I am looking for a (new) 2021 MacBook Pro from a REPUTABLE computer dealer

[sometimewoodworker]

16 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

The opening premise that Apple does not sell the 2021 models anymore is incorrect. There are no 2022 Macbook Pro 14/16 inch models anyways. Go and order directly from Apple:

 

https://www.apple.com/th/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/รุ่น-14-นิ้ว

 

The Macbooks that are sold at resellers pretty much all have Thai keyboards. Not sure if that would be what you want.

That could well be a reason for the discounts, there is also the fact that ordering directly you can chose the M1 Pro or M1 Max along with the number of -CPU cores and GPU, cores

[tomazbodner]

Try Houk and Bank, or Com 7 / Uficon, who often carry older models. But don't count on getting discounts like in US. Might charge you same for 2021 model as 2022.

[eisfeld]

23 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That could well be a reason for the discounts, there is also the fact that ordering directly you can chose the M1 Pro or M1 Max along with the number of -CPU cores and GPU, cores

Yes the resellers have usually just the base models and maybe one, two if lucky other configs so not much choice, especially regarding the keyboard language. But the base model of the 14/16 inch Pro models already start with 512GB SSD and 16GB ram so would be enough for the OP.

 

I have not seen proper discounts for Macbooks in Thailand though. In the US the 14 inch base Pro could be had for an amazing $1,600 ($400 off) at some resellers. Apple also there offer currently up to $250 gift cards when ordering one of these Macbooks I think.

 

20 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Try Houk and Bank, or Com 7 / Uficon, who often carry older models. But don't count on getting discounts like in US. Might charge you same for 2021 model as 2022.

There are no "older" models for the M1 Macbook Pro 14/16 inch. They are still the newest models and no new models will be announced until probably March next year. There are no 2022 models. Those with M2 only exist for the Macbook Air and Pro 13 inch.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I very much suspect that the information you believe you have been given is wrong, as you probably did not give all the context.

 

If an Apple device is currently registered to a an AppleID it can not be registered to another AppleID. (Though I have 2 devices showing on both of my Apple IDs I haven’t checked out the reason for that)

 

Once you use the forget device setting on your Apple ID you can sell or give it away. There is no limit to the number of times this can be done.

 

There is a limit to the number of Apple IDs that can be created on a particular device (it is 5)

however you do not have to create an Apple ID using any device so that is rather esoteric.

Well, all I can tell you is what AppleCare told me in a phone conversation with two different agents, and I found it hard to believe as well, but they assured me that what they were telling me was correct.

 

No worries since I am not going to buy a used device, but if I was, I wold want AppleCare to assure me that what you say is correct, and when I quired them they stick to what they were telling me.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

The opening premise that Apple does not sell the 2021 models anymore is incorrect. There are no 2022 Macbook Pro 14/16 inch models anyways. Go and order directly from Apple:

 

https://www.apple.com/th/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/รุ่น-14-นิ้ว

 

The Macbooks that are sold at resellers pretty much all have Thai keyboards. Not sure if that would be what you want.

 

I did not say they were not selling them anymore.  The fact is that they are not producing them anymore.  The 2021 MacBook Pro is almost a year old and a new version will be released shortly.  Production of new units has now stopped in anticipation of the new model rollout that will occur soon, and so existing inventory is all that exists.

 

Apple will not lower the price on existing inventory on their website or in their authorized stores in anticipation of that, BUT they are offering them on their Amazon store site at about 20% discount, and so are many resellers.  In other words, you can get the exact same computer on Apple's site or in their stores by buying from resellers offering this huge discount.

 

So, basically I am getting the exact same computer discounted by 20% compared to buying one from an Apple store or from their website.

 

I found one reseller (a brick and mortar store) in Bangkok that is offering that discounted price.  The store has been in business for over 10 years and the owner I have texted back and forth with sounds trustworthy and honest.  The box is sealed and has a Apple warranty card, and the store owner agreed to opening it in-store to fully check it out before payment is made.  What's more, my credit card company said I had full buyer protection for 120 days, and that if anything proved to be a problem, I was covered.

 

Right now, saving $400 is a big deal to me, and I see no reason to not take advantage of this.

 

As for the keyboard, it is indeed a Thai-Eng keyboard as you suspected and shown below, but is that really a big deal?  I mean, I never even look at the keyboard when I type, and I can't think of any reason that could be a problem BUT if you can think of one I am all ears.

 

[eisfeld]

6 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

You do not understand the situation.  The 2021 MacBook Pro is almost a year old and a new version will be released shortly.  Production of new units has now stopped in anticipation of the new model rollout that will occur soon, and so existing inventory is all that exists.

 

Apple will not lower the price on existing inventory on their website or in their authorized stores in anticipation of that, BUT they are offering them on their Amazon store site at about 20% discount, and so are many resellers.  In other words, a $1999 price is reduced to $1599

 

The one reseller I found here in Thailand that is offering that discounted price sounds trustworthy, the box is sealed and has a Apple warranty card, and my credit card is backing up the purchase with full buyer protection.

 

As for the keyboard, it is Thai-Eng.  No big deal as far as I can see.  Is there a reason I should be concerned about that?

I understand the situation very well as I'm about to buy a new Macbook myself. But you and others have talked about 2022 models for the Pro 14/16 which simply don't and will not exist. The newer models are 4-5 months out. I have not heard of any reports of production of 2021 models having stopped. But the discounts through resellers are very real.

 

It is correct that Apple does not really offer discounts but as mentioned they are offering a $250 gift card in the US for example. What you see on Amazon the "Apple Store" is sold by Amazon and not Apple and as far as I could see they don't ship to Thailand, it always says sold out when I choose Thailand as delivery destination. Which resellers who offer good discounts ship to Thailand? Haven't seen any properly authorized resellers here offering good discounts. What is the name of the reseller that you found?

[sometimewoodworker]

45 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Well, all I can tell you is what AppleCare told me in a phone conversation with two different agents, and I found it hard to believe as well, but they assured me that what they were telling me was correct.

I had a conversation with an AppleCare specialist today after your post and before I responded.

 

The information that you are reporting is 100% wrong. I suggest you call again to confirm, once you get your new computer they will respond with a callback.

 

As long as you delete the device from your AppleID account each time the only limit is the hardware keeping functioning.
 

Software that is linked to an Apple ID may quite possibly/ probably be limited to that Apple ID so the software can not be updated if you don’t have access to that account. 
 

However there is nothing at all stopping you from erasing the device and reinstalling the OS.

 

There is categorically no limit to the number of times a device that is not linked to an Apple ID can be reset and used.

 

There is also no way that (usually an iPhone/iPad) that is linked to an AppleID , is then stolen and wiped can ever be used without the original AppleID it becomes a brick.

[sometimewoodworker]

17 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

As for the keyboard, it is Thai-Eng.  No big deal as far as I can see.  Is there a reason I should be concerned about that?

The only reason would be the order of the non-alphabetical keys, some countries have a different order for some keys, I don’t know if Thailand is one, I do know that a Japanese/English keyboard has characters in different places.

[WaveHunter]

16 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

I understand the situation very well as I'm about to buy a new Macbook myself. But you and others have talked about 2022 models for the Pro 14/16 which simply don't and will not exist. The newer models are 4-5 months out. I have not heard of any reports of production of 2021 models having stopped. But the discounts through resellers are very real.

 

It is correct that Apple does not really offer discounts but as mentioned they are offering a $250 gift card in the US for example. What you see on Amazon the "Apple Store" is sold by Amazon and not Apple and as far as I could see they don't ship to Thailand, it always says sold out when I choose Thailand as delivery destination. Which resellers who offer good discounts ship to Thailand? Haven't seen any properly authorized resellers here offering good discounts. What is the name of the reseller that you found?

SO, what is your point?  Reseller don't just offer a 20% discount for the hell of it on Apple devices.  If you follow any of the Mac user sites, they have all been talking about this unusual discounting on 14 & 16 2021 MBP's for several weeks now.  I don't really care why it is being discounted; only that it is...and I want one LOL!

 

I know that the Amazon Apple Store is owned by Amazon but they are authorized by Apple.  Amazon will not ship it to Thailand but my package forwarding company in California will, and their warehouse is tax-free, so I was going to do that BUT I don't trust Thai Customs to not screw me on valuation of the VAT (in collusion with couriers like DHL), since they have done that to me in the past (even when an invoice has been included).

 

So, I scoured the internet here in Thailand and finally found a couple of resellers offering it at that discounted price.  One of them is particularly well established with a brick and mortar store in Bangkok, has the devices in Apple sealed boxes along with unused Apple warranties, and  has agreed to a full inspect of the computer prior to purchase.  What's more, my credit card company provides FULL buyer protection on this particular purchase based on a detailed phone call with them the other evening.

 

Based on all of this I feel pretty comfortable with the purchase and head to Bangkok tomorrow to buy it provided it checks out.

 

If, after what I have said, you still think there are reasons I should be concerned with this purchase, I really want to hear them.  I mean, $1599 USD is a good deal, but it is still a lot of money.  I don't want to be disappointed, so if I have missed something, or there is some special thing I should check out, I would welcome the advice!

[WaveHunter]

14 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The only reason would be the order of the non-alphabetical keys, some countries have a different order for some keys, I don’t know if Thailand is one, I do know that a Japanese/English keyboard has characters in different places.

That's a good point, and I'm glad you brought it up.  It gave me a few skipped heartbeats until the reseller sent me a snapshot showing what the keyboard looks like.  Keys are all in the exact same place as US keyboard, and the only difference is that Thai characters are included in addition to English.  For me, I don't even care since I don;t look at the keys when I type.  As long as the keys are where I expect them to be ????

 

[WaveHunter]

43 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I had a conversation with an AppleCare specialist today after your post and before I responded.

 

The information that you are reporting is 100% wrong. I suggest you call again to confirm, once you get your new computer they will respond with a callback.

 

As long as you delete the device from your AppleID account each time the only limit is the hardware keeping functioning.
 

Software that is linked to an Apple ID may quite possibly/ probably be limited to that Apple ID so the software can not be updated if you don’t have access to that account. 
 

However there is nothing at all stopping you from erasing the device and reinstalling the OS.

 

There is categorically no limit to the number of times a device that is not linked to an Apple ID can be reset and used.

 

There is also no way that (usually an iPhone/iPad) that is linked to an AppleID , is then stolen and wiped can ever be used without the original AppleID it becomes a brick.

Well, this is all really just academic since I am no longer thinking of buying a used device.  All I can go by is what two different Tier-level 2 supervisors told me on different occasions.  They both sounded like they were reading policy statements to me, not just hearsay, so I don;t know if you were given correct info or I was but when two different Apple supervisors tell me the same thing and word it the same way, I tend to believe it.

 

I mean, where would they come up with that specific information if it were not true?

 

One other point: You may be able to erase and load a new OS...but not without a valid Apple ID.  Also, I would venture to guess that the MAC ID of the device is something that the Apple servers can easily use to determine whether that device has ever been linked with another Apple ID.

 

BTW, your last comment about bricking make no sense  (I mean from a grammatical point of view).  Can you clarify what you mean?

[eisfeld]

Here are the two variations of the keyboards for US and Thai. Note for example the key left to "1" or the caps lock. Nearly all other keys are the same but the Thai version naturally is a much more "loaded" sight as most have 3 letters on them instead of 1. So for many people it might not be a big issue. I prefer the US layout even though I am currently typing this comment on a Macbook Air with Thai keyboard.

 

[Bill97]

On 11/19/2022 at 1:09 PM, WaveHunter said:

can buy on Amazon but would rather buy here in Thailand to avoid shipping, VAT, and Customs duties.

How do you avoid vat?  You think Apple does not pay customs duties?

[eisfeld]

39 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

SO, what is your point?  Reseller don't just offer a 20% discount for the hell of it on Apple devices.  If you follow any of the Mac user sites, they have all been talking about this unusual discounting on 14 & 16 2021 MBP's for several weeks now.  I don't really care why it is being discounted; only that it is...and I want one LOL!

My point was just that currently there are only the 2021 Pros for 14/16 inch and that the discounts are offered only in US. You have a good point about re-shipping. Not sure how much the shipping costs would be but let's say $100. Adding also 7% VAT would mean we end up at around $1,800 which is still $200 cheaper than buying locally. But then there are the long shipping times and the potential customs headache. Not sure if that's really worth it. You said though you found a reseller that offers it for the same $1,600 so that would be really great if it's new and sealed and the Thai keyboard doesn't bother you. Can you please name the reseller?

[eisfeld]

8 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

How do you avoid vat?  You think Apple does not pay customs duties?

You can't avoid VAT unless buying as a company or as a tourist and bringing it out of the country. Import duties for laptops seem to be 0%.

[sometimewoodworker]

31 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

One other point: You may be able to erase and load a new OS...but not without a valid Apple ID. 

Incorrect the OS is not linked in that way. The device is linked so the suitability of the device is checked. The Apple ID is not required if the device is not linked already to an Apple ID 

34 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Also, I would venture to guess that the MAC ID of the device is something that the Apple servers can easily use to determine whether that device has ever been linked with another Apple ID.

It is highly unlikely that the MAC ID is the way that validity is established as MAC ID spoofing is simple

 

36 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

BTW, your last comment about bricking make no sense  (I mean from a grammatical point of view).  Can you clarify what you mean?

If an iPhone/iPad (possibly others) is stolen or lost, if it has been registered with an Apple ID, you can erase the device but cannot install any Apple OS onto it. Hence it is bricked, I don’t know how to be more clear.

 

Bricked Apple motherboards for most phones are easy to find and cheap because they are useless for anything but parts.

[WaveHunter]

23 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Here are the two variations of the keyboards for US and Thai. Note for example the key left to "1" or the caps lock. Nearly all other keys are the same but the Thai version naturally is a much more "loaded" sight as most have 3 letters on them instead of 1. So for many people it might not be a big issue. I prefer the US layout even though I am currently typing this comment on a Macbook Air with Thai keyboard.

 

All things considered I'd prefer the US board even though I don't look at keyboard when I Type, but Thai-English keyboard sure does look pretty busy and sort of unsightly looking so I'm sure it's not going to help if I ever want to sell it back in the States LOL.

 

Has it caused you any issues using a Thai MBP compared with English one?  How do you like the AIr?  How long have you had it? 

 

The Air was my first pick but it just doesn't have the graphics processing power I really needed for my applications though it was close. 

 

Right now, the 2021 MBP specced at 16gB with a 512 SSD is the same price as a brand new Air configured similarly, so that's why I decide to go with the MBP, but the Air sure looks sweet, and so light too, by comparison!  Are you happy with your purchase?

[DrJoy]

On 11/19/2022 at 2:08 PM, WaveHunter said:

Sometimes living here in the Magic Kingdom is such a pain in the butt!  If it weren't for how sleazy Customs and courier companies are, I would happily buy it the USA and have it shipped.

If by any chance, any friend/relative is visiting Thailand, let them hand carry.

[eisfeld]

6 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

All things considered I'd prefer the US board even though I don't look at keyboard when I Type, but it sure does look pretty busy and sort of unsightly looking so I'm sure it's not going to help if I ever want to sell it back in the States LOL.

 

Has it caused you any issues using a Thai MBP compared with English one?  How do you like the AIr?  How long have you had it.  That was my first pick but it just doesn't have the graphics processing power I needed for my applications though it was close. 

 

Right now, the 2021 MBP specced at 16gB with a 512 SSD is the same price as a brand new Air configured similarly, so that's why I decide to go with the MBP, but the Air sure looks sweet, and so light too, by comparison!  Are you happy with your purchase?

The Macbook Air that I am currently using is a 2017 version purchased in 2019. I am not too bothered by the Thai keyboard to be honest but I'd prefer the US one for sure. I had to purchase a laptop in a bit of a rush locally and chose the older 2017 model on purpose because it didn't have the terrible butterfly keyboard that was so prone to breakage and was available in stock in the shop and reasonably priced. But I'm hitting the limits of it fairly regularily. 8GB RAM ain't enough for me and in video calls the CPU is also too stressed out and things start lagging.

 

I have debated with myself a lot over the past couple months if I should get a M2 Air or a 14 inch Pro because as you said price wise they are pretty much identical when you spec the Air to match and take into account Pro discounts. So it should be a no-brainer to pick the Pro right? Well... Do I need the CPU/GPU power of the Pro? Not really though when keeping a machine for several years it helps having too much rather than too little. The screen on the 14 Pro has nice blacks and the speakers are much better. But then again do I really need these? No.

 

I went to some shops to get a feel for the Air vs 14 Pro and the weight difference is really noticeable. Another thing I noticed is the air intakes that the Pro has on the left and right underside felt not so great when picking the laptop up. The Air also has vastly superior battery life (40%+)

 

So while in the beginning I was leaning really towards the 14 Pro, I'm now leaning towards the Air. It is lighter and thinner and so better suited for taking it somewhere or while chilling on the coach or in bed. For the heavy lifting I have a desktop. And so while I wont get as great a deal like with a Pro I think the Air will be good enough for me. I was waiting for 3nm Pros but those didn't materialize this year so I'm approaching the end of my patience. They'll anyways bump up prices in Thailand with the next refresh I'm sure.

 

So if you didn't do it already go to some reseller and see if you are about the added weight and feel of the Pro. If you don't and you get a proper non-refurbished 14 Pro for $1,600... not bad!

 

I'm 80% leaning towards the Air at the moment. Just unsure about getting the Midnight color. It looked really nice online but in the shop it looked quite blue instead. I worry about the durability as I've seen enough examples of how easily the scratch and the silver shining through including in Central where the ports had silver corners even though nobody is plugging anything into those ports there.

[WaveHunter]

59 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Incorrect the OS is not linked in that way. The device is linked so the suitability of the device is checked. The Apple ID is not required if the device is not linked already to an Apple ID 

It is highly unlikely that the MAC ID is the way that validity is established as MAC ID spoofing is simple

 

If an iPhone/iPad (possibly others) is stolen or lost, if it has been registered with an Apple ID, you can erase the device but cannot install any Apple OS onto it. Hence it is bricked, I don’t know how to be more clear.

 

Bricked Apple motherboards for most phones are easy to find and cheap because they are useless for anything but parts.

OK, I just got some clarification from Apple.  Here is the official policy (which is a little different than I understood originally).  This policy is specifically for iOS devices (not OSX).

• Apple currently limits each of its iPhones, iPads, or iPods to a maximum number of free accounts per device, which means no more than 3 total iCloud accounts can be created on any iDevice.

• Any single iDevice creates up to a maximum of three iCloud accounts, and these accounts are linked to your iDevice’s hardware, not your Apple ID account.

• This policy limit means the restriction is attached to the iDevice itself. So you (nor anyone else) can never create another iCloud account on that particular iPhone or iDevice.

So, It’s an Apple hard rule, so there’s no way around this set limit. If you or someone else already created all three iCloud accounts, you can’t create another iCloud account using that particular device. 

 

That means there is NO WAY to change this or wipe the slate clear.  Once the device passes hands by being sold 3 times, it can not be sold to a 4th unless they just want it for parts, or they want a fancy paperweight.

 

So, bottom line...what you are failing to take into account is this restriction policy is built into the hardware of the device itself.  Erasing the device or resetting it to factory settings will NOT get rid of this 3x restriction.  It remains for the lifetime of the device.

 

Again this only applies to iOS devices ( iPhones and ipads), not OSX devices like a Macbook Pro or Air devices.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

28 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

OK, I just got some clarification from Apple.  Here is the official policy (which is a little different than I understood originally).  This policy is specifically for iOS devices (not OSX).

• Apple currently limits each of its iPhones, iPads, or iPods to a maximum number of free accounts per device, which means no more than 3 total iCloud accounts can be created on any iDevice.

• Any single iDevice creates up to a maximum of three iCloud accounts, and these accounts are linked to your iDevice’s hardware, not your Apple ID account.

• This policy limit means the restriction is attached to the iDevice itself. So you (nor anyone else) can never create another iCloud account on that particular iPhone or iDevice.

So, It’s an Apple hard rule, so there’s no way around this set limit. If you or someone else already created all three iCloud accounts, you can’t create another iCloud account using that particular device.  Again this only applies to iPhones and ipads, not MacBook or other OSX devices.

 

That means there is NO WAY to change this or wipe the slate clear.  Once the device passes hands by being sold 3 times, it can not be sold to a 4th unless they just want it for parts, or they want a fancy paperweight.

 

You are missing the point that there is no requirement for an Apple ID to be created on a device.

 

you are welcome to create an AppleID using a computer, you are welcome to link that AppleID to your device. I have not created an AppleID on any iOS device AFAIR

 

I am not sure that the 3 accounts are correct as I was told 5, but the exact number is not material.

 

I would like the link to the policy or if it was by mail then a copy (identifying information redacted of course) so I can go back with my case number to get clarification. 
 

I still think that my conclusion is correct, this doesn’t invalidate your information but does suggest that the conclusion is inaccurate in that there is no limit to the number of times a device (not linked to an Apple ID) can be wiped. Yes if you get to the limit you can’t create a new AppleID on that phone but nothing is stopping you linking an existing AppleID

[proton]

Amazing machines, 20 hour battery and impressive sound

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are missing the point that there is no requirement for an Apple ID to be created on a device.

 

you are welcome to create an AppleID using a computer, you are welcome to link that AppleID to your device. I have not created an AppleID on any iOS device AFAIR

 

I am not sure that the 3 accounts are correct as I was told 5, but the exact number is not material.

 

I would like the link to the policy or if it was by mail then a copy (identifying information redacted of course) so I can go back with my case number to get clarification. 
 

I still think that my conclusion is correct, this doesn’t invalidate your information but does suggest that the conclusion is inaccurate in that there is no limit to the number of times a device (not linked to an Apple ID) can be wiped. Yes if you get to the limit you can’t create a new AppleID on that phone but nothing is stopping you linking an existing AppleID

I think the explanation I provided is correct.  It is from Apple.  You can google to find it spelled out in black and white just as I did. 

 

You can not install an OS without first having an iCloud account.   Do you agree with that?

 

When you first use a device, Your iCloud account is recorded and stored on the hardware portion of your device, not the OS or any software. Do you agree with that?

 

According to Apple, that information is not accessible to the user.  It cannot be edited or deleted, even if you do a complete and total reset on the phone back to factory default.   It stays there for the lifetime of the phone.

 

According to Apple, it can store up to three (3) icloud account, and no more.  Once three have been recorded, it can accept no more.

 

Again, it is all hardware based and can not be changed no matter what you do to your iCloud account.  Even deleting your account (which I think is impossible to do) will not change the hardware data on the device.

 

Just google it, or ask for a senior tech person at Apple like I did...Tier 2 or higher, not the people that just pick up the phone when you call since they know next to nothing.

[sometimewoodworker]

53 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I think the explanation I provided is correct.  It is from Apple.  You can google to find it spelled out in black and white just as I did. 

While you may have found it that doesn’t mean that it’s so simple to find. A URL would be helpful.

 

53 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

You can not install an OS without first having an iCloud account.   Do you agree with that?

That is clearly incorrect as all iPhones come with an OS and no iCloud account. Though that may be a special case, and as I mention under I haven’t installed an iOS for a long time, so can neither confirm nor refute the statement. So I don’t know for sure.

53 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

When you first use a device, Your iCloud account is recorded and stored on the hardware portion of your device, not the OS or any software. Do you agree with that?

To be sure if that statement is correct, or is not correct, I would have to have a new iPhone/iPad that has had not been started. This is not something I do on a regular basis, roughly once every 2 to 4 years and though I don’t positively recall the process I think it’s not correct. Again I don’t know for sure.

 

I certainly have installed a Mac OS on frequent occasions and for the Mac it is certainly not true, but then the question is about an iPhone/iPad, so it may not be relevant.

53 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

According to Apple, it can store up to three (3) icloud account, and no more.  Once three have been recorded, it can accept no more.

That is definitely incorrect. The Apple statement is that it can only ever create 3 free accounts accounts.

 

So create an account on a Mac or sign into an account that has been created on a different device. There is no limit to the number of accounts that you can sign into (though naturally you will need to sign out before signing into a new account)

53 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Again, it is all hardware based and can not be changed no matter what you do to your iCloud account.  Even deleting your account (which I think is impossible to do) will not change the hardware data on the device.

Correct, as far as I can see, but irrelevant as you can use a different (already created) account.

 

53 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Just google it, or ask for a senior tech person at Apple like I did...Tier 2 or higher, not the people that just pick up the phone when you call since they know next to nothing.

That is rather dismissive, Google is not authoritative and first tier techs know how to find the information that they have, they may not have the detailed knowledge of a product specialist but the vast majority of questions or problems don’t need to be escalated.

 

I have worked in tech support on a reasonably high level and while no company is precisely the same the first line techs do an excellent filter job. Apple first line techs can often give the required information, do an excellent job and know when to refer the questions.

[WaveHunter]

8 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

While you may have found it that doesn’t mean that it’s so simple to find. A URL would be helpful.

 

That is clearly incorrect as all iPhones come with an OS and no iCloud account. Though that may be a special case, and as I mention under I haven’t installed an iOS for a long time, so can neither confirm nor refute the statement. So I don’t know for sure.

To be sure if that statement is correct, or is not correct, I would have to have a new iPhone/iPad that has had not been started. This is not something I do on a regular basis, roughly once every 2 to 4 years and though I don’t positively recall the process I think it’s not correct. Again I don’t know for sure.

 

I certainly have installed a Mac OS on frequent occasions and for the Mac it is certainly not true, but then the question is about an iPhone/iPad, so it may not be relevant.

That is definitely incorrect. The Apple statement is that it can only ever create 3 free accounts accounts.

 

So create an account on a Mac or sign into an account that has been created on a different device. There is no limit to the number of accounts that you can sign into (though naturally you will need to sign out before signing into a new account)

Correct, as far as I can see, but irrelevant as you can use a different (already created) account.

 

That is rather dismissive, Google is not authoritative and first tier techs know how to find the information that they have, they may not have the detailed knowledge of a product specialist but the vast majority of questions or problems don’t need to be escalated.

 

I have worked in tech support on a reasonably high level and while no company is precisely the same the first line techs do an excellent filter job. Apple first line techs can often give the required information, do an excellent job and know when to refer the questions.

Look, I think we've played this debate to death.  All of the information I've provided is not anecdotal.  It comes from Apple and other credible sources. 

 

    1) You cannot set up an OS on a iOS device without an iCloud account.  The hardware will not allow that. 

    2) The hardware does in fact record your iCloud account into the hardware side of the device.

    3) Once it is recorded, it can not be erased by you, even if you completely reset the device to factory settings. 

    4) The iOS hardware will only allow up to a maximum of three iCloud accounts to be associated to it, and no more. 

    5) Even if an account is deleted from iCloud (which I believe can not even be done), it doesn't matter since this is a hardware restriction, not a software or iCloud restriction.

 

 

These are the facts that two senior technicians from AppleCare have given me, in addition to seeing it in black & white in a Google search.  it's not the kind of information that Apple wants widely known I suppose since it is really hard to find it on Apple.com, but it is out there from credible sources. 

 

Here's just a few links that discuss this in more detail:

• https://appletoolbox.com/icloud-the-maximum-number-of-free-accounts-have-been-activated-qa/

• https://macreports.com/cannot-sign-in-the-maximum-number-of-free-accounts-have-been-activated-fix/#:~:text=This message occurs because Apple,your iOS or iPadOS device.
• or just google this search term: "the maximum number of free accounts have been activated on this iPhone"

 

If you doubt this, just contact AppleCare, and ask to speak to a TIER TWO specialist since the less experienced people will probably not know this information.

[WaveHunter]

11 hours ago, eisfeld said:

...I have debated with myself a lot over the past couple months if I should get a M2 Air or a 14 inch Pro because as you said price wise they are pretty much identical when you spec the Air to match and take into account Pro discounts. So it should be a no-brainer to pick the Pro right? Well... Do I need the CPU/GPU power of the Pro? Not really though when keeping a machine for several years it helps having too much rather than too little. The screen on the 14 Pro has nice blacks and the speakers are much better. But then again do I really need these? No....

I did a lot of research before deciding on the 2021 MacBook Pro vs the new Air M2, and also the M1 Air vs M2 Air.  The consensus of most reviewers I saw on YouTube was that the M2 is really only marginally better and in most cases just not worth the added cost.  Apparently it will be the M3 that will have major differences.  There are literally dozens of comparison reviews on the M1 vs M2 vs the anticipated M3 on YouTube.

 

For right now, the M1 is the best bang for the money with the Airs is the takeaway I arrived at, and if you really want something better, wait for the M3.  For most people that will use the device in a casual way like for web browsing, emails, etc.., the M1 Air is incredible I think, and probably the best laptop on the market, bar none!

 

I only chose the MacBook Pro (M1) because my applications require the graphic processing power since I work with the latest version of Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Premiere, and other graphics card intensive applications like DaVinci Resolve and Corel Painter.  Applications like these require state-of-the-art graphic card processing that the Air just doesn't have, according to benchmark tests.

 

If it were not for that, I would gladly have gotten an Air for the light weight, and better and more refined ergonomic design.  If I had the money I would have BOTH an Air and a macBook Pro ????

 

[BKKBike09]

11 hours ago, eisfeld said:

I'm 80% leaning towards the Air at the moment. Just unsure about getting the Midnight color. It looked really nice online but in the shop it looked quite blue instead. I worry about the durability as I've seen enough examples of how easily the scratch and the silver shining through including in Central where the ports had silver corners even though nobody is plugging anything into those ports there.

I have a Midnight Air (M2 with 16GB / 512GB) - just bought it to replace a 2012 MacBook Air which worked flawlessly for years until trackpad started playing up a bit recently. Midnight shows fingerprints much more than I thought it would.

 

The latest MB Airs are basically comparable performance-wise to MB Pros from a couple of years ago. I think unless intended use is gaming or serious video editing, latest MB Air is a great choice. I don't know if local pricing will be changed to reflect weakened THB?

 

I've used Macs for years - still use a 2011 iMac every day for WP / emails / internet browsing and watching Youtube. Works fine. Good luck doing that now with a 10 year old Windows clunker.

 

12 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Has it caused you any issues using a Thai MBP compared with English one?  How do you like the AIr?  How long have you had it? 

The Thai-English keyboard is messy; the older versions used to be much clearer because the English letters were bigger than the Thai. But it's simple to buy a keyboard English only skin on Lazada or whatever. If you order a new MB online you can specify an English-only keyboard if you want.

 

If you do buy a new MB, one tip is don't buy the compact charger because it has the wall plug pins built in. So you can't swap out the plug pins for a UK or other set if you travel etc. 

 

As I said above I think MB Air is a great choice for all round use.

[WaveHunter]

8 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

I have a Midnight Air (M2 with 16GB / 512GB) - just bought it to replace a 2012 MacBook Air which worked flawlessly for years until trackpad started playing up a bit recently. Midnight shows fingerprints much more than I thought it would.

 

The latest MB Airs are basically comparable performance-wise to MB Pros from a couple of years ago. I think unless intended use is gaming or serious video editing, latest MB Air is a great choice. I don't know if local pricing will be changed to reflect weakened THB?

 

I've used Macs for years - still use a 2011 iMac every day for WP / emails / internet browsing and watching Youtube. Works fine. Good luck doing that now with a 10 year old Windows clunker.

 

The Thai-English keyboard is messy; the older versions used to be much clearer because the English letters were bigger than the Thai. But it's simple to buy a keyboard English only skin on Lazada or whatever. If you order a new MB online you can specify an English-only keyboard if you want.

 

If you do buy a new MB, one tip is don't buy the compact charger because it has the wall plug pins built in. So you can't swap out the plug pins for a UK or other set if you travel etc. 

 

As I said above I think MB Air is a great choice for all round use.

Great suggestions!  Thanks for your input, especially about the compact charger.  I did not know that, and that would be a real issue for me ntp being able to charge on trips to US.

 

As for those keyboard skins, have you ever used them?  Just wonder if they have good tactile qualities.  Truth is I never really look at the keyboard when I type, and usually use an external keyboard when I use the device on my desk, but that Thai-English keyboard sure is messy looking so skins might be good to clean things up...if they do not affect tactile quality.

[WaveHunter]

Just a helpful note for anyone else considering purchase of Appler devices from a non-authorized reseller.

 

I was just on phone with AppleCare|Asia and was give some great advice that allows you to check a new Apple device from a non-authorized reseller.  Note that I feel that the reseller I am dealing with is honest and trustworthy but the advice I was given makes the transaction even safer.

 

With the actual serial number of device in hand, all you need to do is go to two apple sites and enter the number:

 

#1 - https://support.apple.com/en_US/specs

Enter the serial number and you will get detailed specs on that specific device including the date of manufacture, the exact configuration, etc.

 

#2 - https://checkcoverage.apple.com/

Enter the serial number to see if the warranty is genuine and whether or not it has been activated, and additional information.

 

My reseller is allowing me to take step #2 in his store and actually activate it so I can leave the store knowing the device is under warranty.

[BKKBike09]

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Great suggestions!  Thanks for your input, especially about the compact charger.  I did not know that, and that would be a real issue for me ntp being able to charge on trips to US.

 

As for those keyboard skins, have you ever used them?  Just wonder if they have good tactile qualities.  Truth is I never really look at the keyboard when I type, and usually use an external keyboard when I use the device on my desk, but that Thai-English keyboard sure is messy looking so skins might be good to clean things up...if they do not affect tactile quality.

The charger with the ability to change wall plug fitting is also what you need if you use an extension cable with the charger. The cable on the new MB Air charger is longer than on my old MB Air charger, but I still like to be able to use the extension lead.

 

Apple have also changed the design of their chargers so that the cable to connect to the laptop can now be removed from the charger. This stops the cable fraying where it joins the charger (nearly every charger I've ever had, had this issue after a while). 

 

I've never used a skin so can't comment on the tactile qualities.

 

One other point about all the new MBs - they no longer have any USB-A ports, everything is USB-C. So you need an adapter to use any USB-A device ...