Do we all have to be activists these days or at least do we have to support those activists?

[Fat is a type of crazy]

18 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes!

 

Let's take the football players, just as one example.

When they go back to their home countries and have dinner with their friends, how many of them do you think will bring up the rights of the gay people in Qatar? How many will discuss with their friends what they can actively do to support those people? Like: Let's donate money to that xyz organization over there. I met [insert name] and we should really support him.

How many of these virtue-signaling players will even spend 10 minutes of their time to actually do something - when no camera is there to see it?

Obviously I/we will never really know. But I would be very surprised if that is really an issue for even 10% of the people who now pretend it is important.

But what is the problem even if people do have mixed motives. No one is perfect.  I have rolled my eyes at the likes of George Clooney, Sting, and Bono as they have flounced around doing good but the fact is - they have done good. The soccer players may have got caught up in the moment to do good - made the news - got people to think about stuff - put FIFA and the Qatari government on the back foot - what's not to like. 

The example of extremely wealthy soccer players, on the highest of high profile stages, doesn't do justice to the other 99.9 per cent of protesters and activists who don't get a dollar or kudos, and just annoy both those who they are fighting against, and the cynical section of the public who don't believe in their sincerity. I am not sure if they believe in sincerity at all. 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and posts trolling about prostitution have been removed.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, JCauto said:

As to your laughable attempt to move the goalposts, the Right is what has moved towards fascism far far far more than the Left has moved anywhere near communism.

LOL. The extreme woke movement is far larger, IMO, than the numbers moving towards fascism, which are not mainstream, despite the left's desire to paint all that are not on their side as fascists.

For proof I note that I have to be extremely careful what I say now, as any that hear me could be woke and take offense. This is certainly a huge turnaround from when I was a young man.

IMO the wokists dominate society now and right wing opinion is muted.

 

NB. I do not live in America.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

But what is the problem even if people do have mixed motives. No one is perfect.  I have rolled my eyes at the likes of George Clooney, Sting, and Bono as they have flounced around doing good but the fact is - they have done good. The soccer players may have got caught up in the moment to do good - made the news - got people to think about stuff - put FIFA and the Qatari government on the back foot - what's not to like. 

The example of extremely wealthy soccer players, on the highest of high profile stages, doesn't do justice to the other 99.9 per cent of protesters and activists who don't get a dollar or kudos, and just annoy both those who they are fighting against, and the cynical section of the public who don't believe in their sincerity. I am not sure if they believe in sincerity at all. 

 

George Clooney has done "good"??????????????

Not to my knowledge. Do tell.

 

Sting and Bono may have done so, but as I automatically ignore anything to do with either of them ( dislike their music ), I will not claim any knowledge about them.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, JCauto said:

I am an activist - I do get in my petrol car to drive to the airport to fly to Southeast Asia where I work in issues related to climate change. Does this mean I should row a boat across the Pacific to avoid the carbon emissions? Of course not, that would be senseless in terms of efficiency.

While your work may require you to be present in a different country, IMO NONE of the current "conferences" need to be attended in person. With modern communications they can be done remotely.

However, some of us know why they fly hundreds of participants to exotic locations like Sharm el Sheikh, and it's not for the talking, 555555555.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

George Clooney has done "good"??????????????

Not to my knowledge. Do tell.

 

Sting and Bono may have done so, but as I automatically ignore anything to do with either of them ( dislike their music ), I will not claim any knowledge about them.

Took action on a humanitarian crisis in South Sudan that followed the split with Sudan . This was a high profile interaction that made a difference.

Has been involved in climate change efforts. His wife gets involved with such issues too.

Fair to be cynical at times and call it virtue signalling by the beautiful people, see the hypocrisy in talking climate change and taking private jets, at the same time you can acknowledge that imperfect efforts can achieve good things.  Can't watch George Clooney act - doesn't do it for me. Sting's solo career 99 per cent sucked. U2 after 1983 was a bit pretentious in my opinion. They have all made a difference in this world for the better though. 

 

George Clooney's warning on South Sudan | CNN

[spidermike007]

Yes, Qatar is as bad as China. And no, we don't have to concern ourselves with what most activists are doing. Most "activists" these days are merely netizens. Getting up off your bum and actually doing something is far different than moaning, groaning and criticizing on social media. For me, that amounts to next to zero, in terms of courage. Being outraged is simply participating in victim culture, and weak PC nonsense, which is degrading society and preformed mostly by weaklings.

 

Being a real activist, who makes an honest effort to support a valid cause, is a whole different level of courage and conviction. 

 

The real danger of social media is not that you might say the wrong thing to the wrong person. The real danger is the fact that one determined person with nothing else to do can find your name, your phone number, your address, your parents’ address, your third-cousin’s Twitter, your boss, your co-worker, your ex-lover, the ex-lover you briefly forgot about and use all this information to systematically tear your life apart piece by piece. But why would someone go through so much trouble to do that? Because it was probably not that hard. There’s a good chance your own web presence coupled with some inventive searches led them straight down the trail to destroying your social life, your relationships and your career all in one fell swoop.

 

There are many good reasons why I do not have much use for social media. I consider it to be absolutely toxic. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by spidermike007

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. The extreme woke movement is far larger, IMO, than the numbers moving towards fascism, which are not mainstream, despite the left's desire to paint all that are not on their side as fascists.

For proof I note that I have to be extremely careful what I say now, as any that hear me could be woke and take offense. This is certainly a huge turnaround from when I was a young man.

IMO the wokists dominate society now and right wing opinion is muted.

 

NB. I do not live in America.

I don't know which is worse. But it seems clear to me that on both sides the extremists try to bring more people from the center to the edges.

And the language and accusations on both sides get worse all the time.

Most of the time I read news in the Guardian. They are on the left. And sometimes they call people who are slightly right leaning "radical rightwing".

On the other hand, in my YouTube feed are often videos from conservatives (especially anti woke). And what do they do? They pretend everybody left of center is radical left and crazy woke.

Personally I don't like the radical left and I don't like the radical right. Both are bad.

Is there still a center?

When the left calls you rightwing and the right call you leftwing what are you? It must be hard for "normal", not radical people, to live in such environments like US universities.

 

It seems to me this is not yet a problem in Thailand. But it certainly is a problem especially in northern America. And it seems to get worse. In a way it is funny to see them fight each other. But obviously what the USA does has lots of consequences for the rest of the world. Somehow it seems to me the situation is getting worse...

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't know which is worse. But it seems clear to me that on both sides the extremists try to bring more people from the center to the edges.

And the language and accusations on both sides get worse all the time.

Most of the time I read news in the Guardian. They are on the left. And sometimes they call people who are slightly right leaning "radical rightwing".

On the other hand, in my YouTube feed are often videos from conservatives (especially anti woke). And what do they do? They pretend everybody left of center is radical left and crazy woke.

Personally I don't like the radical left and I don't like the radical right. Both are bad.

Is there still a center?

When the left calls you rightwing and the right call you leftwing what are you? It must be hard for "normal", not radical people, to live in such environments like US universities.

 

It seems to me this is not yet a problem in Thailand. But it certainly is a problem especially in northern America. And it seems to get worse. In a way it is funny to see them fight each other. But obviously what the USA does has lots of consequences for the rest of the world. Somehow it seems to me the situation is getting worse...

 

I think you need to support your claim that "they call people who are slightly right leaning "radical rightwing". I'm calling BS but willing to be educated.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I think you need to support your claim that "they call people who are slightly right leaning "radical rightwing". I'm calling BS but willing to be educated.

Just read a few opinion pieces in The Guardian and it won't take long before you read these words.

I.e. yesterday or so there was an article about Twitter.

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Just read a few opinion pieces in The Guardian and it won't take long before you read these words.

I.e. yesterday or so there was an article about Twitter.

Not good enough. Lack of a link to a divisive claim is trolling and that is not just my opinion, an issue that I'm sure you're well acquainted with. If not, then I suggest you do so.

Edited November 26, 2022 by ozimoron

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't know which is worse. But it seems clear to me that on both sides the extremists try to bring more people from the center to the edges.

And the language and accusations on both sides get worse all the time.

Most of the time I read news in the Guardian. They are on the left. And sometimes they call people who are slightly right leaning "radical rightwing".

On the other hand, in my YouTube feed are often videos from conservatives (especially anti woke). And what do they do? They pretend everybody left of center is radical left and crazy woke.

Personally I don't like the radical left and I don't like the radical right. Both are bad.

Is there still a center?

When the left calls you rightwing and the right call you leftwing what are you? It must be hard for "normal", not radical people, to live in such environments like US universities.

 

It seems to me this is not yet a problem in Thailand. But it certainly is a problem especially in northern America. And it seems to get worse. In a way it is funny to see them fight each other. But obviously what the USA does has lots of consequences for the rest of the world. Somehow it seems to me the situation is getting worse...

 

True. I am a centrist dem. Some of my conservative friends refer to me as a liberal. I am anything but liberal. I ask them how many liberals do you know, who support the death penalty? How many who oppose abortion after the first trimester, except for extreme circumstances? They can't see the nuance. Black or white. No gray areas for them. I don't call them fascists. I call them conservative. Let us remain decent. Let us embrace dignity and respect. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by spidermike007

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The real danger is the fact that one determined person with nothing else to do can find your name, your phone number, your address, your parents’ address, your third-cousin’s Twitter, your boss, your co-worker, your ex-lover, the ex-lover you briefly forgot about and use all this information to systematically tear your life apart piece by piece.

Do people actually put all that stuff on social media? If so I'm boggled. Even if they hacked this site all they'll get is my e mail address. I'm well aware that everything we put on line is available to be read by people we don't know, and post accordingly.

I've often referenced a past wife on here, but never her name. If someone wanted to read my thousands of posts on here, they could put together a profile, but it wouldn't do them much good.

[thaibeachlovers]

38 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

True. I am a centrist dem. Some of my conservative friends refer to me as a liberal. I am anything but liberal. I ask them how many liberals do you know, who support the death penalty? How many who oppose abortion after the first trimester, except for extreme circumstances? They can't see the nuance. Black or white. No gray areas for them. I don't call them fascists. I call them conservative. Let us remain decent. Let us embrace dignity and respect. 

I'd like to see anyone classify me politically- socialist on rich people and corporations, conservative on immigration and dole bludgers, supported Trump because he was against her, but preferred Bernie as he wanted to do Wall Street, conflicted on abortion- last resort- not contraception, but too many people on the planet so abortion on demand at any stage is OK, don't believe we can do anything about climate change, but want to stop all pollution, want to get away from petrol cars, but only with hydrogen- want nothing to do with battery cars, don't care about renewable energy with windmills or solar, but want nuclear, oppose the death penalty, but want jail for life without parole for third offence, etc.

There is more, but you get the picture.

Edited November 26, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[OneMoreFarang]

45 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do people actually put all that stuff on social media? If so I'm boggled. Even if they hacked this site all they'll get is my e mail address. I'm well aware that everything we put on line is available to be read by people we don't know, and post accordingly.

I've often referenced a past wife on here, but never her name. If someone wanted to read my thousands of posts on here, they could put together a profile, but it wouldn't do them much good.

Lots of people use the same username on many sites. And some people even use the same passwords.

I remember there is somewhere a search page where you can enter a name like thaibeachlover and it would search hundreds of places if that username is used. Maybe some local forum, maybe some political forum, maybe some hobby site, all the information adds up.

 

Personally, I don't post too many personal information. But things like my job, interests, region where I live, motorcycles, etc. add up and I am sure if someone would really try it would be possible to find me just with the information on this forum. 

[OneMoreFarang]

48 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd like to see anyone classify me politically- socialist on rich people and corporations, conservative on immigration and dole bludgers, supported Trump because he was against her, but preferred Bernie as he wanted to do Wall Street, conflicted on abortion- last resort- not contraception, but too many people on the planet so abortion on demand at any stage is OK, don't believe we can do anything about climate change, but want to stop all pollution, want to get away from petrol cars, but only with hydrogen- want nothing to do with battery cars, don't care about renewable energy with windmills or solar, but want nuclear, oppose the death penalty, but want jail for life without parole for third offence, etc.

There is more, but you get the picture.

You are obviously a traitor for the left.

And a traitor for the right.

Make up your mind, you can't just float in the middle. Traitor! ???? 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Just read a few opinion pieces in The Guardian and it won't take long before you read these words.

I.e. yesterday or so there was an article about Twitter.

I just used their search function.

Ok, there are fewer articles than I thought which use exactly those words. Here is one of them:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/25/all-revolutions-devour-their-own-children-just-look-at-brexiters

[JCauto]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. The extreme woke movement is far larger, IMO, than the numbers moving towards fascism, which are not mainstream, despite the left's desire to paint all that are not on their side as fascists.

For proof I note that I have to be extremely careful what I say now, as any that hear me could be woke and take offense. This is certainly a huge turnaround from when I was a young man.

IMO the wokists dominate society now and right wing opinion is muted.

 

NB. I do not live in America.

Perhaps you're confused? "Wokeism" or whatever other thing you wish to call it is not a political movement. It's not got an economic policy or outlook. Nobody is running in the "Woke" Party. It doesn't sit somewhere on the political spectrum between Communism and Fascism. There is no leadership council or caucus.

What being "woke" is about it recognition of a broader view of history and individual's rights to determine how they wish to express themselves (often sexually, but also in terms of being able to be seen and heard on the public stage) and how they wish to be addressed by others. The broader view of history is one that brings into focus the people who had been usually left out because they were society's "losers", people of colour, Jews, etc. Jews for example fought long and hard to have the Holocaust memorialized and written into history textbooks because they knew that otherwise it would get lost in the sands of time and they would have to face the horrors again. You can now see that a majority of young people in the USA now do not know about the Holocaust or its scope, hence they're now open to being manipulated by anti-semites like Kanye West and gleefully jump on that train without understanding why this is wrong. This is why history is important, and why people whom you refer to as "woke" are fighting to have a clearer and truer history that doesn't omit things like slavery and the disenfranchisement of black people and how that contributes to their current problems within that society. 

So yes, fortunately, we're finally becoming a bit more of an enlightened society in terms of recognizing the past injustice that has been visited on the vulnerable. And it has spread even to the point where you, thaibeachlovers, have to be careful in what you say since you can no longer freely offend or hurt someone by carelessly bringing up things that demonstrably affect them. However, I am guessing that this isn't something that has ruined your life or caused you anything other than the most minor of inconveniences. And if you actually HAVE encountered a "Woke" person who corrected you on their correct pronoun, I'm guessing you probably did, just because you're probably a decent person who would be polite to the other person you were talking to. That's really what the core of "Wokeism" is - being considerate to other people and taking their situation into account so you don't accidentally offend them. No wonder this is such a horrible terrible thing that you equate it to Communism! The entire core of Conservatism these days is based entirely on "pishing off the Libs" rather than any coherent policy (hard to have coherent policy when you have individual autocrats spouting off with whatever pops into their head) hence you have extended this to the point of being a political philosophy somehow. It would be laughable if it didn't expose the anger and hatred that underlies the entire Right.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, JCauto said:

No wonder this is such a horrible terrible thing that you equate it to Communism!

Stop lying! I never mentioned communism in the post you quoted.

Edited November 26, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, JCauto said:

And if you actually HAVE encountered a "Woke" person who corrected you on their correct pronoun,

Maybe have a look at this video. I think it's a wonderful example of the behavior of "the woke".

And Peter Boghossian gets already harassed for asking questions. He doesn't make any statement about what they discuss.

 

 

[JCauto]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Stop lying! I never mentioned communism in the post you quoted.

We're having a conversation, no? I'm not playing "gotcha", you posited an argument that had two sides, one was Right, the other was "Woke". While most people who are "Woke" are Left, being "Woke" is not a political philosophy. That was my point. Apologize if you feel that I was trying to play games, because I wasn't.

[thaibeachlovers]

24 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Lots of people use the same username on many sites. And some people even use the same passwords.

I remember there is somewhere a search page where you can enter a name like thaibeachlover and it would search hundreds of places if that username is used. Maybe some local forum, maybe some political forum, maybe some hobby site, all the information adds up.

 

Personally, I don't post too many personal information. But things like my job, interests, region where I live, motorcycles, etc. add up and I am sure if someone would really try it would be possible to find me just with the information on this forum. 

I used to google thaibeachlovers to see what came up, and there was someone out there that was impersonating me on different websites with stupid posts. On one forum he said I was looking for a present for my girlfriend under 100 baht! He also did hotel reviews under my username.

I know who it was as I got him banned off Thorntree for impersonating a mod to fool me. He was also posting on TVF as his own username, but vanished years ago. I'd probably recognise him under a different username as he had a certain style. He certainly came back on Thorntree under new usernames, but I was able to get him kicked off every time as I knew whom it was.

[JCauto]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe have a look at this video. I think it's a wonderful example of the behavior of "the woke".

And Peter Boghossian gets already harassed for asking questions. He doesn't make any statement about what they discuss.

 

Sure, we can post videos of idiots from either side from now until the earth finally starts cooling again but it's not really an argument or debate point. It just shows there are extremists and people who are confused on both sides, particularly the further you get towards the extremes. I think you already made that point. I don't need to watch Jordan Peterson videos or other such things here as counterpoints to actual written words.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe have a look at this video. I think it's a wonderful example of the behavior of "the woke".

And Peter Boghossian gets already harassed for asking questions. He doesn't make any statement about what they discuss.

 

 

I think I saw a different VDO about same thing ages ago. Thing I noticed was how unattractive the females were.

I think I'd enjoy one having a go at me, as I know what I'd do back.

[OneMoreFarang]

8 minutes ago, JCauto said:

Sure, we can post videos of idiots from either side from now until the earth finally starts cooling again but it's not really an argument or debate point. It just shows there are extremists and people who are confused on both sides, particularly the further you get towards the extremes. I think you already made that point. I don't need to watch Jordan Peterson videos or other such things here as counterpoints to actual written words.

That is a video from an American university and I am sure in average these people are smarter than many others. But at the same time they are full of <deleted>. I just watched part of it again: What if someone gets triggered? Do you have an emotional support person here?

What? Are you nuts? 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think I saw a different VDO about same thing ages ago. Thing I noticed was how unattractive the females were.

I think I'd enjoy one having a go at me, as I know what I'd do back.

Oh, just looked at it and not the same incident, but same situation of a bunch of entitled young people thinking they know it all and harassing someone they assume to be on the wrong end of the spectrum, because ( old ) white man saying it.

I think he was having a hard time not openly mocking the idiots.

IMO every time they opened their mouths they displayed how ignorant they were, and these people are supposed to be intelligent. If that is the future, humanity is doomed, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That is a video from an American university and I am sure in average these people are smarter than many others. But at the same time they are full of <deleted>. I just watched part of it again: What if someone gets triggered? Do you have an emotional support person here?

What? Are you nuts? 

Looking at that, I'd almost wish for WW3 so that guy at right hand end ( looking a screen ) could be conscripted.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Looking at that, I'd almost wish for WW3 so that guy at right hand end ( looking a screen ) could be conscripted.

Don't forget that now they all want to be equal. The women or half/half or whatever should obviously also be conscripted. Or does that go too far for those equal opportunity activists?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Don't forget that now they all want to be equal. The women or half/half or whatever should obviously also be conscripted. Or does that go too far for those equal opportunity activists?

They want to be more than equal.

 

In NZ considering vote for 16 year old, but they can't be conscripted! In the opinion of many- if old enough to vote, old enough to die in a war.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They want to be more than equal.

 

In NZ considering vote for 16 year old, but they can't be conscripted! In the opinion of many- if old enough to vote, old enough to die in a war.

16 is old enough to have full legal rights but not old enough to die in a war. Could you imagine the public outcry if 16 year olds were drafted or recruited into the army to fight a war?

 

Your opposition to 16 years getting the vote is that young people mostly vote left wing. I don't think I need to provide a link to prove what should be very common knowledge among the politically aware but if you insist, I will.