Problem with AirBnB host reporting to immigration

[DrHoneydew]

Fun update.

 

Spoke with someone different from the company on the phone today wo speaks good English. Had a good conversation and got a better feeling that I had the upper hand in this situation. He is going to have someone take me to immigration tomorrow to make sure everything is ok.

 

He explained that they did indeed use another address because this one is not registered.. or something along those lines. 

 

When speaking with him, I reiterated that it is his responsibility to report within 24 hours or they could get slapped with an 800 baht fine. I told him about me potentially having an overstay on my record. I told him my lawyer recommended I find a new place and ask for my money back. I told him I we go that route than we are going to end up turning this into a much bigger deal than either of us wants. 

 

Funny... there is also 3 people here right now to fix the hot water and they brought a pile of amenities I didn't ask for. iron, microwave, toaster etc. 

 

Thank you all for the insights. Made me feel a little better about 'standing up' for myself. 

[MrMilk]

You can take the 4-5 hours trip to the Ban Laem border tomorrow. Go by motorbike or van.

There you will get a new 45 day Visa exempt stamp for around +/- 2000 thb. Plus 500 thb for one day overstay. No-one going to ask any questions and you start over with a clean slate.

 

Another option is to pay a agent to do the visa extension for you. Expect to pay premium since you already on overstay. 

 

Or you check into a hotel for a couple of nights just to get the TM30 from them and deal with the immigration yourself afterwards.

 

I would just take the trip to Ban Laem, it takes quite some hours but its stress-free and you also get 15 days extra.

 

Forget about lawyers, threats, and conflicts with the house owner. Its a losing game and far from worth it. Just let it go.

Continue renting from him if you feel like it or just cancel the booking through AirBnB if you feel like moving on.

[Lemsta69]

  On 11/19/2022 at 3:24 PM, DrHoneydew said:

I do not know why they wanted me to sign a blank contract, but I can't help to be suspicious considering everything else.

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Have you done any searching on the topic of "is Airbnb legal in Thailand"?

 

I did, and got mixed results. Very hard to tell fact from fiction. The links that are first-ranked by Google are written by randoms with goodness only knows what sort of legal qualifications or actual knowledge. 

 

Eg. take the first article below. It states that AirBnb is illegal in Thailand but then goes on to state that some property types can operate legally if they apply for an exemption to The Hotels Act. It says houses and villas can receive exemptions but that multi-dwelling buildings such as condos don't qualify.

 

The second article says more or less the same thing - Airbnb at condos is verboten, hence your host's reluctance to submit TM30 without being pushed by the guest.

 

https://www.thethailandlife.com/airbnb-thailand

 

https://thaiguider.com/airbnb-thailand/

[Lemsta69]

  On 11/19/2022 at 5:02 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Airbnb isn't legal in Thailand to start with.

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Source? Pics or it didn't happen.

[Lemsta69]

  On 11/20/2022 at 10:42 AM, DrHoneydew said:

reiterated that it is his responsibility to report within 24 hours or they could get slapped with an 800 baht fine.

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Are you aware that it's not just the 'landlord' that can submit a TM30? You as the tenant can also do this, provided of course that they supply you with the necessary paperwork or the login credentials for the online TM30 reporting system. I can provide references to this if you really need it but I was told this by our resident guru Ubonjoe so it must be true lol. 

 

For various reasons some property owners are reluctant to submit a TM30 for their tenants. Some supposedly don't even know, or pretend not to know, about it. Some will point blank refuse to do it as per previous reports here on AN.

 

Unfortunately it'll most likely be you that cops the fine and not the housemaster. Immigration aren't going to go chasing errant landlords when they can simply say pay up farang or you don't get extension. 

 

So the reality is that if you are going to be dealing with Immigration and they want a copy of the TM30 notification slip, then it is incumbent on yourself as the tenant to ensure that it happens.

 

Me, I wouldn't hand over a cent to an Airbnb Host without getting it in writing via the Airbnb chat function that they will submit the TM30 on your behalf and within the allotted timeframe. Now I'll add 'ensure they use the actual address' to that list in light of the fast one they tried to pull on you ????

 

I wouldn't lease a condo either without such an assurance. 

[Sparktrader]

  On 11/20/2022 at 10:34 AM, DrHoneydew said:

I like living on condo resorts, and airbnb is a LOT cheaper for longer stays, plus you get much more. For example, you can find a 2 bedroom condo/penthouse with a jacuzzi overlooking the ocean for a month, about what you'd pay for 1 week in a hotel and have more freedoms and (most importantly) space. I once had a 200sq meter penthouse on the 32nd floor overlooking the ocean in Jomtien for 40K/m. You can find smaller new condos on resorts with massive pools and slides etc for about 10-15K/m. I just find that you simply can't find that quality of living in any hotel. I go through airbnb instead of something like a facebook marketplace for anything less than a year because the large property management companies usually only offer long term stays.

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Thailand has 3 star hotels 500 baht. Why do you need a 2 bedroom unit?

 

Hotels daily cleaning. Proper reporting of aliens.

 

Airbnb is a big to..

[edwardandtubs]

  On 11/20/2022 at 10:34 AM, DrHoneydew said:

I like living on condo resorts, and airbnb is a LOT cheaper for longer stays, plus you get much more. For example, you can find a 2 bedroom condo/penthouse with a jacuzzi overlooking the ocean for a month, about what you'd pay for 1 week in a hotel and have more freedoms and (most importantly) space. I once had a 200sq meter penthouse on the 32nd floor overlooking the ocean in Jomtien for 40K/m. You can find smaller new condos on resorts with massive pools and slides etc for about 10-15K/m. I just find that you simply can't find that quality of living in any hotel. I go through airbnb instead of something like a facebook marketplace for anything less than a year because the large property management companies usually only offer long term stays.

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Hotels and apartments will give you a massive discount for a monthly stay. Airbnbs in Thailand typically charge double or triple what you would pay for a 6 month contract. If you're staying for 3 weeks an Airbnb might be a bit cheaper but it's a massive false economy as you've found out with your immigration problems. I've had nothing but trouble with Airbnbs (eg the code to the property didn't work, no stove even though it was in the photos and I specifically asked about it) so don't use them anymore. And yes it's definitely illegal. You can see big signs up in some condos stating which particular laws are being violated with anything less than a monthly stay that isn't in a registered hotel.

[DrHoneydew]

  On 11/20/2022 at 11:28 AM, MrMilk said:

You can take the 4-5 hours trip to the Ban Laem border tomorrow.

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Where is ban laem? Google says it's a seaside district without any country borders

See here

 

[Lemsta69]

  On 11/20/2022 at 5:22 PM, DrHoneydew said:

Where is ban laem? Google says it's a seaside district without any country borders

See here

 

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Try this...

 

Ban Laem Border Checkpoint, จบ.4033 Thep Nimit, Pong Nam Ron District, Chanthaburi 22140

 

 

[SS1]

  On 11/19/2022 at 5:02 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Airbnb isn't legal in Thailand to start with.

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I believe that statement is incorrect. There is nothing illegal about using AirBnB as a platform itself. It's just illegal for individual room owners to rent for less than 30 days at a time without a hotel license. 

An actual hotel using AirBnB to rent rooms would be legal, as well as private condo owners renting for more than 30 days at a time. 

[Krabi King]

  On 11/19/2022 at 5:11 PM, Simple Jack said:

I had no idea. Just read up on this. As they say nowadays. Fact check: True

 

Whats more shocking. Loads of places near me. Basically advertise as Airbnb.

 

Thanks for the info Frits. o7 bro.

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  On 11/19/2022 at 5:02 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Airbnb isn't legal in Thailand to start with.

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  On 11/19/2022 at 10:23 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Not illegal if over 30 day stay.

 

Op just stay in a cheap hotel for a couple days, whilst there find a longer stay solution who does TM30s

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Airbnb is not illegal in Thailand. Also not illegal to rent per night.

It all depends where you do your fact checking. Reminds me of some global thing we had recently...

 

Fact: I rent out a property for years already, PER NIGHT. I report to immigration by app and I have a license from the authorities. They came by and checked the house.

A year or so ago Airbnb has held online seminars for Thailand hosts. It's all possible. You just need to have your place registered and pay tax.

These are true facts.

[Lemsta69]

  On 11/21/2022 at 10:03 AM, Krabi King said:

You just need to have your place registered and pay tax.

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According to the articles I read following a Google search it is not possible to register your place if it's a multi-dwelling building such as a condo. Supposedly only homes and villas gain apply for an exception under The Hotels Act.

[Seeall]

We do TM30 for all ours and for other slackers.....

 

better choices my friend...

[Seeall]

  On 11/21/2022 at 10:47 AM, Seeall said:

We do TM30 for all ours and for other slackers.....

 

better choices my friend...

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obviously thay back date.. but not 100% as the system does not let one ender past dates... yeah they thought of that...

[PingRoundTheWorld]

  On 11/19/2022 at 3:24 PM, DrHoneydew said:

Do I see a lawyer Monday morning?

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And do what exactly??? What is it you think the host owes you? just check in to a hotel for one night like a normal person and go to immigration in the morning. You won't even be charged overstay for one day, and if you are charged it's only 500 baht per day.

The possible overstay is actually your fault for not going to extend your landing stamp sooner - why wait for the last minute? Understandable if you didn't know about TM30, but probably 99% of Airbnb's operate illegally and therefore won't report TM30 - they had you sign a blank rental contract just in case authorities came looking for one later on (which they probably won't but I guess they're covering their ***).

And it's not just Airbnb hosts - even landlords for regular rental contracts will usually not report TM30 either because why bother? if anyone gets the fine it'll be you - not them.

[FritsSikkink]

  On 11/21/2022 at 10:03 AM, Krabi King said:

 

 

Airbnb is not illegal in Thailand. Also not illegal to rent per night.

It all depends where you do your fact checking. Reminds me of some global thing we had recently...

 

Fact: I rent out a property for years already, PER NIGHT. I report to immigration by app and I have a license from the authorities. They came by and checked the house.

A year or so ago Airbnb has held online seminars for Thailand hosts. It's all possible. You just need to have your place registered and pay tax.

These are true facts.

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Fact checking has nothing to do with it, this is the law:

"the conditions are defined by the “Hotel act” published in 2004 which stipulates the rentals of less than 30 days are only possible by approved establishments. Hear this, who has a hotel license. Individuals can legally rent their property for longer than 30 days either through Airbnb (or any similar platform) or via more “traditional” means. With the exception of guest houses registered at the Ministry of Tourism (Ministerial Regulation, 2008)."

[geisha]

Next time you book an Airbnb, ask for the screenshot of your arrival immediately, saying you are going to immigration the next day.   A neighbour of mine did this in Phuket , got his screenshot the same day. Some people earn a lot of money through Airbnb legally, and don’t want to be reported to the company. Ask before you book anywhere in Thailand.  Really, it is up to you to know these things, especially where immigration is concerned.  
 

 

[problemfarang]

  On 11/20/2022 at 10:34 AM, DrHoneydew said:

I like living on condo resorts, and airbnb is a LOT cheaper for longer stays, plus you get much more. For example, you can find a 2 bedroom condo/penthouse with a jacuzzi overlooking the ocean for a month, about what you'd pay for 1 week in a hotel and have more freedoms and (most importantly) space. I once had a 200sq meter penthouse on the 32nd floor overlooking the ocean in Jomtien for 40K/m. You can find smaller new condos on resorts with massive pools and slides etc for about 10-15K/m. I just find that you simply can't find that quality of living in any hotel. I go through airbnb instead of something like a facebook marketplace for anything less than a year because the large property management companies usually only offer long term stays.

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thanks for the long explanation and i mean it because i didnt know

but it seems... you have all but no TM30... well... and i heard many other serious things... so again i wouldnt 

its already easy and cheap to find a place in thailand to stay

[Krabi King]

  On 11/21/2022 at 1:21 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Fact checking has nothing to do with it, this is the law:

"the conditions are defined by the “Hotel act” published in 2004 which stipulates the rentals of less than 30 days are only possible by approved establishments. Hear this, who has a hotel license. Individuals can legally rent their property for longer than 30 days either through Airbnb (or any similar platform) or via more “traditional” means. With the exception of guest houses registered at the Ministry of Tourism (Ministerial Regulation, 2008)."

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You are contradicting yourself. If it is law, it will be considered fact. Plus you show here yourself that Airbnb itself is not illegal, while you said it is. A bit of nuance needs to be added when making a brief statement like you did.

 

“The Hua Hin ruling has made it clear that short-term renting on a daily or weekly basis to tourists is illegal,” says Chris Potranandana, a partner at the law firm Strathmore Litigation and Asset Management. “To make it legal, the hosts need to have a Hotel License.”

 

Source: https://bk.asia-city.com/city-living/news/heres-what-airbnb-ban-really-means-bangkok/

 

[DrHoneydew]

  On 11/21/2022 at 1:08 PM, PingRoundTheWorld said:

And do what exactly??? What is it you think the host owes you? just check in to a hotel for one night like a normal person and go to immigration in the morning. You won't even be charged overstay for one day, and if you are charged it's only 500 baht per day.

The possible overstay is actually your fault for not going to extend your landing stamp sooner - why wait for the last minute? Understandable if you didn't know about TM30, but probably 99% of Airbnb's operate illegally and therefore won't report TM30 - they had you sign a blank rental contract just in case authorities came looking for one later on (which they probably won't but I guess they're covering their ***).

And it's not just Airbnb hosts - even landlords for regular rental contracts will usually not report TM30 either because why bother? if anyone gets the fine it'll be you - not them.

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Fun Update #2

THEY ended up getting fined 1700BHT. I got no fines.

 

I was not looking into a lawyer to get anything out of the owner, but rather ask about the situation where my incorrect address and arrival dates were already reported. Obviously I'm not going to go along with that, so I was unsure and concerned about what might happen if I write down a different address during the extension than what the TM30 shows.

 

This is my 3rd time here. about 2.5 years total over the past 7. I've done the border run to extend a few times, mixed with METV. Have been using AirBnb, hotels, and a real-estate agent. Have never not been given at least the required paperwork to do it myself. Maybe I've been lucky.

[DrHoneydew]

3 staff members showed up at my door at 7:30am and drove me to immigration. One of them stayed by my side the entire time.

Owner was fined 1700BHT

I was not fined

After we finished the boss offered me a banana and a bottle of water before driving me back home.

Gave me a 1000BHT refund through AirBnb a couple days later

Was a good outcome.

 

Can say that I've been using AirBnb and renting through other websites for 12 years in many countries and have never had problems. Thanks all for the intel!

[Maestro]

The OP got his problem resolved on 25 November 2022. See here:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1278334-problem-with-airbnb-host-reporting-to-immigration/?do=findComment&comment=17748916

 

I am now going to remove all replies after that post.

 

Topic closed.

[Maestro]

@Seppius

Your post with a question about the Edge Pattaya, which appears to be a condominium building in Pattaya, also got removed. Please feel free to start a new topic about it in the Pattaya forum.