Ukraine war: Rishi Sunak visits President Zelensky in Kyiv as he pledges £50m in aid

[Scott]

 

Rishi Sunak has pledged £50m in defence aid to Ukraine as he met President Volodymyr Zelensky in his first visit to Kyiv since becoming prime minister.

Mr Sunak said it was "deeply humbling" to be in Kyiv and that the UK would continue to stand by Ukraine.

"Since the first days of the war, Ukraine and the UK have been the strongest of allies," Mr Zelensky said following the meeting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63687045

 

[Social Media]

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Do the long suffering British populace support that, while prices increase and I believe the Chancellor just promised tax increases?

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do the long suffering British populace support that, while prices increase and I believe the Chancellor just promised tax increases?

 

 

Yes.

Ukraine is fighting, not only for their own freedom but also for those of Europe.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do the long suffering British populace support that, while prices increase and I believe the Chancellor just promised tax increases?

 

 

The British public know the consequences of appeasing tyrants.

 

 

[internationalism]

was is a planned visit?

if not, it might have something to do with polish missile "accident".

that 50mln is nothing in comparison what boris  johnson promised during his 2 earlier kiev visits - that suppose to be some 1bln.

Is the UK scaling down it's military support to cool down zelensky, who is desperate into pushing Nato into an open war?

It looks like Nato started to divide over war. Was polish "accident" a kind of provocation to escalate conflict?

Edited November 20, 2022 by internationalism

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

was is a planned visit?

if not, it might have something to do with polish missile "accident".

that 50mln is nothing in comparison what boris  johnson promised during his 2 earlier kiev visits - that suppose to be some 1bln.

Is the UK scaling down it's military support to cool down zelensky, who is desperate into pushing Nato into an open war?

It looks like Nato started to divide over war. Was polish "accident" a kind of provocation to escalate conflict?

Good for the suffering British populace that Johnson is no longer PM then.

 

Unless someone can come up with a reason for Russia to destroy a Polish grain silo, Occam's razor suggests it was a Ukrainian anti air missile that missed and landed in Poland. They are apparently still using Russian built anti air missiles.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

was is a planned visit?

if not, it might have something to do with polish missile "accident".

that 50mln is nothing in comparison what boris  johnson promised during his 2 earlier kiev visits - that suppose to be some 1bln.

Is the UK scaling down it's military support to cool down zelensky, who is desperate into pushing Nato into an open war?

It looks like Nato started to divide over war. Was polish "accident" a kind of provocation to escalate conflict?

Did Boris announce visits beforehand? Do any P.M's announce beforehand? You may want to think about why.

[billd766]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do the long suffering British populace support that, while prices increase and I believe the Chancellor just promised tax increases?

 

 

I do and am quite happy that my taxes go towards helping the people of the Ukraine against the maniac personified, by Putin.

[thaibeachlovers]

26 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I do and am quite happy that my taxes go towards helping the people of the Ukraine against the maniac personified, by Putin.

You are obviously well enough off to be happy. I'm pretty sure a few million or so citizens are not so well off as yourself.

It's not like any one was asked though, was it?

[billd766]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are obviously well enough off to be happy. I'm pretty sure a few million or so citizens are not so well off as yourself.

It's not like any one was asked though, was it?

You have no idea how well off or not I am, and having had my state pension frozen since 2009, I am equally sure that there are millions of UK citizens far better off than I am.

 

Why would the government ask people about every thing that they do? It matters not which party is in power, they ARE in power until the next election, which they will either win or be booted out.

 

THAT is the time the people get asked.

 

If the party in power does well, they get re-elected, and if not they lose power and control.

 

Your vote may count. My vote won't count until it is supposedly restored next year.

 

If you have a problem you can always start a referendum.

 

This link may give you an idea.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

I wish you good luck

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You have no idea how well off or not I am, and having had my state pension frozen since 2009, I am equally sure that there are millions of UK citizens far better off than I am.

 

Why would the government ask people about every thing that they do? It matters not which party is in power, they ARE in power until the next election, which they will either win or be booted out.

 

THAT is the time the people get asked.

 

If the party in power does well, they get re-elected, and if not they lose power and control.

 

Your vote may count. My vote won't count until it is supposedly restored next year.

 

If you have a problem you can always start a referendum.

 

This link may give you an idea.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

I wish you good luck

 

 

 

This is a forum, not the UN. Carry on without me.

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You have no idea how well off or not I am, and having had my state pension frozen since 2009, I am equally sure that there are millions of UK citizens far better off than I am.

 

Why would the government ask people about every thing that they do? It matters not which party is in power, they ARE in power until the next election, which they will either win or be booted out.

 

THAT is the time the people get asked.

 

If the party in power does well, they get re-elected, and if not they lose power and control.

 

Your vote may count. My vote won't count until it is supposedly restored next year.

 

If you have a problem you can always start a referendum.

 

This link may give you an idea.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

I wish you good luck

 

 

 

Actually labour is just as supportive of the sanctions and military aid as are the tories. That goes for the latest polls too, the majority of Uk are supportive

Edited November 20, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[billd766]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

This is a forum, not the UN. Carry on without me.

OK

[herfiehandbag]

17 hours ago, internationalism said:

was is a planned visit?

if not, it might have something to do with polish missile "accident".

that 50mln is nothing in comparison what boris  johnson promised during his 2 earlier kiev visits - that suppose to be some 1bln.

Is the UK scaling down it's military support to cool down zelensky, who is desperate into pushing Nato into an open war?

It looks like Nato started to divide over war. Was polish "accident" a kind of provocation to escalate conflict?

And the airborne landings at the airports on 24th of February due to faulty settings on the (Western) SatNav on the aircraft, the armoured columns heading for Kiev a regrettable map reading error by a couple of tired officers on a routine in on or training exercise, the civilian bodies left lying in the streets were due to unfortunate negligent discharges by tired troops with admittedly poor weapon handling skills, the savage artillery and missile bombardment of Mariopul a firepower demonstration which went a bit over the top?

 

Face the truth @internationalism, face it man, open war was unleashed on Ukraine by Russia in February. 

 

Dr Strangelove was a movie some 60 years ago, and it was a fantasy then!

Edited November 21, 2022 by herfiehandbag

[internationalism]

that missile into poland was an accident or possible ukrainian provocation that could trigger article 5, ww3 and nuclear war.

The USA, and always closely following them the UK government, don't want any escalation. Republicans want to monitor Biden's ukrainian aid and cut future spending. This might be true reason for Sunak's visit, as washington emissary. Mentioned in article 50mln figure might indicate all what ukraine might get the next year in military aid. 

That 2.3bln gbp which Sunak mentioned coming this year to ukraine is that much less for the UK army, or indeed the NHS.

That missile suppose to fly east, towards russian rockets. It not suppose to do U-turn and fly in a strait line west to polish border. It suppose to have self-destroy mechanism. Americans, brits already realise that.

 

Some African press might be more observant, than self-censored european one.

 

"It is a dangerous game President Zelensky is playing. There is a growing desire in geopolitics for the war to end. Recently, the Biden administration privately implored President Zelensky to tone down his hostile rhetoric against Moscow and publicly show hints of a willingness to negotiate an end to the war."

https://www.iol.co.za/sundayindependent/news/politics/opinion/how-kyivs-errant-missile-nearly-caused-world-war-iii-d34f61bd-3356-4f91-aa93-512f0f00c380

[Summerinsiam]

Almost all wars are ended through negotiation and this one will be likely the same. What is the alternative? A nuclear armed Russia is unlikely to accept a conventional defeat. Even the top US general said recently that Ukraine cannot win. Of coure, Ukraine is in the right. But that does not mesn it is blameless either. Sadly, Zelensky is part of the  problem. Citizens of many European countries are paying for his support  and therefore his assertion that all decisions rest with Ukraine alone is patently false. He must embrace realpolitick or be pushed if necessary. Its high time for a realistic diplomatic solution to this dangerous and needless conflict. Is it really that important which flag flies in the Donbas?

[billd766]

2 hours ago, internationalism said:

that missile into poland was an accident or possible ukrainian provocation that could trigger article 5, ww3 and nuclear war.

The USA, and always closely following them the UK government, don't want any escalation. Republicans want to monitor Biden's ukrainian aid and cut future spending. This might be true reason for Sunak's visit, as washington emissary. Mentioned in article 50mln figure might indicate all what ukraine might get the next year in military aid. 

That 2.3bln gbp which Sunak mentioned coming this year to ukraine is that much less for the UK army, or indeed the NHS.

That missile suppose to fly east, towards russian rockets. It not suppose to do U-turn and fly in a strait line west to polish border. It suppose to have self-destroy mechanism. Americans, brits already realise that.

 

Some African press might be more observant, than self-censored european one.

 

"It is a dangerous game President Zelensky is playing. There is a growing desire in geopolitics for the war to end. Recently, the Biden administration privately implored President Zelensky to tone down his hostile rhetoric against Moscow and publicly show hints of a willingness to negotiate an end to the war."

https://www.iol.co.za/sundayindependent/news/politics/opinion/how-kyivs-errant-missile-nearly-caused-world-war-iii-d34f61bd-3356-4f91-aa93-512f0f00c380

President Zelensky is NOT as you imply, 'playing' at war, but leading his country in an unprovoked war, which was brought about by the homicidal president Putin of Russia.

 

Russia, under Putin believed that they could invade a sovereign country unopposed, take it over very quickly and enslave the Ukraine and ALL its people, without NATO or the West raising a finger to stop him.

 

It might even have worked but for the Ukrainian military who are willing to keep their homeland free of Russian dictatorship, by giving everything, including their lives to stop him.

 

With the assistance of the West in providing military hardware, not only has the Ukraine stopped the invasion, but shown how 'invincible' the once might Russian military is.

 

Instead of whining about one missile having gone astray, why are you not complaining about Russia destroying the infrastructure of the Ukraine, a war crime on its own, let alone the indiscriminate bombing, shelling and missile attacks on the civilian population, men, women and children of the Ukraine, which, BTW is also yet another war crime?

 

Why are you not condemning the illegal invasion of a peaceful sovereign country?

[billd766]

9 minutes ago, Summerinsiam said:

Almost all wars are ended through negotiation and this one will be likely the same. What is the alternative? A nuclear armed Russia is unlikely to accept a conventional defeat. Even the top US general said recently that Ukraine cannot win. Of coure, Ukraine is in the right. But that does not mesn it is blameless either. Sadly, Zelensky is part of the  problem. Citizens of many European countries are paying for his support  and therefore his assertion that all decisions rest with Ukraine alone is patently false. He must embrace realpolitick or be pushed if necessary. Its high time for a realistic diplomatic solution to this dangerous and needless conflict. Is it really that important which flag flies in the Donbas?

Quote  'Is it really that important which flag flies in the Donbas'?

 

Of COURSE it is important which flag flies over the Donbas region. Ask any Ukrainian citizen who lives there and has roots going back hundreds of years.

 

If you think that President Zelensky, who was freely elected as President of the Sovereign country of the Ukraine, should have no right or control over any peace talks, who do you think should do it? The president of the country which invaded the Ukraine and started the whole thing off?

[Summerinsiam]

Of course it is important to Ukrainians, but to the wider world much less so. It is certainly not important enough to risk nuclear armageddon over. The vast majority of the world's citizenry would agree on that. Yes, he should have a say in peace talks but his should not be the sole voice as it is a global issue. He should be realistic about losing some territory. He should cede Crimea which historically was Russian anyway until Krushchev got drunk. There must be strings attached to the endless support.

[James105]

On 11/20/2022 at 6:12 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Do the long suffering British populace support that, while prices increase and I believe the Chancellor just promised tax increases?

 

 

No.  Ukraine and Russia were the 2 most corrupt regimes in Europe prior to this war and I suspect only a small percentage of that money will end up where it's needed, just like all the other foreign aid provided to corrupt countries around the world.   Call me a cynic if you will, but with the constant injection of cash from UK/USA etc to Ukraine, Russia making bank from oil/gas being sold in rubles, I'm not seeing much of an incentive for either side to get around the negotiating table as they are making lots of money from this, and let's not pretend that either of their leaders really "care" about their people.   Ukraine have also joined Spain/Portugal to host the 2030 world cup even though they are thousands of miles away from Spain/Portugal which makes me wonder where their priorities are at, or if they are just being opportunistic with the sympathy they have garnered by the propaganda painting them as the "good guys", when the reality, as always, will be somewhat greyer.    

 

I have sympathy for the Russian and Ukrainian people of course who didn't ask for this nor will see any of this money (they are just pawns after all), but I feel the West is, once again, being played.   

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Summerinsiam said:

Of course it is important to Ukrainians, but to the wider world much less so. It is certainly not important enough to risk nuclear armageddon over. The vast majority of the world's citizenry would agree on that. Yes, he should have a say in peace talks but his should not be the sole voice as it is a global issue. He should be realistic about losing some territory. He should cede Crimea which historically was Russian anyway until Krushchev got drunk. There must be strings attached to the endless support.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

 

In 1783, the Russian Empire annexed Crimea after an earlier war with Turkey. Crimea's strategic position led to the 1854 Crimean War and many short lived regimes following the 1917 Russian Revolution. When the Bolsheviks secured Crimea it became an autonomous soviet republic within Russia. During World War II, Crimea was downgraded to an oblast. In 1944 Crimean Tatars were ethnically cleansed and deported under the orders of Joseph Stalin, in what has been described as a cultural genocide. The USSR transferred Crimea to Ukraine on the 300th anniversary of the Pereyaslav Treaty in 1954.

After Ukrainian independence in 1991 the central government and Crimea clashed, with the region being granted more autonomy. The Soviet fleet in Crimea was also in contention but a 1997 treaty allowed Russia to continue basing its fleet in Sevastopol. In 2014, the Russians occupied the peninsula and organized an illegal referendum in support of Russian annexation, but most countries recognize Crimea as Ukrainian territory.

 

Nuclear Armageddon has ONLY been threatened by Putin, and not necessarily by the Russian military commanders who DO understand what it means, and to them personally.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

Why are you not condemning the illegal invasion of a peaceful sovereign country?

Leaving aside the question of legality, I do not recall that the Ukraine was "peaceful" for a number of years, before the invasion.

[ozimoron]

13 hours ago, James105 said:

No.  Ukraine and Russia were the 2 most corrupt regimes in Europe prior to this war and I suspect only a small percentage of that money will end up where it's needed, just like all the other foreign aid provided to corrupt countries around the world.   Call me a cynic if you will, but with the constant injection of cash from UK/USA etc to Ukraine, Russia making bank from oil/gas being sold in rubles, I'm not seeing much of an incentive for either side to get around the negotiating table as they are making lots of money from this, and let's not pretend that either of their leaders really "care" about their people.   Ukraine have also joined Spain/Portugal to host the 2030 world cup even though they are thousands of miles away from Spain/Portugal which makes me wonder where their priorities are at, or if they are just being opportunistic with the sympathy they have garnered by the propaganda painting them as the "good guys", when the reality, as always, will be somewhat greyer.    

 

I have sympathy for the Russian and Ukrainian people of course who didn't ask for this nor will see any of this money (they are just pawns after all), but I feel the West is, once again, being played.   

Most of the "money" was weapons.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Leaving aside the question of legality, I do not recall that the Ukraine was "peaceful" for a number of years, before the invasion.

It wasn't because Russia invaded Crimea in 2014.

[ozimoron]

Stunning that anybody should support Russia after committing countless war crimes.

Edited November 21, 2022 by ozimoron

[Summerinsiam]

Pushing for a diplomatic compromise, to safeguard global security, does not equate to supporting Russia and their illegal invasion. Rightly so it has been condemned. However, everything is not black and white despite the propoganda. There must be conditions attached to the Ukrainian aid and Zelensky must tone down his maximalist language and get real. Many western leaders are tiring of it. Russia will never pay reparations for instance. Ukraine will never be allowed to join Nato. Before the invasion he was an unpopular comedian who to the west's consternation was failing to implement the Minsk agreement. Had he done so we might not be where we are today. Neither side can fulfill their stated objectives and should recognise so. The war must end with a political and diplomatic solution.

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Summerinsiam said:

Pushing for a diplomatic compromise, to safeguard global security, does not equate to supporting Russia and their illegal invasion. Rightly so it has been condemned. However, everything is not black and white despite the propoganda. There must be conditions attached to the Ukrainian aid and Zelensky must tone down his maximalist language and get real. Many western leaders are tiring of it. Russia will never pay reparations for instance. Ukraine will never be allowed to join Nato. Before the invasion he was an unpopular comedian who to the west's consternation was failing to implement the Minsk agreement. Had he done so we might not be where we are today. Neither side can fulfill their stated objectives and should recognise so. The war must end with a political and diplomatic solution.

You should read up a little more on Minsk 2 and why that failed

[internationalism]

On 11/20/2022 at 5:37 PM, Bkk Brian said:

Did Boris announce visits beforehand? Do any P.M's announce beforehand? You may want to think about why.

yes, the March visit from 3 european prime ministers was officially announced:

"The European Union said the politicians were not carrying any particular mandate, but that leaders in Brussels were aware of the trip, as it was mentioned during an informal EU summit in Versailles, France, last week.

Poland's Deputy Foreign Minister Marcin Przydacz admitted the trip was risky, but said it was "worth taking for the sake of values". He said they had told the Russians the visit was taking place. "

 

also 3 leaders from france, germany and italy in June

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germanys-scholz-travel-kyiv-with-macron-draghi-before-g7-bild-am-sonntag-2022-06-11/

 

so that sudden Sunak's visit, just 4 days after polish "accident" might have something to do with it.  But Sunak's statement is very laconic, even if they must have discussed it

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Summerinsiam said:

Pushing for a diplomatic compromise, to safeguard global security, does not equate to supporting Russia and their illegal invasion. Rightly so it has been condemned. However, everything is not black and white despite the propoganda. There must be conditions attached to the Ukrainian aid and Zelensky must tone down his maximalist language and get real. Many western leaders are tiring of it. Russia will never pay reparations for instance. Ukraine will never be allowed to join Nato. Before the invasion he was an unpopular comedian who to the west's consternation was failing to implement the Minsk agreement. Had he done so we might not be where we are today. Neither side can fulfill their stated objectives and should recognise so. The war must end with a political and diplomatic solution.

The world will never reward a war criminal. Russia will soon be looking for a diplomatic way out on Ukrainian terms, not the other way round.