A question about Pensions

[Denim]

Maybe someone better informed than me can answer this question.

 

Sitting on the sofa this evening a got a bing message on Line. It was from someone called Nok ? Don't know any Noks ? Thought it was a scammer. But it turned out to be my dentist of many years ( I'm her only British patient ) and once I knew that , I was ready to help answer her question which is. ( her words )

 

Is it true that the beneficiary of a pension does not necessarily have to be a relative or someone in the family ?

 

A bit vague. I asked if it was a government pension ( old age ) or from a private company ? I thought if government probably need to be a relative but if from a private company it could be a nominee outside the company.

 

She sent me this : ( private company )

 

 

Looks like a legit company so how should I answer her question ? Yes it is not necessary to be a relative if the pension is from this company ?

 

Thanks in advance to any experts on pensions about which I know little.

[nigelforbes]

PensionBee is a UK company, they are an online pensions consolidator. In the UK at least there are tax issues associated with pensions, I don't understand what the connection is with them and Thailand. But as to the question whether the beneficiary of a pension can be different from the person who earned the pension, I IMAGINE/GUESS no, because of the tax implications.

EDIT: Except after death of the pension fund owner that is.

[scubascuba3]

If someone has a private pension and dies any remaining fund value should be distributed per will or go to wife, subject to tax. The thai person in question would need to be in the Will, otherwise she'll get nothing. The falang should have thought of that but we are in Thailand after all

 

Maybe do a google search of "what happens to private pensions on death"

[Expat68]

Your state pension is only your spouse and that now is only a one off payment (bereavement) about £2,000 to £2,500, forget figure 

[Lemsta69]

Ask PensionBee, they've got a live chat option on their website. 

[hotandsticky]

  On 11/30/2022 at 11:57 PM, Expat68 said:

Your state pension is only your spouse and that now is only a one off payment (bereavement) about £2,000 to £2,500, forget figure 

Expand  

Not if she lives in Thailand.

[Mutt Daeng]

  On 11/30/2022 at 11:57 PM, Expat68 said:

Your state pension is only your spouse and that now is only a one off payment (bereavement) about £2,000 to £2,500, forget figure 

Expand  

According to the Gov.uk website, that one off bereavement payment is only paid to eligible people in certain countries, and Thailand isn't one of the countries on the list.

https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/bereavement-benefits

 

[Mutt Daeng]

  On 12/1/2022 at 12:36 AM, hotandsticky said:

Not if she lives in Thailand.

Expand  

Just beat me to it.

[Denim]

Thanks for all the answers.

 

Seems it's pretty much as I told her. State pension only for wife ( one off payment and need to reside in UK )

 

Private pension will need to be named as beneficiary on the policy and will be liable for UK taxes.

 

Thanks. She is not married to a foreigner. Best dentist I ever had and pretty much retired now as only does work for her regular clients. She asked because she was curious about something but did not say what, probably asking for a friend.

[hotandsticky]

There is a lot of information out there, this is one example from Royal London:-

 

https://www.royallondon.com/about-us/members/understanding-your-finances/your-personal-finances/can-you-leave-a-pension-to-your-children/

 

In simple terms, for most of us with occupational pensions no one can inherit YOUR pension. However, the pension trustees should allow the nomination of a named beneficiary who will be your spouse/partner ie a Widow's Pension.. Where there is a dependent child the trustees may approve payments to them.

 

If you have an unused pension pot, that can be bequeathed. 

 

There is no inheritable benefit from the UK State Pension and Bereavements Payments can only be claimed by a widow if she is domiciled in the UK.

[hotandsticky]

  On 12/1/2022 at 12:39 AM, Denim said:

Thanks for all the answers.

 

Seems it's pretty much as I told her. State pension only for wife ( one off payment and need to reside in UK )

 

Private pension will need to be named as beneficiary on the policy and will be liable for UK taxes.

 

Thanks. She is not married to a foreigner. Best dentist I ever had and pretty much retired now as only does work for her regular clients. She asked because she was curious about something but did not say what, probably asking for a friend.

Expand  

 

If the 'widow' has settled in the UK and has British citizenship, she is entitled to a state pension when she reaches  age 67/68. provided she has a minimum of 10 National Insurance credits. For each credit, she would currently receive 1/35th of the state pension, likely to be around £200 a week from next April. If she lives in Thailand it will be frozen.

[Denim]

  On 12/1/2022 at 12:55 AM, hotandsticky said:

 

If the 'widow' has settled in the UK and has British citizenship, she is entitled to a state pension when she reaches  age 67/68. provided she has a minimum of 10 National Insurance credits. For each credit, she would currently receive 1/35th of the state pension, likely to be around £200 a week from next April. If she lives in Thailand it will be frozen.

Expand  

Thanks. She is Thai with a Thai husband so not sure why she is asking but will pass on all the information.

 

Thanks again for all answers.

[topt]

  On 12/1/2022 at 12:43 AM, hotandsticky said:

However, the pension trustees should allow the nomination of a named beneficiary who will be your spouse/partner ie a Widow's Pension.. Where there is a dependent child the trustees may approve payments to them.

Expand  

Depending on the individual scheme rules they could also allow a "dependant" who could be someone else you nominate directly with them. like an unmarried partner for example. However if not nominated by the policy holder before death I would suggest unlikely to be given.

 

[hotandsticky]

  On 12/1/2022 at 1:23 AM, topt said:

Depending on the individual scheme rules they could also allow a "dependant" who could be someone else you nominate directly with them. like an unmarried partner for example. However if not nominated by the policy holder before death I would suggest unlikely to be given.

 

Expand  

 

Unmarried partner certainly - I think I referred to wife/partner.  Gays cannot marry in Thailand so there is a perfect example of a financially dependent nomination; another might be a minor child (you wouldn't get approved for a 40 year old daughter).

 

I have been together with my GF for 16 years and we have no intention of marrying. The trustees accepted my nomination for her 15 years ago.

[Expat68]

  On 12/1/2022 at 12:36 AM, hotandsticky said:

Not if she lives in Thailand.

Expand  

If she was officially registered and has a NI number, then yes

[Expat68]

  On 12/1/2022 at 12:37 AM, Mutt Daeng said:

According to the Gov.uk website, that one off bereavement payment is only paid to eligible people in certain countries, and Thailand isn't one of the countries on the list.

https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/bereavement-benefits

 

Expand  

If she had a NI number and had lived/worked in the UK does not matter 

[hotandsticky]

  On 12/1/2022 at 8:01 AM, Expat68 said:

If she was officially registered and has a NI number, then yes

Expand  

I don't believe so. I will happily stand corrected but I believe that you have to be domiciled in the UK to claim. 

 

From the House of Commons notes on the Pensions Bill:-

Bereavement support payment

 

Steve Webb: I beg to move amendment 1, page 14, line 11, after ‘dies,’ insert—

‘() the person is ordinarily resident in Great Britain, or a specified territory, when the spouse or civil partner dies,’.

[hotandsticky]

  On 12/1/2022 at 8:03 AM, Expat68 said:

If she had a NI number and had lived/worked in the UK does not matter 

Expand  

From gov.uk re bereavement payments:-

 

Your partner

You could be eligible if your partner either:

 

paid National Insurance contributions for at least 25 weeks in one tax year since 6 April 1975

died because of an accident at work or a disease caused by work

When they died you must have been:

 

under State Pension age

living in the UK or a country that pays bereavement benefits

You cannot claim Bereavement Support Payment if you’re in prison.

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/bereavement-support-payment

[Expat68]

  On 12/1/2022 at 8:12 AM, hotandsticky said:

I don't believe so. I will happily stand corrected but I believe that you have to be domiciled in the UK to claim. 

 

From the House of Commons notes on the Pensions Bill:-

Bereavement support payment

 

Steve Webb: I beg to move amendment 1, page 14, line 11, after ‘dies,’ insert—

‘() the person is ordinarily resident in Great Britain, or a specified territory, when the spouse or civil partner dies,’.

Expand  

Unless the rules have changed from when I was Power of Attorney to a Thai lady whose British husband had died, I obtained the bereavement due to her, also and she still gets monthly from his old private pension 

[Expat68]

  On 12/1/2022 at 9:21 AM, Expat68 said:

Unless the rules have changed from when I was Power of Attorney to a Thai lady whose British husband had died, I obtained the bereavement due to her, also and she still gets monthly from his old private pension 

Expand  

She also receives her state pension 

[hotandsticky]

  On 12/1/2022 at 9:24 AM, Expat68 said:

She also receives her state pension 

Expand  

She will if she has made contributions in her own right.

 

The UK domicile rule was sneaked in in April 2016 in the Pensions Act 

[prakhonchai nick]

After recently advising the Pension Service of the death of state pension recipient, I received the following reply from them

 

........... as his widow lives in Thailand there is no Bereavement Support Payment Payable.  This is because Bereavement Support payment is classed as a death grant and was introduced by the UK government in 2017.  The death grant is only payable in certain countries however it is not payable in Thailand.  I am sorry that I cannot offer you a more favourable reply.

[Expat68]

  On 12/1/2022 at 12:11 PM, hotandsticky said:

She will if she has made contributions in her own right.

 

The UK domicile rule was sneaked in in April 2016 in the Pensions Act 

Expand  

Wow!! I did not know that. Question for you? What if the Thai lady is a holder of a British Passport?

[hotandsticky]

  On 12/2/2022 at 12:12 AM, Expat68 said:

Wow!! I did not know that. Question for you? What if the Thai lady is a holder of a British Passport?

Expand  

 

 

See the above post from @prakhonchai nickas I understand it she would still need to be living in the UK to claim.

[Harveyboy]

  On 12/1/2022 at 12:36 AM, hotandsticky said:

Not if she lives in Thailand.

Expand  

if we have chosen to finish out our lives in Thailand's  we get the scraps the basics ..no increase nothing sweet FA..price we pay to be here eh

[Nong Khai Man]

  On 11/30/2022 at 11:57 PM, Expat68 said:

Your state pension is only your spouse and that now is only a one off payment (bereavement) about £2,000 to £2,500, forget figure 

Expand  

Sorry M8, The Spouse Bereavement Payment has been Discontinued a Couple of Years ago ....My Wife will get NOWT When I Depart this mortal coil....Even though She did pay NIC's for the 8 or so years She lived in the U.K. With me....

[hotandsticky]

  On 12/2/2022 at 3:28 AM, Nong Khai Man said:

Sorry M8, The Spouse Bereavement Payment has been Discontinued a Couple of Years ago ....My Wife will get NOWT When I Depart this mortal coil....Even though She did pay NIC's for the 8 or so years She lived in the U.K. With me....

Expand  

Unlucky, 10 years would have got her something.

[prakhonchai nick]

  On 12/2/2022 at 3:42 AM, hotandsticky said:

Unlucky, 10 years would have got her something.

Expand  

I believe she can make a couple of voluntary contributions to take her to 10.  However, even if that is possible, the rules may well change again before she reaches state pension age, which depending on her current age could be 68 or more.

[hotandsticky]

  On 12/2/2022 at 3:01 AM, Harveyboy said:

if we have chosen to finish out our lives in Thailand's  we get the scraps the basics ..no increase nothing sweet FA ..price we pay to be here eh

Expand  

 

 

Nobody cares about us and there is definitely no empathy, for our position, from those living in the UK.

 

 

As you suggested, we have made our beds so we must lie in them.......

[Expat68]

  On 12/2/2022 at 3:28 AM, Nong Khai Man said:

Sorry M8, The Spouse Bereavement Payment has been Discontinued a Couple of Years ago ....My Wife will get NOWT When I Depart this mortal coil....Even though She did pay NIC's for the 8 or so years She lived in the U.K. With me....

Expand  

Thanks for that. Christ they are screwing us expats whichever way they can