Biden says he'll renew push for assault weapons ban following spate of mass shootings

[Scott]

 

WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden said Thursday he would make a renewed effort to enact a ban on assault-style rifles following a wave of mass shootings that have again put a spotlight on the nation’s gun laws.

Speaking to reporters during a visit to a fire station on Thanksgiving morning, the president reiterated his long-standing argument that such weapons are a societal menace and should not be sold.

“The idea that we still allow semi-automatic weapons to be purchased is sick,” he said while greeting firefighters in Nantucket, Massachusetts, where he and his family are spending the Thanksgiving holiday. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-say-renew-push-assault-weapons-ban-spate-mass-shootings-rcna58664

[ozimoron]

Biden is obviously planning to add this as an election issue and capitalize on the GOP's refusal to sign on.

[Bluespunk]

Good man. 

[Bkk Brian]

KEY FINDINGS Assault weapons and high-capacity magazines are frequently used in mass shootings, resulting in more deaths and injuries.

https://everytownresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/07/EFGV02_Assault-Weapons-and-High-Capacity-Magazines_Rd2_6-1.pdf

 

 

Myth

Assault weapons are not deadlier than other firearms.

 

Fact

Assault weapons are generally high-powered semiautomatic firearms where each round has up to four times the muzzle velocity of a handgun round. This means that each round from an assault weapon inflicts greater damage to the human body than a round from a typical handgun. Assault weapons are generally designed to fire rounds at a greater rate than other firearms, and when combined with high-capacity magazines, they enable a shooter to fire more rounds over a short period.

[MrJ2U]

What's new.

 

They've been saying the same thing for 20 + years. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, MrJ2U said:

What's new.

 

They've been saying the same thing for 20 + years. 

The US didn't have 600 mass shootings a year, 20 years ago.

[MrJ2U]

Just now, ozimoron said:

The US didn't have 600 mass shootings a year, 20 years ago.

I don't know how many.  But they've been saying the same thing after each one.

 

2002 was a lean year, only 3 mass shootings.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2000–2009)

[Hanaguma]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

KEY FINDINGS Assault weapons and high-capacity magazines are frequently used in mass shootings, resulting in more deaths and injuries.

https://everytownresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/07/EFGV02_Assault-Weapons-and-High-Capacity-Magazines_Rd2_6-1.pdf

 

 

Myth

Assault weapons are not deadlier than other firearms.

 

Fact

Assault weapons are generally high-powered semiautomatic firearms where each round has up to four times the muzzle velocity of a handgun round. This means that each round from an assault weapon inflicts greater damage to the human body than a round from a typical handgun. Assault weapons are generally designed to fire rounds at a greater rate than other firearms, and when combined with high-capacity magazines, they enable a shooter to fire more rounds over a short period.

This is a strawman argument. Comparing rifles and handguns is ridiculous.  How about comparing assault weapons to other long guns?  

 

Also the rate of fire is identical. One trigger pull, one bullet.   There may be small variations between types of weapons due to trigger pull length or pressure needed, but they are very small.    As for magazines, you can buy high capacity magazines for handguns as well as rifles.  

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

I don't know how many.  But they've been saying the same thing after each one.

 

2002 was a lean year, only 3 mass shootings.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2000–2009)

I think this site pretty much lays out the problem.

 

https://rockinst.org/gun-violence/mass-shooting-factsheet/

[Bkk Brian]

"Thankfully, weapons typically referred to as assault weapons or modern sporting rifles are not used in the majority of firearm homicides. However, when they are used, they have an outsized impact on injury and death."

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/download/testimony-hunter-2022-07-20

[Hanaguma]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The US didn't have 600 mass shootings a year, 20 years ago.

Yet strangely the homicide rate has been dropping since 1990.  From 9.3/100,000 people to a low of 4.4 in 2014. Ticking up recently but still showing a decrease o f 30% over the period.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Yet strangely the homicide rate has been dropping since 1990.  From 9.3/100,000 people to a low of 4.4 in 2014. Ticking up recently but still showing a decrease o f 30% over the period.

Despite all those rapists and murderers crossing over from south of the border. How do you figure?

[Bkk Brian]

Of course the benefit to the gun industry ensures that their lobbying for the right to own assault weapons is very well funded:

 

Jul 27, 2565 BE — The. Committee has learned that gun companies collected more than $1 billion over the last decade from selling military-style assault weapons

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO00/20220727/115024/HHRG-117-GO00-20220727-SD005.pdf

[Hanaguma]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

"Thankfully, weapons typically referred to as assault weapons or modern sporting rifles are not used in the majority of firearm homicides. However, when they are used, they have an outsized impact on injury and death."

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/download/testimony-hunter-2022-07-20

Yes, and.... 

 

they are used in 3% of firearms homicides.  Of course they are more lethal than handguns when used.  ALL rifles and shotguns display these characteristics. They are not exclusive to what people call "assault weapons". 

 

"Assault weapons" use the same ammunition as regular hunting rifles and semi auto rifles.  Unless you want to ban EVERY firearm that shoots a .223 round or 5.56mm or higher, this is a pointless argument to make. 

[Bkk Brian]

What makes the AR-15 style rifle the weapon of choice for mass shooters?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ar-15-mass-shootings-60-minutes-2022-05-29/

[Credo]

Having been not-too-seriously wounded in a shooting many years ago and having been caught in the crossfire of an assault style rifle, all I can say is that it's extremely hard to take any evasive action facing an assault-style rifle.  

 

Any gun that has the ability to do what the assault-style does has no place anywhere except a war zone.  They have no purpose except to kill large numbers of people very quickly.   

[Hanaguma]

Statistic show that more people were beaten to death with bare hands in 2021 than were killed by rifles (including assault weapons). Twice as many were stabbed to death.  Do we ban hands and knives too?

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Statistic show that more people were beaten to death with bare hands in 2021 than were killed by rifles (including assault weapons). Twice as many were stabbed to death.  Do we ban hands and knives too?

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

You should look at that graph again. It's not nearly so unequivocal as you make it out to be.

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What makes the AR-15 style rifle the weapon of choice for mass shooters?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ar-15-mass-shootings-60-minutes-2022-05-29/

Except that it isn't.  Handguns are used twice as often as ALL rifles, including "assault weapons".

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

[Bkk Brian]

Estimates show that approximately one-third of public mass shooting events include the use of an assault weapon, and nearly 40 percent involve a high-capacity magazine.11 When an assault weapon and/or a high-capacity magazine is used in a public mass shooting, nearly 14 times as many people are injured, and twice as many people are killed.12 Not only are there more injuries when assault weapons are used but the types of injuries are far worse. The combined effect of the weapon’s muzzle velocity and the ballistics of the round most commonly.

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Testimony - Hunter - 2022-07-20.pdf

 

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Credo said:

Having been not-too-seriously wounded in a shooting many years ago and having been caught in the crossfire of an assault style rifle, all I can say is that it's extremely hard to take any evasive action facing an assault-style rifle.  

 

Any gun that has the ability to do what the assault-style does has no place anywhere except a war zone.  They have no purpose except to kill large numbers of people very quickly.   

How would you say that is different than a hunting rifle or sport rifle that uses the same ammunition?

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Estimates show that approximately one-third of public mass shooting events include the use of an assault weapon, and nearly 40 percent involve a high-capacity magazine.11 When an assault weapon and/or a high-capacity magazine is used in a public mass shooting, nearly 14 times as many people are injured, and twice as many people are killed.12 Not only are there more injuries when assault weapons are used but the types of injuries are far worse. The combined effect of the weapon’s muzzle velocity and the ballistics of the round most commonly.

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Testimony - Hunter - 2022-07-20.pdf

 

So how does that stat break down? There are two variables- the weapon and the high capacity magazine.  Weapons not considered "assault weapons" can use high capacity magazines.   Also how would that differentiate from a standard semi auto hunting rifle (except for the potential high capacity magazine)?

[Bkk Brian]

AR-15-style rifles have been the weapon of choice for the killers responsible for the deadliest mass shootings in American history, including the recent mass murders in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas.6

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO00/20220727/115024/HHRG-117-GO00-20220727-SD005.pdf

[BangkokReady]

47 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Fact

Assault weapons are generally high-powered semiautomatic firearms where each round has up to four times the muzzle velocity of a handgun round. This means that each round from an assault weapon inflicts greater damage to the human body than a round from a typical handgun. Assault weapons are generally designed to fire rounds at a greater rate than other firearms, and when combined with high-capacity magazines, they enable a shooter to fire more rounds over a short period.

Most hunting weapons are more powerful than handguns.  This is meaningless.

 

Myth

Assault weapons are actually a thing that you can ban.

 

Fact

There is no such thing as an assault weapon and most features can be found on weapons that would never be categorised as an "assault weapon".

 

It's just political hot air.

 

If you want to limit certain specific things, like calibre, rifle length, magazine capacity, etc., you will better be able to put an argument together.  But people like to say "assault weapon" because it triggers an emotional response.

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

AR-15-style rifles have been the weapon of choice for the killers responsible for the deadliest mass shootings in American history, including the recent mass murders in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas.6

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO00/20220727/115024/HHRG-117-GO00-20220727-SD005.pdf

...and so..... what is your point?  Handguns have been the weapon of choice for most murderers in the past century.  Your argument is akin to saying that, in order to stop drunk driving, we should ban whisky. 

[Credo]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

How would you say that is different than a hunting rifle or sport rifle that uses the same ammunition?

How is it different?  I am not sure what you mean, I grew up around guns, but was never enamored by them.  They were a tool.  They were used when needed.  All I can say is that when the assault-style rifle starts shooting, it's virtually impossible to escape.  I was in a vehicle that was riddled with bullet holes, and that happened in a matter of a few seconds.  

There is no aiming at a target, there is just a barrage of gunfire.  

 

[BangkokReady]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

How would you say that is different than a hunting rifle or sport rifle that uses the same ammunition?

Since I'm pretty sure that you can get semi-auto hunting rifles, I would imagine that only magazine capacity would make a different.  Obviously a 5-shot mag is going to cause a much slower rate of fire than a 30-shot mag.  If you can get a 30-shot semi-auto hunting rifle, it's probably not going to be that different. 

 

Perhaps people would opt for an "assault style" rifle due to manoeuvrability, but would simply opt for a hunting rifle were the former to be banned somehow.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

...and so..... what is your point?  Handguns have been the weapon of choice for most murderers in the past century.  Your argument is akin to saying that, in order to stop drunk driving, we should ban whisky. 

No but we do have drunk driving laws to stop it as much as we can.

 

You're now on ignore for the remainder of this OP. Your logic is shot............????

[Slip]

"Assault rifles", specifically the AR-15 if that's what it's called, have become weapons of domestic terror (or more specifically, weapons wielded by domestic terrorists, who it seems these days tend to be right wing at least if not full Maga).  That is why any right-thinking society would have banned them in America's position.  

Arguments about the relatively low statistical prevalence of deaths by percentage sit well with 'don't wear seat-belts as people sometimes die when they are wearing them, most people die of cancer so we shouldn't bother with other diseases', and 'it's not as bad as it used to be' style arguments.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Slip
missed a word

[ozimoron]

If the second amendment protects the right to own any gun, how did machine guns get banned for most people? And stay banned?