Recommendation for health insurance for a Thai citizen

[lopburi3]

47 minutes ago, ole1291 said:

 

When talking private, I mean the best hospital's in bkk or cm, they're not perfect too (no where is) but my experience there were much better than Umphang/Maesot.

Indeed - but private hospitals outside of major cities are often not where you would want to get even emergency treatment.

[howerde]

17 hours ago, ole1291 said:

I actually was wondering about the feasibility of the reverse:

Doing scans, diagnostic etc privately (cause that's where the delays are) and then seeking treatment under universal coverage in the public sector.

But would public hospitals accept implementing a treatment based on the recommendations of a private  hospital?  

Sorry do not know, i would think a public hospital would use the decisions of the public hospital doctors not what the private hospitals say needs doing, they might accept the tests, at the end of the day it is all down to money, there is only so much money. in the social security system

You could get your wife to ask the hospital but as we all know you could get a different answer each time,  i have had first hand experience of a rural hospital and have to say the older doctors DO not like to be challenged,  or even a query can end with ok, you can go now lol

[ole1291]

1 hour ago, howerde said:

i have had first hand experience of a rural hospital and have to say the older doctors DO not like to be challenged,  or even a query can end with ok, you can go now lol

That's another aspect of public vs private. In a private setting, you can at least try to discuss to things with a doctor.

Otherwise, I've often found out doctors here think they are part of a higher caste that cannot be questioned by the lower peasants (everybody else).

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, ole1291 said:

That's another aspect of public vs private. In a private setting, you can at least try to discuss to things with a doctor.

Otherwise, I've often found out doctors here think they are part of a higher caste that cannot be questioned by the lower peasants (everybody else).

 

To be fair, there is also real time pressure in the public system.

 

I have sometimes taken Thais to see their same doctor at a private hospital for 1 visit just yo have time to ask questions and talk. It's a pretty 4ushed assrmbly line in the public hospitals.

[Lorry]

12 hours ago, ole1291 said:

Couldn't we, based on that, get her insured by a big international insurer as an expat in said EU country

Should be possible. 

Can't she establish residency there? It's usually just 3 months. 

Then get insurance in that country (how was she insured when you were there, anyway?)  - but again, it won't be easy to find one that covers her in Thailand, too. If I knew which country you are talking about maybe I could give some suggestions,  but 27 jurisdictions is too much. 

12 hours ago, ole1291 said:

then also use the policy in Thailand claiming we were just on a trip there?

How would the insurer know the difference?

They may ask for copies of flight tickets,  very common. 

If the claim is expensive,  they may ask for copies of all pages of her passport. 

If it's very expensive,  they may check the passenger manifesto of the airline (that's illegal,  but I have seen it happen).

 

Mostly, they will just ask some innocent sounding questions.  Like "where are you staying in Thailand?" And you or your wife naively answer "Oh, we have a house here." Then some insurance would say: "according to our policy,  you are not covered."

 

BTW European insurances are very suspicious when people from the third world make claims originating in their home country.  They smell corruption. Not so much in Thailand, though.

12 hours ago, ole1291 said:

would it be sufficient ground to deny a claim?

Depends on the policy.

Try to find a policy that covers her in her home country,  too.

Do not lie to them,  too risky. 

[ole1291]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

To be fair, there is also real time pressure in the public system.

 

I have sometimes taken Thais to see their same doctor at a private hospital for 1 visit just yo have time to ask questions and talk. It's a pretty 4ushed assrmbly line in the public hospitals.

Sure that's a factor, though I think it's also cultural.

 

Perhaps you missed my question with regards to community rated plans, do you think this is just an empty promise made by insurers on which they could go back any time?

[ole1291]

13 hours ago, Lorry said:

Should be possible. 

Can't she establish residency there? It's usually just 3 months. 

Then get insurance in that country (how was she insured when you were there, anyway?)  - but again, it won't be easy to find one that covers her in Thailand, too. If I knew which country you are talking about maybe I could give some suggestions,  but 27 jurisdictions is too much. 

They may ask for copies of flight tickets,  very common. 

If the claim is expensive,  they may ask for copies of all pages of her passport. 

If it's very expensive,  they may check the passenger manifesto of the airline (that's illegal,  but I have seen it happen).

 

Mostly, they will just ask some innocent sounding questions.  Like "where are you staying in Thailand?" And you or your wife naively answer "Oh, we have a house here." Then some insurance would say: "according to our policy,  you are not covered."

 

BTW European insurances are very suspicious when people from the third world make claims originating in their home country.  They smell corruption. Not so much in Thailand, though.

Depends on the policy.

Try to find a policy that covers her in her home country,  too.

Do not lie to them,  too risky. 

She has a residence permit valid to 2027.

The country is Norway, not technically EU but schengen EEA area (I think it's the same regs).

While there she was uninsured (I thought her being my wife entitled her to local health care, but it's not 100% clear).

 

Having a house shouldn't equal with permanent residence. We have a house in Norway too.

But I see how things could get dicey.

Frustrating because we wouldn't be technically committing fraud, just circumventing protectionist regs.

[Sheryl]

59 minutes ago, ole1291 said:

 

 

Perhaps you missed my question with regards to community rated plans, do you think this is just an empty promise made by insurers on which they could go back any time?

 

Legally yes they can. Historically, to date April Thailand has not done so. Should note however that April is just the manager, nto the underwriter. The underwriter (who has final say on such decisions) is LMG.

 

There is no way to get a Thai policy with a legal safeguard against raising premiums based on claims history because the Thai OIC requires such language in all policies.

 

I think for your situation a big issue is your ages and how long you expect to be in Thailand (in other words are you locking yourselves into something you cannot later change or revoke without serious problem?)

[ole1291]

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

 

I think for your situation a big issue is your ages and how long you expect to be in Thailand (in other words are you locking yourselves into something you cannot later change or revoke without serious problem?)

Thank you for explaining.

The plan is to stay here long term, perhaps until we're old.

But it's not 100%, hence why a worldwide excl USA policy is appealing.

We're trying to get insured while relatively young and without preconditions as per your recommendations. That's why I'm trying to be so careful, don't want to pay 20 years of premiums only to be swindled later or have a company go broke on us just at the time we will need them. 

[Lorry]

5 hours ago, ole1291 said:

Having a house shouldn't equal with permanent residence.

The insurance may know this. They will happily wait for you to sue them.

 

5 hours ago, ole1291 said:

Norway

Sorry,  can't help you with this. 

Have a look what Europeiske Reiseforsikring has to offer, or their parent company. They are quite good in other countries. 

[ole1291]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

The insurance may know this. They will happily wait for you to sue them.

 

Sorry,  can't help you with this. 

Have a look what Europeiske Reiseforsikring has to offer, or their parent company. They are quite good in other countries. 

Will do.

Thanks for the advice. 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, ole1291 said:

Thank you for explaining.

The plan is to stay here long term, perhaps until we're old.

But it's not 100%, hence why a worldwide excl USA policy is appealing.

We're trying to get insured while relatively young and without preconditions as per your recommendations. That's why I'm trying to be so careful, don't want to pay 20 years of premiums only to be swindled later or have a company go broke on us just at the time we will need them. 

The reason I asked about how long is that it is precisely as one grows old that an insurer raising premiums based on claims becomes a serious issue, because by that point you will likely be unable to get a different policy, and also may not be well situated to relocate.

 

Remember that your wife has the fall back of the free government system...so it is less of a risk for her than for you, and getting her a local policy and an international one for yourself might be an option. Yes, I know the hospital in Umphang is next to nothing - it is just a tiny community hospital - but they refer to the provincial hospital for most things that are at all serious or complex, and that's a 300+ bed facility. Which can in turn refer to a ~1000 bed regional hospital when needed. 

 

OR you might consider living elsewhere in Thailand, closer to better hospitals. Even with international insurance, you are not going to be able to get emergency care at the better private hospitals in Bangkok due to the sheer distance. And for non-emergent care it is going to be quite a hassle and expense to always travel to Bangkok from Umphang.

[ole1291]

On 11/14/2022 at 7:24 PM, Sheryl said:

 

OR you might consider living elsewhere in Thailand, closer to better hospitals. Even with international insurance, you are not going to be able to get emergency care at the better private hospitals in Bangkok due to the sheer distance. And for non-emergent care it is going to be quite a hassle and expense to always travel to Bangkok from Umphang.

Yes, that's the thing I guess, being far from the big cities (12h from BKK, 9h from CM), health care options are pretty limited, one way or another, and there's no perfect solution

As we're both still under 40, I think we're fine here for now, but it might make sense to move as we get older. 

Thank you for advice. Very useful to have all this in mind before committing to something.