Introduction to Thai Immigration

[brianthainess]

18 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Would have been a good thing to check prior to post. 

He didn't want her shouting down the phone. ????

[Photoguy21]

Thought it was going to be "Hello immigration, I am me"

[JimGant]

19 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

She later attempted to depart using the new passport, but inflexible and poorly trained staff would only accept her as the Brit citizen she was when landed,

You need to use the same passport for exiting Thailand as the one (or the country thereof) you entered on. She could not switch to her new Thai passport to exit through Immigration. But, she could, and should, use her UK passport when checking into the airline -- to avoid visa questions, as airlines don't know or care that you also have a Thai passport.

 

So have your daughter use her new Thai passport next time she enters Thailand (and when she exits) -- at least at Immigration.

[JimGant]

18 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Would have been a good thing to check prior to post. 

Geez, cut the poor dad some slack. You think the ways of Immigration are straightforward?

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Geez, cut the poor dad some slack. You think the ways of Immigration are straightforward?

Yep.

Obviously the fella can post complaint about Thai immigration and from later posts indicate not aware of how daughters entered Thailand and ended up with overstay.

Yet cannot post asking for advice prior to daughters trip.

Score (so far) 3/10.

[marin]

58 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

She later attempted to depart using the new passport, but inflexible and poorly trained staff would only accept her as the Brit citizen she was when landed, hence the fine.  They could have been more flexible and sensible in waiving a fine, but Thailand.

No they could not. You must enter and exit country on the same Nationality of passport. Sadly she made the mistake after a long flight of entering on her UK passport. She overstayed and was fined. Not a good result but the only outcome possible. Like I said in the case of my daughter, she was questioned by the IO and advised by her to enter on her American passport because her expired passport could not be used to leave, nor could her American with no entry stamp. Trying to help her in case she was not able to renew her Thai passport. She chose to enter on the expired passport and did get the new one for departure. She was able to show the old one with the entry stamp on departure. 

 

I might add that this same daughter once came home from university for 3 weeks at Christmas and was tired from the long flight and entered on her US passport and got the visa waiver. If she had done the same thing in the summer she would have been on a 2 month overstay as she stayed 3 months. For sure maybe on the advice of the IO she entered on her UK passport. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by marin

[Old Croc]

Sorry. To those insisting you must use the same passport entering and leaving a country, I disagree.

Perhaps someone could show that legislation, not just relate what is generally practiced.  See my point about training and inflexibility.

 

However, my main point which you missed, related to the fine. As she is a citizen it was incorrectly levied.

"They could have been more flexible and sensible in waiving a fine, but Thailand. The computer system could have been updated to reflect her status as a Thai, and obviously fines could not be legally levied."

[BigStar]

21 hours ago, chinajohn69 said:

She now wonders what's the point of being PROUD to be Thai when IMMIGRATION are to charge her OVERSTAY on a THAI PASSPORT.

Thai Immigration seems to have taught her a needed lesson that being PROUD to be a Thai may not be sufficient to guarantee one's invincibility.

 

You might now help her come to accept the painful reality of petty rules, however much she may consider herself above them as a Thai. Someday, she may then be able to stand in a QUEUE to go back to Thailand and, happily, once again reunite with her family and friends there.

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

However, my main point which you missed, related to the fine. As she is a citizen it was incorrectly levied

The point you miss is that if the daughters entered with UK passport all bets are off.

 

Would be treated as a tourist.

Given visa exempt stamp and fined accordingly if overstay.

Thai national has nothing to do with it. 

 

The OP has not clarified what actually occured after the girls arrived back home. 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Sorry. To those insisting you must use the same passport entering and leaving a country, I disagree.

Perhaps someone could show that legislation, not just relate what is generally practiced.  See my point about training and inflexibility.

However, my main point which you missed, related to the fine. As she is a citizen it was incorrectly levied.

"They could have been more flexible and sensible in waiving a fine, but Thailand. The computer system could have been updated to reflect her status as a Thai, and obviously fines could not be legally levied."

The same situation has been discussed multiple times on this forum.

It a fixed and solid requirement the same passport must be used for leaving the country that was used for entry. It does not matter if the person is a Thai or not. If a new passport is obtained while in the country both passport of the same nationality must be used.

[bolt]

as a previous posts says

if you happen to have 2 passports or 2 forms of ID you MUST hide the one which you don't want to use, waving it around certainly won't help

 

I'm guessing the IO at BKK arrivals told this young girl "yes yes no problem' then stamped her UK passport.

it would save the IO lots of time and effort.

 

lets see what the UK passport has inside it.

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by bolt

[marin]

2 hours ago, Old Croc said:

See my point about training and inflexibility.

Stop it Croc, her new Thai passport had no entry stamp in it. This is the problem. My daughter was able to leave on her new passport because she had the entry stamp from 18 days ago in her old passport. It has nothing to do with Thai inefficiency at all. If you enter on a British passport you must leave on that one. 

 

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, marin said:

Stop it Croc, her new Thai passport had no entry stamp in it. This is the problem. My daughter was able to leave on her new passport because she had the entry stamp from 18 days ago in her old passport. It has nothing to do with Thai inefficiency at all. If you enter on a British passport you must leave on that one. 

 

My  daughter's new Thai passport had no entry stamps the first time she left Thailand. That point is not really in the equation.

 

Seems the the OP's daughter stamped in with her UK passport. I would guess she may have had both passports in her hand when she was at immigration on her return journey. There is no other way immigration would gave known.

 

Previously and entry card would give it away. I believe they have now been abolished. 

 

Was she singled out as she looks European? Who knows.

Edited September 23, 2022 by puchooay

[marin]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

My  daughter's new Thai passport had no entry stamps the first time she left Thailand. That point is not really in the equation.

When Immigration typed in her passport number or scanned it, it came back as new with no entries or exits. My daughters had many many journeys to and from Thailand. Very different situation indeed. 

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The same situation has been discussed multiple times on this forum.

It a fixed and solid requirement the same passport must be used for leaving the country that was used for entry. It does not matter if the person is a Thai or not. If a new passport is obtained while in the country both passport of the same nationality must be used.

I concur that this is a hard and fast rule with only one exception. If you acquire Thai nationality while in Thailand, you are allowed to exit on your newly acquired Thai passport.

 

On the other hand, I believe a senior official can decide to waive the fine.

[BritTim]

It is worth mentioning that this may not be the end of the problems. The next time she comes to Thailand, her passport issued in Thailand but never used might be queried. In the past, this has led to drama with immigration wanting you to use the foreign passport again. In at least one case, the Thai passport was destroyed on the spot at the airport by the immigration official. This was an extreme and atypical occurrence, but lesser issues might be encountered. Be prepared.

[puchooay]

5 hours ago, marin said:

When Immigration typed in her passport number or scanned it, it came back as new with no entries or exits. My daughters had many many journeys to and from Thailand. Very different situation indeed. 

You said the OP's daughter could not leave on her new Thai passport as it had no entry stamps in it. Incorrect.

 

Had it been a foreign passport, you would be correct.

[marin]

6 hours ago, puchooay said:

You said the OP's daughter could not leave on her new Thai passport as it had no entry stamps in it. Incorrect.

 

Had it been a foreign passport, you would be correct.

I am not going to get into a pissing match with you. My daughter was told by the IO on entry, " Bring your old Thai passport to exit or you will be denied". Makes sense to me and she did that and easily left. 

 

Perhaps try to help the OP instead of trying to pick holes in posts I hope are helpful. 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, marin said:

I am not going to get into a pissing match with you. My daughter was told by the IO on entry, " Bring your old Thai passport to exit or you will be denied". Makes sense to me and she did that and easily left. 

 

Perhaps try to help the OP instead of trying to pick holes in posts I hope are helpful. 

Read the post you quoted and then yours again, It seems he is discussing the new passport and not the old passport, which would have the visa needed to leave Thailand if she was going to a destination where the visa was needed.  

[Old Croc]

21 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

The point you miss is that if the daughters entered with UK passport all bets are off.

 

Would be treated as a tourist.

Given visa exempt stamp and fined accordingly if overstay.

Thai national has nothing to do with it. 

 

The OP has not clarified what actually occured after the girls arrived back home. 

The point you, and others, fail to understand, is that penalties under the Thailand Immigration Act cannot be levied against a Thai citizen! There appears to be comprehension issues also.

I said:

"Perhaps someone could show that legislation, not just relate what is generally practiced." 

 

The Act is legislation written about the entry and stay of "Aliens" into the country. This girl could not satisfactorily prove her Citizenship on arrival, and they took the easy way out by landing her on her alien passport. Lazy!

However, on departure, she presented indisputable proof of her citizenship in the form of a newly issued Thai passport and therefore should/could not be fined under the penalty provisions of an Act that applies to "Aliens".

 

[Section 4 : In this Act :
“ Alien” means any person who is not of Thai nationality under the nationality Act.]

[Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both]

 

I'm not disputing that individual officers don't misinterpret their own legislation; I'm stating what should have happened with more capable officers. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Old Croc

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

The point you, and others, fail to understand, is that penalties under the Thailand Immigration Act cannot be levied against a Thai citizen! There appears to be comprehension issues also.

I said:

"Perhaps someone could show that legislation, not just relate what is generally practiced." 

 

The Act is legislation written about the entry and stay of "Aliens" into the country. This girl could not satisfactorily prove her Citizenship on arrival, and they took the easy way out by landing her on her alien passport. Lazy!

However, on departure, she presented indisputable proof of her citizenship in the form of a newly issued Thai passport and therefore should/could not be fined under the penalty provisions of an Act that applies to "Aliens".

 

[Section 4 : In this Act :
“ Alien” means any person who is not of Thai nationality under the nationality Act.]

[Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both]

 

I'm not disputing that individual officers don't misinterpret their own legislation; I'm stating what should have happened with more capable officers. 

Incorrect. 

[puchooay]

4 hours ago, marin said:

I am not going to get into a pissing match with you. My daughter was told by the IO on entry, " Bring your old Thai passport to exit or you will be denied". Makes sense to me and she did that and easily left. 

 

Perhaps try to help the OP instead of trying to pick holes in posts I hope are helpful. 

Now you give the whole story.

 

More helpful. Thanks.

 

Just a quick question, how long ago was that? There have been automated gates at Suvannaphumi for a few years now.

[puchooay]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Read the post you quoted and then yours again, It seems he is discussing the new passport and not the old passport, which would have the visa needed to leave Thailand if she was going to a destination where the visa was needed.  

Actually nothing to do with visas.

 

Immigration don't check for visas for onward travel. The airlines do.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, puchooay said:

Actually nothing to do with visas.

 

Immigration don't check for visas for onward travel. The airlines do.

You can not get through immigration without them ensuring you have a visa for where your going. They stamp you out of the country.

[Old Croc]

I hope my posts are helpful to the OP if they try to get a refund through the Embassy for an illegally levied fine.

Unfortunately, it's probably a lost cause - Thailand. 

[puchooay]

18 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You can not get through immigration without them ensuring you have a visa for where your going. They stamp you out of the country.

You don't get stamped out of Suvannaphumi if you are Thai. There are automated gates.

 

Immigration don't even know where you are going. They don't check for visas. Only on the way in. 

 

The airlines will check as it is their responsibility to bring you back if you are denied entry.

[JimGant]

8 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You can not get through immigration without them ensuring you have a visa for where your going. They stamp you out of the country.

My dual citizen wife checks into the airline with her US passport, and goes thru Imm with her Thai passport, which, of course, doesn't have a US visa (as the US passport covers that aspect). They don't care -- if the US detects somebody screwed up allowing her to board that flight, well, it's the airline that screwed up, and it's the airline that pays for her return. Immigration has no pertinent interest.

 

The OP's daughter apparently checked into the airline with her UK passport. Then, what she should have done, is fill out a brand new TM6 departure card, with the arrival part still attached. Using the old departure card, where the arrival part was now on file in the data base, might have triggered a situation. Thus, for all intent purposes, she would look like a new passport holder, on her first flight out of the country. Yeah, if they were curious about no visa, she's just flash her UK passport  -- doubtful they'd spend any time researching the Thai entry stamp in that passport.

[puchooay]

9 minutes ago, JimGant said:

TM6 departure card

I believe they are no longer required.