Denim Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Maybe someone better informed than me can answer this question. Sitting on the sofa this evening a got a bing message on Line. It was from someone called Nok ? Don't know any Noks ? Thought it was a scammer. But it turned out to be my dentist of many years ( I'm her only British patient ) and once I knew that , I was ready to help answer her question which is. ( her words ) Is it true that the beneficiary of a pension does not necessarily have to be a relative or someone in the family ? A bit vague. I asked if it was a government pension ( old age ) or from a private company ? I thought if government probably need to be a relative but if from a private company it could be a nominee outside the company. She sent me this : ( private company ) Looks like a legit company so how should I answer her question ? Yes it is not necessary to be a relative if the pension is from this company ? Thanks in advance to any experts on pensions about which I know little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelforbes Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) PensionBee is a UK company, they are an online pensions consolidator. In the UK at least there are tax issues associated with pensions, I don't understand what the connection is with them and Thailand. But as to the question whether the beneficiary of a pension can be different from the person who earned the pension, I IMAGINE/GUESS no, because of the tax implications. EDIT: Except after death of the pension fund owner that is. Edited November 30, 2022 by nigelforbes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post scubascuba3 Posted November 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) If someone has a private pension and dies any remaining fund value should be distributed per will or go to wife, subject to tax. The thai person in question would need to be in the Will, otherwise she'll get nothing. The falang should have thought of that but we are in Thailand after all Maybe do a google search of "what happens to private pensions on death" Edited November 30, 2022 by scubascuba3 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expat68 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Your state pension is only your spouse and that now is only a one off payment (bereavement) about £2,000 to £2,500, forget figure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemsta69 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Ask PensionBee, they've got a live chat option on their website. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hotandsticky Posted December 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2022 38 minutes ago, Expat68 said: Your state pension is only your spouse and that now is only a one off payment (bereavement) about £2,000 to £2,500, forget figure Not if she lives in Thailand. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mutt Daeng Posted December 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2022 37 minutes ago, Expat68 said: Your state pension is only your spouse and that now is only a one off payment (bereavement) about £2,000 to £2,500, forget figure According to the Gov.uk website, that one off bereavement payment is only paid to eligible people in certain countries, and Thailand isn't one of the countries on the list. https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/bereavement-benefits 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutt Daeng Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Just now, hotandsticky said: Not if she lives in Thailand. Just beat me to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 Thanks for all the answers. Seems it's pretty much as I told her. State pension only for wife ( one off payment and need to reside in UK ) Private pension will need to be named as beneficiary on the policy and will be liable for UK taxes. Thanks. She is not married to a foreigner. Best dentist I ever had and pretty much retired now as only does work for her regular clients. She asked because she was curious about something but did not say what, probably asking for a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hotandsticky Posted December 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2022 There is a lot of information out there, this is one example from Royal London:- https://www.royallondon.com/about-us/members/understanding-your-finances/your-personal-finances/can-you-leave-a-pension-to-your-children/ In simple terms, for most of us with occupational pensions no one can inherit YOUR pension. However, the pension trustees should allow the nomination of a named beneficiary who will be your spouse/partner ie a Widow's Pension.. Where there is a dependent child the trustees may approve payments to them. If you have an unused pension pot, that can be bequeathed. There is no inheritable benefit from the UK State Pension and Bereavements Payments can only be claimed by a widow if she is domiciled in the UK. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hotandsticky Posted December 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2022 13 minutes ago, Denim said: Thanks for all the answers. Seems it's pretty much as I told her. State pension only for wife ( one off payment and need to reside in UK ) Private pension will need to be named as beneficiary on the policy and will be liable for UK taxes. Thanks. She is not married to a foreigner. Best dentist I ever had and pretty much retired now as only does work for her regular clients. She asked because she was curious about something but did not say what, probably asking for a friend. If the 'widow' has settled in the UK and has British citizenship, she is entitled to a state pension when she reaches age 67/68. provided she has a minimum of 10 National Insurance credits. For each credit, she would currently receive 1/35th of the state pension, likely to be around £200 a week from next April. If she lives in Thailand it will be frozen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 minute ago, hotandsticky said: If the 'widow' has settled in the UK and has British citizenship, she is entitled to a state pension when she reaches age 67/68. provided she has a minimum of 10 National Insurance credits. For each credit, she would currently receive 1/35th of the state pension, likely to be around £200 a week from next April. If she lives in Thailand it will be frozen. Thanks. She is Thai with a Thai husband so not sure why she is asking but will pass on all the information. Thanks again for all answers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post topt Posted December 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2022 32 minutes ago, hotandsticky said: However, the pension trustees should allow the nomination of a named beneficiary who will be your spouse/partner ie a Widow's Pension.. Where there is a dependent child the trustees may approve payments to them. Depending on the individual scheme rules they could also allow a "dependant" who could be someone else you nominate directly with them. like an unmarried partner for example. However if not nominated by the policy holder before death I would suggest unlikely to be given. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotandsticky Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 5 hours ago, topt said: Depending on the individual scheme rules they could also allow a "dependant" who could be someone else you nominate directly with them. like an unmarried partner for example. However if not nominated by the policy holder before death I would suggest unlikely to be given. Unmarried partner certainly - I think I referred to wife/partner. Gays cannot marry in Thailand so there is a perfect example of a financially dependent nomination; another might be a minor child (you wouldn't get approved for a 40 year old daughter). I have been together with my GF for 16 years and we have no intention of marrying. The trustees accepted my nomination for her 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expat68 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 7 hours ago, hotandsticky said: Not if she lives in Thailand. If she was officially registered and has a NI number, then yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expat68 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 7 hours ago, Mutt Daeng said: According to the Gov.uk website, that one off bereavement payment is only paid to eligible people in certain countries, and Thailand isn't one of the countries on the list. https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/bereavement-benefits If she had a NI number and had lived/worked in the UK does not matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotandsticky Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Expat68 said: If she was officially registered and has a NI number, then yes I don't believe so. I will happily stand corrected but I believe that you have to be domiciled in the UK to claim. From the House of Commons notes on the Pensions Bill:- Bereavement support payment Steve Webb: I beg to move amendment 1, page 14, line 11, after ‘dies,’ insert— ‘() the person is ordinarily resident in Great Britain, or a specified territory, when the spouse or civil partner dies,’. Edited December 1, 2022 by hotandsticky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotandsticky Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Expat68 said: If she had a NI number and had lived/worked in the UK does not matter From gov.uk re bereavement payments:- Your partner You could be eligible if your partner either: paid National Insurance contributions for at least 25 weeks in one tax year since 6 April 1975 died because of an accident at work or a disease caused by work When they died you must have been: under State Pension age living in the UK or a country that pays bereavement benefits You cannot claim Bereavement Support Payment if you’re in prison. https://www.gov.uk/bereavement-support-payment Edited December 1, 2022 by hotandsticky 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expat68 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 hour ago, hotandsticky said: I don't believe so. I will happily stand corrected but I believe that you have to be domiciled in the UK to claim. From the House of Commons notes on the Pensions Bill:- Bereavement support payment Steve Webb: I beg to move amendment 1, page 14, line 11, after ‘dies,’ insert— ‘() the person is ordinarily resident in Great Britain, or a specified territory, when the spouse or civil partner dies,’. Unless the rules have changed from when I was Power of Attorney to a Thai lady whose British husband had died, I obtained the bereavement due to her, also and she still gets monthly from his old private pension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expat68 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Expat68 said: Unless the rules have changed from when I was Power of Attorney to a Thai lady whose British husband had died, I obtained the bereavement due to her, also and she still gets monthly from his old private pension She also receives her state pension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotandsticky Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Expat68 said: She also receives her state pension She will if she has made contributions in her own right. The UK domicile rule was sneaked in in April 2016 in the Pensions Act 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prakhonchai nick Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 After recently advising the Pension Service of the death of state pension recipient, I received the following reply from them ........... as his widow lives in Thailand there is no Bereavement Support Payment Payable. This is because Bereavement Support payment is classed as a death grant and was introduced by the UK government in 2017. The death grant is only payable in certain countries however it is not payable in Thailand. I am sorry that I cannot offer you a more favourable reply. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expat68 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 11 hours ago, hotandsticky said: She will if she has made contributions in her own right. The UK domicile rule was sneaked in in April 2016 in the Pensions Act Wow!! I did not know that. Question for you? What if the Thai lady is a holder of a British Passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hotandsticky Posted December 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2022 24 minutes ago, Expat68 said: Wow!! I did not know that. Question for you? What if the Thai lady is a holder of a British Passport? See the above post from @prakhonchai nickas I understand it she would still need to be living in the UK to claim. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Harveyboy Posted December 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2022 On 12/1/2022 at 7:36 AM, hotandsticky said: Not if she lives in Thailand. if we have chosen to finish out our lives in Thailand's we get the scraps the basics ..no increase nothing sweet FA..price we pay to be here eh 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nong Khai Man Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) On 12/1/2022 at 6:57 AM, Expat68 said: Your state pension is only your spouse and that now is only a one off payment (bereavement) about £2,000 to £2,500, forget figure Sorry M8, The Spouse Bereavement Payment has been Discontinued a Couple of Years ago ....My Wife will get NOWT When I Depart this mortal coil....Even though She did pay NIC's for the 8 or so years She lived in the U.K. With me.... Edited December 2, 2022 by Nong Khai Man More Added 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotandsticky Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, Nong Khai Man said: Sorry M8, The Spouse Bereavement Payment has been Discontinued a Couple of Years ago ....My Wife will get NOWT When I Depart this mortal coil....Even though She did pay NIC's for the 8 or so years She lived in the U.K. With me.... Unlucky, 10 years would have got her something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prakhonchai nick Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 10 minutes ago, hotandsticky said: Unlucky, 10 years would have got her something. I believe she can make a couple of voluntary contributions to take her to 10. However, even if that is possible, the rules may well change again before she reaches state pension age, which depending on her current age could be 68 or more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotandsticky Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Harveyboy said: if we have chosen to finish out our lives in Thailand's we get the scraps the basics ..no increase nothing sweet FA ..price we pay to be here eh Nobody cares about us and there is definitely no empathy, for our position, from those living in the UK. As you suggested, we have made our beds so we must lie in them....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expat68 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Nong Khai Man said: Sorry M8, The Spouse Bereavement Payment has been Discontinued a Couple of Years ago ....My Wife will get NOWT When I Depart this mortal coil....Even though She did pay NIC's for the 8 or so years She lived in the U.K. With me.... Thanks for that. Christ they are screwing us expats whichever way they can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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