Solar cells on the roof?

[Misab]

To make solar cells installation legal, I have been told it is bureaucracy going beyond all borders.  Some people say: Forget it, Thailand is not interested in people with normal houses there want to install solar cells on the roof. Is it true?   I would think that Thailand would welcome all people there want to help fight Climate Change.

How difficult is it to get permission to make legal solar cells on your roof ?   Who do you contact?

If you choose on grid, can you sell what you don’t use. Is it possible?  If yes, will there be a contract between me and the electricity company?  What do they pay per kwh?

 

Please I’m not interested in stupid comments from a lot of people, there do not know what they are talking about. I’m looking for information only from people with experience on the matter.

 

[bluejets]

As far as I am aware, Thailand does not have any feedback payment which is why it is probably best to store your own excess.

That can be expensive when you start talking battery banks.

Not so much if you use say, storage how water system.

 

I think if Thailand government were to start supporting individuals solar, (as many countries do) it would start a call for government to subsidise any installs, something you can bet they will be trying to avoid. 

 

As far as experts only commenting, most would consider they are so your comment there would roll off like water on a duck's back.???? What you must remember, this is an open forum and anyone feeling they have something to contribute should be supported, not isolated because of your particular set of rules.

[AsianAtHeart]

You will want to read through an entire thread on this topic by Thaifish who setup his own on-grid system here in Thailand.

 

@Crossy will also have some helpful advice on this subject.

[Bandersnatch]

My experience in Surin from a few years ago may not be relevant to you.

 

I asked at Surin PEA head office if permission was required. I said I didn’t want to join the rooftop solar program, at the time the feed-in credit was only ฿1.68 with a 5kW max for your system if you had single phase electric. I was told no permission was required.

 

After it was installed I visited again to ask if it needed inspecting. There was a new guy there who said my system was illegal as it was over 10kW. I later found out that he was referring to the 10kW max for feed in on a three phase system and he knew nothing about solar. 
 

A team from Korat came down to confirm that my off-grid inverter could not feed back to the grid. 
 

since then  I have had my meter changed 5 times as new meter readers see it has not moved and reported it as broken. 
 

PEA offices seem to have different understanding and interpretations of the rules.

 

The feed in credit is now ฿2.2 per kWh and your equipment needs to be on the approved list.

 

I am not an expert on FIT as I self consume  - my solar system powers my house and EV 99%

 

Probably not up to date:

 

https://solar-thailand.com/pdf/PEA.pdf

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

Our system (8kW Hibrid Deye inverter) is not a PEA 'approved' inverter:

Deye 5kW for 1 phase

Deye 10kW for 3 phase

 

PEA does know we have solar, but apparently don't care, since no inspection or comments from them.

 

Our installer said our local PEA office is quite friendly vs the Hua Hin office.  He's registered many 5kW systems with both.  Didn't ask about feed back or payment for, as I really don't want anything to do with PEA, except to use as a back up, JIC our solar has an oops.

 

We're completely self energized, and rarely draw from the grid, and don't need it.  If they ever start paying for feed in to the grid, and worth converting to two 5kW inverters, we may consider it, as would be a very easy conversion, since having two strings of 9 panels, and soon, this or next week, a 2nd ESS.

 

Hindsight, should of went that route at the get go, but apparently not that forward thinking that day.  It did cross my mind before installed ... oops.

 

If we did get paid for feed in to the grid, it would be about ฿1 to 3+k a month, as we generate 2-3 to sometimes 5X as much as we use, depending on overcast vs sunny (few lately) days.  So wouldn't mind an extra ฿2k+ ish a month, making ROI time a bit shorter, along with a few beers on PEA's tab ????

[Misab]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Our system (8kW Hibrid Deye inverter) is not a PEA 'approved' inverter:

Deye 5kW for 1 phase

Deye 10kW for 3 phase

 

PEA does know we have solar, but apparently don't care, since no inspection or comments from them.

 

Our installer said our local PEA office is quite friendly vs the Hua Hin office.  He's registered many 5kW systems with both.  Didn't ask about feed back or payment for, as I really don't want anything to do with PEA, except to use as a back up, JIC our solar has an oops.

 

We're completely self energized, and rarely draw from the grid, and don't need it.  If they ever start paying for feed in to the grid, and worth converting to two 5kW inverters, we may consider it, as would be a very easy conversion, since having two strings of 9 panels, and soon, this or next week, a 2nd ESS.

 

Hindsight, should of went that route at the get go, but apparently not that forward thinking that day.  It did cross my mind before installed ... oops.

 

If we did get paid for feed in to the grid, it would be about ฿1 to 3+k a month, as we generate 2-3 to sometimes 5X as much as we use, depending on overcast vs sunny (few lately) days.  So wouldn't mind an extra ฿2k+ ish a month, making ROI time a bit shorter, along with a few beers on PEA's tab ????

 

[Misab]

Thank you all for your comments, they are really appreciated and a great help. Some of you talked about PEA which made me search on the internet. For those of you there are interested in updated rules. I found this:

https://www.kunini.com/solar-rooftop-update/

 

 

[Thaifish]

13 hours ago, Misab said:

How difficult is it to get permission to make legal solar cells on your roof ?   Who do you contact?

If you choose on grid, can you sell what you don’t use. Is it possible?

To install legally on your roof it is not hard as long as the Inverter is one of the approved type by PEA. There is a list of approved inverters. I don't have a link to the approved inverters at the moment which you can find online.... If nobody else supplies a link in the next few if i remember I will post. You do not have to contact anyone. You are simply covering your a@se as long as the inverter is of an approved PEA type that does not export power during a power loss so you do not fry some worker down the road trying to repair a fault. I have had no luck having a meter installed that I can legit sell back to the grid my excess solar. Have been chasing a white elephant for the last couple of years trying to get one installed. If you are remote Thailand my guess is they do not have the capability to read a meter that exports solar power. Its frustrating.

[Misab]

9 hours ago, Thaifish said:

To install legally on your roof it is not hard as long as the Inverter is one of the approved type by PEA. There is a list of approved inverters. I don't have a link to the approved inverters at the moment which you can find online.... If nobody else supplies a link in the next few if i remember I will post. You do not have to contact anyone. You are simply covering your a@se as long as the inverter is of an approved PEA type that does not export power during a power loss so you do not fry some worker down the road trying to repair a fault. I have had no luck having a meter installed that I can legit sell back to the grid my excess solar. Have been chasing a white elephant for the last couple of years trying to get one installed. If you are remote Thailand my guess is they do not have the capability to read a meter that exports solar power. Its frustrating.

Thank you Thaifish, I live i Cha Am - Hua Hin area. Nice to know its only the inverter there has to be approved 

[Misab]

23 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

The feed in credit is now ฿2.2 per kWh and your equipment needs to be on the approved list.

 

I am not an expert on FIT as I self consume  - my solar system powers my house and EV 99%

 

Probably not up to date:

 

https://solar-thailand.com/pdf/PEA.pdf

 

 

 

 

Thank you Bandersnatch   For others there might be interested in sell back price,  I just found this on the net.

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/40015856

 

[Bandersnatch]

15 hours ago, Misab said:

Thank you all for your comments, they are really appreciated and a great help. Some of you talked about PEA which made me search on the internet. For those of you there are interested in updated rules. I found this:

https://www.kunini.com/solar-rooftop-update/

 

 

 

The link is a blog for a solar installer but doesn’t have references to any official sites or documents.

 

When I met with the Head Office Manager at PEA Surin I asked him for a link to PEA’s rules for home solar installation, he could not give it to me. The meeting that went on for a couple of hours consisted mostly of him and his staff on the phone trying to find answers to my questions. 

 

To my knowledge my system complies with only one of the rules listed in the link (not to export) yet I have had 3 inspections by PEA including the solar team from PEA Korat and my system has passed every time. 

[007 RED]

15 hours ago, Misab said:

Thank you all for your comments, they are really appreciated and a great help. Some of you talked about PEA which made me search on the internet. For those of you there are interested in updated rules. I found this:

https://www.kunini.com/solar-rooftop-update/

 

 

Thanks for posting this article/advert.  I have to say I'm a little bit skeptical for a few reasons.

 

Firstly, it would have been nice if the author of the article/advert had provided a link to the specific details of this government announcement e.g.  when was it made, which government department made it and details of the new/modified regulations.  Having searched the internet I've not been unable to find any other reference to such change, other than this article.

 

Secondly, reading the article/advert and comparing it with the current regulations concerning the supply of electricity to the grid which falls under the 'umbrella' of EGAT, which if I'm correct was introduced in 2013, there is in fact very little difference in the basic requirements concerning the installation of solar systems, except for the 'special' requirements which I've pointed out bellow.

 

Thirdly, according to the article/advert:

"solar equipment needs to be verified and approved by the PEA/MEA; this includes Solar panels, inverters and mounting structures".  So now the PEA/MEA will not only have a list of approved inverters, but a list of solar panels and mounting fixtures which can be used. 

 

"The roof structure needs to be checked/verified by a Thai structural engineer to ensure that it can support the load".  This will be good fun.  Finding a licenced structural engineer in Thailand will be like finding a needle in a haystack, and if you do find one its going to cost an arm and a leg to get him/her to certify the structure.

 

"... once installed it needs to be registered with the Tessaban...."  Why?  What has the local authority got to do with someone having a solar panel system on their roof.

 

The above 'new' requirements, in my opinion, are not going to encourage people to go solar in the same way that the original regulations did nothing.

 

 

 

[007 RED]

On 9/21/2022 at 8:28 AM, Bandersnatch said:

Probably not up to date:

 

https://solar-thailand.com/pdf/PEA.pdf

 

13 hours ago, Thaifish said:

To install legally on your roof it is not hard as long as the Inverter is one of the approved type by PEA. There is a list of approved inverters. I don't have a link to the approved inverters at the moment which you can find online....

FYI.... The attached PDF is an up-to-date list of PEA approved inverters... look forward to seeing their approved list of solar panels and mountings ????.... I wonder if mine and @Crossy mountings will be on the list ????

PEA-InverterList-4-2565.pdf

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

FYI.... The attached PDF is an up-to-date list of PEA approved inverters.

They dropped the Deye 5kW for 1 phase

still showing the 10kW for 3 phase

 

Guess my 8kW on 1 phase won't be getting registered anytime soon ????

[Misab]

6 hours ago, 007 RED said:

FYI.... The attached PDF is an up-to-date list of PEA approved inverters... look forward to seeing their approved list of solar panels and mountings ????.... I wonder if mine and @Crossy mountings will be on the list ????

PEA-InverterList-4-2565.pdf 6.32 MB · 4 downloads

Thank you 007 Red 

[Misab]

On 9/21/2022 at 7:04 AM, bluejets said:

As far as I am aware, Thailand does not have any feedback payment which is why it is probably best to store your own excess.

 

Yes, you can sell it, new rules here, but you need to have an inverter there are accepted by the PEA.

2.20 per unit

MONDAY, MAY 23, 2022

THE NATION

SHARE

Households can sell their surplus solar electricity to state providers at the rate of 2.20 baht per unit, the Energy Regulatory Commission (ERC) said on Monday.

The Provincial Electricity Authority (PEA) and Metropolitan Electricity Authority (MEA) will buy surplus electricity from households with rooftop solar panels of up to 10kW capacity, said ERC secretary-general Komkrit Tantrawanit.

The PEA and MEA would each buy 5 megawatts of household solar per year for 10 years, starting in 2022.

Households must feed the surplus solar into the PEA or MEA grid within 270 days of signing the contract.

The National Energy Policy Council decided on March 9 to extend the household solar project after its launch last year.

Komkrit said no deadline had been set for house owners to apply to join the project.

Meanwhile, households who do sign up but fail to meet the 270-day feed-in deadline will be given an extra 90 days to supply their solar surplus.

Failure to meet the second deadline will result in cancellation of their contracts, Komkrit said.

He said the new announcement also applied to households who submitted applications to sell solar electricity to the MEA and PEA last year but have not started operations yet.

The two state firms will invite applicants to sign contracts within 30 days, Komkrit added.

He said the policy is aimed at cutting the use of fossil fuel to generate electricity after the Russia-Ukraine war caused energy prices to skyrocket.

[007 RED]

3 hours ago, Misab said:

Yes, you can sell it, new rules here, but you need to have an inverter there are accepted by the PEA.

 

Actually its not new and its not only the inverter that has to be accepted by the PEA or MEA, there are a lot of other matters that need their approval for example:  Type of solar panel; type of panel mountings; breakers; cables to name but a few.  

 

FYI.....  The PEA's and the MEA have been able to buy back power from Small Scale Solar Power Producers (SSSPP) for the past 9 years.  The only thing that has changed since these regulations were introduced is the amount that the PEA/MEA will pay for any power which they purchase from the SSSPP.

 

In 2013 the Energy Regulatory Commission (ERC) introduced the "Power Purchases from Solar PV Rooftop"  Regulations B.E. 2556.  I have attached below a translated PDF copy of these regulation, which runs into some 96 pages and sets out in great detail all the requirements.

 

My advice is don't read it before bedtime if you suffer from nightmares as its pure bureaucracy as invented by us Brits. and perfected by the Thais.

20130918_giz_translation_solar_rooftop.pdf

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

Actually its not new and its not only the inverter that has to be accepted by the PEA or MEA, there are a lot of other matters that need their approval for example:  Type of solar panel; type of panel mountings; breakers; cables to name but a few.  

 

Plus you have to use an approved (=$$$) installer ???? 

 

This is exactly why there are so many "illegal" small installations like yours and mine. It's just too complicated.

[Misab]

16 hours ago, 007 RED said:

Actually its not new and its not only the inverter that has to be accepted by the PEA or MEA, there are a lot of other matters that need their approval for example:  Type of solar panel; type of panel mountings; breakers; cables to name but a few.  

 

 

20130918_giz_translation_solar_rooftop.pdf 1.09 MB · 2 downloads

Okay.  So, when the politicians in May says.  Quote:  “the policy is aimed at cutting the use of fossil fuel to generate electricity after the Russia-Ukraine war caused energy prices to skyrocket.” Quote ended.

 

Then they don’t really mean it. It’s all blur because there is no new policy, no new rules, only a new price. They have not removed all the bureaucratic rules which, as I understand it now, makes it more or less impossible for a house owner to register his solar cells on the rooftop and sell what he/she are not using.

 

So much sun in Thailand but what a waste of clean energy. Even if someone wants to start a new project, he/she gives up before they have event started because of bureaucracy.

How sad, I really thought Thailand was in on fighting Climate Change.

 

When you go to the northern part of Europe with much less sun. The politicians don’t block solar installation with bureaucratic rules, no they provide grants for Solar Installations because they want to fight Climate Change. And some of the countries up there do a pretty good job. Denmark for instance going from 100 % fossil fuels to now 50 % of all electricity comes from wind and solar power, and they aim to reach 100 % within 10 years.

What does Thailand do?

[Muhendis]

26 minutes ago, Misab said:

So much sun in Thailand but what a waste of clean energy. Even if someone wants to start a new project, he/she gives up before they have event started because of bureaucracy.

How sad, I really thought Thailand was in on fighting Climate Change.

Sad indeed but that's what you get when the government gets income from electricity consumers. The government  is, I believe, the major shareholder of the energy companies. They are in business to take your money rather than give it to you. 

[BritManToo]

35 minutes ago, Misab said:

When you go to the northern part of Europe with much less sun. The politicians don’t block solar installation with bureaucratic rules, no they provide grants for Solar Installations because they want to fight Climate Change. And some of the countries up there do a pretty good job. Denmark for instance going from 100 % fossil fuels to now 50 % of all electricity comes from wind and solar power, and they aim to reach 100 % within 10 years.

What does Thailand do?

That's all changing now,

Australia and the USA want total control of home solar installations. In many states they want to tax use of solar cells.

 

In the UK you would need planning permission.

[Muhendis]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Australia and the USA want total control of home solar installations.

Yes, the last I heard the Australian companies have control to switch home generated export on and off. This does make some sense because that's what the big power stations do to get around the peaks and troughs of daily demand. What I find wrong with that is the power companies using solar to control grid power rather than the power stations.

[Misab]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

That's all changing now,

Australia and the USA want total control of home solar installations. In many states they want to tax use of solar cells.

 

In the UK you would need planning permission.

Tax on Solar energy what a sick idea, but then again Australia and the USA are not among the countries there really fight Climate Change, like they do in Europe.  UK has a lot of new project in the North Sea, as I remember, they are at the present building nr 3 wind mill park out there.  

 

[007 RED]

6 hours ago, Misab said:

Denmark for instance going from 100 % fossil fuels to now 50 % of all electricity comes from wind and solar power, and they aim to reach 100 % within 10 years.

What does Thailand do?

This is very admirable, and I hope they achieve their goal.  It's a pity that more countries are not following along the same path.

 

That said, producing vast amounts of electricity from wind and solar farms, which are no doubt heavily sponsored by the government, is a totally different story to installing "solar cells on the roof" as per your original post.

 

It has to be remembered that the average Somchai, on minimum wages is unlikely to be able to afford the initial outlay necessary to install even a small solar system on their roof which might just generate enough to meet their own needs, let alone produce any surplus for them to be able to sell off to their local PEA.

 

FYI...  My small scale system comprising 4 x 415W mono panels linked to a 2.2kW grid tied inverter.  Total hardware  cost = 28,000 THB.  This effectively reduces my electricity bill by 75% per month, and all being well will give a ROI in about 2.5 years.  This was a DIY installation project, so no labour costs other than my time and effort.  

 

If I had a company to do the installation, then the labour costs would be in the order of 100,000 THB, and that's without getting approval from my local PEA.  If I wanted a PEA 'approved' installer to install and obtain certification, then the cost would soar to 200,000 plus THB.  In both cases the cost of the hardware would be extra and no doubt considerably more than the 28,000 THB that I paid.

 

As you will see, there is a tremendous difference between the cost of my DIY install and that of a PEA 'approved' installation.  Unfortunately the cost of obtaining approval for a system, combined with the pittance paid by the PEA for buying any surplus, is no incentive whatsoever for most people here in Thailand to go solar.

 

The only people who realistically are/have considered getting PEA certification for solar system installations are the big companies who can invest in the considerable outlay for a large system.  The certification (commission) fees then become a very small percentage of their initial outlay costs.

 

Near where I live there are several large factories (mainly food production).  Looking at the satellite images from Google Maps, it is very evident that quite a few have invested in solar systems.  I have attached an image below of one such factory.  How many solar panels can you count in the roof?  As far as I'm aware the factory only works during the day time, six days per week, so its unlikely that they have an ESS for night time use.  I do wonder if they sell any surplus to the local PEA and if they do how much they get?

[Muhendis]

12 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

How many solar panels can you count in the roof?

What are the 1st, 2nd and 3rd prizes?