Yellow Tabien Baan and Pink ID required for enrolment into Social Security (Section 39)

[LogicThai]

The Social Security Office denied application of my request of transfer from Section 33 (Employee) to Section 39 (Own Insured). They demanded presentation of a Yellow Tabien Baan (Thor.Ror.13) and a Pink ID, both documents I had never seen the need for, and never sought to get issued with. I produced a Certificate of Residence issued by the Immigration Office, but that was rejected. I will now have to go through the steps of procuring a Yellow Tabien Baan and a Pink ID, which is not such a big deal. I probably should have done so already. My main concern was that it will take time to process all that, but I was told by Social Security that I have 6 months to make the shift from Section 33 to Section 39.

 

This is quite irritating though, obviously. My identity is proven by my passport, visa etc., my membership to the Social Security scheme is established by my having a number, card and contribution record, and my address is certified by Immigration. More annoying was the attitude of the person at the Social Security Office in Silom, who was clearly more than unhelpful. I did not deal with her directly, I was only standing in the back while a delegate from my former employer was doing the talking, but I had the vivid impression of being given a rare glimpse of more than mere administrative unhelpfulness. Sad.

 

 

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, LogicThai said:

identity is proven by my passport,

To get the yellow book you will learn that it is possible (and necessary) to translate a foreign passport into Thai (so if your place of birth is Dnjepropetrowsk, this will be translated into Thai). They will translate your name, too, into some pseudo-Thai gibberish.

The passport you used to enter the country obviously doesn't prove anything. 

You will also need Thai witnesses who prove you are who you pretend to be. A girlfriend from the internet will do, but must be Thai. No Filipina, please.

That's real proof in Thailand.

[LogicThai]

I know. None of the many things one might assume would be proof of identity seem to be acceptable: having been in the country for years, married to a Thai and having had Thai children, all documents translated and certified many times (including family name indeed), issued a driving licence, paid taxes, etc. All of that is to be disregarded entirely. Strange country...

[edwardflory]

2 days after we were married we went to get a YELLOW book.

It took a total of 5 days ( plus the weekend ). Docuements taken:

 5 year old lease in both our names (  her maiden  name ) Passport in her maiden name ) her change of " last" name docuement, copy of old Thai ID card and new Thai ID card with my last name, marriage docuements in Thai and English, copies of MY embassy paperwork for marriage in Thai and English, my passport ( 8 years of extensions stamps ), and her brother to certify that he knew we were together over 5 years. 

 

I have a friend that got a YELLOW book in 1 hour WITHOUT all of the above

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, Lorry said:

To get the yellow book you will learn that it is possible (and necessary) to translate a foreign passport into Thai

Only necessary if asked for.

[zyphodb]

10 hours ago, LogicThai said:

I know. None of the many things one might assume would be proof of identity seem to be acceptable: having been in the country for years, married to a Thai and having had Thai children, all documents translated and certified many times (including family name indeed), issued a driving licence, paid taxes, etc. All of that is to be disregarded entirely. Strange country...

Having just gone through this process myself, I'd say that the SSO's are very unhelpful to foreigners trying to get on to section 39 SS, to the point where I wonder if it's actual policy to put us off getting on it.

 

 I seem to have finally got on it, but to get to the point of direct debits from my bank, took 5 months of me having to go to the office 50 kms away in person to pay the monthly payments before they got the DD together.

I had to open a new acc with SCB because they'd only do DD's from certain banks (not Kasikorn), It took them 3 months to tell me this after I got quite angry about it in their office in the end.

 So you need to persevere, as I really don't think the various office staff like the idea of farangs being able to get it at all...

[crazykopite]

Very easy to get the yellow book and pink card they do have there advantages when I got mine it took all of 30 minutes and cost less than 500 baht and as I was 65 I never have to renew it last week I purchased a car no need to go to the IO and pay for a certificate of residence I also get discount at my dentist and I always show it when I go to a government hospital although I’m not sure if I get any discount 

[scorecard]

Thanks for sharing the details / your experience of trying to continue your Social Security benfits under Section 39 with own payment to the bank.

 

I'm guessing your ultimate intention was to continue your Injury Benefits and Sickness Benefits under Section 39 of the SSF Act. Is that Correct, can you please confirm this?

 

I'm about to do the same. My situation is a bit different, I've had Thai Permanent Residency (PR) for 25 years, the PR book is issued in Thailand therefore it's all Thai language. I've got my Pink card (issued 10 years ago), and my name in in the original dark blue Tabien Baan book.

 

When you dicussed your documents with the Social Security Fund SSF officers did they mention anything alternative books/documents, PR book perhaps in lieu of passport or dark blue Tabien Baan book in lieu of yellow Book.

 

I'm guessing you got a refund of your contributions, at the time of the refund did the SSF officers mention to you that you can continue Injury Benefits and Sickness Benefits and pay monthly at the bank or did you get this information from another source? 

 

Please share, I would very much appreciate any comments/details you have on any part of this. Thanks.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, zyphodb said:

Having just gone through this process myself, I'd say that the SSO's are very unhelpful to foreigners trying to get on to section 39 SS, to the point where I wonder if it's actual policy to put us off getting on it.

 

 I seem to have finally got on it, but to get to the point of direct debits from my bank, took 5 months of me having to go to the office 50 kms away in person to pay the monthly payments before they got the DD together.

I had to open a new acc with SCB because they'd only do DD's from certain banks (not Kasikorn), It took them 3 months to tell me this after I got quite angry about it in their office in the end.

 So you need to persevere, as I really don't think the various office staff like the idea of farangs being able to get it at all...

Very interesting and valueable information, thanks for sharing.

 

Can you recall if the Social Security Fund SSF will acept payments through Krung Thai Bank or Bangkok Bank? 

 

I'm guessing you got a refund of your employment based SSF contributions on retirement or termination? At the time of getting the refund did the SSF officer tell you / advise you that you can continue your Injury and Sickness benefits? Or did you get this information from a different source? 

 

I'm about to make a further visit to the SSF, probably their HO at Nonthaburi. My situation:

 

- Contributed to the SSF for about 20 years, 3 different employers.

- Retired at 60, company accountant gave me some documents to take to the SSF at Din Daeng to get a contributions refund. Accountant had zero knowledge of anything about the SSF policies/ procedures etc.

- Went to Din Daeng, officer spoke very good Englisn, I asked if they had any documents I should read for further information in Thai or English. Answer 'we don't have any documents like that'

- I waited a couple of hours then walked away with a large amount of cash, and called my company accountant to tell her 'refund received'.

- Later same evening accountnat was talking to any old friend, she mentioned my refund, her friend responded 'he can continue his Injury and Sickness benefits, he should go back tomorrow morning and tell them 'want to continue Injury and Sickness benefits'.

- I went back next morning, showed another officer the documents from the previous afternoon, she also spoke good English and I said 'I want to continue my his Injury and Sickness benefits'.

- She froze for a minute then said, very clear English 'You cannot continue, you are too late, you have to complete the forms to continue on the same day you get your refund of contribitions'.

- I asked to speak to a supervisor, she froze gain then said 'OK I will get the supervisor.

- She returned to the room with another lady, they stopped well before getting to the counter and had some discussion.

- Both came to the counter, supervisor said 'how can I help you', very good/clear English. I responded he should go back tomorrow morning and tell them 'want to continue Injury and Sickness benefits'.

- Supervisor responded, good English 'she has already told you, You cannot continue, you are too late, you have to complete the forms to continue on the same day you get your refund of contribitions'.

- I asked if they had any documents Thai or English that I could read. Answer 'we don't have that' and they both walked away'.

- I naively believed they were telling me the correct / legal / according to the SSF Act policy on this point.

- Some years on by accident I discovered that 'members have 6 months to decide if they want to continue - Article 39 of the Act.

- Bottom line it's now well past six months but I've had other comments about insisting the SSF should, in my case, waive the six months aspect and allow me to continue. All step by step.

 

Sorry this is so long. My question: would you please share when/how you became aware of being able to continue your Injury and Sickness benefits and pay every month at the bank?

 

Sorry to be a nuisance, however any detail I can find on this is very valuable.

 

Thanks.

[LogicThai]

Yes of course, electing to continue on the Sickness Benefit is particularly good value. Unlike private insurance, it stays with you for as long as you contribute, and your contribution remains stable with advancing age. One other aspect is that my country (Belgium) is negotiating with Thailand on a bilateral Social Security Agreement, that would allow people in either scheme to benefit from the other. This is a bit of a long shot, but if and when ratified, it would enable me to get back under Social Security "using the back door", so to speak.

They wanted my Yellow Book, they did not ask if I was a PR or anything. I did not inquire about what would happen if I were a PR, but I would assume that if you are one, you have a Blue TB and a Pink Card, you are all set. In practical terms, getting Social Security to accept one under Section 39 is quite straightforward, but they probably are making it harder than it should be by demanding quite superfluous documents, just as additional roadblocks.

There was no mention of a refund or anything, but I have not been in the SS for very long. I had known that Section 39 was available for a long time, I simply arranged for a visit to the SS office with a Thai speaking staff from my former employer, and my request was turned down. it will remain stalled until I can produce the Yellow TB and Pink ID they want, and then it will resume and eventually go through. Either that or I will reintegrate SS by way of Section 33 and "classic" employment.

[LogicThai]

General - : (sso.go.th)

 

The website of SSO is quite clear about payment and which banks are approved, and it is in English.

 

Quote

 

 (Section 39 insured person) 

     1) Make payment at the Social Security Office Bangkok areas/provincial branches in person or through the postal service in cash or cheque 

     2) Pay through the SSO service points, namely Krungthai Bank Public Co., Ltd., Bank of Ayudhya Public Co., Ltd., Thanachart Bank Public Co., Ltd, Tesco Lotus, Big C, CenPay, Counter Service and postal offices. Be noted that Thanachart Bank will terminate its service on 31 May 2021. 

     3) Pay using the e-payment of Krungthai Bank Public Co., Ltd., Bank of Ayudhya Public Co., Ltd., Siam Commercial Bank Public Co., Ltd., Kasikornbank Public Co., Ltd., Bangkok Bank Public Co., Ltd., Citibank Ltd., Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation, TMB Bank Public Co., Ltd.

 

 

[Dogmatix]

In others threads it is said that for driving license renewal they will no longer accept the yellow tabien baan and pink ID card as proof of address, even though tabien baan is accepted from Thai citizens. They want a certificate of residence provided by Immigration or an embassy.  It is great to see Thai government departments being consistent in their approach.

[BigStar]

13 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

In others threads it is said that for driving license renewal they will no longer accept the yellow tabien baan and pink ID card as proof of address

I used mine at Chonburi last April.

[JeffersLos]

Another reason why foreigners based here should get the yellow book and pink card. 

 

You never know you might need it. 

 

Their uses could also be surprising.

 

While enrolling in university I showed them my pink card and they said I could register with my passport, pay the international student fees and be eligible for a student visa, or with the pink card, be ineligible for a student visa, but not have to pay the international student fees, which were 6 figures per year.

[BigStar]

16 hours ago, LogicThai said:

my membership to the Social Security scheme is established by my having a number, card

Last year my office in Laem Chabang said they were no longer issuing cards and now to use the pink ID card to prove membership at the hospitals. I did that a few times this year, and it worked quite well.

 

I learned this the first time I tried to use my old membership card. I was told to go to the SS office. Fortunately, I already had one of those UTTERLY USELESS yellow books and pink card and carried them with me. So they straightened things out on the computer and were all quite nice.

 

Pattaya has strict requirements about issuing the yellow book (so much riff raff here), but it really wasn't that big of a deal. I managed to enjoy myself. Even found interesting things to do in BKK when I went to the Embassy for the verification of the passport copy.

 

[Sheryl]

It is actually possible to do this without the pink ID card and tabian ban. But many SS staff don't know how. The computer form they have to enter is designed for Thais and includes a mandatory  field for ID number. There is some sort of work around for this using passport but it is not widely known and you might need to go to, or call, the main SS office in Nonthaburi. 

 

This business of forms requiring ID number  applies to many transactions in Thailand (not just SS...banks, even store loyalty cards etc) and often leads to a blanket "foreigner cannot" from staff who don't know how to deal with it.

 

In addition since Thais almost never continue the SS medical (they automatically come under the free scheme once SS ends)  many SS staff are unfamiliar with the process.

 

 

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

It is actually possible to do this without the pink ID card and tabian ban. But many SS staff don't know how. The computer form they have to enter is designed for Thais and includes a mandatory  field for ID number. There is some sort of work around for this using passport but it is not widely known and you might need to go to, or call, the main SS office in Nonthaburi. 

 

This business of forms requiring ID number  applies to many transactions in Thailand (not just SS...banks, even store loyalty cards etc) and often leads to a blanket "foreigner cannot" from staff who don't know how to deal with it.

 

In addition since Thais almost never continue the SS medical (they automatically come under the free scheme once SS ends)  many SS staff are unfamiliar with the process.

 

 

Yes, for sure. When I retire I will start drawing my pension and move to the 30Baht (free) scheme.

[LogicThai]

5 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Yes, for sure. When I retire I will start drawing my pension and move to the 30Baht (free) scheme.

I wonder how the 30Baht scheme compares with the Social Security scheme in practice. Is it just the same coverage, with just a difference of who pays (SSO or the Gov directly), or is thee actually a better level of care with SSO?

[zyphodb]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Very interesting and valueable information, thanks for sharing.

 

Can you recall if the Social Security Fund SSF will acept payments through Krung Thai Bank or Bangkok Bank? 

 

I'm guessing you got a refund of your employment based SSF contributions on retirement or termination? At the time of getting the refund did the SSF officer tell you / advise you that you can continue your Injury and Sickness benefits? Or did you get this information from a different source? 

 

I'm about to make a further visit to the SSF, probably their HO at Nonthaburi. My situation:

 

- Contributed to the SSF for about 20 years, 3 different employers.

- Retired at 60, company accountant gave me some documents to take to the SSF at Din Daeng to get a contributions refund. Accountant had zero knowledge of anything about the SSF policies/ procedures etc.

- Went to Din Daeng, officer spoke very good Englisn, I asked if they had any documents I should read for further information in Thai or English. Answer 'we don't have any documents like that'

- I waited a couple of hours then walked away with a large amount of cash, and called my company accountant to tell her 'refund received'.

- Later same evening accountnat was talking to any old friend, she mentioned my refund, her friend responded 'he can continue his Injury and Sickness benefits, he should go back tomorrow morning and tell them 'want to continue Injury and Sickness benefits'.

- I went back next morning, showed another officer the documents from the previous afternoon, she also spoke good English and I said 'I want to continue my his Injury and Sickness benefits'.

- She froze for a minute then said, very clear English 'You cannot continue, you are too late, you have to complete the forms to continue on the same day you get your refund of contribitions'.

- I asked to speak to a supervisor, she froze gain then said 'OK I will get the supervisor.

- She returned to the room with another lady, they stopped well before getting to the counter and had some discussion.

- Both came to the counter, supervisor said 'how can I help you', very good/clear English. I responded he should go back tomorrow morning and tell them 'want to continue Injury and Sickness benefits'.

- Supervisor responded, good English 'she has already told you, You cannot continue, you are too late, you have to complete the forms to continue on the same day you get your refund of contribitions'.

- I asked if they had any documents Thai or English that I could read. Answer 'we don't have that' and they both walked away'.

- I naively believed they were telling me the correct / legal / according to the SSF Act policy on this point.

- Some years on by accident I discovered that 'members have 6 months to decide if they want to continue - Article 39 of the Act.

- Bottom line it's now well past six months but I've had other comments about insisting the SSF should, in my case, waive the six months aspect and allow me to continue. All step by step.

 

Sorry this is so long. My question: would you please share when/how you became aware of being able to continue your Injury and Sickness benefits and pay every month at the bank?

 

Sorry to be a nuisance, however any detail I can find on this is very valuable.

 

Thanks.

I found out the section 39 info from here, ThaiVisa, then got on to the local SSO at the time while I was still Teaching. 

 I went around the office on the same week that I finished and applied for it.

 Mine was further complicated by my home province being different from where I was working.

As far as I understand it, if you go to section 39, you don't claim your SS payments back, you continue them at the rate of 430 something bahts every month, which gives you free meds and hospitals if you've paid in for, 3 years, I think. Up to a pension if you've paid in for 15 years or so...

 

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

I wonder how the 30Baht scheme compares with the Social Security scheme in practice. Is it just the same coverage, with just a difference of who pays (SSO or the Gov directly), or is thee actually a better level of care with SSO?

Mostly  the same.

 

Main difference is no choice in hospital whereas under SS there is often a list you can chose from.

 

For a few specialized things  there are differences but without a clear winner between the 2 systems i.e. some things covered under one but nto the other. There has been talk of harmonizing these systems for years but little progress. But this only pertains to a very few specialized treatments (e.g. dialysis)

[Sheryl]

Just now, zyphodb said:

I found out the section 39 info from here, ThaiVisa then got on to the local SSO at the time while I was still Teaching. 

 I went around the office on the same week that I finished and applied for it.

 Mine was further complicated by my home province being different from where I was working.

As far as I understand it, if you go to section 39, you don't claim your SS payments back, you continue them at the rate of 430 something bahts every month, which gives you free meds and hospitals if you've paid in for, 3 years, I think. Up to a pension if you've paid in for 15 years or so.

 

The medical benefit and the pension benefit are entirely different things under SS and not dependent on one another.

 

Contributions for medical care are never refunded, period. You can continue eligibility through self pay if you act within 6 months of retirement.

 

Under the pension benefit it depends on how long you were covered by the scheme. If around 10 years (approx, don't quote me on that) you have a choice of a refund of contributions or a monthly pension for life. Between I think 1 to 10 years (approx), you can only claim the refund.

 

What you choose to do re pension benefit has no bearing on your medical cover though some SSOs have erroneously told people it did.

[zyphodb]

Just now, Sheryl said:

The medical benefit and the pension benefit are entirely different things under SS and not dependent on one another.

 

Contributions for medical care are never refunded, period. You can continue eligibility through self pay if you act within 6 months of retirement.

 

Under the pension benefit it depends on how long you were covered by the scheme. If around 10 years (approx, don't quote me on that) you have a choice of a refund of contributions or a monthly pension for life. Between I think 1 to 10 years (approx), you can only claim the refund.

 

What you choose to do re pension benefit has no bearing on your medical cover though some SSOs have erroneously told people it did.

So you're saying that I should be able to claim back, in my case 6 years of contributions as well as carrying on paying monthly for my healthcare under section 39?

   they didn't tell me that lol

[zyphodb]

3 hours ago, LogicThai said:

General - : (sso.go.th)

 

The website of SSO is quite clear about payment and which banks are approved, and it is in English.

 

 

The SSO in Chaiyaphum, would only do it through 3 of those banks that are quoted. The problem is TIT, each office is run as a fiefdom and make their own rules up...

[scorecard]

28 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

I found out the section 39 info from here, ThaiVisa, then got on to the local SSO at the time while I was still Teaching. 

 I went around the office on the same week that I finished and applied for it.

 Mine was further complicated by my home province being different from where I was working.

As far as I understand it, if you go to section 39, you don't claim your SS payments back, you continue them at the rate of 430 something bahts every month, which gives you free meds and hospitals if you've paid in for, 3 years, I think. Up to a pension if you've paid in for 15 years or so...

 

 

Seems it can be a bit different for some teachers.

 

For 'mainstream' farang employees, (if the employer has X number of employees or more (not sure what that number is, I think it's 5 but that needs checking) membership of the SSF is compulsory for all employees Thai and all nationalities, and the company is fully responsible to apply for membership for each employee. 

 

The company deducts the monthly contribution from each employees salary (around 450Baht a month) and the company must also contribute each month for each employee and the company is responsible to send all of the contributions and full details to the SSF every month.

 

At retirement members can claim a refund of the contributions and there's also an option to take a monthly pension for life.

 

Also members can elect to continue their Injuries benefits and Sickness benefits by paying the monthly contributions direct to the SSF via own bank transfer to the SSF.

 

If the member takes a refund of contributions (para just above) this does not affect their entitlement to continue Injuries and Sickness benefits and pay direct to the fund each month.

 

And the member has 6 months to decide (after taking the refund) whether they want to continue their Injuries benefits and Sickness benefits by paying the monthly contributions direct to the SSF via own bank transfer to the SSF.

 

Other knowledgeable members, please make corrections if/as needed. Thanks.

[SymS]

As a married couple, it took us about two months and three or four visits to the amphur to get the Yellow tabian baan and associated pink card.  We also had to bring the village head as a witness. But it looks like the procedure varies from region to region. Another option is to purchase a condo (not sure about the exact procedure though).

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

Seems it can be a bit different for some teachers.

 

For 'mainstream' farang employees, (if the employer has X number of employees or more (not sure what that number is, I think it's 5 but that needs checking) membership of the SSF is compulsory for all employees Thai and all nationalities, and the company is fully responsible to apply for membership for each employee. 

 

The company deducts the monthly contribution from each employees salary (around 450Baht a month) and the company must also contribute each month for each employee and the company is responsible to send all of the contributions and full details to the SSF every month.

 

At retirement members can claim a refund of the contributions and there's also an option to take a monthly pension for life.

 

Also members can elect to continue their Injuries benefits and Sickness benefits by paying the monthly contributions direct to the SSF via own bank transfer to the SSF.

 

If the member takes a refund of contributions (para just above) this does not affect their entitlement to continue Injuries and Sickness benefits and pay direct to the fund each month.

 

And the member has 6 months to decide (after taking the refund) whether they want to continue their Injuries benefits and Sickness benefits by paying the monthly contributions direct to the SSF via own bank transfer to the SSF.

 

Other knowledgeable members, please make corrections if/as needed. Thanks.

I have attached the English language PDF version of the Social Security Act B.E. 2533 (1990).

I must recognize that another member sent the file to me however I will not reveal the members name as a respect to their right to privacy.social_security_act_2533_sso_1 V2.pdf

[zyphodb]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

I have attached the English language PDF version of the Social Security Act B.E. 2533 (1990).

I must recognize that another member sent the file to me however I will not reveal the members name as a respect to their right to privacy.social_security_act_2533_sso_1 V2.pdf

I have the same copy but it wouldn't let me attach it to the post, lol 

[scorecard]

You mentioned "...This is quite irritating though, obviously. My identity is proven by my passport, visa etc., my membership to the Social Security scheme is established by my having a number, card and contribution record,..."

 

When you say 'contribution record', are you referring to the records held in the SSF databases from payments made by employers on behalf of members? 

 

Or, personal records of payments that you have maintained? 

 

Or ?

[LogicThai]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

When you say 'contribution record', are you referring to the records held in the SSF databases from payments made by employers on behalf of members? 

 

That's what I meant, yes.

[scorecard]

32 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

That's what I meant, yes.

Thanks, good information. Did you have to push this point to prove your contributions?