A man has died and none of us no why - we can only speculate - nevertheless, its a sad occasion.

 

Coincidentally, I ride the same model of bike (in Thailand) and have been riding bikes for over 50 years.  No matter where you ride, you have to accept that you are very vulnerable and adjust your riding to suit the conditions.

 

I've seen/heard thousands of comments over the years regarding the stupidity of other drivers causing accidents that kill/injure bikers. Yes, stupidity happens but there is another factor that many bikers fail to take account of - speed and the perception of speed/risk by other road users.

 

By way of example:

 

When, as is claimed so many times, a car 'pulls out on you', bikers should remember what exactly happens in many situations.  A driver sees you and in a split second their brain automatically calculates how far away you are and whether they can pull out or not - based on percieved speeds.  However, bikes, especially big bikes are often travelling at high speeds, the car driver's mental calculation is wrong and mayhem often ensues.

 

Its difficult to ride a big bike slowly - most, by definition, are simply not comfortable at slow speeds. The almost 'ask' you to go faster.  So, instead of blaming other drivers for their apparent stupidity, you have to take responsibility for your own safety and ride accordingly.

 

I'm no slouch, quote the opposite and often tear around at speeds and in situations which should dictate careful riding but I often ignore that.  So why am I still alive?  Because to ride a bike, you have to develop a highly advanced state of awareness.  You need 4 sets of eyes and the intelligence to realise that that car on the side road WILL pull out - not might. Awareness of the situation is the most important factor in what bikers call - defensive driving and its served me well over the years.

 

Its no use complaining about the stupidity of other road users, that won't change - you have to take responsibility for your own safety or you die.  Remember your vulnerability with no metal box to protect you.

 

That applies in any country but in Thailand, where there's a fairly high % of uneducated/stupid drivers, its an absolute must.  If you can't develop such skills or want to look macho riding at high speed in your T shirt with or without a crash helmet - you ain't going to survive.

 

So whilst none of us know what happened in this case, I think its a very safe bet that the poor biker was riding too fast for the conditions/traffic/potential risks.

Been here over 10 years ! I was a professional driver in the states!

This country brings a new meaning to driving defensively!

 

Driving any kind of bike here is life

threatening 10x fold imop 

 

Rip

11 hours ago, H1w4yR1da said:

".He then tried to evade a truck that was entering an alley and crashed into a power pole. "

Let me guess. Truck didn't look or signal before entering the alley, probably crossed 3 lanes of traffic and cut up the biker?

Or maybe the big bike rider was just going too fast, as the report suggests. 

I saw the video, that was suicidal riding and the accident just about inevitable..  Thank goodness he only killed himself and not some innocent bystander.  

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

A man has died and none of us no why - we can only speculate - nevertheless, its a sad occasion.

Did you see the video, it was on all the local news outlets ?  He was riding at a mental speed and brought it on himself. 

11 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Did you see the video, it was on all the local news outlets ?  He was riding at a mental speed and brought it on himself. 

No I didn't - I'm not in Thailand at the moment. If you read my post fully, you will  realise that what I'm getting applies to riding motorbikes in general and especially in Thailand.

 

I did say 'we can only speculate' - I certainly, and it seems many others, didn't have the information that the crash was caused by stupidity on the part of the rider at that time.  If that is the case then its clear where the blame lies and there could of course be other factors such as drugs, alcohol etc.  If someone is hell bent on riding like an idiot, then no amount of 'defensive riding' will protect them.

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

No I didn't - I'm not in Thailand at the moment. If you read my post fully, you will  realise that what I'm getting applies to riding motorbikes in general and especially in Thailand.

 

I did say 'we can only speculate' - I certainly, and it seems many others, didn't have the information that the crash was caused by stupidity on the part of the rider at that time.  If that is the case then its clear where the blame lies and there could of course be other factors such as drugs, alcohol etc.  If someone is hell bent on riding like an idiot, then no amount of 'defensive riding' will protect them.

He was riding quickly.

The truck slowly turned right across the road cutting off the rider. 
 

Speed clearly a factor in not being able to stop as the truck turned across his path, so yep, riding recklessly.  
The truck driver also at fault in causing the accident by not looking properly before turning. 
 

 

An inflammatory post has been removed.

23 hours ago, Andre0720 said:

It does not matter if the soi was small, and it does not matter if he was wearing a helmet.

In this type of accident, one vehicle is typically going too fast. And it does not appear to be the truck....

If everyone drove the speed limit, very few would die on the roads.

 

Guessing, too fast for conditions is the #1 reason of 99% of all accidents.

 

Wear a helmet, and I think most will survive a 0-60 kph accident.  I hit a house going much faster, knocked me out, but I did walk away after I came to.  Helmet saved me that day.

 

If a small soi, speed limit was probably 30 kph, and seems only 1 driver was doing that, and survived.

Edited November 4, 20223 yr by KhunLA

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

If a small soi, speed limit was probably 30 kph, and seems only 1 driver was doing that, and survived.

 

This is the road where the incident occurred:

- Blue arrow indicates the path of the truck turning across the road in front of the motorcyclist. 

- Red arrow indicates the ‘avoiding’ path the motorcyclist took (riding as speed unable to slow in time, obviously a moment of extreme bad-luck to hit that lamppost).

 

Speed limit is 60kmh (according to a sign further down the road on google maps). 

IMO - 60kmh is too fast for that type of road with all the frontages etc. 

 

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This is the road where the incident occurred:

- Blue arrow indicates the path of the truck turning across the road in front of the motorcyclist. 

- Red arrow indicates the ‘avoiding’ path the motorcyclist took (riding as speed unable to slow in time, obviously a moment of extreme bad-luck to hit that lamppost).

 

Speed limit is 60kmh (according to a sign further down the road on google maps). 

IMO - 60kmh is too fast for that type of road with all the frontages etc. 

 

The video I saw places the red line much further to the right as there oncoming traffic he also had to avoid.

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

The video I saw places the red line much further to the right as there oncoming traffic he also had to avoid.

Agreed... the ‘lines are imperfect’ just presenting the general idea of the type of road on which the incident occurred. 

22 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The truck driver also at fault in causing the accident by not looking properly before turning. 

Maybe or maybe not. As I mentioned earlier, drivers automatically calculate whether they can or cannot carry out a manoeuvre depending on conditions and the proximity of 'at risk' vehicles.  It is very difficult for the brain to calculate the speed of a directly oncoming vehicle and when that vehicle is a bike, many car drivers calculate that risk wrongly because bikes, especially big bikes are very likely to be travelling at much higher speeds than other vehicles.

 

I'm not an authority on the subject - I base what I'm talking about after taking part in a study conducted in the UK a few years ago which opened my eyes.  Until then I was amongst the majority of bikers who often claim that car drivers 'pull out on them without looking'.

 

I took part by post, simply answering a few multiple choice questions but the study also included 'live' segments = albeit carried out on a simulator.  The starting point was that the law in most countries (certainly UK law), states that you should not carry out any manoeuvre that causes other road users to alter their speed, course or direction.

 

The simulation segment interestingly included 2 groups - one, everyday car drivers, the other, bikers driving a car in the simulation.  Each group was tested for their likelihood to either pull out of a side road onto a main road or cut across from one carriageway to aonther - i.e. a right turn off the main road (based on driving on the left).

 

The study found that the majority of car drivers, faced with medium to heavy traffic, would in fact pull out or make a right turn across carriageways if the felt they would 'get away with it'.  In other words, they were prepared to cause another road user to alter their speed, course or direction if they calculated that it would just cause annoyance rather than a collision.

 

Interestingly, the biker group were much less likely to pull out/cut across other traffic than the car driving group when the oncoming vehicle was a bike - probably because their brain knows that bikers are usually travelling at higher speeds than other vehicles.

 

The likelihood of a collision was markedly reduced when there were clear points of reference with regard to the speed of the other vehicle.

 

Many drivers claim that they didn't see the oncoming vehicle - especially whe it was a bike.  The study questioned that claim by including oncoming bikes with their lights on and the riders wearing high visibilty jackets - it made little difference to the likelihood of them 'pulling out'. They would do so anyway as long as their 'calculation' told them the oncoming vehicle was noy collide with them.  The fact that the vehicle may have to brake heavily was of reducing consequence as traffic numbers increased.

 

The conclusion was as I said above - that in many cases drivers are prepared to take that 'calculated risk' based on the subconcious calculation their brain makes.

 

So, it is very likely in this case, that the truck driver did see the bike but calculated his manoeuvre based on a much lower expected speed for the bike. It seems that the biker was riding at a very high speed - therefore it is highly likely that speed was the major factor that caused the collision.

 

I've looked at things differently since that study and when riding I am constatly making my own calculations but I do so very conciously.

Edited November 5, 20223 yr by KhaoYai

22 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The truck driver also at fault in causing the accident by not looking properly before turning. 
 

 

It was daylight but it is nevertheless difficult to judge the speed of a distant headlight. There is also a mentality here that if you can get your vehicle out, and turn your back onto oncoming, it is acceptable to go. The bike can do over 150m in 5 seconds.....

Edited November 5, 20223 yr by jacko45k