New Political Party Ready To Launch

[ColPyat]

PPP salutes Thaksin legacy

The People Power Party (PPP) drew around 25,000 people for its first major rally in Bangkok at Sanam Luang yesterday where the party promised to continue the legacy of ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/13Oct2007_news12.php

At least the Bangkok Post got the numbers right, this time.

Compare the Nation on the same news:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30052278

PPP leader Samak starts his rally at Sanam Luang

People Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej has started his speech in a party's rally at Sanam Luang at 4.30am.

Around 3,000 people have attended the rally, "PPP meets people."

However, the number is lower than the party had expected due to the wet location after rain overnight.

Edited October 13, 2007 by ColPyat

[sriracha john]

PPP salutes Thaksin legacy

The People Power Party (PPP) drew around 25,000 people for its first major rally in Bangkok at Sanam Luang yesterday where the party promised to continue the legacy of ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/13Oct2007_news12.php

At least the Bangkok Post got the numbers right, this time.

Compare the Nation on the same news:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30052278

PPP leader Samak starts his rally at Sanam Luang

People Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej has started his speech in a party's rally at Sanam Luang at 4.30am.

Around 3,000 people have attended the rally, "PPP meets people."

However, the number is lower than the party had expected due to the wet location after rain overnight.

The difference being that the Post article was written overnight after the rally had been concluded while the Nation article was written as breaking news during the afternoon of the rally prior to its conclusion and likely while more people were still arriving.

Edited October 13, 2007 by sriracha john

[ColPyat]

The difference being that the Post article was written overnight after the rally had been concluded while the Nation article was written as breaking news during the afternoon of the rally prior to its conclusion and likely while more people were still arriving.

Due to the wording "Around 3,000 people have attended the rally," the nation news leaves the impression that this was all that have turned up, downplaying again extremely the number of a political party the do not agree with, and therefore further their tradition of partial and very subjective reporting and unreliability.

It serves nobody when such important events are misreported on. The Bangkok Post article though was spot on, both on the numbers, and the topic of the Samak speech, mostly going on (and on and on and on...) about Thaksin.

Edited October 13, 2007 by ColPyat

[hammered]

The difference being that the Post article was written overnight after the rally had been concluded while the Nation article was written as breaking news during the afternoon of the rally prior to its conclusion and likely while more people were still arriving.

Due to the wording "Around 3,000 people have attended the rally," the nation news leaves the impression that this was all that have turned up, downplaying again extremely the number of a political party the do not agree with, and therefore further their tradition of partial and very subjective reporting and unreliability.

It serves nobody when such important events are misreported on. The Bangkok Post article though was spot on, both on the numbers, and the topic of the Samak speech, mostly going on (and on and on and on...) about Thaksin.

Hi Colpyat we all know the Nation has trouble copy editing especialy in its breaking stories. It is a source of amusement though.

[ColPyat]

Hi Colpyat we all know the Nation has trouble copy editing especialy in its breaking stories. It is a source of amusement though.

I don't think this has anything to do with copy editing, unfortunately. There is one consistency with the Nation - and that is under- and mis-reporting on anti coup demonstrations, including downplaying of numbers, and extreme exaggeration of numbers attending rallies of a political view their editors support.

[sriracha john]

The difference being that the Post article was written overnight after the rally had been concluded while the Nation article was written as breaking news during the afternoon of the rally prior to its conclusion and likely while more people were still arriving.

Due to the wording "Around 3,000 people have attended the rally," the nation news leaves the impression that this was all that have turned up, downplaying again extremely the number of a political party the do not agree with, and therefore further their tradition of partial and very subjective reporting and unreliability.

It serves nobody when such important events are misreported on. The Bangkok Post article though was spot on, both on the numbers, and the topic of the Samak speech, mostly going on (and on and on and on...) about Thaksin.

What is even more paramount is simply being aware that if news is published during an event, it's not going to be complete in depth or numbers in attendance. That was easily determinable by the phrasing "starts his rally" and by the extreme brevity of the article and that it had come out in the afternoon. At that time, the numbers were likely very accurate and anyone sensible enough would have waited for a completed article to be written following the conclusion of the event before holding it up the following day to cite its alleged error, which, at the time of its publication, was not an error at all.

[hammered]

The difference being that the Post article was written overnight after the rally had been concluded while the Nation article was written as breaking news during the afternoon of the rally prior to its conclusion and likely while more people were still arriving.

Due to the wording "Around 3,000 people have attended the rally," the nation news leaves the impression that this was all that have turned up, downplaying again extremely the number of a political party the do not agree with, and therefore further their tradition of partial and very subjective reporting and unreliability.

It serves nobody when such important events are misreported on. The Bangkok Post article though was spot on, both on the numbers, and the topic of the Samak speech, mostly going on (and on and on and on...) about Thaksin.

What is even more paramount is simply being aware that if news is published during an event, it's not going to be complete in depth or numbers in attendance. That was easily determinable by the phrasing "starts his rally" and by the extreme brevity of the article and that it had come out in the afternoon. At that time, the numbers were likely very accurate and anyone sensible enough would have waited for a completed article to be written following the conclusion of the event before holding it up the following day to cite its alleged error, which, at the time of its publication, was not an error at all.

I am not surprised that people want to argue over the numbers rather than the rather mundane content of the rally. One wonders when Samak will come out of the closet and admit he is actually Thaksins "Gik". Interesting the stuff about how Samak will be a PM for the people like Thaksin. About all they have in comon is massacres, an intense desire for power and more power, an unerring belief that they are completely right in everything they say and do and a rather strange appearance. Unfortunately Master T has given Samak complete control over a lot of his transfer assured sitting MP feudal overlords who are shoe ins at any election whatever party they run for, so we could yet see the cheerleader of Bangkoks worst ever massacre get to lead the country, which considering 6 October 1976 would a rather sad indictment of anything that could be called democracy.

[ColPyat]

At that time, the numbers were likely very accurate and anyone sensible enough would have waited for a completed article to be written following the conclusion of the event before holding it up the following day to cite its alleged error, which, at the time of its publication, was not an error at all.

Where is the article now? Don't see it. The rally was finished by 20.30, well before deadline, and even well before that Sanam Luang was packed.

Don't see any correction, follow up article, neither in "breaking news".

And as you can see with Nation - it says:

"People Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej has started his speech in a party's rally at Sanam Luang at 4.30am."

Which is wrong as well - his speech was the last speech, and started at about 18.30 to 19.00 and lasted until about 20.15.

Simple conclusion - the wrong number the Nation mentioned stands for Nation readers. Partial and misleading journalism, in tradition of many such events by this rag.

[ColPyat]

I am not surprised that people want to argue over the numbers rather than the rather mundane content of the rally.

I do think it is very important to discuss the open siding of a major newspaper with political parties and movements, and even breeching factual reporting in the process by faking numbers.

Yes, Samak's speech was rather predictable and uneventful, and i do share your dislike of Samak. The more important discussion though is why he was chosen as head of PPP, against whom this is directed, and which top level political and social conflicts are initiated, or elevated here, and what that might mean for the future of Thailand's stability.

[hammered]

At that time, the numbers were likely very accurate and anyone sensible enough would have waited for a completed article to be written following the conclusion of the event before holding it up the following day to cite its alleged error, which, at the time of its publication, was not an error at all.

Where is the article now? Don't see it. The rally was finished by 20.30, well before deadline, and even well before that Sanam Luang was packed.

Don't see any correction, follow up article, neither in "breaking news".

And as you can see with Nation - it says:

"People Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej has started his speech in a party's rally at Sanam Luang at 4.30am."

Which is wrong as well - his speech was the last speech, and started at about 18.30 to 19.00 and lasted until about 20.15.

Simple conclusion - the wrong number the Nation mentioned stands for Nation readers. Partial and misleading journalism, in tradition of many such events by this rag.

The Nation does have an open and well known politcal stance which it should be praised on allowing to be openly seen. Most Thai newspapers are controlled by groups that equally have politcal aims but they are unwilling to publically let these be known. The standard of journalism in Thailand is no worse than in many western countries whre stories are exaggerated, twisted etc. The run up to the Iraq war was an expose of journalism far worse than anything seen in Thailand. To get a true sense of what is happening one needs to read across the spectrum and not trust news or academic sources totally imho and also trust what you see,hear and analyse yourself while being aware of obnes own biases.

However, in this case I think the Nations poor copy editing is all that is at play. The numbers at rallies are really irrelevent. The number of voters the canvassers are now busy lining up are what counts. It would probably do the country mor egood if the news media sent their reporters out around the country to investigate the stories of mass MP buying and vote buying. This may cost the rags a bit more and inconvenience reporters who would rather be doing the Bangkok party circuit after work and it may involve some danger but it is strange that what is known to happen is not even investigated. That is the sad indictment of Thai journalism although it hasnt yet plummetted to the depths of the New York Times et al with their puire propoganda in the run up to Iraq so maybe thee is yet hope in Thailand.

[hammered]

I am not surprised that people want to argue over the numbers rather than the rather mundane content of the rally.

I do think it is very important to discuss the open siding of a major newspaper with political parties and movements, and even breeching factual reporting in the process by faking numbers.

Yes, Samak's speech was rather predictable and uneventful, and i do share your dislike of Samak. The more important discussion though is why he was chosen as head of PPP, against whom this is directed, and which top level political and social conflicts are initiated, or elevated here, and what that might mean for the future of Thailand's stability.

I take the approach that all media is political by nature. It is aout power. Let media outlets side with whoeever they want but demand they are open about it like the Nation. Thai Rath is equally as politcal and controlled but is more furtive about it for example. "Freedom of the press is limited to those who won one". There are enough Thaksinistas controlling a media outlet or two to more than counterbalance what one low circulation english language newspaper says although right now they may keep their affiliations quiet as they indeed did when the T was in power. I also don believe there is factual reporting in any media based on my own experience of reported stories that I have had direct knowledge of that were not even politcal or contentious. I never knew of a single story that wasnt wrongly reported. We must always be aware of that when we read anything. imho

[ColPyat]

The Nation does have an open and well known politcal stance which it should be praised on allowing to be openly seen. Most Thai newspapers are controlled by groups that equally have politcal aims but they are unwilling to publically let these be known. The standard of journalism in Thailand is no worse than in many western countries whre stories are exaggerated, twisted etc. The run up to the Iraq war was an expose of journalism far worse than anything seen in Thailand. To get a true sense of what is happening one needs to read across the spectrum and not trust news or academic sources totally imho and also trust what you see,hear and analyse yourself while being aware of obnes own biases.

However, in this case I think the Nations poor copy editing is all that is at play. The numbers at rallies are really irrelevent. The number of voters the canvassers are now busy lining up are what counts. It would probably do the country mor egood if the news media sent their reporters out around the country to investigate the stories of mass MP buying and vote buying. This may cost the rags a bit more and inconvenience reporters who would rather be doing the Bangkok party circuit after work and it may involve some danger but it is strange that what is known to happen is not even investigated. That is the sad indictment of Thai journalism although it hasnt yet plummetted to the depths of the New York Times et al with their puire propoganda in the run up to Iraq so maybe thee is yet hope in Thailand.

Sorry to disagree. I don't think there is any praise for open siding to any political faction in journalism, at least not without equal measure of giving the opposite side's views. Obviously that is somewhat idealistic and unrealistic. But clear borders of journalistic ethics are crossed when numbers, events and facts are consistently faked. If you remember many arguments here on the board - this is not the first time i have noticed this.

And yes, i do agree with you about the shameful media run up to the Gulf war - but not every country has taken part in this. Many European countries have not let such propaganda dominate their magazines and papers as it did in some other countries who were most adamant in pursuing the war.

I do not think that numbers of rallies are unimportant at all, especially as they are usually always brought up by each side to support their stand. And yes, i o believe that attempts of vote and MP buying have to be investigated, but regardless of party politics. What also has to be investigated is why certain parties may have offices all over the country, but choose not to communicate much to the people in those districts. Also space should be given to the academics who believe that "vote buying" does not have the effects they are made out to be. The patronage system should be investigated, impartially, and its effects.

[ColPyat]

I never knew of a single story that wasnt wrongly reported. We must always be aware of that when we read anything. imho

Somewhat true.

Nevertheless - in cases such as yesterday (and in many similar events over the last two years) such gross mis-reporting on numbers freely available and not too difficult to estimate is breeching journalistic ethics to the extreme.

Starting from PAD rallies reported in the hundred thousands (even though Sanam Luang only holds 100K people at most when packed) up to reporting 15% of the people who have attended yesterday is obvious.

This is important, especially when this accompanies a consistent favourism of particular parties or movements.

Yesterday was PPP's first large event, and the public should be better served by factual reporting, and not laughable downplaying of their support. If one day PPP will get far more votes than such reporting suggests, then people do judge according to what was reported, and not what really happened.

[John K]

To be very honest, this talk by Thaksin, PPP/TRT about returning the country to democracy is beginning to wear a bit thin. Every time they open their mouths they imply it was not Thaksin who gutted democracy from Thailand but the Junta. More insults on the educated and feed propaganda to the lesser educated Thais. It is the same as if Thaksin himself was standing on stage insulting and putting everyone down again.

I hope the EC or whoever puts them out of their misery soon.

[A_Traveller]

Though not everyone's favourite source, an article by Shawn W Crispin is worth a read.

The new bout of political squabbling, this time between moderate and hard line forces inside the armed forces, comes at a time when the newly formed, Thaksin-affiliated People’s Power Party (PPP) is now being predicted by various political pundits to garner the most seats at upcoming polls. The earlier front-running Democrat Party has failed to generate enough funds for a successful election campaign and the party’s drive to penetrate the crucial northeastern region has been hobbled by internal squabbling over leadership and strategy, according to sources close to the party.

“The tide has changed completely,” says one political analyst with close ties to the military. “At first [the coup-makers] thought they could destroy Thaksin’s influence but now they realize they’re going to have to live with the guy. It’s like Caesar: everyone is scared of being stabbed in the back and so the hardliners are thrusting first.”

One strong signal that some sort of compromise with Thaksin may indeed be in the offing was the recent abrupt and unexplained halt to the strongest corruption case against Thaksin, involving his wife’s purchase of a government disposed plot of land in Bangkok. Others in Thaksin’s camp point to the government’s apparent refusal to allow anti-Thaksin protest leader Sondhi Limthongkul to return to the country after he gave a controversial speech which touched on the monarchy in California last month.

The creeping notion that Thaksin’s political proxies represented in the PPP are on the verge of a comeback and with apparent vengeance on their minds is no doubt stoking concerns among senior military officers directly involved in staging last year’s coup. Military hardliners who feel strongly that the interim government has not done enough to purge Thaksin’s influence lost a march last month when the more moderate Gen Anupong Paochinda was recently appointed army commander over the more fervently anti-Thaksin Gen Saprang Kalayanamitr.

Regards

[Tony Clifton]

At that time, the numbers were likely very accurate and anyone sensible enough would have waited for a completed article to be written following the conclusion of the event before holding it up the following day to cite its alleged error, which, at the time of its publication, was not an error at all.

Where is the article now? Don't see it. The rally was finished by 20.30, well before deadline, and even well before that Sanam Luang was packed.

Don't see any correction, follow up article, neither in "breaking news".

And as you can see with Nation - it says:

"People Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej has started his speech in a party's rally at Sanam Luang at 4.30am."

Which is wrong as well - his speech was the last speech, and started at about 18.30 to 19.00 and lasted until about 20.15.

Simple conclusion - the wrong number the Nation mentioned stands for Nation readers. Partial and misleading journalism, in tradition of many such events by this rag.

They once printed that a landing strip at Suwarnabhumi measured 43 cm in length. Cracks could be fixed with a bucket and a trowel.

Yet you are convinced 3,000 instead of 30,000 was intentional when the same article mentions 4 30 am...

[John K]

Numbers or sources of information aside, what occurred was a politically motivated pro Thaksin rally for a person who is banned from politics until June 1, 2012. It sounds a bit like digging up your dead pet because you want to play with it some more. Nothing quite smells like Thaksin arrogance in full bloom!

[ColPyat]

Though not everyone's favourite source, an article by Shawn W Crispin is worth a read.

Awesome article. If true, then this is better than anything i have read of him, and rather explosive.

[sriracha john]

such important events

rather predictable and uneventful

Consistently inconsistent... which was it?

Edited October 13, 2007 by sriracha john

[ColPyat]

such important events

rather predictable and uneventful

Consistently inconsistent... which was it?

Should be simple - the first public rally of a major political party that is by many estimated to be the strongest party after the next elections is an important event, while the campaign platform was rather predictable, and it went head without unforeseen events, and therefore - uneventful.

Got it now?

Edited October 13, 2007 by ColPyat

[younghusband]

Though not everyone's favourite source, an article by Shawn W Crispin is worth a read.

Awesome article. If true, then this is better than anything i have read of him, and rather explosive.

I agree that Crispin's article was fascinating though some aspects remain speculative.The broader truth as most experienced students of Thai history already know is that the ruling elite will seek to accomodate the Thaksin movement, particularly as efforts to neutralise or even destroy it have been spectacularly unsuccessful.I suppose the ruling elite could not have expected that the junta would have been quite so incompetent, visionless and corrupt as events have proved it to be.I would expect a rapprochement, not necessarily on the lines of Crispin's article, in the next year or so.

In the British army in the nineteenth century it was the custom when officers had disgraced their uniform to provide them with a brace of pistols and a decent bottle of brandy, and gently escort them into the mess library to do the decent thing.Does this have an echo in the Thai world because it might be a gentlemanly way out for a few elderly military types who have disgraced their uniforms and dishonoured their country?

Edited October 13, 2007 by younghusband

[sriracha john]

such important events

rather predictable and uneventful

Consistently inconsistent... which was it?

Should be simple - the first public rally of a major political party that is by many estimated to be the strongest party after the next elections is an important event, while the campaign platform was rather predictable, and it went head without unforeseen events, and therefore - uneventful.

Got it now?

Except it's not the first public rally for PPP... that occurred last month, on Sept. 25, when Samak was jeered out of Korat and 30,000 walked out on his speech during the rally in Buriram.

and your "uneventful" comment was in regards to his speech not the event of the rally itself, indicating Samak's speech was nothing new and thus leading away from the conclusion that this rally was a major event.....it was merely a rehashing of "I am Thaksin reincarnate... blah blah blah.." but then again, at least there wasn't a mass exodus of the audience this time... perhaps the side entertainment was better than what was provided in Buriram?

[ColPyat]

Except it's not the first public rally for PPP... that occurred last month, on Sept. 25, when Samak was jeered out of Korat and 30,000 walked out on his speech during the rally in Buriram.

and your "uneventful" comment was in regards to his speech not the event of the rally itself, indicating Samak's speech was nothing new and thus leading away from the conclusion that this rally was a major event.....it was merely a rehashing of "I am Thaksin reincarnate... blah blah blah.." but then again, at least there wasn't a mass exodus of the audience this time... perhaps the side entertainment was better than what was provided in Buriram?

Whatever, SRJ.

Go on with semantic discussions while completely missing the political developments that are debated here in this thread, and i would say rather more important that this little piss contest.

[Maestro]

A post containing a personal attack against another member has been deleted.

From the forum rules:

2) Posting another members personal details, photos or web site details is forbidden and will result in being banned. Excessive, aggressive posts against other members, moderators and admin; or flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is best defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, rants, and/or for launching personal attacks, insulting, being hateful, useless criticism, name calling, swearing and other bad behavior or comments meant to incite anger.

--

Maestro

[Gnarpjohan]

Yes, Samak's speech was rather predictable and uneventful, and i do share your dislike of Samak. The more important discussion though is why he was chosen as head of PPP, against whom this is directed, and which top level political and social conflicts are initiated, or elevated here, and what that might mean for the future of Thailand's stability.

I can't stop wondering about Samak. Could it be that right-winger, well-connected Samak is "politically correct" in some circles and a "preferred leader" of the big, rural party in Thailand? A more trusted version of Thaksin to control the populace, sort of.

[sriracha john]

Former prime minister Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyudh walks after lecturing about the sustainable development for Issan region in Khon Kaen on Tuesday. He may join small party to run in the next election.

Chavalit says he may join or form small party to contest next poll

Former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh said Saturday that he may join or form a small party to contest the next election.

But he said he would wait to hear the people's opinion first before making a decision whether to return to politics.

He said he would not join the People Power Party because he would not be able to change its platform for the sake of public interest.

- The Nation

Edited October 13, 2007 by sriracha john

[ColPyat]

Yes, Samak's speech was rather predictable and uneventful, and i do share your dislike of Samak. The more important discussion though is why he was chosen as head of PPP, against whom this is directed, and which top level political and social conflicts are initiated, or elevated here, and what that might mean for the future of Thailand's stability.

I can't stop wondering about Samak. Could it be that right-winger, well-connected Samak is "politically correct" in some circles and a "preferred leader" of the big, rural party in Thailand? A more trusted version of Thaksin to control the populace, sort of.

Very speculative.

But those circles are rarely unified in their views and are riddled by intrigues and infighting. But yes, Samak was mostly chosen by the ex TRT MP's because of his connections, which are seen by them to counterweight the power and influence of Prem.

[sriracha john]

People's Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej addresses supporters during a rally in Bangkok's Sanam Luang plaza October 12, 2007. More than 3,000 people took part in the party rally.

REUTERS/Arthur Jones Dionio (THAILAND)

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/071012/ids_pho.../r524702666.jpg

[sriracha john]

Chaturon backs PPP to win next election outright

The People Power party (PPP) can win enough House seats to form a single-party government after the next general election although the government is trying to undermine the party's political strongholds, according to Chaturon Chaisaeng (TRT Banned #2, right behind Thaksin #1), former acting leader of the disbanded TRT party. Chaturon said yesterday that PPP had the edge over other parties because it had enough former MPs and was proceeding with the TRT policies that people wanted. PPP leader Samak Sundaravej has also announced the party will not take revenge if it forms the next government. Meanwhile, former PM Chavalit Yongchaiyudh has hinted that he may return to politics by joining a small party or founding his own party. Veteran politician Chalerm Yubamrung also said he would discuss his political future with Chavalit soon. Chalerm joined PPP a week ago, but said yesterday that a big party might prohibit him from fielding his sons in the next election. He said he and his two sons, Wan and Duang, wanted to run in Thon Buri.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/14Oct2007_news08.php

[marshbags]

If i may be allowed to highlight a reference to the renowned people friendly family " Chalerms "

Ref url

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/14Oct2007_news08.php

and i quote:-

Pol Capt Chalerm joined PPP a week ago, but said yesterday that a big party might prohibit him from fielding his sons in the next election. He said he and his two sons, Wan and Duang, wanted to run in Thon Buri.

He admitted that Bangkok was actually the arena of the Democrat party and PPP and that it would be difficult for other parties to make their presence felt in the capital.

He did not rule out bidding farewell to politics altogether should he be unable to find a place for himself and his sons to run in the election.

Unquote

<deleted> !!! this must be a new low in Thai politics.

I wonder what the poor widow and family of the police officer murdered in cold blood not to long ago, thinks of this.

It was on a Thai news channel this A.M. showing Chalerm and his 2 sons.

It was an affront to Decent Thai people IMHO and made me feel shocked and saddened to see it.

( before i realised what it was about / had a chance then had to look away from what was obviously unfolding. )

They looked like the 3 pigs dressed up for dinner, they haven,t half put the kilo,s on.

Seems that repeated offences in thuggery count for nothing ......or do they ??????

marshbags