Right ear deafness

[Thomas KH]

First, thank you for this forum and for allowing me to join as a member.

 

Around the last week of July I woke up one morning with one ear deaf (the right ear). Not 100% deaf. I can still hear a weak muffled sound when I snap my fingers near the ear. My left ear is fully functional.

 

I went to an ENT doctor and he thinks it's a cochlear inflammation. No impacted earwax. He showed me a video of the ear canal and even my eardrum which was intact. I was prescribed corticosteriod pills which were of no help. It's nearly the end of August and I'm still deaf on my right ear. What bothers me most is this constant and nonstop high pitched ringing in the ear. It's 24/7 and I'm spared the torture only when I sleep. It's destroying me mentally. 

 

Does anyone know of any specialists in Bangkok for this condition?

 

Thank you in advance for any advice.

  

[actonion]

I have a similar problem that  also occured  overnight, but with both ears, .. the high pitched ringing is Tinnitus  which i have too,   but i seem to have it under control now ...with constant Vestibular Exercises

 

i have seen    Specialists  in the UK  & here at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital  ENT Dept.. they  have  Two specialists  that come from Bangkok one is an elderly lady Professor   70 +  who comes twice a week,  the other is a  lady in her 40's  who seems to come  when she has time, both of them have confirmed  my hearing  days are over  95%,..      having had  multiple  hearing and balance tests which are not cheap of course.....I'm  sure u will find  a  wider range of ENT doctors  at Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok

[Thomas KH]

13 minutes ago, actonion said:

I have a similar problem that  also occured  overnight, but with both ears, .. the high pitched ringing is Tinnitus  which i have too,   but i seem to have it under control now ...with constant Vestibular Exercises

 

i have seen    Specialists  in the UK  & here at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital  ENT Dept.. they  have  Two specialists  that come from Bangkok one is an elderly lady Professor   70 +  who comes twice a week,  the other is a  lady in her 40's  who seems to come  when she has time, both of them have confirmed  my hearing  days are over  95%,..      having had  multiple  hearing and balance tests which are not cheap of course.....I'm  sure u will find  a  wider range of ENT doctors  at Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok

 

Thank you. I will ask at Bumrungrad. I'm tempted to return to Germany to see a specialist but I'm hoping to avoid the trip if local help is available. At just 40 I hope this is not permanent deafness. I'd be devastated.

 

[actonion]

3 minutes ago, Thomas KH said:

 

Thank you. I will ask at Bumrungrad. I'm tempted to return to Germany to see a specialist but I'm hoping to avoid the trip if local help is available. At just 40 I hope this is not permanent deafness. I'd be devastated.

 

Good luck with that ..i have learned  so much about the workings of  the hearing system since my  problem started 3 years ago, small hairs in the eustachian tubes  that carry sound  to the cochlear have died in my case & cannot be reversed, loss of hearing can also interfere with your  balance too, so make sure u get it sorted

[retiree]

I also had sudden onset tinnitus, although not so severe and at a greater age.  Was given a short course of prednisone, which I think is standard, but did not work for me, which is also common. 

 

You will find a great deal about this online.  Klonopin (clonazepam) is sometimes prescribed; there is plenty of literature on this.  I was prescribed it, but didn't want to go down that path.  Good starting points (follow the citing works): 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25858126/ 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14763236/ 

 

Note that tinnitus is believed to be due to the fact that the ear is far more sensitive than we realize; hence people will experience tinnitus sound in perfectly silent soundproof rooms as the brain ramps up the ear's sensitivity, and tries to fill in expected ordinary background noise.  

 

A way to trick the brain into lessening this is to focus on an external sounds.   There are many online sites that generate ambient sound / noise of all types, e.g. 

https://noises.online/   or    https://mynoise.net/ 

You want something that's just complex and audible enough to grab your ear's attention.  I find that having a barely discernible wave sound play at night (small bluetooth speaker under a pillow, run from my phone) is very helpful for this.  

 

All this said, these methods are just for the symptoms.  Regular age-related tinnitus resulting from long-term ear damage doesn't seem to be curable, but given your youth (remember, this is Thai Visa), overnight onset, and the fact that it's just one side I'd continue to see medical advice if it were me. 

 

Good luck,

-- Retiree 

Edited August 30, 2022 by retiree

[Sheryl]

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/Chanida-Kanchanalarp

 

https://www.bnhhospital.com/search-doctor/entry/3924

 

(same doctor, different hospitals. She trained in Germany and I think speaks German). 

 

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/Saowaros-Patarapak

 

 

[Thomas KH]

They did some medical and audiology tests today and the Canada-trained Thai ENT says it is most likely permanent deafness. This came as a shock. One ear gone at 40. I might ask for a second opinion in Europe.

[retiree]

Very sorry to hear that.  I hope that you will find, as many do, that over time at least the tinnitus aspect can become a little less intrusive.  

-- Retiree 

[phetphet]

On 8/30/2022 at 10:24 AM, Thomas KH said:

 

Thank you. I will ask at Bumrungrad. I'm tempted to return to Germany to see a specialist but I'm hoping to avoid the trip if local help is available. At just 40 I hope this is not permanent deafness. I'd be devastated.

 

i knew someone that suffered with Tinnitus. He said that it sounded like a jet engine whooshing constantly in his ear, and almost drove him to suicide. He never cured it, but managed to learn to live with it thanks to specialist help.

Hopefully what you have is not that and can be cured.

[Thomas KH]

16 hours ago, phetphet said:

i knew someone that suffered with Tinnitus. He said that it sounded like a jet engine whooshing constantly in his ear, and almost drove him to suicide. He never cured it, but managed to learn to live with it thanks to specialist help.

Hopefully what you have is not that and can be cured.

Mine is a constant ringing but sometimes subsides to a less intrusive but still very irritating high pitched continuous tone. Regardless, it's always there and it takes immense effort to ignore it.

 

[degrub]

I’ve had it in both ears for almost all my life. You get used to it. Mine is like highly compressed crickets going full blast. I find that it varies in intensity depending on sleep, caffeine, food, exercise, but never entirely goes away.  
 

I think i remember reading about some sort of implant that helped from a few years back. Sorry, don’t have a reference.

 

hopefully, yours is just temporary and gets better over time. 

[Thomas KH]

1 hour ago, degrub said:

I’ve had it in both ears for almost all my life. You get used to it. Mine is like highly compressed crickets going full blast. I find that it varies in intensity depending on sleep, caffeine, food, exercise, but never entirely goes away.  
 

I think i remember reading about some sort of implant that helped from a few years back. Sorry, don’t have a reference.

 

hopefully, yours is just temporary and gets better over time. 

Thanks. 

Mine is more pronounced because my right ear is deaf. I also read about the cochlear implant and also something about a bone conduction device which I am reluctant to resort to. The CROS device perhaps (offered to me for 115k baht) but I will wait and see if this deafness is really permanent.

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Thomas KH

[AsianAtHeart]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner.  Because it occurred suddenly, overnight as you say, we can safely rule out the loss of the inner-ear hairs (which would be irreversible).  Those hairs would normally be lost with loud noises or over-stimulation, a little at a time.  And the hairs would have nothing to do with a continued "ringing."  The symptoms are entirely consistent with nerve-related issues.

 

You need to research into three possibilities:

 

1) The effect of B-12 deficiency on the nerves and hearing. 

 

2) The effects of toxins, like mercury, on those nerves.

 

3) The effects of an inner-ear infection which might be causing swelling and/or nerve damage.

 

Ask your doctor about these possibilities.  In the case of an infection, the doctor / otorhinolaryngologist should be able to identify this, possibly with a visual examination of the ear drum to check for color and inflammation.  An infection may be treatable with a proper course of antibiotics.  In my case, a doctor prescribed Augmentin for 14 days. 

 

B12 deficiency and the identification of toxins in the system will require more expensive testing.  Be aware that if B12 deficiency is the cause, if the condition is allowed to remain untreated for a prolonged period of time, the hearing loss may become permanent.  Because B12 is always safe, and many are deficient anyhow, I would recommend supplementing with this in any case--but if you are going to get a blood test to check your levels of B12, wait to start the supplements until after the blood draw, lest they skew the results.  Again, consulting a knowledgeable physician first would be a good idea.  He can then order the test if he is also concerned. 

 

A common CBC will have a line for MCV (mean cell volume, i.e. the average size of the red blood cells).  If the number for the MCV is higher than about 90, this can be indicative of B12 deficiency (and most doctors don't think of this--even though they know that B12 deficiency will cause enlarged RBCs).  So you can ask your doctor to have this common test done first--especially as the full test for B12 is less common and more expensive.  However, the MCV will not be a perfect indicator; it only gives a rough idea.

[Thomas KH]

52 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Ask your doctor about these possibilities.  In the case of an infection, the doctor / otorhinolaryngologist should be able to identify this, possibly with a visual examination of the ear drum to check for color and inflammation.  An infection may be treatable with a proper course of antibiotics.  In my case, a doctor prescribed Augmentin for 14 days. 

Thank you. I actually suspected this but when I mentioned this to the ENT, she quickly dismissed it, literally zipped my mouth. I have a feeling she really wants me to buy one of those Phonak CROS devices for 100k+ baht. She did check ear canal (clear, no impacted earwax) and the eardrum which is intact. She showed me a video of it. Looked nice and normal.  

 

About the Vitamin B12, thanks for this suggestion. I bought two bottles and will take them religiously.

 

 

 

[AsianAtHeart]

2 hours ago, Thomas KH said:

Thank you. I actually suspected this but when I mentioned this to the ENT, she quickly dismissed it, literally zipped my mouth. I have a feeling she really wants me to buy one of those Phonak CROS devices for 100k+ baht. She did check ear canal (clear, no impacted earwax) and the eardrum which is intact. She showed me a video of it. Looked nice and normal.  

 

About the Vitamin B12, thanks for this suggestion. I bought two bottles and will take them religiously.

 

 

 

Go ahead and take those--it's a good start...but I should have posted more in my prior post.  It's just so hard to tell you everything that is important all at once, and this forum makes it difficult to post medical advice in the first place, so I have to tell you to research these things for yourself.  Anyhow, here's the next thing to research.

 

Look up the differences between cyanocobalamin (what you bought), hydroxocobalamin (slightly better), methylcobalamin (much, much better), and adenosylcobalamin (probably unavailable).  You will probably find that studies have shown that cyanocobalamin, the cheapest and most widely available supplemental form of vitamin B12, is largely (98%) lost from the system within 24 hours of intake, regardless of whether administered via IV or orally.  I became anemic while taking cyanocobalamin shots once a week--as a young person on a totally vegan diet.  That was before doctors knew as much as we know now.  (And I haven't been vegan since.)  Even still, virtually all of the B12 on product labels as an enrichment product will be cyanocobalamin.  Most all of the B12 marketed today is still cyanocobalamin. 

 

Methylcobalamin, if you can find it, will be much more expensive, but well worth it.   The old adage applies: "You get what you pay for."  Methylcobalamin is already in a natural form that your body can use, whereas cyanocobalamin must be broken down by the liver into its component cyanide + cobalamin molecules.  But you don't need to take my word for it--the internet will be full of information from credible sources.

 

Vitamin B12 is the largest vitamin in our bodies--a very large molecule.  Taken by mouth, it requires something called "intrinsic factor" in the stomach before it can be absorbed in the upper intestine.  The intrinsic factor is essentially an enzyme injector that surrounds the cobalamin molecule and later "injects" it through the lining of the intestine, where, without the intrinsic factor, the small holes in the intestine would keep the B12 from passing through.  After the B12 has passed through, the intestine has to reclose that hole made by the intrinsic factor to prevent the admittance of bacteria.  That's how large the B12 is.  Even meat-eaters can become deficient in B12 if they have inadequate production of intrinsic factor, which tends to happen with age.  And because intrinsic factor is only produced a little at a time, taking a horse pill of B12 will do no good because only as much as there is intrinsic factor for can possibly be absorbed.  So, with B12, it is important to have a regular, steady source, and it can take some time to make up for a deficiency.  When one is deficient and begins taking the B12, the effect may become noticeable in about two to three months.  Some may notice feeling more energetic almost right away; for others it will take much longer.

 

Taking B12 by IM injection is much better because it gets the B12 into the system without dependence on intrinsic factor.  It is possible to inject a thousand times or more B12 than could be absorbed through the stomach.  If you can get a diagnosis of B12 deficiency, your doctor may be able to order injections for you.

 

Believe it or not, many doctors do not even know all of this that I have just shared.  They don't study about diet or foods in medical school--they study about anatomy/physiology, diseases, and drugs.  Doctors in Laos did not even seem to know that a vegan diet will not provide vitamin B12, and a friend of mine nearly died of B12 deficiency in the hospital there.  "Oh no, a vegan diet, rich in vegetables, will provide all the vitamins you need"--the doctor had said (in Lao).  Ha!  How does one tell a doctor that his ignorance is showing?

[Sheryl]

If you have not yet started the B12 it would be advantageous to get blood level first, simple blood test and any lab can do it. Note that B12 deficiency while common in older people is less so at your age (40) unless you are vegetarian.  Not impossible, but less likely.

 

Given your young age and the sudden onset of hearing loss , it is worth getting a second opinion.

 

 

[rattlesnake]

Tinnitus is also a side-effect of Covid vaccination, so this could be the cause if you've had the Covid shot (I'm not saying it is, just giving you the information). The second article I am posting mentions positive results with transcranial magnetic stimulation. I hope you will get better.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8788157/

 

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220523/Pfizer-COVID-19-vaccine-associated-tinnitus-responds-to-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation.aspx

[Thomas KH]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

If you have not yet started the B12 it would be advantageous to get blood level first, simple blood test and any lab can do it. Note that B12 deficiency while common in older people is less so at your age (40) unless you are vegetarian.  Not impossible, but less likely.

 

Given you young age and the sudden onset of hearing loss , it is worth getting a second opinion.

 

 

 

Thank you very much, Sheryl. I will have a blood test done on Monday. Is there a specific test to check for B12 deficiency? I ask as I had one done before but it was for a total cholesterol test.

 

Yes, I am vegetarian.  

 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Thomas KH said:

 

Thank you very much, Sheryl. I will have a blood test done on Monday. Is there a specific test to check for B12 deficiency? I ask as I had one done before but it was for a total cholesterol test.

 

Yes, I am vegetarian.  

 

Ah, well being vegetarian you may well be B12 defecient even if it is not the cause of your hearing issues.

 

The test is called serum Cobalamin but often just listed as B12. Totally different from cholesterol tests. Any lab can do it and you do not need to fast first. But if you have already started taking the supplement this will throw the results off

[retiree]

8 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Tinnitus is also a side-effect of Covid vaccination,

From the first study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8788157/).  Emphasis mine: 

To date, 5.5 billion vaccine doses have been administered [1] ... 

Ultimately, two studies [13,14] (case report and case series) were retrieved for inclusion in the review. The studies comprised data from four patients (three males and one female) 

Three of the patients received essentially the same treatment as the OP -- two recovered, and two are "recovering" (see Table 1).   

 

The only study they cite in support of a "statistically significant" connection (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8267343/) says:

But, given the low level of evidence (i.e., studies with no control group), weakness in data collection (i.e., using self-reports and/or medical records), and high heterogeneity among studies reviewed, these results should be interpreted with caution. 

("high heterogeneity" here means they're different sorts of studies, so results can't be readily combined) 

 

From the second article, there's just one patient -- who had tinnitus before she was vaccinated (emphasis mine): 

In the current study, a woman ... first experienced bilateral tinnitus in 2020, it remained stable thereafter. ...

The THI also decreased to 12 by the end of September 2021.  About a month later, the patient received her first dose of the vaccine and the second dose one month after.

("THI" is a measure of severity)   

 

Point is that publications are often quite limited in their evidence and conclusions, but are also very forthcoming about these limitations, and worth reading all the way through.  

-- Retiree 

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, retiree said:

From the first study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8788157/).  Emphasis mine: 

To date, 5.5 billion vaccine doses have been administered [1] ... 

Ultimately, two studies [13,14] (case report and case series) were retrieved for inclusion in the review. The studies comprised data from four patients (three males and one female) 

Three of the patients received essentially the same treatment as the OP -- two recovered, and two are "recovering" (see Table 1).   

 

The only study they cite in support of a "statistically significant" connection (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8267343/) says:

But, given the low level of evidence (i.e., studies with no control group), weakness in data collection (i.e., using self-reports and/or medical records), and high heterogeneity among studies reviewed, these results should be interpreted with caution. 

("high heterogeneity" here means they're different sorts of studies, so results can't be readily combined) 

 

From the second article, there's just one patient -- who had tinnitus before she was vaccinated (emphasis mine): 

In the current study, a woman ... first experienced bilateral tinnitus in 2020, it remained stable thereafter. ...

The THI also decreased to 12 by the end of September 2021.  About a month later, the patient received her first dose of the vaccine and the second dose one month after.

("THI" is a measure of severity)   

 

Point is that publications are often quite limited in their evidence and conclusions, but are also very forthcoming about these limitations, and worth reading all the way through.  

-- Retiree 

Just letting the OP know it could be that. There are other articles out there about the issue and if he thinks there could be a causation then he can dig into it.

[CanNot]

+1 for https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/Saowaros-Patarapak

 

She takes time to explain things, is empathic and I always felt well treated.

[AsianAtHeart]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

But if you have already started taking the supplement this will throw the results off

Yes.  This is why I specified in my first post to get the test done first if you wanted to get tested.

 

It's an added expense, but may be well worth getting tested at the same time for homocysteine levels.  The fact is that the lab will tell you that your B12 is "in range" for a rather wide range...something like 250 up to 900?  (I don't remember exactly--would have to look it up.)  The problem is that if your homocysteine is elevated, it shows that even if you are reportedly within the "normal" range for B12, you actually need much more of it.

 

Again, this is better discussed with a qualified physician who knows and understands the relationship between vitamin B12 levels and homocysteine levels.  Not every doctor does.  You can find some information about the relationship between these by searching online.  You will find a lot of information about homocysteine in general.  That's another worthwhile line of research.

 

NOTE: The homocysteine test won't be so quickly affected by having started the B12 supplements, so it should still give some good results, and may help to provide a "check" for the B12 results.

 

I am also a vegetarian--but I consume some dairy products (yogurt and eggs, mostly), largely for their B12.  Eggs, however, also are high in sulfur which helps to eliminate/counteract toxins.  The highest sulfur-containing food in a purely vegan diet will be garlic, which has only 1/8 as much as the same serving size of egg--and who sits down to eat a plate of garlic?  In Thailand, rice and even the water can have elevated levels of arsenic, and the sulfur is helpful to eliminate this.   There will be a lower percentage of arsenic in white rice than in brown rice, so there is some advantage here, beyond shelf life, for the polished rice.

 

Arsenic is also a possible factor in the hearing issues, though I would suspect mercury ahead of the arsenic.

[scubascuba3]

11 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Yes.  This is why I specified in my first post to get the test done first if you wanted to get tested.

 

It's an added expense, but may be well worth getting tested at the same time for homocysteine levels.  The fact is that the lab will tell you that your B12 is "in range" for a rather wide range...something like 250 up to 900?  (I don't remember exactly--would have to look it up.)  The problem is that if your homocysteine is elevated, it shows that even if you are reportedly within the "normal" range for B12, you actually need much more of it.

 

Again, this is better discussed with a qualified physician who knows and understands the relationship between vitamin B12 levels and homocysteine levels.  Not every doctor does.  You can find some information about the relationship between these by searching online.  You will find a lot of information about homocysteine in general.  That's another worthwhile line of research.

 

NOTE: The homocysteine test won't be so quickly affected by having started the B12 supplements, so it should still give some good results, and may help to provide a "check" for the B12 results.

 

I am also a vegetarian--but I consume some dairy products (yogurt and eggs, mostly), largely for their B12.  Eggs, however, also are high in sulfur which helps to eliminate/counteract toxins.  The highest sulfur-containing food in a purely vegan diet will be garlic, which has only 1/8 as much as the same serving size of egg--and who sits down to eat a plate of garlic?  In Thailand, rice and even the water can have elevated levels of arsenic, and the sulfur is helpful to eliminate this.   There will be a lower percentage of arsenic in white rice than in brown rice, so there is some advantage here, beyond shelf life, for the polished rice.

 

Arsenic is also a possible factor in the hearing issues, though I would suspect mercury ahead of the arsenic.

Do you clean your ears out? or leave well alone? i know people say don't use cotton buds, fair enough, but i use a ear camera thing so can be much more precise

[AsianAtHeart]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Do you clean your ears out? or leave well alone? i know people say don't use cotton buds, fair enough, but i use a ear camera thing so can be much more precise

I, personally, use my fingers as far as they can fit.  Certainly, they do not reach the ear drum.  I almost never touch a Q-tip--can't even remember the last time I used one in my ears.

 

I don't believe that I have very much buildup though, and some people might have a bit more.

 

I do put tissue in my ears on rare occasions--not to clean them, but to dampen loud sounds.  I have sensitive hearing, and some places where speakers and microphones are in use have the decibels ramped up so high that my ears actually hurt--and most others seem to be fine with it.  In times like those, a little extra wax might be helpful!

[BritManToo]

On 8/30/2022 at 9:41 AM, Thomas KH said:

Around the last week of July I woke up one morning with one ear deaf (the right ear). Not 100% deaf. I can still hear a weak muffled sound when I snap my fingers near the ear. My left ear is fully functional.

Happened to me a year or so back.

It was COVID filling up my ear between eardrum and nose with mucus.

Cleared itself after a couple of weeks, came and went for another week or two after that.

Edited September 5, 2022 by BritManToo

[Thomas KH]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Happened o me a year or so back.

It was COVID filling up my ear between eardrum and nose with mucus.

Cleared itself after a couple of weeks, came and went for another week or two after that.

Oh no... i just had a blood test and i'm now going to have a COVID test done to rule this out.

 

[norbra]

A few years ago while I was in Australia I was having hearing problems I visited 2 doctors and both declared my ears were clear of obstructions and there was no wax visible.

Looked for home remedies and used 2 drops of hydrogen peroxide in the ear and with a cotton bud used a small pumping action to stir the liquid and it disolved some hidden wax and I could hear clearly again. Now use same method every couple of months.