It's a Cult only.

 

National security? They couldn't care less. Recklessness with classified material is only bad if it's HRC; 45 can do whatever he wants, jeopardize natsec to his heart's content, and repubs do not care. If russia attacked the US, repubs would side with putin. Certainly 45 would, because he's a traitor.

 

Democracy? They hate it and have spent the last couple of years trying to wipe out democracy in the US.

 

Rule of law?  Meaningless to them. They try to get away with crimes, like sedition, insurrection, voter fraud, even manufacturing fake electors. They think they are above the law, hence their snowflake cries and claiming of victimhood when the DoJ and FBI do their jobs.

 

Fiscal conservatism? LOL. 45 ran up $7,000,000,000,000 in new debt in his 4 years, exacerbated by the tax cut for the Donor Class.

 

Freedom? They hate it if it is someone else's. repubs love big and intrusive govt that goes into the bedroom and into women's bodies.

 

repubs believe in autocracy, self-dealing, drinking from the Taxpayer trough, and worship of an individual, especially a wildly flawed individual with zero character or integrity or morality.

 

Everyone from Lincoln to Howard Baker is likely rolling over in their graves seeing the cesspool that the repub party has become.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This is a discussion forum, it’s not any part of deliberations within the criminal Justice system.

 

The presumption of innocence is not applicable to personal opinions and personal opinions differ.

 

 

Please try to come to terms with this.

Oh I have come to terms with it. It was actually the very point I was making. I'm glad we can agree that many of the "Progressives" on this forum have decided he is guilty before there is due process. They haven't even seen any evidence yet.

 

Doesn't sound very 'progressive' to me. But then, neither does CRT and other outdated nonsense pushed by the "Liberals". 

[heybruce]

26 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Yes, in fact, it can be a defense in court.

If "Why would he?" is the entire defense, the case will be resolved quickly.

[heybruce]

15 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Bush receives them.

Carter receives them.

Obama receives them.

Clinton receives them. 

 

What I didn't know until today........... which I acknowledged above...........  is that Biden decided that Trump shouldn't  receive them.......... the first ever former President to be so denied.

 

Be that as it may, if Biden has decided that he should never consult with Trump, he's being foolish. A President has to consider things that no one else has to consider. Having an opportunity to consult with someone who's been in the same position, is invaluable........... regardless of who they are.

 

Good information is good information, regardless of the source!

And bad information is best avoided.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

33 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Maybe you should just answer the rather simple question being asked, instead of being so sensitive/defensive.

Don't try to blame me for your own bad behavior. How I responded is not the point. Your bad behavior is the point. In a world of Cause and Effect, it's Cause  that earns the blame, not Effect!

 

Ultimately, you didn't get an answer your question.......... because your decision to be snarky proved you didn't deserve  an answer. 

 

Pffft!

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

And bad information is best avoided.

Man, that means I should've stopped reading about 30 pages ago!

[ThailandRyan]

16 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

OK, it didn't take me too long.

 

The second post of the attached thread, calling for him to be locked up hours after news of the raid broke.

 

Post 6 saying they wouldn't have done the raid unless they had good reason.

 

Post 7 saying the FBI must be damned sure a crime had been committed otherwise they wouldn't do it.

 

Post 12 stating it is another case of treason.

 

That's 4 examples in  the first 12 posts. Continue to read it if you need more.

 

 

Show me in this OP, not another OP....you really went the distance to prove you were right when in reality you have not shown in this OP you are.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

14 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Hard to treat someone serious when that someone stared at the solar eclipse or wanted to buy Greenland and nuking hurricane as a solution. There are more but I will be kind and stop here. 

Someone back in the past

stared at a solar eclipse

and discovered that they shouldn't have; that it could blind them, fully or partially.

 

Should everyone thereafter who is considering looking at a solar eclipse............NOT talk to this poor sap that blinded himself, to find out what went wrong, and why?

 

Trump has been President of the United States. He equates to 20% of the people alive who have ever had that job: 1 of 5. 

 

When there are only 5 people in the world who know what you're up against ........... shunning one of them is foolish! Even if that one is a buffoon like Trump!

 

 

[nauseus]

32 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I think it is appropriate to comment on the current state of the former Party of Lincoln, the repubs.

 

They are 100% a cult of personality. Nothing more. Then have no policy, no philosophy, they stand for nothing other than 45, and they have no concept or concern for the ideals upon which the US was built. It's a Cult only.

 

National security? They couldn't care less. Recklessness with classified material is only bad if it's HRC; 45 can do whatever he wants, jeopardize natsec to his heart's content, and repubs do not care. If russia attacked the US, repubs would side with putin. Certainly 45 would, because he's a traitor.

 

Democracy? They hate it and have spent the last couple of years trying to wipe out democracy in the US.

 

Rule of law?  Meaningless to them. They try to get away with crimes, like sedition, insurrection, voter fraud, even manufacturing fake electors. They think they are above the law, hence their snowflake cries and claiming of victimhood when the DoJ and FBI do their jobs.

 

Fiscal conservatism? LOL. 45 ran up $7,000,000,000,000 in new debt in his 4 years, exacerbated by the tax cut for the Donor Class.

 

Freedom? They hate it if it is someone else's. repubs love big and intrusive govt that goes into the bedroom and into women's bodies.

 

repubs believe in autocracy, self-dealing, drinking from the Taxpayer trough, and worship of an individual, especially a wildly flawed individual with zero character or integrity or morality.

 

Everyone from Lincoln to Howard Baker is likely rolling over in their graves seeing the cesspool that the repub party has become.

All sounds like a near perfect description of the democrats.

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Show me in this OP, not another OP....you really went the distance to prove you were right when in reality you have not shown in this OP you are.

Actually, I said "a large number of people on this thread would do well to bear this in mind". 

 

As you will no doubt note, the people who made those comments on the other thread are also present on this thread. So your point, while extremely pedantic, is also moot.

 

Not a bad effort though... ???? 

[ballpoint]

The DOJ have effectively put paid to speculation that this search was only aimed at retrieving the documents and no more.  It has stated that it will not be releasing the affidavit used to get the search warrant, unless a court order specifically requests they do so, as it was still under seal due to ongoing criminal and national security investigations. ie, at least two serious investigations relating to these documents are still ongoing.

 

 

[SunnyinBangrak]

49 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

"Good information is good information, regardless of the source!"

 

I would imagine they weren't interested in his lover affair with Kim anymore since National Archives retrieved the letters in Jan.

Why are you mocking President Trump over one of his greatest successes? Normalizing relations with North Korea pre Trump was as ridiculous a notion as bringing back American jobs. It would have taken a "magic wand" to establish a respectful relationship with the renegade nation. Yet that is exactly what Trump did. The incredible footage as Kim and Trump walked together across the border - just mind-blowing - even if the US msm ruined the world changing events by pushing the now debunked Trump Russia collusion hoax on the same day(he'll be in jail tomorrow, yipee we got him now, don't drop the soap - yes I revisited the thread) which overshadowed the actual events taking place on the ground.

 

 And you accuse Trump, without evidence, of having a homosexual love affair with Kim Jong-un. Charming. Yet my impression from all these trolly comments is this latest fishing expedition is just as big a failure as the last few. What doesn't kill Trump makes him stronger - would make a catchy pop tune.

[Bruno123]

58 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Oh I have come to terms with it. It was actually the very point I was making. I'm glad we can agree that many of the "Progressives" on this forum have decided he is guilty before there is due process. They haven't even seen any evidence yet.

 

Doesn't sound very 'progressive' to me. But then, neither does CRT and other outdated nonsense pushed by the "Liberals". 

Is it possible for you to have a discussion without demonstrating your very obvious bias?

Most people using this forum are not American, so are only interested in facts, not ridiculous political conspiracy theories; so all of your blather with regard to your hatred of anyone who doesn't agree with your politics is more than tedious.

What I want to know is why he kept the documents. Don't you want to know that?

Stop trying to deflect by playing partisan politics all of the time. It's already tedious.

 

 

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Why are you mocking President Trump over one of his greatest successes? Normalizing relations with North Korea

trump did not acheive normalising relations with N.K.