Self insure v health insurance

[The Hammer2021]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

"except COPD" is a very big exception given that COPD puts you at elevated risk of heart disease.

 

Many insurers would refuse to insure you altogether. Any that would  insure you would certainly exclude both cardiac and pulmonary problems (and yes, that is a huge exclusion).

 

The other exclusions though (prostate, bone etc) is something peculiar to PC and based on your age regardless of medical history. They exclude conditions that are more common in older people. Makes no sense to me since the increased risk due to age is already reflected in much  higher premiums. 

 

I would not in any case recommend a policy from  Thai company.

 

If you want to look elsewhere given your age I would suggest Cigna Global (NOT Cigna Thailand). They may refuse to insure you altogether or else exclude cardiac and pulmonary conditions but they won't  come back with all those other age related exclusions. 

I used Thai life insurance 25k a year at 63 years old - single  rooms etc

[internationalism]

3 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Basically people who can't afford  health insurance argue  against  it.

Others who don't  understand  health insurance argue against  it.

the best for value policies are from the PC.

The Premium Plus policy covering a reasonable 3mln is 100k from age 66, 150k from 71, 200k from 76, 250k from 81, over 320k from 86. They don't publish from 91 - probably around 400k, and from 96 - probably around 500k per year.

So if you take that policy at 65 (the last year which they don't require medical checks and don't have any pre-existing) and hope to live to 99, you are going to fork out minimum 10mln. 

With 300k deductible you will pay over 5mln.

If large claiming your rate jumps by 25% for 2 years and very likely they dump you shortly after.

 

For the next 20 post-covid years rates will be rising by some 5% per year and over inflation rate, due to deluge of large claims.

Personally I would be able to afford those premiums to age 80, that if I am still reasonable healthy (no claims)   

[internationalism]

56 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I used Thai life insurance 25k a year at 63 years old - single  rooms etc

for that premium cover is max 450k/year/condition.

If you look into details, it covers very little.

It won't fully cover single room + service and board at the governmental hospital.

And check for premiums over 80 - likely above 100k/year

[internationalism]

3 hours ago, proton said:

Everyone in the UK is offered screening for colon cancer when they reach 60. They send a test kit every two years. I think it only tests for blood being present, but it might be more than that these days

occult stool blood supposed to be checked yearly and 3 samples over time. Bleeding occur only periodically.

Colonoscopy every 10 years (some sources say from age 45) so about 3 in lifetime

[rumak]

2 hours ago, internationalism said:

the best for value policies are from the PC.

The Premium Plus policy covering a reasonable 3mln is 100k from age 66, 150k from 71, 200k from 76, 250k from 81, over 320k from 86. They don't publish from 91 - probably around 400k, and from 96 - probably around 500k per year.

So if you take that policy at 65 (the last year which they don't require medical checks and don't have any pre-existing) and hope to live to 99, you are going to fork out minimum 10mln. 

With 300k deductible you will pay over 5mln.

If large claiming your rate jumps by 25% for 2 years and very likely they dump you shortly after.

 

For the next 20 post-covid years rates will be rising by some 5% per year and over inflation rate, due to deluge of large claims.

Personally I would be able to afford those premiums to age 80, that if I am still reasonable healthy (no claims)   

And won't it be fun,  when you are near 80 and unfortunately have some "serious event"  that

might occur.     There you are,  sitting with tubes in your body and trying to fight with the insurance company when they present you with the  "sorry . not covered for that"  list .

Oh,  and don't forget those deductables .

[jerrymahoney]

48 minutes ago, rumak said:

And won't it be fun,  when you are near 80 and unfortunately have some "serious event"  that

might occur.     There you are,  sitting with tubes in your body and trying to fight with the insurance company when they present you with the  "sorry . not covered for that"  list .

Oh,  and don't forget those deductables .

Yes they could hypothetically deny the claim. They could also hypothetically pay the claim.

 

On another this- type topic I was asked Well what if they denied your claim? even after I said they had already paid the claim.

Edited August 22, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

If you want to look elsewhere given your age I would suggest Cigna Global (NOT Cigna Thailand). They may refuse to insure you altogether or else exclude cardiac and pulmonary conditions but they won't  come back with all those other age related exclusions. 

First time I've noticed you not recommending April France, any reason?

[jerrymahoney]

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

First time I've noticed you not recommending April France, any reason?

Max. application age April France 65.

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Actually it is not that it is unlikely that you will develop colon cancer but that past  certain age the risks of a colonoscopy begin to outweigh the benefits -- especially if you already had negative tests. 72 is a bit young to stop though. In the US it us recommended toutinely until age 75 then on case by case basis for ages 76 - 85 (depending on risk factors).  In UK I think it is up to age 74.

I am 79, so my last colonoscopy was at age 75.

[Excel]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am 79, so my last colonoscopy was at age 75.

A slight tad younger than you, never had one nor never will along with all checks pills and potions people on here think it is vital for them to get. Survived this long without being a hypochondriac with the flu being my worst illness so a few more years will do me fine.  Perhaps that is what comes with ignoring all the health nuts all my life eating and drinking what I like when I like, in moderation of course. Perhaps the stress of people imagining they may be ill and getting checked to confirm they are not ill is worse than  the disease itself? And no I am not the only one that lucky as there are no doubt millions of others like me who have never won the lottery either ????

[jerrymahoney]

This page gives a lot of statistic on colon cancer occurrence and morbidity. But the main point is:

 

When colorectal cancer is found early, it can often be cured .

 

https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/colorectal-cancer/statistics

 

And finding it early mostly means finding it before there are any outwardly recognizable symptoms.

Edited August 23, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Excel said:

A slight tad younger than you, never had one nor never will along with all checks pills and potions people on here think it is vital for them to get. Survived this long without being a hypochondriac with the flu being my worst illness so a few more years will do me fine.  Perhaps that is what comes with ignoring all the health nuts all my life eating and drinking what I like when I like, in moderation of course. Perhaps the stress of people imagining they may be ill and getting checked to confirm they are not ill is worse than  the disease itself? And no I am not the only one that lucky as there are no doubt millions of others like me who have never won the lottery either ????

Some people DO win the lottery in terms of their genetic inheritance, they are called statistical outliers.

 

There's a saying in quality control, if you don't measure it, you can't control it. I have no problem with regular health checks, because then I may be able to do something about a parameter which is abnormal. I'd rather know about a problem than ignore it, for my own peace of mind. And as Sheryl has said, always best to treat cancer early.

 

Having regular colonoscopies was recommended for me because I had an uncle who died of bowel cancer. As no one else in a pretty extensive family has had it, it's probably fair to say his might have been a result of lifestyle or environment, not genetics.

 

We are entirely on the same page as far as pharmaceuticals go. I am living proof, as I have dispensed with 5 pills I was taking 6  years ago. I no longer need them, due to a combination of diet and exercise. The measurements I do verify stopping them is valid.

 

As a bonus, I have also retreated from the precipice of Type 2 diabetes, would probably be taking another pill if I had not.

[sanuk711]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:16 PM, PJ71 said:

The 250K you've saved will not go far.

 

Someone i knew spent 3 nights in ICU at 150K per night.

It does sound a little OTT pj71..... I understand --- Thailand = prices are not the same. But a friend came out of Udon Thani hospital Sunday after 3 days in ICU for mild stroke 16,000 Bht included a CST scan 6,000 they insisted he took before leaving.

I wrote here about the 4 nights 3 blood transfusions I had at Khon Kean Heart Hospital last year, 14,000Bht. not ICU

 

Yes--Issan isn't BKK - Phuket or Pattaya..... I am so happy to say.

[sanuk711]

On 8/21/2022 at 4:43 PM, Adelphi said:

I now need to decide whether to buy health insurance or self insure.  My preference is to self insure as I instinctively dislike insurance companies.

I think you should take out accident insurance, especially if you intend to ride a bike here --you can get that from any Bank here for about 5,000 Bht a year.

This for any type of accident---but its a sliding scale just a few 100 thousand...for most accidents & it drops sharply for motor bike accidents.

 

Try to understand why it does before you start riding here.........

[jerrymahoney]

My first colonoscopy at around age 50 and while still in the States, was because the GI doctor, who was a golfing buddy of my father, recommended that I should do it. I called United Healthcare, my insurance company at the time, and asked if they would cover colonoscopy.

 

Their answer: Yes we will. And we wish more people would do it.

Edited August 23, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[Richard 2020]

15 hours ago, SteveBull said:

I think you can rest easy - I've lived there for years and to date I haven't come across a single case of 'double pricing' and being married to a Thai I'm pretty sure I would have spotted one by now

Can it be that they never leave the house?

 

I live here permanently now 32 years!

And double, and even higher, prices for farang, I see daily!!!

In almost all tourist facilities, in parks, in hospitals even more so, due to the farang-friendly decision of the government, for some years even in de government hospitals!

 

Or you just don't want to see that...???

Edited August 23, 2022 by Richard 2020

[Richard 2020]

I was before, NEVER at a screening, for what also?

Because of my COPD, which I have caused myself, by 40 years of heavy smoking, I have to take medication. This disease will not insure ANY health insurance!!!

If I am well, I do not need a doctor, if I am not well, I go to my family doctor!

For 16 years I no longer smoke, and the difference is already huge!

I get up for years at 6 o'clock, then walk 20 floors (400 steps) in my condo, then I go swimming for 20 minutes. I do all this 3 times a day! In addition, I walk daily between 6 and 12 km!

I have an accident insurance for 200.000.-THB since 6 years.
And a Visa friendly health insurance for 600.000.-THB with an excess of 200.000,.THB for 3 years.
This is my emergency insurance! 7/24 available, everything in Thai, can go to any private hospital, and the hospital immediately sees that he already 600.000.-THB and in case of accident 200.000.-THB are safe!
Contact with the insurance 24 hours a day guaranteed!

So that must be enough for the first... ????

[Chris.B]

1 hour ago, sanuk711 said:

I think you should take out accident insurance, especially if you intend to ride a bike here --you can get that from any Bank here for about 5,000 Bht a year.

This for any type of accident---but its a sliding scale just a few 100 thousand...for most accidents & it drops sharply for motor bike accidents.

 

Try to understand why it does before you start riding here.........

Regardless of age?

 

[sanuk711]

4 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Regardless of age?

Yes--once again its accident not illness--- so age isn't the most important thing , under 65 is about 2,500Bht a year--but we are not talking about large amounts paid out here--its aimed primary at the Thai market---but for someone who doesn't want full insurance --then just a bit of a cushion to help.

------

Here is one bank BKKI hope its OK to post link.   for 16--65 years   https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/My-Family-and-Me/Bancassurance/BKI/PA-1st/PA-1st-Smart

[scubascuba3]

15 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Yes--once again its accident not illness--- so age isn't the most important thing , under 65 is about 2,500Bht a year--but we are not talking about large amounts paid out here--its aimed primary at the Thai market---but for someone who doesn't want full insurance --then just a bit of a cushion to help.

------

Here is one bank BKKI hope its OK to post link.   for 16--65 years   https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/My-Family-and-Me/Bancassurance/BKI/PA-1st/PA-1st-Smart

A better policy is Axa, 200k medical expenses per accident for 6,500 baht a year. I still have the old policy 250k for 6,900 baht

[sanuk711]

13 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

A better policy is Axa, 200k medical expenses per accident for 6,500 baht a year. I still have the old policy 250k for 6,900 bah

Sounds good , so I tried to look it up--- but when it asks for your age , its calendar only goes back to 1952.......

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by sanuk711

[scubascuba3]

11 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Sounds good , so I tried to look it up--- but when it asks for your age , its calendar only goes back to 1952.......

 

 

Ah yes often 65 is the limit, although I've not double checked this policy

[Chris.B]

43 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Here is one bank BKKI hope its OK to post link.   for 16--65 years   https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/My-Family-and-Me/Bancassurance/BKI/PA-1st/PA-1st-Smart

So there is an age limit, 65 years old.  ☹️

[sanuk711]

11 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

So there is an age limit, 65 years old.

No Chris.B....... I was talking to scubascuba3 about his policy being cut off at 65.......  

 

the age limit for the one I mentioned to you  is 100 years......but cost 5,000Bht a year not 2,500Bht for the under 65

 

I have only looked at 2 banks that I have been with, but I think they are all the same.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/My-Family-and-Me/Bancassurance/BKI/PA-1st

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by sanuk711

[Chris.B]

1 hour ago, sanuk711 said:

the age limit for the one I mentioned to you  is 100 years......but cost 5,000Bht a year not 2,500Bht for the under 65

 

I have only looked at 2 banks that I have been with, but I think they are all the same.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/My-Family-and-Me/Bancassurance/BKI/PA-1st

The insured must not be disabled! ????

The insured must have a good health record! ????

The insured must not have a serious illness or chronic disease! ????

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Chris.B

[SteveBull]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:08 PM, Lacessit said:

How do you manage to get treatment at an Army hospital? Thai ID card? Married to a Thai? An army connection?

Just walk up - I have got a Thai ID card and married to a Thai but the only thing they've ever asked me for is my passport.

 

I thought I had broken my foot a few months back, they x-rayed it (not broken), strapped it up, consultation with a bone doctor, few painkillers etc - 400 baht !

[SteveBull]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:46 PM, internationalism said:

from 2019 the governmental hospitals can add 25% to foreigner bill. Siriraj hospital in bangkok has posters on all wards since then.

that charge suppose to cover vip treatment - shorter lines for tests, treatments, seeing doctor's consultation. In practice they don't have internal procedures to facilitate that, so it just double pricing.

For hospitalisation a foreigner will be offered the most expensive room. I was quoted 7.5k for a private, so I opted for a common room for 2.5k. They took an advantage of me because I needed urgent hospitalisation.

After that hospitalisation I have shopped around I found a neighbouring hospital charging 3.8-9.5k (or 2.9k in a double room) and 1350b for a common. That prices are all inclusive. The first hospital doesn't publish their prices and doesn't offer choice between private rooms, the second does.

 

 

But surely that happens everywhere right ? Hospital competition is the US is cut throat with a massive range of prices and in the UK, if you wish to go private you will be gouged to death before you've got anywhere near a surgical gown. I don't know if it ever got off the ground but the UK were looking at foreigner surcharges due to the amount of foreigners using the NHS for free having paid nothing into the system (all the expensive stuff such as HIV treatment, births etc etc) so I guess, and it's only a guess that the Thais are going down the same route of setting fees commensurate with how much you've paid into the system.

 

In Hua Hin's main hospital they have a VIP option 250 baht I think it is - if you don't pay it you've got a hefty wait in the busiest hospital in stifling conditions, if you do pay it you are taken to a different area and seen within the hour. They could put another zero on the end of that and given the options I would still pay it personally.

[SteveBull]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:28 AM, Richard 2020 said:

Can it be that they never leave the house?

 

I live here permanently now 32 years!

And double, and even higher, prices for farang, I see daily!!!

In almost all tourist facilities, in parks, in hospitals even more so, due to the farang-friendly decision of the government, for some years even in de government hospitals!

 

Or you just don't want to see that...???

lol how many times has that picture been used by the outraged double pricing people. Have you been there or just googled it ? 

 

I'm never in the house, still never been 'double priced to my knowledge, trust me the wife would pick it up. Perhaps I don't go looking for it, or the amounts are so trivial it doesn't set off my stress levels ? Accept it or take your business elsewhere and miss out on some great experiences for the sake of a few coins. (which at the end of the day also go to the running costs of those areas)

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, SteveBull said:

I'm never in the house, still never been 'double priced to my knowledge, trust me the wife would pick it up.

Your wife is always with you when you end up at the hospital planned or not-planned?

[Richard 2020]

He, don't mind a few more coins....!!

 

In addition, his wife regulates everything for him... ,Of course at Thai prices ! ????