Justice Department makes redacted Mar-a-Lago affidavit public

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

I have read the motion (well, the most important parts). It shows that, despite allegations from MAGA folks, everything has been cross-checked by expert lawyers and the procedure must be flawless. 

Exactly,  you don’t make a filing this strong, bold, and factually accusatory if you don’t have every intention to press charges. 

 

Trump and his lawyers have only themselves to blame for this with their motion for a special master, giving the DOJ a chance to respond with the facts.

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Exactly,  you don’t make a filing this strong, bold, and factually accusatory if you don’t have every intention to press charges. 

 

Trump and his lawyers have only themselves to blame for this with their motion for a special master, giving the DOJ a chance to respond with the facts.

In my view, and again it is my view, the DOJ had a feeling based upon exchanges of words between camps that Trump would try the special master angle, and so they were strongly prepared to slam him and his lawyers hard, which this filing does.

[candide]

How I like conservative media sometimes!

 

"Still, those on the Right who say it's "only documents" show a juvenile understanding of the national security world. "Only documents?" Well, the Soviet Union ran spies in our midst and obtained "only" documents that allowed them to build an atomic bomb. The "only documents" crowd should probably take a knee now; theirs is a ridiculous retort. In the intelligence business, obtaining documents from an adversary is actually the apex of a collection operation."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/courage-strength-optimism/mar-a-lago-and-why-intelligence-agents-matter-to-america

[candide]

More than ever! ????

 

"Former New Jersey Gov. Christine Todd Whitman, Donald B. Ayer, Gregory A. Brower, John J. Farmer Jr., Stuart M. Gerson, Peter D. Keisler, William F. Weld – who all served in Republican administrations – called Trump’s request a "waste of time."

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fbi-raid-ex-nj-gov-whitman-other-former-prosecutors-call-request-special-master-waste-time

[Bkk Brian]

Here is a declaration Trumps lawyer Alina Habba made in May where she confirmed there were no documents left at Mar-a-Lago. Its a pretty clear and detailed declaration and leaves no room for doubt that as far as she's concerned everything had already been handed over.

 

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=jurj2ITrDTrAJW/JpaeMsg==&system=prod

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Here is a declaration Trumps lawyer Alina Habba made in May where she confirmed there were no documents left at Mar-a-Lago. Its a pretty clear and detailed declaration and leaves no room for doubt that as far as she's concerned everything had already been handed over.

 

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=jurj2ITrDTrAJW/JpaeMsg==&system=prod

This either means the lawyer was lying or the Donald had all of the documents marked TS Classified in a location known only to him, and will now be used as a defense that they had complied and the FBI placed said documents back into the residence.....This is what the MAGA and Trumpster crowd will be along to say shortly.  Of course we know this is BS because of the video taken of the search and Trumps own personal recording devices from inside his residence....

[DezLez]

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Here is a declaration Trumps lawyer Alina Habba made in May where she confirmed there were no documents left at Mar-a-Lago.

This was not in connection with the Classified documents search  

• That was for documents sought by NY Attorney General Letitia James in her civil investigation into the Trump Organization's financial dealings.

 

Trump lawyer told New York AG she searched Mar-a-Lago for documents - six days before DOJ subpoena | Daily Mail Online

Edited September 1, 2022 by DezLez
Link added

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, DezLez said:

This was not in connection with the Classified documents search  

• That was for documents sought by NY Attorney General Letitia James in her civil investigation into the Trump Organization's financial dealings.

 

Trump lawyer told New York AG she searched Mar-a-Lago for documents - six days before DOJ subpoena | Daily Mail Online

Yes thanks for the clarification, from your link:

 

"Though the investigations are separate, the revelation that Alina Habba performed a 'diligent' search of Trump's office raises new questions about the level of exposure other people had to top secret government files that the ex-president was keeping at his Florida home.

 

Another of the former president's attorneys signed a statement in June asserting that no classified documents were left on the property following a visit from Justice Department investigators. 

 

That was undercut during the raid on August 8, when officials say FBI agents retrieved double the number of classified documents they were given during the June meeting."

[DezLez]

32 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

"Though the investigations are separate, the revelation that Alina Habba performed a 'diligent' search of Trump's office raises new questions about the level of exposure other people had to top secret government files that the ex-president was keeping at his Florida home.

I only put the link in for "clarification".  I was not trying to deflect, just to stop others!

 

The quote above, to me, is one of the most damming bits about the whole sorry saga!

It may not prove that the classifed documents were/were not there as she was not looking for classified documents it does prove that others had access to his inner sanctums!

 

[DezLez]

51 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

This either means the lawyer was lying or the Donald had all of the documents marked TS Classified in a location known only to him, and will now be used as a defense that they had complied and the FBI placed said documents back into the residence

Since she was only searching for financial documents and this was six days before the raid on MAL, there would be no reason for her to make any comment regarding any other documents and I suspect wrong for her to do so!

[ThailandRyan]

2 hours ago, DezLez said:

Since she was only searching for financial documents and this was six days before the raid on MAL, there would be no reason for her to make any comment regarding any other documents and I suspect wrong for her to do so!

Yet the hits keep coming.

 

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/08/31/politics/christina-bobb-evan-corcoran/index.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16620093306887&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2022%2F08%2F31%2Fpolitics%2Fchristina-bobb-evan-corcoran%2Findex.html

 

The FBI's search on August 8 uncovering scores of classified material "cast serious doubt" on the sworn statement one of Trump's lawyers made in June attesting that all classified material had been returned and a "diligent search" had been conducted, the Justice Department wrote.

Trump weighs delaying 2024 decision as political and legal troubles grow

Trump's attorney Christina Bobb was the individual who signed the June 3 letter attesting that all materials requested by the subpoena issued to Trump had been turned over to the Justice Department, two sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

[DezLez]

8 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The FBI's search on August 8 uncovering scores of classified material "cast serious doubt" on the sworn statement one of Trump's lawyers made in June attesting that all classified material had been returned and a "diligent search" had been conducted, the Justice

It is certainly getting worse for the orange one!

His MAGAManiac "supporters" seem to have gone very quiet recently, thank goodness!

 

Is there any way Trump can try and wriggle out of this by saying he knew nothing about, or was responsible in any way, for his lawyers "false" declaration(s)?

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, DezLez said:

It is certainly getting worse for the orange one!

His MAGAManiac "supporters" seem to have gone very quiet recently, thank goodness!

 

Is there any way Trump can try and wriggle out of this by saying he knew nothing about, or was responsible in any way, for his lawyers "false" declaration(s)?

No, his lawyer was legally required to inform him of her declaration.

[Eric Loh]

3 classified documents were found inside Trump's desk. I guess with his Tit-tac mint and diet coke. Like finding the murder weapon in the criminal's desk. Laugh a minute stuff. 

 

businessinsider.com/fbi-three-classified-documents-trump-desks-mar-a-lago-doj-2022-8

[DezLez]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No, his lawyer was legally required to inform him of her declaration.

Good to know but knowing Trump can he deny he was told or does he have to sign something?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, DezLez said:

Good to know but knowing Trump can he deny he was told or does he have to sign something?

If he did, his lawyer would be charged with making a false statement to the FBI and Trump would be a subject witness under oath, meaning he could be charged with perjury depending on his testimony.

Edited September 1, 2022 by ozimoron

[placeholder]

 

There's a terrific article from Andrew McCarthy who was a Federal Prosecutor and very right wing in his political orientation. He was vociferously opposed to Trump's impeachment trials. But as he notes in the article, it should be a slam-dunk to convict Trump of obstruction of justice. Here are few excerpts (but it's worth reading the whole thing to see how precarious Trump's legal position is):

 

"Moreover, we already knew that after Wall’s letter there followed (a) an initial grand-jury subpoena for classified documents, served on May 11; (b) a meeting at Mar-a-Lago on June 3, which, contrary to Trump’s public depiction of an amicable negotiation session between his lawyers and DOJ officials (into which Trump himself popped in), was actually compliance — or as it turned out, non-compliance — with a grand-jury subpoena in an active criminal investigation; and (c) a second grand-jury subpoena, served on June 22, for Mar-a-Lago surveillance video.  These events dovetailed with the FBI’s interviews of Mar-a-Lago employees and Trump’s post-presidency staffers, as well as the bureau’s review of the surveillance video...

 

Consequently, even without the new submission, we already knew that the Justice Department believed the unprecedented execution of a court-authorized search warrant at the home of a former American president was fully justified because: (a) the government had exhausted other options, after not just 18 months of trying to reason with Trump but, especially, his flouting of a grand-jury subpoena (i.e., even though he knew things had been elevated to a criminal investigation, he nevertheless engaged in conduct punishable by imprisonment); (b) there was a high likelihood that Trump was continuing to direct the movement, concealment, and perhaps destruction of classified documents which, as the Trump camp’s June 3 machinations showed, the former president had no intention of surrendering to the government; and (c) there was a vital need for U.S. intelligence agencies to re-acquire any highly classified intelligence that had been mishandled (and was still being mishandled), in order to assess the damage that mishandling had done to national security."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/why-yesterdays-doj-filing-suggests-a-trump-indictment-is-coming/

 

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

There's a terrific article from Andrew McCarthy who was a Federal Prosecutor and very right wing in his political orientation. He was vociferously opposed to Trump's impeachment trials. But as he notes in the article, it should be a slam-dunk to convict Trump of obstruction of justice. Here are few excerpts (but it's worth reading the whole thing to see how precarious Trump's legal position is):

 

"Moreover, we already knew that after Wall’s letter there followed (a) an initial grand-jury subpoena for classified documents, served on May 11; (b) a meeting at Mar-a-Lago on June 3, which, contrary to Trump’s public depiction of an amicable negotiation session between his lawyers and DOJ officials (into which Trump himself popped in), was actually compliance — or as it turned out, non-compliance — with a grand-jury subpoena in an active criminal investigation; and (c) a second grand-jury subpoena, served on June 22, for Mar-a-Lago surveillance video.  These events dovetailed with the FBI’s interviews of Mar-a-Lago employees and Trump’s post-presidency staffers, as well as the bureau’s review of the surveillance video...

 

Consequently, even without the new submission, we already knew that the Justice Department believed the unprecedented execution of a court-authorized search warrant at the home of a former American president was fully justified because: (a) the government had exhausted other options, after not just 18 months of trying to reason with Trump but, especially, his flouting of a grand-jury subpoena (i.e., even though he knew things had been elevated to a criminal investigation, he nevertheless engaged in conduct punishable by imprisonment); (b) there was a high likelihood that Trump was continuing to direct the movement, concealment, and perhaps destruction of classified documents which, as the Trump camp’s June 3 machinations showed, the former president had no intention of surrendering to the government; and (c) there was a vital need for U.S. intelligence agencies to re-acquire any highly classified intelligence that had been mishandled (and was still being mishandled), in order to assess the damage that mishandling had done to national security."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/why-yesterdays-doj-filing-suggests-a-trump-indictment-is-coming/

 

It does appear that the former POTUS is about to become a game show contestant on "lets make a deal"

[Eric Loh]

46 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No, his lawyer was legally required to inform him of her declaration.

Let's hope that his lawyer/s have a tape or witness that capture that moment when she drafted the declaration with the presence of Trump. Otherwise she will be in for a whole lot of legal hurt and made a scapegoat. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Let's hope that his lawyer/s have a tape or witness that capture that moment when she drafted the declaration with the presence of Trump. Otherwise she will be in for a whole lot of legal hurt and made a scapegoat. 

Maybe she'll end up being a very good witness for the prosecution?

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Maybe she'll end up being a very good witness for the prosecution?

Not if they're accusing her of making a false statement. Ultimately a jury will determine which one is telling the truth if Trump denies he knew.

[Gecko123]

It just dawned on me what he was probably planning on doing with all that top secret intelligence:

 

leverage it for help in 2024, i.e., getting foreign governments to provide financial support, opposition research, and disinformation and hacking operations similar to what was done in 2016 and 2020.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Gecko123

[Bkk Brian]

The DOJ filing on 8/30/22 attached the grand jury’s May 2022 subpoena. It sought S/FRD documents. That refers to nuclear research that had been turned to military use. And that’s just one example of how deadly this breach by Trump has been.

 

So many strands possible in this mess to untangle, you've got the "Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman bragged of receiving classified US intelligence from Jared Kushner and using it as part of a purge of 'corrupt' princes and businessmen, DailyMail.com can disclose."

 

Then Jared pops up again with this $2 billion from Saudi Arabia six months after his father-in-law, Donald Trump, left the White House.

[candide]

Maybe more to be found!

 

Michael Cohen believes Trump is likely keeping copies of top-secret documents at his children's homes, Bedminster, and Trump Tower

 

I also noticed this:

"He later weighed in on how Trump was likely nervous about a potential mole at Mar-a-Lago and said he would not be surprised if one of Trump's children or his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, was an FBI informant." ????????????????

 

https://news.yahoo.com/michael-cohen-believes-trump-likely-043613110.html

[johnnybangkok]

11 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

It just dawned on me what he was probably planning on doing with all that top secret intelligence:

 

leverage it for help in 2024, i.e., getting foreign governments to provide financial support, opposition research, and disinformation and hacking operations similar to what was done in 2016 and 2020.

It’s a Legitimate question but I honestly believe it’s just not that sophisticated. You have definitely got to question the stupidity of someone who not only should know the law but actually lengthened the penalty for exactly what he is doing. That’s just top drawer shoot yourself in the foot. 
However, I just keep coming back to how self absorbed he is and how he probably didn’t think it applied to him. We would all like to think there’s some genius behind the madness but it’s really just madness. “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Joseph Goebbels.
But the good news is there’s a lot of people who also see the madness and how history has shown how wrong this thinking is. It’s galvanizes people. It makes them aware. There’s no better forced awareness than Trump. Even the ardent Trumpers on here have slowly but surely dropped away. It’s super hard to justify Trump these days. I mean we can only get to page 6 before they gave up.  
Anyway, fight the good fight guys. Dont let the bar stewards get you down. 
 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

It’s a Legitimate question but I honestly believe it’s just not that sophisticated. You have definitely got to question the stupidity of someone who not only should know the law but actually lengthened the penalty for exactly what he is doing. That’s just top drawer shoot yourself in the foot. 
However, I just keep coming back to how self absorbed he is and how he probably didn’t think it applied to him. We would all like to think there’s some genius behind the madness but it’s really just madness. “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Joseph Goebbels.
But the good news is there’s a lot of people who also see the madness and how history has shown how wrong this thinking is. It’s galvanizes people. It makes them aware. There’s no better forced awareness than Trump. Even the ardent Trumpers on here have slowly but surely dropped away. It’s super hard to justify Trump these days. I mean we can only get to page 6 before they gave up.  
Anyway, fight the good fight guys. Dont let the bar stewards get you down. 
 

I agree. The simplest explanation and the only one that makes sense is that he is just that stupid. I have difficulty accepting that he has a cogent, thought out plan for those documents, other then stashing evidence that may be used against him.

Edited September 1, 2022 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

Oversight Committee reaches agreement to obtain Trump financial records

 

The House Oversight and Reform Committee on Thursday reached an agreement to obtain former President Trump’s financial records, Chairwoman Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.) announced.

 

The agreement would end a years-long legal battle to obtain Trump’s financial records and require his accounting firm Mazars USA to turn the documents over to the committee.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/3624217-oversight-committee-reaches-agreement-to-obtain-trump-financial-records/

[johnnybangkok]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I agree. The simplest explanation and the only one that makes sense is that he is just that stupid. I have difficulty accepting that he has a cogent, thought out plan for those documents, other then stashing evidence that may be used against him.

Exactly. There’s no “big plan” there’s no advanced thinking. There’s just surviving. 
Great Presidents inspire. They perpetuate a collective good that will always be the majority. Most people are good and just want to do the right thing. That’s hopefully why whannabe dictators like Trump will lose BUT, you need to get dirty with gangsters. They don’t understand “doing the right thing “. You need to get medieval on their ass. You have to make them understand that the law is the bedrock of your nation. And no one is higher than the law. Find the crime and then take a very large book and drop it from about 70 foot. 
 

[johnnybangkok]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Oversight Committee reaches agreement to obtain Trump financial records

 

The House Oversight and Reform Committee on Thursday reached an agreement to obtain former President Trump’s financial records, Chairwoman Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.) announced.

 

The agreement would end a years-long legal battle to obtain Trump’s financial records and require his accounting firm Mazars USA to turn the documents over to the committee.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/3624217-oversight-committee-reaches-agreement-to-obtain-trump-financial-records/

Fantastic news. 

[bendejo]

12 hours ago, candide said:

Michael Cohen believes Trump is likely keeping copies of top-secret documents at his children's homes, Bedminster, and Trump Tower

I don't see any reason to believe he wouldn't have stashed some of these things at foreign properties.  Time for the Feds to link up with Scotland Yard for a raid on Turnberry.

 

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/buildings-real-estate-projects-outside-the-us-that-are-named-after-donald-trump.html