vinny41 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: If you discount the Irish and Scottish votes in favour of leave then you have to discount those who voted remain. You can’t count the votes for one side and not the other, that’s just utter nonsense. Plus you appear to be discounting the Welsh vote in those numbers… Welsh votes both leave and remain haven't been discounted I have seen many posts on here that state It was England that forced the UK to leave the EU clearly this is incorrect without the Scots and Irish leave votes the Uk would have remained in the EU 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, vinny41 said: Welsh votes both leave and remain haven't been discounted I have seen many posts on here that state It was England that forced the UK to leave the EU clearly this is incorrect without the Scots and Irish leave votes the Uk would have remained in the EU You can’t just count their leave votes and not remain. The reason brexit won was the English and Welsh voted for leave. The majority of Scots and Irish voted remain. Edited November 26, 2022 by Bluespunk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: You can’t just count their leave votes and not remain. The reason brexit won was the English and Welsh voted for leave. The majority of Scots and Irish voted remain. Yes but without the Scots and Irish leave votes the UK would have remained as part of the EU In an earlier post you posted that the Scots vote was ignored that is incorrect as we know over 1,018,322 people in Scotland voted to leave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, vinny41 said: Yes but without the Scots and Irish leave votes the UK would have remained as part of the EU In an earlier post you posted that the Scots vote was ignored that is incorrect as we know over 1,018,322 people in Scotland voted to leave 62% voted remain in Scotland-the vast majority. The country’s choice was ignored. And again, you cannot only count the votes for one side of the vote. The English vote was nearly 2 million more for leave. That’s why leave won the vote. Edited November 26, 2022 by Bluespunk Missing the inserted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Just now, Bluespunk said: 62% voted remain in Scotland-the vast majority. The country’s choice was ignored. And again, you cannot only count the votes for one side of vote. If they were taking part in a Scottish only vote yes the majority of voters in Scotland were ignored but everyone know is was an UK and Gibraltar poll and everyone know the side that received the most votes would win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Anyone any good at working out percentages ? An electorate of 3 987 112 3 987 112 Scottish people were eligible to vote 1 661 191 of Scottish people voted to Remain in the E,U What would that be in percentage terms ? My maths is terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 1 minute ago, vinny41 said: If they were taking part in a Scottish only vote yes the majority of voters in Scotland were ignored but everyone know is was an UK and Gibraltar poll and everyone know the side that received the most votes would win No one is disputing the side with the most votes won. The leave vote won because of the near 2 million majority in favour of leave in England. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puchooay Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: The leave vote won because of the near 2 million majority in favour of leave in England. The leave vote won as the UK voted 52 to 48% to leave. England did not get a vote. Neither did Wales, Scotland or N.Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: Anyone any good at working out percentages ? An electorate of 3 987 112 3 987 112 Scottish people were eligible to vote 1 661 191 of Scottish people voted to Remain in the E,U What would that be in percentage terms ? My maths is terrible 38981662 English eligible, 15187583 voted leave. What percentage would that be? Aren't you one of the people that said the whole of the UK voted to leave so a division is not important? Except of course when you think it suits your argument. Edited November 26, 2022 by stevenl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: No one is disputing the side with the most votes won. The leave vote won because of the near 2 million majority in favour of leave in England. But they wouldn't have won if it wasn't for the Scots and Irish leave votes that pushed them over the line if those Scots and Irish leave voter had chosen to vote remain instead of leave the UK wouldn't have left even with England 2 million majority in favour of leaving In a UK national referendum every single votes counts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 1 minute ago, puchooay said: The leave vote won as the UK voted 52 to 48% to leave. England did not get a vote. Neither did Wales, Scotland or N.Ireland. Yes they did. The total of all four countries resulted in the figures you quoted. The figures that came from 4 different countries. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 1 minute ago, vinny41 said: But they wouldn't have won if it wasn't for the Scots and Irish leave votes that pushed them over the line if those Scots and Irish leave voter had chosen to vote remain instead of leave the UK wouldn't have left even with England 2 million majority in favour of leaving In a UK national referendum every single votes counts No, they wouldn’t have won if not for the near 2 million vote for leave in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phulublub Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 5 hours ago, James105 said: 2. Out of the 3,987,112 people in Scotland who were eligible to vote in the EU ref, only 1,661,191 voted to remain in the EU. The reason Scotland is no longer in the EU is because not enough Scots wanted to vote to remain in the EU. Utter baloney. Out of all those eligible to vote for Brexit in England did a majority actually vote for it? No, they did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puchooay Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Bluespunk said: Yes they did. The total of all four countries resulted in the figures you quoted. The figures that came from 4 different countries. UK was the member state. The vote was by the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: Anyone any good at working out percentages ? An electorate of 3 987 112 3 987 112 Scottish people were eligible to vote 1 661 191 of Scottish people voted to Remain in the E,U What would that be in percentage terms ? My maths is terrible Wouldn't that be about 45 % of Scottish people (eligible voters) voted to Remain in the E.U. Less than half ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Just now, puchooay said: UK was the member state. The vote was by the UK. It was by the four countries that make up the U.K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phulublub Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 5 hours ago, puchooay said: What was your point? That many (including me) voted for Scotland to remain part of the UK precisely because leaving the UK would also mean leaving the EU. PH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phulublub Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 22 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: Anyone any good at working out percentages ? An electorate of 3 987 112 3 987 112 Scottish people were eligible to vote 1 661 191 of Scottish people voted to Remain in the E,U What would that be in percentage terms ? My maths is terrible Oh stop with the picking and choosing How many were eligible to vote in the UK? How many voted to leave? what would that be in percentgae terms? NOT a majority of that I am absolutely certain. PH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phulublub Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 13 minutes ago, puchooay said: The leave vote won as the UK voted 52 to 48% to leave. England did not get a vote. Neither did Wales, Scotland or N.Ireland. It did. --- A result that Nigel Farage said would not be decisive. PH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phulublub Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 10 minutes ago, puchooay said: UK was the member state. The vote was by the UK. Again making my point about the 2014 referendum and the goalposts not just being moved on the ptich but to an entirely different arena. THAT is what the thread is about. PH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: No, they wouldn’t have won if not for the near 2 million vote for leave in England. Leave total vote was 17,410,742 remain total vote was 16,141,241 Scots and Irish combined leave votes were 1,367,764 deducted 1,367764 from 17,410,742 would give leave a combined total of 16,042,978 now add 1,367,764 to the remain total which would give remain a combined total of 17,509,005 which would have ended with a combined majority vote of 1,466,027 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phulublub Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: Wouldn't that be about 45 % of Scottish people (eligible voters) voted to Remain in the E.U. Less than half ? 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum Choice Votes % Leave the European Union 17,410,742 51.89 Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,241 48.11 Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92 Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08 Total votes 33,577,342 100.00 Registered voters/turnout 46,500,001 72.21 Source: Electoral Commission[308] So, using your own logic, of the total electorate of 46.5 million, 17.4 million voted to leave. Under 38%. PH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Just now, vinny41 said: Leave total vote was 17,410,742 remain total vote was 16,141,241 Scots and Irish combined leave votes were 1,367,764 deducted 1,367764 from 17,410,742 would give leave a combined total of 16,042,978 now add 1,367,764 to the remain total which would give remain a combined total of 17,509,005 which would have ended with a combined majority vote of 1,466,027 Again, you cannot count the votes for one side alone. And yet again, maths 101, the leave vote won because nearly 2 million more English voted leave than remain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, Phulublub said: 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum Choice Votes % Leave the European Union 17,410,742 51.89 Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,241 48.11 Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92 Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08 Total votes 33,577,342 100.00 Registered voters/turnout 46,500,001 72.21 Source: Electoral Commission[308] So, using your own logic, of the total electorate of 46.5 million, 17.4 million voted to leave. Under 38%. PH We are talking about Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Bluespunk said: Again, you cannot count the votes for one side alone. And yet again, maths 101, the leave vote won because nearly 2 million more English voted leave than remain. Is there a law that you can't count the votes for one side alone and if you covert the leave votes of Scotland and Ireland to remain votes combined with the remain votes of the 5 countries that took part in the UK and Gibraltar then remain would have won As I said in a UK and Gibraltar votes count and the combined votes of Scotland and Northern Ireland do make a huge difference to the overall total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, vinny41 said: Is there a law that you can't count the votes for one side alone and if you covert the leave votes of Scotland and Ireland to remain votes combined with the remain votes of the 5 countries that took part in the UK and Gibraltar then remain would have won As I said in a UK and Gibraltar votes count and the combined votes of Scotland and Northern Ireland do make a huge difference to the overall total You can be as creative as you like and count only votes that will support the opinion you wish to be true. However it does not change the fact that leave happened because of the English leave vote. It was an insurmountable number that proved decisive. Edited November 26, 2022 by Bluespunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puchooay Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 26 minutes ago, Phulublub said: That many (including me) voted for Scotland to remain part of the UK precisely because leaving the UK would also mean leaving the EU. PH No according to SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: You can be as creative as you like and count only votes that will support the opinion you wish to be true. However it does not change the fact that leave happened because of the English leave vote. It was an insurmountable number that proved decisive. And I have proved that it was the combined votes of Scotland and Irish Leavers voters that made the difference in leave's overall result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Just now, vinny41 said: And I have proved that it was the combined votes of Scotland and Irish Leavers voters that made the difference in leave's overall result And I have repeatedly pointed out why that argument is bogus, as you cannot count only one set of votes and that the near 2 million English majority in favour of leave was the decisive number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: And I have repeatedly pointed out why that argument is bogus, as you cannot count only one set of votes and that the near 2 million English majority in favour of leave was the decisive number. Have to agree to disagree if for some reason all the Scots and Irish leave voting slips were disqualified they the UK would have remained as part of the EU 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now