Biden cancels $10,000 in federal student loan debt for most borrowers

[Tanlic]

Does anyone for one minute think that Biden and Co actually care about the working class or students.

 

Everything he does is geared to try and get votes and to hell with the cost.

 

He appoint a black woman who in no way is qualified  to be VP but it got him famale votes and black votes

the fact she's near on useless..well that doesn't matter.

 

Now he's aiming at getting students to vote for him and fool the people into thinking he's Santa Clause.

 

The truth is the Biden days are a disaster and the entire world is suffering one way or another because

the media propoganda, the constant attacks on Trump and the deep state money put an idiot in charge.

 

Trump is no angel but at least things were good when he was in....no wars for akick of because no one would dare cross him

Let's not mention fuel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LarrySR]

34 minutes ago, Tanlic said:

Does anyone for one minute think that Biden and Co actually care about the working class or students.

 

Everything he does is geared to try and get votes and to hell with the cost.

 

He appoint a black woman who in no way is qualified  to be VP but it got him famale votes and black votes

the fact she's near on useless..well that doesn't matter.

 

Now he's aiming at getting students to vote for him and fool the people into thinking he's Santa Clause.

 

The truth is the Biden days are a disaster and the entire world is suffering one way or another because

the media propoganda, the constant attacks on Trump and the deep state money put an idiot in charge.

 

Trump is no angel but at least things were good when he was in....no wars for akick of because no one would dare cross him

Let's not mention fuel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Out of touch with reality.
That’s the problem with Fox viewers.

[nauseus]

52 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

When a reporter asked the president whether his plan was unfair to those who have repaid student loans or chose not to borrow in the first place, Biden replied, “Is it fair to people who, in fact, do not own multi-billion-dollar businesses if they see one of these guys getting all the tax breaks? Is that fair? What do you think?”

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/morning-report/3615080-the-hills-morning-report-will-bidens-student-loan-plan-pump-up-the-base/

Well we can't expect an answer to the question can we? 

[Silencer]

Put myself and 3 kids through the US university system over the years. No loans. I don't feel cheated in any way by this hand-out. The US government funds a lot of stupid things and has some very questionable hand-outs. but I can support this one. Good luck to all those that this will help. Now, get to work and be productive!

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well we can't expect an answer to the question can we? 

The question was what about those people who didn't benefit from the loans or fit the income limits. None of those people are financially damaged, they just got their little feelings hurt. The question was trite.

[300sd]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

So you believe the US is on its final legs and going under....better think again my friend, others will fall well before the US.

Yes, the US is the best looking horse in the glue factory.

[metisdead]

Flashback: Nancy Pelosi Said President Lacks Authority to ‘Forgive’ Student Debt

In July of 2021, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said President Joe Biden does not have the executive authority to issue “debt forgiveness,” arguing that such action would be illegal and that it has “to be an act of Congress.”

 

“People think that the President of the United States has the power for debt forgiveness. He does not.  

 

Read more here:  https://www.nationalreview.com/news/flashback-nancy-pelosi-says-president-lacks-authority-to-forgive-student-debt/

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The question was what about those people who didn't benefit from the loans or fit the income limits. None of those people are financially damaged, they just got their little feelings hurt. The question was trite.

The question was a fair one. 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies about Trump have been removed.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

This is an almost verbatim quote from Mitch McConnell yesterday. It might have been nice if you attributed it. I saw it by chance reported on CNN.

"Almost verbatim" means......... it isn't.

 

Perhaps you'd like to provide a link to McConnell's actual words, so we can see how close your "almost" actually is............?

 

(But remember, people who are speaking the truth or saying something fairly obvious......... tend to say very similar things. It's the people who make things up who tend to be all over the place.

 

Truth inherently limits the variety of things that can be said. Those being untruthful, on the other hand, really have no boundaries!)

 

Cheers!

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

"Almost verbatim" means......... it isn't.

 

Perhaps you'd like to provide a link to McConnell's actual words, so we can see how close your "almost" actually is............?

 

(But remember, people who are speaking the truth or saying something fairly obvious......... tend to say very similar things. It's the people who make things up who tend to be all over the place.

 

Truth inherently limits the variety of things that can be said. Those being untruthful, on the other hand, really have no boundaries!)

 

Cheers!

I did here. There are couple of key words in his comments which are exactly the same as yours and don't give me the story about the monkey on a typewriter eventually writing the same words. It's clear you are paraphrasing talking points, having read them on some website.

[EVENKEEL]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I did here. There are couple of key words in his comments which are exactly the same as yours and don't give me the story about the monkey on a typewriter eventually writing the same words. It's clear you are paraphrasing talking points, having read them on some website.

I said what I said, guess great minds think alike. And I'm sure many others would have said almost the same words. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, metisdead said:

Flashback: Nancy Pelosi Said President Lacks Authority to ‘Forgive’ Student Debt

In July of 2021, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said President Joe Biden does not have the executive authority to issue “debt forgiveness,” arguing that such action would be illegal and that it has “to be an act of Congress.”

 

“People think that the President of the United States has the power for debt forgiveness. He does not.  

 

Read more here:  https://www.nationalreview.com/news/flashback-nancy-pelosi-says-president-lacks-authority-to-forgive-student-debt/

Opinions differ:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2022/05/04/biden-has-power-to-cancel-student-loans-for-every-federal-borrower-attorneys-general-say/?sh=685e9c1ac1a8

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Not as simple as you'd like to believe. 

 

So, the rich received the lion’s share of the tax cut. But they also pay the lion’s share of taxes. The top 1 percent pay 30.2 percent, the top 5 percent pay 51.1 percent, the top quintile pays 80.1 percent and the bottom quintile pays negative 9.0 percent.

Hence, TCJA was progressive as conventionally defined. The rich received less than a proportionate share of TCJA’s total tax cut. The very poor benefited even though they pay negative net taxes.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2019/07/23/did-the-rich-get-all-of-trumps-tax-cuts/

Except that there are a few a huge problem with that calculation.  For one thing, it considers only the 1 percent. Not the 0.1% or the 0.01%.The IRS only counts income earned on assets when they are sold. Like stock shares. The thing is, that tax bill gave a big stimulus not to the economy but to the price of stock shares. So, what people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and the superwealthy do, is to borrow from a bank against those shares. That loan does not count as income so no taxes are paid on it. That's why people like Bezos or Musk can have years when they pay no income taxes at all. (What makes it even worse is that when these multibillionaires die, any potential capital gains tax is eliminated. The assets pass to the inheritors with a blank tax slate).

“It is a simple fact that billionaires in America can live very extraordinarily well completely tax-free off their wealth,” law professor Edward J. McCaffery writes.[17] They can borrow large sums against their holdings (i.e., their unrealized capital gains) without generating “taxable” income. Larry Ellison, Oracle’s chief executive officer and one of the world’s richest people, pledged part of his Oracle stock as collateral for a $10 billion credit line.[18

^{https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/propublica-shows-how-little-the-wealthiest-pay-in-taxes-policymakers-should}

America’s richest 400 families pay a lower tax rate than average taxpayer

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/23/americas-richest-400-families-pay-a-lower-tax-rate-than-average-taxpayer.html

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The question was a fair one. 

Yes, the question is a fair one and deserves an answer.

 

Yes, it IS a "slap in the face" to all those who have honorably repaid their student loans, as agreed.

 

Yes, it IS a "slap on the face" of all those who worked to pay their own way, choosing to pay as they go, rather than putting themselves in debt.

 

But who cares? 

 

I think it's "unfair" that some people win the lottery, when I haven't.

 

I think it's "unfair" that some people are 6ft 9 and can get a professional basketball contract worth millions, that at 6ft 0, I could never get.

 

I think it's "unfair" that the US discontinued the draft AFTER millions of boys had already been drafted; many of whom had already been killed or injured......... even though I benefited from that personally. (18 in 1975!)

 

I think it's "unfair" that they developed a vaccine for chicken pox AFTER I had already had it, and my first wife had had it FOUR TIMES!

 

But who cares?

 

Yes, it IS a "slap in the face" to those who might have benefited from it.......... if they'd only known, beforehand, that a certain kind of dishonor......... was going to be rewarded! (Because there are ALWAYS people who will choose dishonor for personal gain!)

 

But I say "Who Cares?" because....... ultimately........ it's the wrong question!

 

Ultimately, the right question is..........

 

Is the fact that some people will feel "slapped"......... a reason to NOT  do this thing that we CAN do----a thing that may, in fact, be very beneficial to millions?

 

Seriously, is that really a good enough reason?

 

The simple fact is, every decision the government makes........... helps some people and harms others. Every one! That's the simple reality. So the goal ultimately can never be to harm no one, because that's not possible.

 

The goal, ultimately, can only be to help as many people as possible......... while harming as few as possible!

 

And in this case......... as much as I hate the idea, personally.......... I realize the only effective "harm" being done is to hurt some people's feelings........

 

I guess I can live with that! 

 

So yes, some people are going to feel "slapped in the face" by this! Some will!

 

But who cares?

 

Because as the saying goes, "Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you!" So deal with it; move on! Next time, it may be YOU who benefits, not them!

 

A "slap on the face?" Yes!

 

So what? Who cares?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hanaguma]

This is gonna cost $300 BILLION, according to the Wharton Business School. 

 

If the government has that much cash to throw at education, how about spending it a bit more wisely? For example, means tested scholarships for students who want to learn trades (electrician, plumber, carpenter etc). Scholarships for STEM fields. 

 

But loan repayments for people who majored in Womyn's Victimization Studies or Botswanian Tapestry Weaving?  Give me a break. 

 

But I guess we know the answer. Those kinds of programmes won 't buy votes for the Democrats in the mid terms. 

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Yes, the question is a fair one and deserves an answer.

 

Yes, it IS a "slap in the face" to all those who have honorably repaid their student loans, as agreed.

 

Yes, it IS a "slap on the face" of all those who worked to pay their own way, choosing to pay as they go, rather than putting themselves in debt.

 

But who cares? 

 

I think it's "unfair" that some people win the lottery, when I haven't.

 

I think it's "unfair" that some people are 6ft 9 and can get a professional basketball contract worth millions, that at 6ft 0, I could never get.

 

I think it's "unfair" that the US discontinued the draft AFTER millions of boys had already been drafted; many of whom had already been killed or injured......... even though I benefited from that personally. (18 in 1975!)

 

I think it's "unfair" that they developed a vaccine for chicken pox AFTER I had already had it, and my first wife had had it FOUR TIMES!

 

But who cares?

 

Yes, it IS a "slap in the face" to those who might have benefited from it.......... if they'd only known, beforehand, that a certain kind of dishonor......... was going to be rewarded! (Because there are ALWAYS people who will choose dishonor for personal gain!)

 

But I say "Who Cares?" because....... ultimately........ it's the wrong question!

 

Ultimately, the right question is..........

 

Is the fact that some people will feel "slapped"......... a reason to NOT  do this thing that we CAN do----a thing that may, in fact, be very beneficial to millions?

 

Seriously, is that really a good enough reason?

 

The simple fact is, every decision the government makes........... helps some people and harms others. Every one! That's the simple reality. So the goal ultimately can never be to harm no one, because that's not possible.

 

The goal, ultimately, can only be to help as many people as possible......... while harming as few as possible!

 

And in this case......... as much as I hate the idea, personally.......... I realize the only effective "harm" being done is to hurt some people's feelings........

 

I guess I can live with that! 

 

So yes, some people are going to feel "slapped in the face" by this! Some will!

 

But who cares?

 

Because as the saying goes, "Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you!" So deal with it; move on! Next time, it may be YOU who benefits, not them!

 

A "slap on the face?" Yes!

 

So what? Who cares?

Not one person one the planet was financially harmed by this bill, vague assertions that taxpayers are harmed mantras aside.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

I did here. There are couple of key words in his comments which are exactly the same as yours and don't give me the story about the monkey on a typewriter eventually writing the same words. It's clear you are paraphrasing talking points, having read them on some website.

You're confused. You quoted me, but were clearly addressing someone else. So every time you used the pronoun "you".......... you were saying things that had nothing to do with me.

 

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

22 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Not one person one the planet was financially harmed by this bill, vague assertions that taxpayers are harmed mantras aside.

Well, you're wrong about that. People ARE harmed when borrowed money doesn't get repaid. Always.

 

As a lender, they make their profit by recirculating  the money. When it doesn't come back, the profit cycle for that money stops cold.

 

That's HARM!

 

---------------

 

Picturing it as a retail store may be easier. Say a store sells a can of turpentine to a contractor on credit. Until there's another can of turpentine on the shelf to sell, the profit cycle for that product stops dead. If the contractor doesn't pay......... and the store cannot afford to buy more turpentine WITHOUT his payment.......... turpentine stops being a profit center for the store. Too much of that, and the store goes broke! That's HARM!

 

It works exactly the same way for lenders and money. When lenders don't get paid, that "product" ceases to be a tool they can use to generate revenue!

 

 

 

[placeholder]

51 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

This is gonna cost $300 BILLION, according to the Wharton Business School. 

 

If the government has that much cash to throw at education, how about spending it a bit more wisely? For example, means tested scholarships for students who want to learn trades (electrician, plumber, carpenter etc). Scholarships for STEM fields. 

 

But loan repayments for people who majored in Womyn's Victimization Studies or Botswanian Tapestry Weaving?  Give me a break. 

 

But I guess we know the answer. Those kinds of programmes won 't buy votes for the Democrats in the mid terms. 

That's 300 billion over the next ten years. On a yearly basis, that comes to about .08% of consumer spending. 

As for spending to support higher education, conservatives have consistently slashed that back. What makes you think they would support spending on training people to pursue a career in trades?

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Except that there are a few a huge problem with that calculation.  For one thing, it considers only the 1 percent. Not the 0.1% or the 0.01%.The IRS only counts income earned on assets when they are sold. Like stock shares. The thing is, that tax bill gave a big stimulus not to the economy but to the price of stock shares. So, what people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and the superwealthy do, is to borrow from a bank against those shares. That loan does not count as income so no taxes are paid on it. That's why people like Bezos or Musk can have years when they pay no income taxes at all. (What makes it even worse is that when these multibillionaires die, any potential capital gains tax is eliminated. The assets pass to the inheritors with a blank tax slate).

“It is a simple fact that billionaires in America can live very extraordinarily well completely tax-free off their wealth,” law professor Edward J. McCaffery writes.^[17] They can borrow large sums against their holdings (i.e., their unrealized capital gains) without generating “taxable” income. Larry Ellison, Oracle’s chief executive officer and one of the world’s richest people, pledged part of his Oracle stock as collateral for a $10 billion credit line.^[18

^{https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/propublica-shows-how-little-the-wealthiest-pay-in-taxes-policymakers-should}

America’s richest 400 families pay a lower tax rate than average taxpayer

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/23/americas-richest-400-families-pay-a-lower-tax-rate-than-average-taxpayer.html

 

Comparing tax RATE is a sleight of hand, a deception

 

When it comes time to pay the bill, you don't pay with rates and percentages, you pay with dollars.

 

When an extremely wealthy person or family is paying $40 million per year in taxes........... the equivalent (if I recall) of what roughly 10,000 "ordinary citizens" pay(!)............ there are 9,999 "ordinary citizens" who should be THANKING THEM for all the things their money pays for......... not griping about how "unfair" it is that they pay a lower "RATE!"

 

Regardless of "rates," they're paying 40 million bucks......... and you're not!

 

Sheesh!

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Comparing tax RATE is a sleight of hand, a deception

 

When it comes time to pay the bill, you don't pay with rates and percentages, you pay with dollars.

 

When an extremely wealthy person or family is paying $40 million per year in taxes........... the equivalent (if I recall) of what roughly 10,000 "ordinary citizens" pay(!)............ there are 9,999 "ordinary citizens" who should be THANKING THEM for all the things their money pays for......... not griping about how "unfair" it is that they pay a lower "RATE!"

 

Regardless of "rates," they're paying 40 million bucks......... and you're not!

 

Sheesh!

 

 

So where should my gratitude end?  If the wealthy pay 5 million? 1 million? 100 thousand?

Can you share with me your gratitude table so I can know at what level I should stop feeling grateful? 

 

Now, apparently, you think taxes are akin to charity. As though these wealthy people were making a voluntary donation. Now, maybe you know something I don't. Maybe the wealthy actually don't have to pay anything and whatever they contribute to the Federal Treasury is done out of the goodness of their hearts. If that's the case, gratitude would be very much in order. Is that the case?

 

Clearly, you have a problem with the logic behind a progressive tax system.

You also don't seem to understand how deleterious it is to the state of a nation when a small percentage of people own a hugely disproportionate share of the wealth. The last time this much wealth was concentrated in the hands of so few, was during the 1920's.

The tax policies that have helped them become so wealthy have contributed hugely to the hollowing out of the middle class. The last refuge of the middle class was savings realized from ownership of a home. Now hedge funds, flush with cash from the .1%. are buying homes and renting them out to middle class people. And given the sophistication of the AI programs they are undoubtedly using, they are able to squeeze the maximum amount out of them.  There goes middle Americans last refuge for retirement.

 

This same disporportionate distribution of wealth means that America no longer has a high degree of social mobility.

 

So, please, spare me the ridiculous lecture about gratitude. 

 

[placeholder]

52 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Well, you're wrong about that. People ARE harmed when borrowed money doesn't get repaid. Always.

 

As a lender, they make their profit by recirculating  the money. When it doesn't come back, the profit cycle for that money stops cold.

 

That's HARM!

 

---------------

 

Picturing it as a retail store may be easier. Say a store sells a can of turpentine to a contractor on credit. Until there's another can of turpentine on the shelf to sell, the profit cycle for that product stops dead. If the contractor doesn't pay......... and the store cannot afford to buy more turpentine WITHOUT his payment.......... turpentine stops being a profit center for the store. Too much of that, and the store goes broke! That's HARM!

 

It works exactly the same way for lenders and money. When lenders don't get paid, that "product" ceases to be a tool they can use to generate revenue!

 

 

 

Got some exciting news for you. 92% of student loans are held by the U.S. govt. 

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/student-loan-debt

[ozimoron]

Hannity - "This is New Green Deal radical socialism."

 

Gotta use "socialism", "green" and "radical" in the same sentence. Perfect. This is what passes as right wing debate these days, a string of epithets.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/sean-hannity-2657941541/

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Yes, the question is a fair one and deserves an answer.

 

Yes, it IS a "slap in the face" to all those who have honorably repaid their student loans, as agreed.

 

Yes, it IS a "slap on the face" of all those who worked to pay their own way, choosing to pay as they go, rather than putting themselves in debt.

 

But who cares? 

 

I think it's "unfair" that some people win the lottery, when I haven't.

 

I think it's "unfair" that some people are 6ft 9 and can get a professional basketball contract worth millions, that at 6ft 0, I could never get.

 

I think it's "unfair" that the US discontinued the draft AFTER millions of boys had already been drafted; many of whom had already been killed or injured......... even though I benefited from that personally. (18 in 1975!)

 

I think it's "unfair" that they developed a vaccine for chicken pox AFTER I had already had it, and my first wife had had it FOUR TIMES!

 

But who cares?

 

Yes, it IS a "slap in the face" to those who might have benefited from it.......... if they'd only known, beforehand, that a certain kind of dishonor......... was going to be rewarded! (Because there are ALWAYS people who will choose dishonor for personal gain!)

 

But I say "Who Cares?" because....... ultimately........ it's the wrong question!

 

Ultimately, the right question is..........

 

Is the fact that some people will feel "slapped"......... a reason to NOT  do this thing that we CAN do----a thing that may, in fact, be very beneficial to millions?

 

Seriously, is that really a good enough reason?

 

The simple fact is, every decision the government makes........... helps some people and harms others. Every one! That's the simple reality. So the goal ultimately can never be to harm no one, because that's not possible.

 

The goal, ultimately, can only be to help as many people as possible......... while harming as few as possible!

 

And in this case......... as much as I hate the idea, personally.......... I realize the only effective "harm" being done is to hurt some people's feelings........

 

I guess I can live with that! 

 

So yes, some people are going to feel "slapped in the face" by this! Some will!

 

But who cares?

 

Because as the saying goes, "Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you!" So deal with it; move on! Next time, it may be YOU who benefits, not them!

 

A "slap on the face?" Yes!

 

So what? Who cares?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously you don't.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Got some exciting news for you. 92% of student loans are held by the U.S. govt. 

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/student-loan-debt

That's OK as long as the gov doesn't expect any student to pay off any debt ever again.

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Hannity - "This is New Green Deal radical socialism."

 

Gotta use "socialism", "green" and "radical" in the same sentence. Perfect. This is what passes as right wing debate these days, a string of epithets.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/sean-hannity-2657941541/

How's about just SGR then? 

[ozimoron]

Just now, nauseus said:

How's about just SGR then? 

Doesn't have enough letters, maybe just add L for leftist?

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Doesn't have enough letters, maybe just add L for leftist?

How about PL?

[EVENKEEL]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11145541/More-Dems-turn-AGAINST-Bidens-student-loan-relief-plan-projected-cost-Americans-500B.html

Maine Rep. Jared Golden called the move 'out of touch' 

Comes as a new estimate claims American taxpayers will pay between $400 - $600 billion over the next decade to pay for the relief