ZALENSKY has landed in the US

[ozimoron]

"Before they were able to reach the door, two US Capitol Police officers in suits stopped the pair, addressing Mr Gaetz by name, and informed them that they needed to go through a security screening before entering, gesturing to a nearby metal detector," the Independent writes. "The Florida congressman was heard briefly questioning the officer’s direction, before turning away."

 

In addition to this, journalist Ben Jacobs reports that Gaetz and Boebert were among the very few members of Congress who did not applaud Zelensky as he entered the chamber to deliver his address to Congress.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/matt-gaetz-lauren-boebert-2658997644/

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Once again, I’ll refer you to the history of appeasing tyrants.

Putin is strictly junior varsity. He isn't a Mao or Hitler or Stalin.  Just a local bully. And I know that the money sent to Ukraine could be better spent in our own countries helping the homeless, addicted, poor, and so on.  

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Putin is strictly junior varsity. He isn't a Mao or Hitler or Stalin.  Just a local bully. And I know that the money sent to Ukraine could be better spent in our own countries helping the homeless, addicted, poor, and so on.  

Putin is strictly junior varsity.

 

Would you like links to all the war crimes carried out so far and are ongoing as a result of his decision to invade a sovereign nation? The rapes, cold blooded murders of woman and children. Why do you think the EU parliament has designated Russia a state sponsor of terrorism?

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Putin is strictly junior varsity.

 

Would you like links to all the war crimes carried out so far and are ongoing as a result of his decision to invade a sovereign nation? The rapes, cold blooded murders of woman and children. Why do you think the EU parliament has designated Russia a state sponsor of terrorism?

I honestly don't care.  I especially don't care what the EU Parliament thinks, given their track record. If they think he is so bad, they can go ahead and declare war on Russia to stop him. 

 

It all boils down to some basic questions:

 

1. How much treasure are you willing to spend in order for Ukraine to prevail? And please don't say something like "whatever it takes" because that is obviously untrue.  There needs to be a limit. 

 

2. Are you willing to go to war with Russia if they gain the upper hand in the conflict? 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Putin is strictly junior varsity. He isn't a Mao or Hitler or Stalin.  Just a local bully. And I know that the money sent to Ukraine could be better spent in our own countries helping the homeless, addicted, poor, and so on.  

Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine, he’s not some ‘local bully’.

 

He’s a tyrant and he’s waging illegal war.

 

How did ‘isolationism’ and ‘appeasement’ work out the last time they were tried?

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

I honestly don't care.  I especially don't care what the EU Parliament thinks, given their track record. If they think he is so bad, they can go ahead and declare war on Russia to stop him. 

 

It all boils down to some basic questions:

 

1. How much treasure are you willing to spend in order for Ukraine to prevail? And please don't say something like "whatever it takes" because that is obviously untrue.  There needs to be a limit. 

 

2. Are you willing to go to war with Russia if they gain the upper hand in the conflict? 

 

 

I honestly don't care. 

 

Says it all. No morals whatsoever, continue in your own echo chamber. Polls of public support for aid to Ukraine differ from you in all donor countries. Democracy at work and helping the UN in its resolutions.

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

"Before they were able to reach the door, two US Capitol Police officers in suits stopped the pair, addressing Mr Gaetz by name, and informed them that they needed to go through a security screening before entering, gesturing to a nearby metal detector," the Independent writes. "The Florida congressman was heard briefly questioning the officer’s direction, before turning away."

 

In addition to this, journalist Ben Jacobs reports that Gaetz and Boebert were among the very few members of Congress who did not applaud Zelensky as he entered the chamber to deliver his address to Congress.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/matt-gaetz-lauren-boebert-2658997644/

Another example of Americas rightwing aligning themselves with Putin.

 

It’s in plain sight.

[Phoenix Rising]

19 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Putin is strictly junior varsity. He isn't a Mao or Hitler or Stalin.  Just a local bully. And I know that the money sent to Ukraine could be better spent in our own countries helping the homeless, addicted, poor, and so on.  

Isolationism has, like e.g. communism, been tried and tested and it's abundantly clear it's not working.

Now move along.

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine, he’s not some ‘local bully’.

 

He’s a tyrant and he’s waging illegal war.

 

How did ‘isolationism’ and ‘appeasement’ work out the last time they were tried?

Again you are making WW2 comparisons when they are not warranted.  How about answering my basic questions about your support for the war- how much is too much, and would you go to war?

[robblok]

21 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Putin is strictly junior varsity. He isn't a Mao or Hitler or Stalin.  Just a local bully. And I know that the money sent to Ukraine could be better spent in our own countries helping the homeless, addicted, poor, and so on.  

Right they appeased Hitler too and guess what happened. Guess some people never learn from history.

 

First Russia invaded and took Crimea, and now it took other lands and you expect him to stop without being defeated. 

[Phoenix Rising]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Again you are making WW2 comparisons when they are not warranted.  How about answering my basic questions about your support for the war- how much is too much, and would you go to war?

Why would we care about what you write when you "don't care" about Putin's mass murder of Ukranians? You're insignificant, not worth our time.

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I honestly don't care. 

 

Says it all. No morals whatsoever, continue in your own echo chamber. Polls of public support for aid to Ukraine differ from you in all donor countries. Democracy at work and helping the UN in its resolutions.

It is up to the Russian people to stop Putin if they want.  Not my business. Now how about you stop hiding behind the polls and take a shot at answering my questions? What is Ukraine actually worth to you?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

It is up to the Russian people to stop Putin if they want.  Not my business. Now how about you stop hiding behind the polls and take a shot at answering my questions? What is Ukraine actually worth to you?

Nah, you expect me to answer your questions when you've already outed yourself for what you really are. Disgusting remarks made by you deserve nothing but contempt and certainly no more interaction with you, makes me feel dirty.

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I honestly don't care.  I especially don't care what the EU Parliament thinks, given their track record. If they think he is so bad, they can go ahead and declare war on Russia to stop him. 

 

It all boils down to some basic questions:

 

1. How much treasure are you willing to spend in order for Ukraine to prevail? And please don't say something like "whatever it takes" because that is obviously untrue.  There needs to be a limit. 

 

2. Are you willing to go to war with Russia if they gain the upper hand in the conflict? 

 

 

3. What are the consequences of isolationism, appeasement and not providing support to Ukraine?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

It is up to the Russian people to stop Putin if they want.  Not my business. Now how about you stop hiding behind the polls and take a shot at answering my questions? What is Ukraine actually worth to you?

Ukraine’s war objectives are to return the Ukrainian border to where it was prior to Putin’s illegal invasion.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

Right they appeased Hitler too and guess what happened. Guess some people never learn from history.

 

First Russia invaded and took Crimea, and now it took other lands and you expect him to stop without being defeated. 

And… who do think is watching to see if the West will oppose illegal invasions?

 

The consequences of isolationism and appeasement have been demonstrated.

 

The West’s resolve to uphold international law is being tested, supporting Ukraine is cheap compared with the consequences of not doing so.

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

It is up to the Russian people to stop Putin if they want.  Not my business. Now how about you stop hiding behind the polls and take a shot at answering my questions? What is Ukraine actually worth to you?

Mate, personally I think you have given your opinion that tax payers like you should not be funding the war & many can respect your opinion. Don’t go beyond that with weak arguments and emotional rebuttals. 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And… who do think is watching to see if the West will oppose illegal invasions?

 

The consequences of isolationism and appeasement have been demonstrated.

 

The West’s resolve to uphold international law is being tested, supporting Ukraine is cheap compared with the consequences of not doing so.

Of course China is watching. Taiwan would be next and then war is in our little corner of the world.

 

We should stand firm and keep supporting Ukraine. Nobody likes spending money on this but its for a safer future.

 

I really don't get the people who think that Russia after a negotiated peace would stop. They already demonstrated they wont. They caught Crimea and made peace and now invaded again. If they are not really beat down they will start all over again in a few years

[jvs]

18 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Are you willing to go to war with Russia if they gain the upper hand in the conflict? 

Here you are touching on the core of the matter,very good you mentioned this.

Different answers of course,here is mine.

We will need to go to war with Putin if he gains the upper hand,if he wins he will not stop.

How do i know?Does Crimea ring a bell?

Putin has mentioned more then once he would like to revive the good old USSR.

How much should we give to the Ukraine?I still believe the Ukraine is fighting our war,sure we are paying some money but who is paying in blood?

Canada ,along with many other countries has signed certain agreements

and yes that does cost money but it also provides you with security.

Would you hope and expect other countries to help you if another country tried to invade you?

You asked;"What is the Ukraine worth to you"?

It is worth everything if you are a Ukrainian citizen,your life and your blood.

The money would be better spend on the poor and addicted in your own country?Why don't you ask Putin that same question?

Did you not have any poor and addicted before this useless war?

Are the poor and addicted in your country receive less then they did before?

Putin has started this war believing it would be easy,i don't think he would have tried if he would have known he would get his xss kicked.

The russian bear?more like whiney the pootin.

[Hanaguma]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

3. What are the consequences of isolationism, appeasement and not providing support to Ukraine?

 

 

I'll take a stab at it. The consequences are that Putin probably would be content with occupying the Russian speaking areas of the country.  He doesn't have the military capacity to threaten Europe in any serious way, let alone threaten North America.  He would not invade a NATO country because that would provoke a larger response.

 

So I say give him those areas. THEN impose sanctions on Russia that actually hurt. Total boycott of all Russian products, severing of all pipelines, cancellation of all visas and travel. Complete isolation. 

 

Now how about you return the favor?

[Hanaguma]

24 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Nah, you expect me to answer your questions when you've already outed yourself for what you really are. Disgusting remarks made by you deserve nothing but contempt and certainly no more interaction with you, makes me feel dirty.

Nice appeal to emotion without bothering to reason out your position. Enjoy your well earned outrage.

[jvs]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

So I say give him those areas.

Why ? Because they speak Russian?

I know for 100% there are areas in Canada where many people speak Russian,give it to Putin!!!

Maybe even give him a small piece of your garden and then tell him to

be happy with that.

You  are so far away from reality,but that is of course just my opinion.

Putin was not going to be happy with a part of the Ukraine,why did he try to invade the whole country?

Your point of view is distorted in many ways but you of course have the right to express them here just as i do.

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by jvs

[Hanaguma]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

Of course China is watching. Taiwan would be next and then war is in our little corner of the world.

 

We should stand firm and keep supporting Ukraine. Nobody likes spending money on this but its for a safer future.

 

I really don't get the people who think that Russia after a negotiated peace would stop. They already demonstrated they wont. They caught Crimea and made peace and now invaded again. If they are not really beat down they will start all over again in a few years

But again, the questions are: how much, and for how long?  I am wary of the west getting involved in yet another proxy war like Iraq or Afghanistan.  Certainly not worth the thousands of lives and untold billions we burned up in those two crapholes.

[Bkk Brian]

Some Putin apologists are forgetting his Peter the Great Speech

 

Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands

“Putin’s confession of land seizures and comparing himself with Peter the Great prove: there was no ‘conflict’, only the country’s bloody seizure under contrived pretexts of people’s genocide,” said Mykhailo Podolyak. “We should not talk about [Russia] ‘saving face’, but about its immediate de-imperialisation.”

Carl Bildt, a former prime minister of Sweden, called Putin’s desire to take back lands claimed by Russia a “recipe for years of wars”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/putin-compares-himself-to-peter-the-great-in-quest-to-take-back-russian-lands

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, jvs said:

Why ? Because the speak Russian?

I know for 100% there are areas in Canada where many people speak Russian,give it to Putin!!!

Maybe even give him a small piece of your garden and then tell him to

be happy with that.

You  are so far away from reality,but that is of course just my opinion.
 

Well, what do YOU think Putin's "endgame" is?  He doesn't have the miltary horsepower to do much more than he is doing now. Western Europe is not under threat, nor are any NATO countries. It has just become a matter of pride and machismo on both sides.   

 

Not to mention that Ukraine isn't any haven of democratic values either. Freedom House rates it somewhere below Brazil and Angola in its freedom index.  

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

But again, the questions are: how much, and for how long?  I am wary of the west getting involved in yet another proxy war like Iraq or Afghanistan.  Certainly not worth the thousands of lives and untold billions we burned up in those two crapholes.

AS long as it takes, maybe if we start giving some real offensive weapons like tanks. This is nothing like those proxy wars. This is a war in Europe that could go on if Russia wins. You heard Putins plans(expansion). So this war as long as it takes and if we give some good weapons instead of worrying about Russia's reaction we can end this. 

 

China is watching if we give in here money will go into Taiwan next. I think its better to prevent things now and make it clear to Russia and China that these kinds of wars wont end well and stabilize the world again.

[jvs]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Well, what do YOU think Putin's "endgame" is?  He doesn't have the miltary horsepower to do much more than he is doing now. Western Europe is not under threat, nor are any NATO countries. It has just become a matter of pride and machismo on both sides.   

 

Not to mention that Ukraine isn't any haven of democratic values either. Freedom House rates it somewhere below Brazil and Angola in its freedom index.  

ok, Putins end game is already here.Again,he never expected it to go this way and neither did any one else we all were thinking he had a very strong army but all of that got exposed.

Western Europe not under threat?Is that what you call it when Putin is mentioning the use of Nukes?

A matter of macho and pride?

Are you serious?

I truly admire the will and hardcore resistance of the Ukrainian people,

they will (and should) never surrender to the bully that has invaded them

Macho and pride for Russia?100 000 dead soldiers would totally disagree with you.

Just have a quick look at the reasons Putin used to invade the Ukraine,they keep changing.

 

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

AS long as it takes, maybe if we start giving some real offensive weapons like tanks. This is nothing like those proxy wars. This is a war in Europe that could go on if Russia wins. You heard Putins plans(expansion). So this war as long as it takes and if we give some good weapons instead of worrying about Russia's reaction we can end this. 

 

China is watching if we give in here money will go into Taiwan next. I think its better to prevent things now and make it clear to Russia and China that these kinds of wars wont end well and stabilize the world again.

See above re war in Europe. It is not possible because the Russians don't have the combat power to make it happen.  

 

How long is "as long as it takes"?  Twenty years like in Afghanistan?  

 

I think you are right that China is by far the greater threat. Putin and Russia are overblown due to the supposed connection between Russia and former president Trump.   Shallow thinking people constantly draw lines between them that do nothing other than cloud the issue. 

[Hanaguma]

5 minutes ago, jvs said:

ok, Putins end game is already here.Again,he never expected it to go this way and neither did any one else we all were thinking he had a very strong army but all of that got exposed.

Western Europe not under threat?Is that what you call it when Putin is mentioning the use of Nukes?

A matter of macho and pride?

Are you serious?

I truly admire the will and hardcore resistance of the Ukrainian people,

they will (and should) never surrender to the bully that has invaded them

Macho and pride for Russia?100 000 dead soldiers would totally disagree with you.

Just have a quick look at the reasons Putin used to invade the Ukraine,they keep changing.

 

The nuclear threat is greater if Putin is seen as decisively beaten. He will lash out to protect himself politically. Better to give him a way to claim "victory" and go home. 

 

I am not "on Putin's side". I hope Russia loses. But we also have to look at the consequences down the road. Simply hoorawing and waiting for Russia's collapse is foolish. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Putin is strictly junior varsity. He isn't a Mao or Hitler or Stalin.  Just a local bully. And I know that the money sent to Ukraine could be better spent in our own countries helping the homeless, addicted, poor, and so on.  

Silly deflection. If the money wasn't being spent in Ukraine, would it be spent on "the homeless, the addicted, poor and so on." Is that how it works?