Thaksin’s Homecoming Bid May Fall Through Without Help From Kingmaker

[metisdead]

A post using profane language and a reply has been removed:

 

8. You will not post vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

A military coup might as you proffer be "illegal" but so is interfering in a government procurement process.

 

The bible text you quote does not mean every crime in the world should be forgiven because other crimes exist.

 

 

There is a vast difference between " interfering in a government procurement process" and a military coup.

 

If you do not understand that or have a problem with that then there is no point in discussing it.

 

One is a civil offence where evidence has to be shown to the court along with proof, and not alleged proof.

 

A military coup is treason against an elected government.

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Does it say anything in the Koran or the Buddhist book?

????? I have no idea, being a lapsed Christian and never been a Muslim or a Buddhist

[KannikaP]

33 minutes ago, billd766 said:

????? I have no idea, being a lapsed Christian and never been a Muslim or a Buddhist

I only asked because this is what you wrote on Tuesday

 

To quote the Christian bible 

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/let_him_who_is_without_sin_cast_the_first_stone

 

Etymology
An allusion to an utterance of Jesus in John 8:7, viz. “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”[1]       HER?

Phrase
let him who is without sin cast the first stone

Only those who are faultless have the right to pass judgment upon others (implying that no one is faultless and that, therefore, no one has such a right to pass judgment). 

[zzaa09]

10 minutes ago, billd766 said:

There is a vast difference between " interfering in a government procurement process" and a military coup.

 

If you do not understand that or have a problem with that then there is no point in discussing it.

 

One is a civil offence where evidence has to be shown to the court along with proof, and not alleged proof.

 

A military coup is treason against an elected government.

 

Yet, all perfectly accepted and acted upon for decades - as the usual and expected cycles of engaging Thai politics and theatre are commonplace. 

 

One really should ask as to why these activities, and the origins/reasons thereof, continue to fill the void of decent and moral behaviour by the same old weary elitist crowd. Protection of the selected institutions is what they do - and will continue so as long as the seemingly revered institutions exist. 

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I was not "technically correct" pointing out that Yingluck was removed from office for abuse of power by the Constitutional Court. I was absolutely correct.

 

"...it is the case that both the Thaksin and Yingluck governments, and the intervening Thaksin "loyal" government, were removed by the military.."

No, that is not the case!    Yingluck was removed by the court, there was no "Yingluck government" at the time of the coup.  The acting PM at the time was her successor, Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan, it was his government that the coup removed.

The reality, as I stated, was that the coup was staged during an election, which Yingluck and her party were expected to win.

 

Pedantry, at times, has a place. In this case you are simply using it to hide simply the actual truth, which was that the coup was staged to prevent Yingluck from being re-elected.

[scorecard]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:08 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

He could and can come back anytime!

What Thaksin wants is to be above the law. People who are convicted criminals and who are convicted to go to jail must go to jail. That shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

 

And what kind of article is this that doesn't even mention above fact? He is a wanted criminal, and he doesn't want to server his time in jail, that is why he is not coming back. 

On 12/6/2022 at 8:38 PM, pacovl46 said:

I'm not familiar with the current situation, therefore I can't speak on that. In my opinion he needs to stand trial for what he did regardless of what someone else did or didn't do! 

In a nutshell 'nobody is above the law' however unfortunately the law doesn't work as a smooth balanced machine and it should never be tit for tat process. The main principle remains 'nobody is above the laws'.

 

On 12/7/2022 at 7:06 AM, edwinchester said:

So you know all about events of 14 years ago but nothing about the current Govt? Just to enlighten you, in Thailand staging a coup is illegal.

Thaksin’s Homecoming Bid May Fall Through ...

 

Was it ever likely to succeed? 

 

How could that be?  There's many outstanding serious charges against him still unheard, and for many of these cases the evidence has already been made public and shown him to be guilty.

 

And if the correct legal processes of the law are followed he would be arrested when he put one foot on Thai soil at the arrival airport.

 

Or is there some trump attitude emerging here 'I'm special and I'm above the law'?

Edited December 8, 2022 by scorecard

[MrMojoRisin]

44 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 There's many outstanding serious charges against him still unheard, and for many of these cases the evidence has already been made public and shown him to be 

What are these serious charges and where is the evidence?

[billd766]

3 hours ago, KannikaP said:

I only asked because this is what you wrote on Tuesday

 

To quote the Christian bible 

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/let_him_who_is_without_sin_cast_the_first_stone

 

Etymology
An allusion to an utterance of Jesus in John 8:7, viz. “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”[1]       HER?

Phrase
let him who is without sin cast the first stone

Only those who are faultless have the right to pass judgment upon others (implying that no one is faultless and that, therefore, no one has such a right to pass judgment). 

That was one of the few bits that I remember from my Christian education. I gave that faith up about 60 years ago.

[KannikaP]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

That was one of the few bits that I remember from my Christian education. I gave that faith up about 60 years ago.

I remember....In the beginning etc etc. But like you, I gave up on Christianity in 1962. Let's face it, they WERE more popular than JC! 

Anniversary today of John Winston Lennon's death....42 years ago.

[pacovl46]

11 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

1-0

In your head maybe, not in the real world, though! 

[scorecard]

57 minutes ago, billd766 said:

That was one of the few bits that I remember from my Christian education. I gave that faith up about 60 years ago.

Supposed quotes from the bible abound.

Many have also been proven to not exist or to be misinterpreted or totally twisted/untruthful. 

 

 

I totally/eventually gave up on the bible through a different event.

 

I was conscripted and went to the Vietnam war. First up 3 months rookie training. About half way through rookie trg we had the first lecture from the camp chaplain (Church of England). He started with words about 'I am your friend' and 'you can ask me anything you want' which he repeated again and again.

 

Thirty minutes later he asked for questions and again 'you can ask me anything'. A couple of questions then I put up my hand and stand to attention. He told me to ask my question.

 

I said 'I'm confused sir about where the bible came from'.

 

His reaction was abuse, 'how dare you ask such a rude question' and he called the 2 training sgts to come into the room. They marched me to the CO's office and I was given extra mess cleaning duties for the rest of my time at that camp.

 

A different aspect; every time we were outside for a few hours or days suddenly a small jeep would appear with a big urn of hot tea and big trays of fresh sandwiches. This was the Salvation Army at work. The Salvos guys never tried to conduct prayer meetings or similar, they did quietly ask if anbody needs left to write a quick letter home. Often enough there was and he would quickly take the young soldier a few meteres away and sit together on folding chairs. Five minutes later all done, envelope addressed and in the pocket of the salvos guy to take it to the camp post office.

 

In Vietnam exactly the same thing but less frequent because many time we were too close to critical situations and too dangerous for activities like this.

 

I still don't really know where the bible comes from. 

[pacovl46]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

So, according to you it is OK if coup makers are NOT punished but those politicians who were tried and convicted under those coup governments must be punished.

Putting words in my mouth won't work!

 

Apparently I need to spell it out for you:

 

Any criminal needs to pay for what they did, regardless of what anyone else did! Just because no one went after the perpetrators of what, 17 coups in Thailand in total now, doesn't mean Thaksin should walk free. 

 

If anyone has a problem with any of the coups they can take the resonsible parties to court and see what happens. Since you seem to be the leading authority in the case, at least in your mind, why don't you do that and see how far you'll get?!

 

 If they get convicted they need to go to jail, just like Thaksin needs to go to jail for what he did! But apparently no one gives a rat's behind about your "coups are illegal in Thailand" line and that's why nothing happened so far and that's also why there WILL NEVER be anything happening in that regard! 

Edited December 8, 2022 by pacovl46

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

How could that be?  There's many outstanding serious charges against him still unheard, and for many of these cases the evidence has already been made public and shown him to be guilty.

 

And if the correct legal processes of the law are followed he would be arrested when he put one foot on Thai soil at the arrival airport

I think that we have seen many allegations against Thaksin. Precious little hard evidence, but many allegations. As for the courts, well the role of the courts in suppressing opposition parties over the last few years, particularly with regard to Thanuthom and the Future Forward party in the last election doesn't exactly inspire confidence that they would produce verdicts unmarked by, umh, political considerations.

 

Finally, I should imagine the thought of Thaksin setting foot on Thai soil will lead to immense temptations in some circles to "do an Aquino" on him as he steps off the aircraft. For his own safety he would be better flying into Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai, on a scheduled flight - private aircraft are so much easier to intercept!

[MrMojoRisin]

27 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

In your head maybe, not in the real world, though! 

2-0

[herfiehandbag]

12 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

If anyone has a problem with any of the coups they can take the resonsible parties to court and see what happens. Since you seem to be the leading authority in the case, at least in your mind, why don't you do that and see how far you'll get?!

I know you have admitted that you have paid little attention to the situation in Thailand over recent years, but this suggestion shows the most amazing naivety over the way that the regime and judiciary have been operating over the last year's!

 

No one will challenge this regime in this way. They know they will be found in the Mekong with a stomach full of concrete before the challenge gets anywhere near a court!

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Any criminal needs to pay for what they did, regardless of what anyone else did! 

*after a fair trial

 

All persons shall be equal before the courts and tribunals. In the determination of any criminal charge against him, or of his rights and obligations in a suit at law, everyone shall be entitled to a fair and public hearing by a competent, independent and impartial tribunal established by law

[pacovl46]

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

2-0

????????????????

[pacovl46]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

I know you have admitted that you have paid little attention to the situation in Thailand over recent years, but this suggestion shows the most amazing naivety over the way that the regime and judiciary have been operating over the last year's!

 

No one will challenge this regime in this way. They know they will be found in the Mekong with a stomach full of concrete before the challenge gets anywhere near a court!

You missed the point. The guy I was replying to always brings up the "coups are illegal in Thailand" line and thinks that justifies Thaksin not being prosecuted. In my book everyone who gets lawfully convicted needs to pay the price regardless of what other people did.

[pacovl46]

49 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

*after a fair trial

 

All persons shall be equal before the courts and tribunals. In the determination of any criminal charge against him, or of his rights and obligations in a suit at law, everyone shall be entitled to a fair and public hearing by a competent, independent and impartial tribunal established by law

Just because the trial didn't go his way doesn't mean that it wasn't fair! That's just your opinion. He's a convicted criminal who needs to go to prison, regardless of what your opinion is on the subject matter. End of story!

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

*after a fair trial

 

All persons shall be equal before the courts and tribunals. In the determination of any criminal charge against him, or of his rights and obligations in a suit at law, everyone shall be entitled to a fair and public hearing by a competent, independent and impartial tribunal established by law

So he is innocent?  The extensive list of corruption I posted before (that you ignored) didn't happen?

[MrMojoRisin]

8 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Just because the trial didn't go his way doesn't mean that it wasn't fair! That's just your opinion. He's a convicted criminal who needs to go to prison, regardless of what your opinion is on the subject matter. End of story!

Seems Freedom House (along with every other NGO that reports on rule of law) disagree with you -

 

Although Thailand’s constitution grants independence to the judiciary, in practice Thailand’s courts are politicized, and corruption in the judicial branch is common. The Constitutional Court, which has been accused of favoring the military, has sweeping powers, including the ability to dissolve political parties, overthrow elected officials, and veto legislation. In 2018, the government enacted a law that made criticism of the Constitutional Court with “rude, sarcastic, or threatening words” a criminal offense, further shielding the body from accountability. In February 2020, the Constitutional Court abolished the popular opposition party FFP after what observers characterized as a highly politicized trial.

In 2019, Kanakorn Pianchana, a judge in Yala province, shot himself in court immediately after acquitting five Muslim defendants from Thailand’s deep south on murder charges. Before shooting himself, Kanakorn read a statement stating that he had been under intense pressure by superiors to find the five guilty despite a lack of evidence.

 

https://freedomhouse.org/country/thailand/freedom-world/2021#CL

3-0

[MrMojoRisin]

7 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

So he is innocent?  The extensive list of corruption I posted before (that you ignored) didn't happen?

* after a fair trial

 

As goes for everyone, innocent until proven guilty.

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

* after a fair trial

 

As goes for everyone, innocent until proven guilty.

Answer the question. 

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Answer the question. 

Until there is a fair trial your list is nought but allegations.

[josephbloggs]

13 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Until there is a fair trial your list is nought but allegations.

Ha ha, brilliant. You have you head so far in the sand it is ridiculous. So you genuinely believe he didn't:

 

• Approve an Exim bank load to the globally sanctioned Burmese junta to buy Shin Corp satellites and services.
• Hide shares by transferring them to his maid, driver, and family members to avoid paying tax whilst PM.
• Instruct the BOI to give tax breaks to Shin Satellite
• Instruct the transport ministry to abolish the minimum flight price rule just before he entered in to a JV with Air Asia
• Authorise the sale of state land to his wife at way below market value. (No conflict of interest there!)
• Have a poor human rights record at all, in fact he was a shining beacon of humanity.

 

Those are facts, there are paper trails. If you don't want to see those facts then feel free to carrry on waving your Thaksin flag but he now deserve to be ignored. If you are not a troll you are doing a good impression of one.

[MrMojoRisin]

34 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ha ha, brilliant. You have you head so far in the sand it is ridiculous. So you genuinely believe he didn't:

 

• Approve an Exim bank load to the globally sanctioned Burmese junta to buy Shin Corp satellites and services.
• Hide shares by transferring them to his maid, driver, and family members to avoid paying tax whilst PM.
• Instruct the BOI to give tax breaks to Shin Satellite
• Instruct the transport ministry to abolish the minimum flight price rule just before he entered in to a JV with Air Asia
• Authorise the sale of state land to his wife at way below market value. (No conflict of interest there!)
• Have a poor human rights record at all, in fact he was a shining beacon of humanity.

 

Those are facts, there are paper trails. If you don't want to see those facts then feel free to carrry on waving your Thaksin flag but he now deserve to be ignored. If you are not a troll you are doing a good impression of one.

Educate yourself, read a book.

 

https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9780801449994/fighting-for-virtue/

 

[Eric Loh]

It has already been +10 years since the Yellow Shirts were strong to oppose Thaksin's return. The situation now is totally different. The yellow shirts no longer have a strong enough platform to stand on, to shout and scream from and their passion subsided, funds depleted and the movement has waned. It's even rumored that Sondhi Limthongkul has make peace with Thaksin in the interest of good business, The Army has also fallen out with the yellow shirts and denied them the use of the Army Club for political rally in 2012. The anti-monarchy sentiments and the fear that Thaksin planned to turn Thailand into a Republic with him as President has long gone. 10 years under military government has not improved the lives of Thais and corruption has gone worse. This time Thaksin's return will be facing less resistance and my feeling is that he will be back soon. 

[actonion]

On 12/6/2022 at 8:21 PM, pacovl46 said:

Why? Because he's as corrupt as they come and he needs to pay for what he did, just like everyone else! 

And the current government?

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Educate yourself, read a book.

 

https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9780801449994/fighting-for-virtue/

 

More deflection, once again you don't answer any questions.  Bye bye.